Bringing Up Bates

[Pretzel]

Long time reader of this blog--first time post!

I personally love Chad and Erin. Looking at David and Priscilla Waller, there is just no comparison.

Their love seems genuine, unselfish, sharing, appreciative, considerate. All the things that love between two people should be.

Who cares if their bedroom is pink...

I hope Erin is able to carry a baby to full term, even though I wouldn't consider that a lifetime goal for me personally, I understand how much fulfillment and joy that it will bring someone with her faith and life aspirations. And there is nothing wrong with that. She has the support and love of a husband who adores her and is in this for the good and bad times.

As for Alyssa, I think she is a stuck up bitch who was desperate to get away from her loud, overcrowded and overbearing family. I like the Bates, but for someone like her, it seems she was relieved to move to Florida with John and sort of reinvent herself, which is why she is so keen to be close with her SILs, change up the rules for her house, no wearing pants (lol, how rebellious!) :roll: etc.

She gets to be a whole new person! :nenner:

Zach and Whitney are sweet, and I think they are genuinely happy living close to mom and dad, totally immersed in the lifestyle. Whitney of course being adopted, is seeking the feeling of belonging, which is a deep and sometimes not very conscious need, no wonder she is totally ready to be a "Bates", and be part of something bigger. Zach, who is the spitting image of his dad, I don't really think was clever/sharp enough to go off to ATI headquarters like Brandon or David Waller (not to say they are intelligent or critical thinkers by any means!) but fit more of the bill of the lanky creepy looking influential young men that lure others into this thing), and is better off working in his community and being as much like his Dad as possible. Of course! :worship:

[Feministe9000]

To the 1st bolded: Err, why? Just why? So somebody is a stuck-up bitch because they're craving quietness and individuality? That's really, really awesome then. NOT. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Second bolded: I don't see a lot of resemblance actually, and no, I don't think Zach is a grifter by nature or someone aspiring to be important in ATI. Actually, I get the vibe that his life works quite well without the ATI/IBLP crap.

[eh02]

To the 1st bolded: Err, why? Just why? So somebody is a stuck-up bitch because they're craving quietness and individuality? That's really, really awesome then. NOT. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[VelociRapture]

So I love to play Devil's Advocate - mostly because it's fun, but also because it makes me question things more. What I want to know is this:

Is it possible that the Bates family lied about Zach and Whitney kissing before marriage? If so, what purpose does it serve?

DISCUSS!

[Idolatry]

So I love to play Devil's Advocate - mostly because it's fun, but also because it makes me question things more. What I want to know is this:

Is it possible that the Bates family lied about Zach and Whitney kissing before marriage? If so, what purpose does it serve?

DISCUSS!

[nokidsmom]

Agree that Zach physically looks like his dad but he's no grifter that's for sure. Nor do I see him following Daddy's footsteps in the grifting area, if for no other reason that he has a job and has actually worked, perhaps more than his Dad ever has, and has probably helped to support the family while Dad grifts away. One benefit I see for the kids getting married, even at a young age like Alyssa, is that they get out of that family and their earnings are their own to do with what they want or need.

[nelliebelle1197]

If it's recessive, and only caused by one recessive gene, than it's likely that a quarter of the Bates daughters will have this disorder.

I hope each of them tests before marriage so that don't have to suffer so many miscarriages like Erin.

[NachosFlandersStyle]

I just think she's annoying...and stuck up! My personal opinion. But yes, I understand craving quietness and individuality. I would have gone absolutely raving mad if I had been stuck living with that family for so long. I don't blame her! But compared to the sweet and friendly Bates girls, Alyssa appears in stark contrast.

And as for Zach, I don't mean him being on the ATI board or aspiring to that occupation as such. I mean that he literally LOOKS JUST LIKE GIL, and also wants a million kids and loves his "waaaaiifff" Whitney. Very downhome country man who loves his family, just like his Dad.

Not really a criticism, because I would prefer someone like Zach over and ATI boyz: Brandon Keilan is a dork and David Waller is a fucking creep!

[Hisey]

I think the Bates kids are just happier than the Duggars. That's why they are more interesting, fun and show more personality.

I liked the three young Bates boys talking about how they play backyard football and how that is so fun. It's clear the three boys were friends. It was also clear that they had the *time* to play lots of football in the backyard.

That's something that the Duggar boys have much less of --time. They are usually on the bus, traveling to some church to play the violin. Of course the Bates boys are happier! Playing football in the backyard is much more fun than wearing a cheap suit, listening to your mother talk about contraception to an audience of admiring women, and sawing away at your violin on cue.

I think the Duggars went about their show in the wrong way. They thought people would be attracted to perfect. So there is scene after scene of kids doing things in the perfect, Gothard way. Since this is far from reality (no one is perfect!), the kids seem flat and the show is boring.

I like how the Bates have already admitted so many imperfections: Trace was driving too fast, Erin can't carry a pregnancy, Erin has mixed feelings at baby showers, Zach kissed before marriage, etc. That is what will draw viewers to their show.

I also think it doesn't hurt that the Bates children are far more attractive than the Duggar kids. Great genes in that family.

Finally, I like the way there is very little attention given to the (adorable) Bates kids under 7. It's nice they are not exploiting their cuteness. I like to think Gil and Kelly are trying to protect them, but maybe they just don't fit into the producers story line.

[Rachel333]

I haven't seen the second episode yet but in the first episode I thought Alyssa seemed a bit distant. I've had people think I was stuck-up before when really I was just shy and quiet, so I definitely won't judge her for that.

I guess the Bates kids are more attractive overall than the Duggars, but it seems like in both families the girls are far more attractive than the boys.

[doubleT]

Good grief. How sad that a man in his mid-twenties that holds a position as a county commissioner has to go to his parents and ask for forgiveness for kissing his fiancé. That puts a big dent into Kelly and Gil's theory that people cannot control themselves once they go there. Of course, Kelly gave the caveat "not all the time." :roll:

[singsingsing]

I definitely find it interesting that fundies are deplored for forcing women to always 'keep sweet', always put everyone else before themselves, always smile, always have a positive, pleasant countenance - and yet women like Jessa Duggar or Alyssa Bates or others who don't conform to this stereotype of the outgoing, bubbly, humble female are castigated as being cold or bitchy. Sure, everyone is entitled to their personal opinion but there's something more going on here.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

Alyssa is also so sick from pregnancy that she's on medication. Not everyone can be Jill levels of "on" all the time.

Not that she needs an excuse. It's refreshing to see a fundie daughter behaving like a human and not forcing herself to be upbeat and chipper if she doesn't want to. I can't believe anyone here would criticize her for that! These poor girls cannot fucking win no matter what they do!

ETA- posted at the same time as sing; she said it better.

[Feministe9000]

Is it wrong that I just find her annoying? Since they have put their lives out there for all of us, I think we are all entitled to an opinion.

And don't get me started on jill "for unto us a son is born" Duggar, she is going to end up just like her stupid mother.

[Luisainlondon1]

I haven't seen the second episode yet but in the first episode I thought Alyssa seemed a bit distant. I've had people think I was stuck-up before when really I was just shy and quiet, so I definitely won't judge her for that.

[doubleT]

The miscarriage on her blog was in March with a D&C. My D&C required three months recovery time. Maybe hers magically healed that moment. This show looks like it was shot in the summer, judging by the outside shots and the clothes, so that's a tight timeframe to have two more miscarriages Erin never mentioned.

You'd think they'd be better at reality TV by now. :wtf:

[formergothardite]

So I love to play Devil's Advocate - mostly because it's fun, but also because it makes me question things more. What I want to know is this:

Is it possible that the Bates family lied about Zach and Whitney kissing before marriage? If so, what purpose does it serve?

DISCUSS!

[SquirrelySquirrel]

Is it wrong that I just find her annoying? Since they have put their lives out there for all of us, I think we are all entitled to an opinion.

And don't get me started on jill "for unto us a son is born" Duggar, she is going to end up just like her stupid mother.

[singsingsing]

Also for some people it's just that they're awkward when they know they're being filmed, awkward around large groups (even their own friends and family), awkward when the centre of attention especially if it's a little embarrassing - or they just don't have the naturally bubbly personality of others. It doesn't mean they're rude, cold, arrogant or unpleasant people.

I absolutely believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and if you think Alyssa is cold and arrogant, fine. It's not really individual opinion that's the issue here, but a more overarching pattern.

I respect that the poster asking if they might have lied about Zach and Whitney's kissing before marriage was playing devil's advocate, but come on.

[Feministe9000]

Of course you're entitled to your opinion. I guess for me, I'd probably look like a stuck up bitch too if I had to deal with a family like that. Maybe she's embarrassed to be on tv with them, but at 19 hasn't found the backbone to say no, or she needs the money her appearance on the show nets her, so she's going through the motions.

[eh02]

Is it wrong that I just find her annoying? Since they have put their lives out there for all of us, I think we are all entitled to an opinion.

And don't get me started on jill "for unto us a son is born" Duggar, she is going to end up just like her stupid mother.

[Feministe9000]

I actually kind of see more of Michelle in Jessa these days. Maybe that would explain why they never seemed very close. Jill's a cheeseball to an almost painful extent, but it seems pretty natural to her. I think she is genuinely that way - motherly, "domestic," sensitive etc. She's one of the rare fundie girls who I think more naturally falls into the type of position expected of her. Jill seems very nurturing by nature - Michelle definitely does not. Pretty much the only thing I see in common between them is that they both love babies. The difference is that Jill actually seems to like them once they're not babies anymore.

When I think of which Duggar daughter will be the one secretly "wearing the pants" in the relationship, emotionally neglecting their children, and making robocalls... it's easier for me to see Jessa doing that than Jill, honestly. Michelle's a straight up puppetmaster. I think Jessa could easily make Ben her puppet.

I'm not sure what the "for unto us a son is born" reference is - but that's a pretty typical thing for people to say around Christmas?, and is a lot less weird to me than paragraphs of text about us miserable worm-like humans deserving to burn in hell for eternity.

[singsingsing]

So yes, I find Alyssa annoying. Stuck up because at the end of the day, even though they are annoying, loud and a bit backwoods for her new lifestyle, she acts like she's better than them now. And maybe she wishes she was. But you don't forget where you came from....you uneducated, inexperienced teenager.... :pull-hair:

[Kelsey]

I don't think Alyssa is stuck-up. It seems like she may be a little bit arrogant but she's a teenager. I've never met a teenager that wasn't a little bit arrogant. This is the first time in her life that she's had any independence and she's feeling "like a big girl." She is adjusting to not only having some independence (in a way most of us got to do at age 12 or so), to living on her own and having responsibility, and also living with someone else and being intimate for the first time. It takes awhile to get that all worked out!

As for what she does all day, they've said that they run a janitorial business at night. She cleans office buildings at night. So it's not like she never has anything to do ala Jill Duggar (besides meet her hubs for lunch).

[nelliebelle1197]

ITA about Alyssa. I really do not understand people acting like she's cold, "stuck up," or a bitch. Seriously people? FJ of all places should not be criticizing her for wanting the things we loathe fundies for denying their children. Who could blame the girl for wanting to get the hell out of that house?! And how are people hating on her for having some spunk and independence? Alyssa is almost shockingly confident for a fundie woman. I admire that in her, because I'm honestly not sure where she got it from. She seems like someone who knows what she wants.