Bill Gothard Ousted - IBLP/ATI scandal - Merge

[Evil Feminist]

Strike two.... who's next? :popcorn2:

[lilith]

Gil Bates is on the IBLP Board of Directors. He cannot ignore this. But, if it's anything like the first time when Gothard employed sycophants as Board members, this will get swept under the rug.

Again.

People need to as Kelly about it in the blog comments. I'm 90% sure she'd give some response.

[RosyDaisy]

Strike two.... who's next? :popcorn2:

The Pearls...hopefully.

[formergothardite]

It says he's just been placed on administrative leave. It doesn't mean he has been ousted for good. He could be back after they are done investigating.

ITA. Let's not forget that last time Gothard was "removed" he went on to immediately found ATI and get his position back in no time. And notice the wording that they are investigating claims that "years ago" he engaged in sexual harassment. There are stories in the comment sections of RG that he has in the last year been seeking out young teens to come work for him personally using the same techniques he used for decades. This board was handpicked by Gothard, I'm just skeptical that this will really come to anything.

[Dollypeeps]

Isn't the board made up of yes men for Gothard so he won't be gone long then sadly if they only answer to him.

Wasn't he put on leave for the same thing along with his brother in the 70's or was it the 80's

[uber frau]

I'm not trying to rain on the parade but I'm skeptical this will come to anything. He's been here and managed to skip out of it unharmed before. All that happened was that his board became even more toothless.

And I see a good deal of his followers having absolutely no problem with his alleged behaviour at all. If Tab A didn't meet Slot B, it wasn't sexual and it was nothing more than a few girls misunderstanding (or possibly deliberately misrepresenting) a harmless old man who did absolutely nothing wrong.

I've seen the mental gymnastics around this sort of thing way too often and I have very little faith that this will bring him down. Even Doug Phillips was allowed to carry on for nine months after initially being caught out, and his offense was, from a fundie perspective, was more egregious.

[formergothardite]

He was placed on administrative leave in the 80s and it lasted for 17 days. So I'm only cautiously optimistic. Also while I adamantly agree that Gothard should be brought to justice for the sexual abuse, I don't really want to see the toxic spiritual teaching perpetuated even under new leadership.

Until he is completely ousted with them admitting he sexually harassed women and teens for decades, I'm not going to get too excited. They were very careful how they worded it. What sexual harassment "years ago" are they looking into? Is it the 80's scandal? Is it the accusations in the 90's? What about the comments on RG that he has in the last couple of years still be picking young women to come work for him personally? Are they going to look into that(doesn't sound like it)? When you have people like Gil Bates on the board, I am not too confident that this is going to come to anything. They sort of had to do this and I wouldn't be shocked to find out Gothard help write that press release or that this was his idea to do this to sooth the minds of his followers. Show them that the board "looked into the situation", didn't find anything, and say it is all made up by bitter former students.

I hope I'm wrong and they actually look into it.

[Dollypeeps]

So the board was hand picked then so in light of the allegations they have had to suspend him so it blows over and then reinstate him well I think that's the theory.

[16strong]

ITA. Let's not forget that last time Gothard was "removed" he went on to immediately found ATI and get his position back in no time. And notice the wording that they are investigating claims that "years ago" he engaged in sexual harassment. There are stories in the comment sections of RG that he has in the last year been seeking out young teens to come work for him personally using the same techniques he used for decades. This board was handpicked by Gothard, I'm just skeptical that this will really come to anything.

I'm not saying this time will have a different outcome, but the situation is slightly different. ATI has some very big figures involved: Duggars and Bates. It's not like he can go on to found another organization this large and avoid people talking about what happened with ATI. This time around, there is solid, documented evidence by an outside source, a very large global community called the internet that never lets information truly die, and a bunch of famous people he will forever be connected to. Not sure how/if this will affect the outcome, but it will ensure that his disgraces can't be forgotten as easily as last time.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Yes!

Doug Phillips and Bill Gothard? In the space of a few months. Awesome.

Thank you to Recovering Grace and all of the brave women who came forward to share their stories! :)

[formergothardite]

It is different this time, but the evidence that we all see as damning people like Alfred and other supporters don't see in the same light. The board is made up of these sorts of people. At this point he is so old that obviously he isn't going to be starting any new "ministry", but I'm not that confident that this will come to much. I think that most likely they will look into the allegations that he groped the 16 year old. He is clearly going to deny all of it, and so it will be her word against his. I don't think that they will believe her. All the other stories they can explain away as him being so innocent that he doesn't realize that what he is doing is inappropriate(Alfred has already said this). They will tell him to not be alone with young women, he will claim to obey, and things will go on as they were till he dies. The true believers won't lose faith but any new believer might pause if they do a google search.

[Sparkle]

I waited to read the full thread before posting, but:

1) those experienced lawyers BG would surround himself with would not exist with the "education" he pushes on his followers. Even the Westboro wackos do better in that department.

2) Does anyone else wonder if being on the BoD hastened Gil to marry off his older daughters?

3) I remember the Jana pics mentioned a few pages ago :| The praying one was quite creeptastic.

[Sparkle]

Why do you think thats going to happen? I trained all his followers in the way of his godliness and they will keep following the same horrible path like ants finding food.

Also would involve internets and ATI would probably shame anyone using that devil's tool now...

[Trynn]

I'm still laughing at "board chairman Billy Boring". :lol:

Where I come from, people have some unfortunate last names (I remember teachers with the last names Doody, Fardy and Butt), but Billy Boring sounds like a fictional character from a really lame educational cartoon.

At work, we check I'd if you pay with a credit card. I have seen names "bottom," "Picard" and "Cullen's"

[August]

ITA. Let's not forget that last time Gothard was "removed" he went on to immediately found ATI and get his position back in no time. And notice the wording that they are investigating claims that "years ago" he engaged in sexual harassment. There are stories in the comment sections of RG that he has in the last year been seeking out young teens to come work for him personally using the same techniques he used for decades. This board was handpicked by Gothard, I'm just skeptical that this will really come to anything.

On the religion news site they have a quote from RG saying anyone with a case within the statue of limitations has been referred to police. It's extremely unlikely he had this pattern of behaviour for so long and then just stopped of his own accord.

http://www.religionnews.com/2014/02/28/ ... legations/

[apple1]

He was placed on administrative leave in the 80s and it lasted for 17 days. So I'm only cautiously optimistic.

THAT.

Same think happened in 1980. He came back to continue for another (so far) 34 years, with the objecting board members removed. I suspect that the board members are all yes men. And IBLP "IS" Gothard, so...

We will see. But maybe it is a first step.

[FrancineFishpaw]

I'm still laughing at "board chairman Billy Boring". :lol:

Where I come from, people have some unfortunate last names (I remember teachers with the last names Doody, Fardy and Butt), but Billy Boring sounds like a fictional character from a really lame educational cartoon.

That made me stop reading too! Sounds like a character in one of those old shorts about how to sit at the table properly or talk to adults properly. "Don't be a Billy Boring!"

[Dark Matters]

Isn't the board made up of yes men for Gothard so he won't be gone long then sadly if they only answer to him.

Yep, all yes men - board members and their relation to Big Bill right here:

heresyintheheartland.blogspot.com/2014/02/who-is-institute-in-basic-life.html

[Palimpsest]

The Christian Post needs to change it's headline. Bill Gothard is the polar opposite from a Family Planning advocate.

It is different this time, but the evidence that we all see as damning people like Alfred and other supporters don't see in the same light. The board is made up of these sorts of people. At this point he is so old that obviously he isn't going to be starting any new "ministry", but I'm not that confident that this will come to much. I think that most likely they will look into the allegations that he groped the 16 year old. He is clearly going to deny all of it, and so it will be her word against his. I don't think that they will believe her. All the other stories they can explain away as him being so innocent that he doesn't realize that what he is doing is inappropriate(Alfred has already said this). They will tell him to not be alone with young women, he will claim to obey, and things will go on as they were till he dies. The true believers won't lose faith but any new believer might pause if they do a google search.

I tend to agree. Not only that, but I very much doubt the board will spend any time with the actual victims and will just dismiss the allegations. Nor would I recommend for mental health reasons that any of the victims who have come forward give the IBLP investigating team the time of day. They are a bunch of hand-picked Gothard yes-men but they will be thugs toward the victims in an internal investigation.

What is different here from the 80s investigation outcome is Gothard's age. He looks fairly decrepit for 79 to me and certainly can't start over. The fact that he has been put on admin. leave rather than the board just ignoring the allegations gives me hope. At the very least, this puts a massive blot on his copy book at the end of his career.

Usually a personality-driven cult like IBLP falls apart when the leader kicks the bucket or is forcibly removed. That changes when there is some ambitious younger person planning a takeover in the background Think Miscavige in Scientology ousting L.Ron!

With all the money involved in IBLP, and although Gothard is too much of a narcissistic sociopath to do it, I'd think that the board and people at the top of the hierarchy may have already been looking for or grooming a new spiritual leader/figurehead. IMO, that person is not Gil Bates. He does not have charisma or demonstrate leadership qualities.

Question for those with current contacts within ILBP/ATI -- does anyone ambitious in the upper echelons come to mind? Have people at any time discussed who would take over if BG were incapacitated?

Edit. Grammar.

[Justme]

In the 1980's, we didn't have the internet. It was much easier to bury a scandals. It is going to be very hard for Gil and his buddies to burry this.

I wonder how the newlyweds feel now about the birthday cake ...

[Cleopatra7]

I woke up feeling depressed because of a recent personal setback, came to FJ, and found out that Gothard has been ousted. Praise the Flyinng Spaghetti Monster! Anyway, I'm sure the hardcore ATI families will keep doing what they've been doing regardless of what happens to Gothard. It seems to me that things like sexual harassment and sexual abuse don't exist in the minds of Fundies, and if it does happen it was probably because of how the victim was dressed. They don't consider that "modest dress" is a turn-on for some perverts like Gothard. Hopefully, this scandal will prevent new families from joining ATI, although it seems like this group has been limping along for some time.

[Ellimenopy]

This is fantastic news! Like Justme, I wonder what Erin and Chad will think about having honored this man at their wedding.

I don't think this will be a repeat of the 80's. There are too many public figures that have connections to him now. The Duggars will get asked about this, and the Bates, but also John Webster, Mike Huckabee, maybe even Sarah Palin and George W. Bush. He may "survive" as in not-go-to-jail, but everyone will be forced to distance themselves from him and his influential schmoozing will be over, I think.

[javafriend]

I was thinking again about how much Jana seems to match up with Gothard's "type". So jump on the Idle Speculation Bus with me for a minute:

I am pretty sure that I read somewhere that during Journey to the Heart, each girl has a private meeting with BG to confess her "sins". I know there was an audio tape of some of the Duggar girls talking about their Journey to the Heart experience and now I am trying hard to remember what Jana said her "sin" was. Was is something about submitting to authority? She has been to several Journey's so that means several private audiences with BG. Maybe her sometimes defeated demeanor comes from having to "submit" to BG's harassment. It's not like she could tell her parents and they'd believe her.

[tropaka]

I too am skeptical about how this will plan out. My guess is that he might "retire" and avoid answering to any of this. I would love for his followers, especially the Duggars and Bateses, to figure out that their teenaged daughters are not dressing biblically but in a prescribed manner tailored to Gothard's sexual preferences (long curly hair etc and so on)

[Elenor]

What will happen? My predictions: Bill will "retire" and move to Northwoods (where he will try to remain a certain influence). The board will utter a general apology for "defrauding" by Bill G. and a promise to make changes that things like that will not happen again. Around 30 to 40% of ATI families will leave, the others will remain faithful. The Duggars will remain silent and wait until the waves have cleared. Josh might distance himself from ATI to keep his reputation. David Waller will become one of the new leaders....