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Bill Gothard Ousted - IBLP/ATI scandal - Merge


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Which curriculum is it?

I don't remember the name of it or if they still offer it but at one point we got a preschool curriculum with our ATI Wisdom Booklet. My mom hated it and refused to use it because it was so bad.

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Am I remembering right that the wife of the older Niednagel - Jeremy is his name - is the daughter of a disgraced ATI'er? Not that it would make a hill of beans of difference.

It's going to take a couple of these women to go to the media agreeing to be interviewed to get any media on-board. But when one does, many should follow. We can only hope, and encourage those who are in a position to speak out about their history with icky little Bill.

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recoveringgrace.org/2014/02/questions-from-the-mailbag/#more

Precisely. I agree with the reasoning above as to why the people behind RG want to remain anonymous.

Which is exactly why I asked the poster for sources to prove that Pa Keller's son in law and the brother in law of Josh Duggar, David Waller and John Shrader is one of the founders of RG. Otherwise, it's just a rumor.

Unless this has been publically acknowledged by the person himself, I intend to apply salt.

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Precisely. I agree with the reasoning above as to why the people behind RG want to remain anonymous.

Which is exactly why I asked the poster for sources to prove that Pa Keller's son in law and the brother in law of Josh Duggar, David Waller and John Shrader is one of the founders of RG. Otherwise, it's just a rumor.

Unless this has been publically acknowledged by the person himself, I intend to apply salt.

Agreed. :|

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Over at Spiritual Sounding Board, Julie Anne is firing back with both barrels at "Womb Tomb" Swanson, who has decided to name and shame SSB and Patheos as pushing feminist, atheist, and evolutionary agendas for calling out the righteous Bill Gothard. WT does love to do the creepy via podcast. Apparently making accusations public could bring down a good ministry, donchaknow.

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Am I remembering right that the wife of the older Niednagel - Jeremy is his name - is the daughter of a disgraced ATI'er? Not that it would make a hill of beans of difference.

Yes, Jeremy's wife Danielle is the daughter of Jim Voeller.

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I don't remember the name of it or if they still offer it but at one point we got a preschool curriculum with our ATI Wisdom Booklet. My mom hated it and refused to use it because it was so bad.

Christ-Centered Curriculum (christcentercurriculum.com). The author, Doreen Claggett, believed all children should learn to read at age four. My mother was a teacher and disliked the curriculum.

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Precisely. I agree with the reasoning above as to why the people behind RG want to remain anonymous.

Which is exactly why I asked the poster for sources to prove that Pa Keller's son in law and the brother in law of Josh Duggar, David Waller and John Shrader is one of the founders of RG. Otherwise, it's just a rumor.

Unless this has been publically acknowledged by the person himself, I intend to apply salt.

Wow, that's the first I've heard that. You're saying Daniel Keller is behind RG? Do you have any evidence of this?

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Wow, that's the first I've heard that. You're saying Daniel Keller is behind RG? Do you have any evidence of this?

No, the unsubstantiated rumour is that Josh McDonald, Rebekah Keller's husband, is one of the founders. Josh and Rebecca reject ATI and Gothard but are still conservative Christians. I'm pretty sure Daniel and Candice Keller are more mainstream.

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Rebekah's husband does have a website which is anti ATI, cant remember what it was called and cant do much searching because im on my phone, but I dont think it was Recovering Grace.

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I am the poster who originally stated that Josh McDonald was an RG founder. My apologies, as I should have preceded that statement with, "if my memory serves correctly." The above site mentioned by Abigail, iblpdetox.com is Josh's site and is where I got the idea that he was affiliated with RG. I discovered both RG and IBLP Detox at the same time several years ago, and so my memory must have lumped the two of them together. Didn't realize I was opening such a can of worms! Again, my apologies for not stating that accurately.

IBLP Detox IS an interesting read as far as Josh's journey to get himself and his family away from Gothardism. In his last post on his site, he recommends RG as a resource for those wanting more information. I wonder if he is following the current "scandal" that is coming to light and his thoughts on it. I would imagine it still holds true that since he is aware of the damaging core beliefs of IBLP/ATI, he'd want to make his family aware of all these new allegations being published. I'd want to warn my family, but then again, he may feel that they will turn a deaf ear. I'd guess that to be the case, unfortunately.

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Yes, there are "tweets" at the side of Josh M's site. They do indicate his reaction to the further evidence against BG, and he says "it sickens me more and more". His story is very insightful and a lot of it make me sad. I'm sure he's had, or they've had, times with Josh and Anna and David and Priscilla and John and Esther where this has been discussed. They may have had moments where they agree to disagree. And now there may be more, but he sure won't publish it. So we'll see what happens next. I'm also sure the TLC camera folks HAVE tried to interview BG. It's also a matter of whether they're willing to release footage of, well "refusals" or "excuses" like "oh he'd love to, but he's too busy/too tired/visiting that other TC"......

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I wonder whether it ever worries Josh about how people who he is close to are so likely to have been victims of Gothard's evil, sick perversion, like some of the Duggar girls (not sure whether he would do that because of their fame, but Jana seems like the kind of person some kind of sick psychopath would see as an easy victim), or Priscilla (she is pretty, blonde, sweet and doesn't seem very bright :( I hope he wouldn't take advantage of someone like her, but I bet he would)

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I am the poster who originally stated that Josh McDonald was an RG founder. My apologies, as I should have preceded that statement with, "if my memory serves correctly." The above site mentioned by Abigail, iblpdetox.com is Josh's site and is where I got the idea that he was affiliated with RG. I discovered both RG and IBLP Detox at the same time several years ago, and so my memory must have lumped the two of them together. Didn't realize I was opening such a can of worms! Again, my apologies for not stating that accurately.

IBLP Detox IS an interesting read as far as Josh's journey to get himself and his family away from Gothardism. In his last post on his site, he recommends RG as a resource for those wanting more information. I wonder if he is following the current "scandal" that is coming to light and his thoughts on it. I would imagine it still holds true that since he is aware of the damaging core beliefs of IBLP/ATI, he'd want to make his family aware of all these new allegations being published. I'd want to warn my family, but then again, he may feel that they will turn a deaf ear. I'd guess that to be the case, unfortunately.

Thanks for the clarification. No need to apologise and not a big can of worms at all. I'm just extra-picky having survived "Ruth."

It's more that:

1. It would have been very exciting if one of the RG founders went public. RG has been clear that they want to stay anonymous and I can understand why. Gothard is a very nasty bit of work with a helluva lot of money and power behind him. He could - and almost certainly would - make life very uncomfortable for the families of RG founders who are still in the cult.

2. Sometimes vague memories morph into fact and get extended into la-la land too easily. As you can see above when someone else thought we were talking about Daniel Keller not Josh MacDonald until that was clarified!

I find Josh McD very interesting. He is probably still way too conservative "Christian" for me to like him, but he has guts and takes risks. I think I had read his website before, it seems familiar, and agree that it is good. And thoughtful.

His tweets do say that he is deeply concerned on the latest revelations on RG and is following them. He is also one of the "good guys" in that he and Rebekah supported Susanna Keller.

He may or may not be one of the Founders of RG. Anyone's guess!

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I wouldn't be at all surprised if Josh M is involved with RG, but here's hoping that Gothard never finds out who runs that site. As stated, that bastard would most definitely make life hell for any people connected to RG.

I just commented on the latest post over there about the actual (non) meaning of the word "defrauded." It seems that so many of the girls harmed are wanting an admission of full guilt, an apology, or some sort of restitution from Gothard. Honestly, I don't believe that is EVER going to happen. I feel it can really be stated as fact that it will never happen, given all the evidence of how he's lived these last 80 years. The man is a predator, a narcissist, and almost certainly a sociopath. These types do not feel real, genuine emotion, and certainly not selflessness or remorse. Their actions are entirely about benefitting them. Even any perceived kindness on their part is done out of a desire to make themselves look good, to maintain any trust which others may have in them. The best that can be hoped for out of this whole, sick mess is that ATI/IBLP will be shut down, and as many followers of Gothard as possible will be made of aware of what a crock of shit they have believed in from a man who is a sick, mentally ill pervert.

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1. It would have been very exciting if one of the RG founders went public. RG has been clear that they want to stay anonymous and I can understand why. Gothard is a very nasty bit of work with a helluva lot of money and power behind him. He could - and almost certainly would - make life very uncomfortable for the families of RG founders who are still in the cult.

2. Sometimes vague memories morph into fact and get extended into la-la land too easily. As you can see above when someone else thought we were talking about Daniel Keller not Josh MacDonald until that was clarified!

I find Josh McD very interesting. He is probably still way too conservative "Christian" for me to like him, but he has guts and takes risks. I think I had read his website before, it seems familiar, and agree that it is good. And thoughtful.

His tweets do say that he is deeply concerned on the latest revelations on RG and is following them. He is also one of the "good guys" in that he and Rebekah supported Susanna Keller.

He may or may not be one of the Founders of RG. Anyone's guess!

Do they (RG founders) use pseudonyms? Just wondering how they post stuff. Or... hmmm... seems like I've seen posts from "moderator"

I've heard the Bells are out of ATI and support RG. As in Mike Bell from Excel. But I couldn't get anything out from his wife once when I talked to her, except something like that there wasn't 'a need or interest for the Excel program anymore'. She said they do work sometimes for excel overseas....

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Do they (RG founders) use pseudonyms? Just wondering how they post stuff. Or... hmmm... seems like I've seen posts from "moderator"

I've heard the Bells are out of ATI and support RG. As in Mike Bell from Excel. But I couldn't get anything out from his wife once when I talked to her, except something like that there wasn't 'a need or interest for the Excel program anymore'. She said they do work sometimes for excel overseas....

I saw Lauren Bell commented on a RG article in support of it. It has to be hard for people like the Bells who gave up the normal like, moved into a training center and worked for Gothard to come to grips with the idea that they did all this for a sexual predator.

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It's hard for me to read over there (RG) since "Jim" started spouting his nouthetic counseling bullshit--which ironically is very similar to Gothard's teachings--but I'm glad at least some of the posters are calling him out on it. "Jim" is painting himself as opposed to Gothard yet he is espousing many of the same underlying beliefs. Whoever said upthread that RG is still very conservative was right. A few folks have been brave enough to denounce the entire fundamentalist mindset, and have more often than not been condemned; many over there are still just one or two steps removed from fundiestan. It's depressing and appalling at the same time, and makes me so glad I escaped from it.

And poor Alfred...still completely deluded and clinging to his idolatry more desperately than ever. I just hope his kids can get away some day.

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I was just coming here to post that! YES!!!!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

eta: Gil Bates is on the Board. Let's see if he has the balls to recommend that the pedophilic false prophet be permanently removed.

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