Duggars, Duggars Everywhere - general discussion Part 4

[PennySycamore]

DuggarTime, do you ever say one blessed thing that doesn't sound like a troll?

[ILoveJellybeans]

Another thing that creeps me out is the "Duggar Family Bank" where any money goes to Mom and is recorded in a notebook and when anyone wants to buy things they have to get the money from J'chelle. I guess that ensures that they don't buy or do anything verboten...though J'chelle said it was because it was so gosh darned inconvenient to have all that loose change in the house. Mmmmmmhmmmmm.

I can understand that with birthday money and stuff for the little kids, but knowing them, theyre still making their adult kids hand in the money they earn from work or the book the 4 oldest girls wrote.

[Duggarlicious]

I can't help but think that the show is good for the kids. They have the supervision of the cameramen now so they can't be abused (if that was every the case, we can only speculate) can be babysat for free when they are around. They get to travel outside of middle-of-nowhere Arkansas to places other than ATI conventions in order to spread their faith. They get to see other cultures/lifestyles and minister to them and reject their food and play Ugly American..

Fixed that for you.

[RosyDaisy]

Umm...have these people ever heard of play pens?

[Emkay]

I haven't watched the Duggars in ages, but I'm hoping that with these trips they go on, one of these days it will click for ONE of these kids that no matter how ugly they act towards the people they interact with, most likely, most of the people they come in contact with (at least those mainstream folks who 'host' them) are still kind and welcoming to them. Maybe then they will see that the outside world isn't as awful as they've been told to believe.

[Duggarlicious]

Umm...have these people ever heard of play pens?

Yes, they have, except they use them as beds.

[Alachantal]

Yes, they have, except they use them as beds.

With multiple kids per "bed"

[Toothfairy]

I can't help but think that the show is good for the kids. They have the supervision of the cameramen now so they can't be abused (if that was every the case, we can only speculate) when they are around. They get to travel outside of middle-of-nowhere Arkansas to places other than ATI conventions. They get to see other cultures/lifestyles.

They already been abused from the day they were born.

[FJismyheadship]

DuggarTime

As stated earlier, they were in the process of building the house when the specials began.

I think a fine example of those kids being exploited is Jessa's courtship. It was mentioned she didn't want her relationship to be on camera. I think that was either the Fox interview or the GMA one. Jessa didn't have a choice. Her parents are supposed to know her heart and do what is best. They don't care about Jessa. They care about the ratings for their damn TV show. They care about the money that's gonna come in because a daughter is finally courting. They are using Jess a.

I bet that's why Ben stopped posting stuff all over Facebook. I bet Jessa asked him not to. If that's the case, good for him. Its bad enough their relationship has to be filmed against Jessa's wishes.

[Earthshine]

With multiple kids per "bed"

and primarily in the girls' room. :roll:

[Toothfairy]

Another thing that creeps me out is the "Duggar Family Bank" where any money goes to Mom and is recorded in a notebook and when anyone wants to buy things they have to get the money from J'chelle. I guess that ensures that they don't buy or do anything verboten...though J'chelle said it was because it was so gosh darned inconvenient to have all that loose change in the house. Mmmmmmhmmmmm.

Some of these kids are grown adults( I use the word adult loosely) What child wants to give their own hard earn cash to their parents to monitor? The name should be changed to Jim Bob and Michelle's We Can't Trust Our Kids Bank

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think the show is both good and bad for the kids:

Its good because they have a guaranteed good standard of living and aren't living in a tiny house, 10 kids crammed into a bedroom on shelving and trying to stretch a small amount of food to a huge amount of growing kids. They are getting the chance to travel the world and go on loads of trips, which is expanding their worldview and putting them at an advantage over other ATI kids who only ever get to go to ATI conventions and other fundie events. They are in contact with non fundies through the camera crew and fans, and even though their parents are encouraging them to judge the other cultures, theyre at least getting exposed to it. Also with the camera crew, there is less of a chance for the parents to beat the shit out of the kids, compared to other fundies who don't have many people see them who aren't also beating their kids-the Duggars aren't as likely to be abusing their kids on the level others are because they have to worry more about a kid talking about it on camera, or one of the camera crew noticing bruises and cant hit the kids on camera.

Its also bad for them because there is no privacy. All of the embarrassing childhood moments are broadcast for the world to see, from little Josie having an accident on camera, their illnesses (including them throwing up), doctor and dentist visits, their first relationships and awkward first kisses, the kid on the last video who was picking her nose, their births, a bigger audience for the embarrassing parent stuff no kid wants to see like parents talking about sex. The constant being dragged around on trips, taken on tours and speaking at events and going on TV shows means there is no consistency for the kids. They don't get a regular routine, and this is bound to affect their homeschooling, they have to spend their time sitting there while their parents are being interviewed instead of being at home playing with their toys, living in a cramped bus, and most kids would rather just be sleeping in their own bed, playing with all their toys and having fun at home. They clearly look bored during the interviews. They also are treated as props instead of children, having attention from fans, being expected to play violin for people, stand around during interviews, do protests for issues they are too little to have an opinion of, and generally just be seen as Michelle and Jimbob's 19 kids who have to stand in line and perform for others and meet all these strangers who know and love them and want to meet them, but the kids likely don't care about. They have all these people talking about them, analysing their every move, talking about their most personal moments, and they didn't ask for this, theyre just dragged into it by their parents.

I feel bad for Jessa, having all her most awkward relationship moments being shown to everyone. Shes never seemed very into being paraded around like some kind of circus animal, and I think she is the kind of person who would really hate having all these emotional, romantic things that should be between her and Ben being so public. She doesn't want this, she wants privacy but isn't allowed it. She doesn't have the option to tell everyone to back off. Its already bad enough that her first kiss will be in such a public place, and every date she has will have other people around, but her first kiss and everything about her relationship will be shown on TV. Thousands of people are talking about her relationship, and her parents are telling everyone and she isn't even quoted in it. She is going to have to suffer through her idiot father telling the whole world about her losing her virginity. If she has a kid, she will have to give birth on camera, and expose that very vulnerable moment to the world whether she wants to or not. It seems like her parents don't care at all about her feelings, shes just something that will bring ratings to the show.

[Toothfairy]

DuggarTime

As stated earlier, they were in the process of building the house when the specials began.

I think a fine example of those kids being exploited is Jessa's courtship. It was mentioned she didn't want her relationship to be on camera. I think that was either the Fox interview or the GMA one. Jessa didn't have a choice. Her parents are supposed to know her heart and do what is best. They don't care about Jessa. They care about the ratings for their damn TV show. They care about the money that's gonna come in because a daughter is finally courting. They are using Jess a.

I bet that's why Ben stopped posting stuff all over Facebook. I bet Jessa asked him not to. If that's the case, good for him. Its bad enough their relationship has to be filmed against Jessa's wishes.

But can't Jessa choose not to be filmed? She's 21 and legally an adult

[Earthshine]

But can't Jessa choose not to be filmed? She's 21 and legally an adult

She was raised in a culture that says you are not an adult until you get married and that your father is your headship. It probably would never seriously occur to her that she could refuse.

[Miggy]

Jessa may be 21 but she is still living as a child. Even if she doesn't want to be filmed, Jim Bob has told her she has to be and she has been trained that he knows best and that she is to trust him in all things. She has also been taught going against his wishes is the most dangerous thing ever. Why would she say no?

As a comparison, at 21 I was married and had my first child but still would have done what my Dad asked. I love him and trust him, why wouldn't I say yes? At 38 I still do what Dad asks. The only differences are that my Dad asks where Jim Bob decides and that I have had a chance to compare my Dad to other men and make my own decision about his worthiness (not perfect but a good man and awesome father) rather than Jessa being brainwashed to believe JB is perfect.

*Crosspost with Earthshine. We all seem to see this the same way.

[Mama Mia]

I think reality shows that feature children are by their very nature harmful.

But I think the Duggars are one of the few family's where the net benefit cancels out the negatives of being on a reality show. In the early specials it was disturbing how robotic the children were. Now the younger ones do get out of control at times, but I think that shows they aren't being beaten for making noise. They seem much happier and open than in the early shows.

Other reality shows that feature children I don't see how their is much benefit for the child, except the money of course.

[PurpleSheepleEater]

She was raised in a culture that says you are not an adult until you get married and that your father is your headship. It probably would never seriously occur to her that she could refuse.

And now her father has picked a boy for her who I think it is safe to assume will be bowing to all of Jim Bob's wishes, meaning that Jessa will have to maintain the life she's had. She has no choice. None. I'm willing to bet a pretty penny that all those millions that are saved are hung over the kids heads as what will be their reward for obedience. It's sad. They are being forced to sell their souls. If that's not a cult I don't know what is. So insular. So sad.

[nellautumngirl]

I still have hope for some of these fundie children. If they wanted out they could leave anytime they want. It's like a wife trying to leave her abusive husband. The parents install fear and expect their fundie children to stay at home doing nothing. Of course they were brainwashed into this fundie lifestyle. It's the only life they know, but soon some of them might get sick and tired of waiting for daddy to marry them off, hook u up with a job, and be expected to have lots of kids. It take courage to leave and they might be risking everything if they do leave, but there are tons of resources available that can help them.

Some of the children, hopefully yes. Anna, no way. She obviously loves her children, wants a large family and seems comfortable in her role as a housewife and mother. She doesn't care that Josh isn't exactly a gentleman, and if she cared she would never voice it because she believes it's her job to keep him happy. Also, not to sound mean, but she doesn't come across as overly bright or curious (except when she's next to Priscilla..).

[Earthshine]

In some ways, I think the show makes it more difficult for one of the kids to leave the family and beliefs behind. There has to be immense pressure to keep up appearances as a wonderful Christian family. The Kellers had three break away; maybe not having their lives filmed 24/7 made it easier.

[formergothardite]

I can't help but think that the show is good for the kids. They have the supervision of the cameramen now so they can't be abused (if that was every the case, we can only speculate) when they are around. They get to travel outside of middle-of-nowhere Arkansas to places other than ATI conventions. They get to see other cultures/lifestyles.

I've asked before and didn't get an answer, but how much do you actually know about ATI/IBLP/Quiverfull? Even if they didn't physically abuse them the strict ATI lifestyle that they live is spiritually and emotionally abusive.

I'm probably in the minority here but I think that being on reality tv is probably keeping the adult kids in the lifestyle longer than if they had not been on tv. Think about Josh. Where would he be without TLC? He wouldn't have the job he has now, JB might not have been able to afford to buy him a car lot. So he would have had to try and find a real job. With that real job he not only would work with non-cult/fundie people on a daily basis but he would most likely have realized that his parents held him back by discouraging college. So like many, many former ATI students he would have most likely started at a community college all while trying to raise a family. By this point most former ATI students start to renounce the Institute and realize it fucked their life up. But Josh has the fame of reality tv to get him a job and a cushion of money so he actually doesn't have to deal with the realities of what ATI does to most people.

Same with the adult daughters. I don't have any doubts that being on reality TV has greatly lowered the amount of ATI guys who would want to marry them and I doubt JB would approve any non-fundie, non-ATI man coming to court. Plus keeping that many non-working adults in the house without TLC money would have been hard so JB probably would have encouraged marriage more than he seems to be doing now. Even if they want to leave right now doing so would be a huge deal. Can you imagine what would happen if one of them decided to move out, go to college and wear jeans? It is hard enough for regular ATI students to go against their parents wishes, the Duggars would have to do it while having it plastered in the tabloids.

They also know that as long as they stay in the cult and keep the money rolling in for Michelle and Jim Bob and do nothing to rock the "look a the shiny happy family!" boat they will get to travel and see things. Without TLC they wouldn't have that incentive. And I'm not sure that they will ever get a dime out of JB for having their lives sold to entertain people, especially if they cross him.

[formergothardite]

In some ways, I think the show makes it more difficult for one of the kids to leave the family and beliefs behind. There has to be immense pressure to keep up appearances as a wonderful Christian family. The Kellers had three break away; maybe not having their lives filmed 24/7 made it easier.

I cross posted with you but this is how I feel. I feel like the show has helped keep them in longer.

[coexist]

[link=][/link]

I don't understand why anyone follows blanket training. Babies are curious they are going to explore the world around them. It also disrupts the bond between a parent and child due to fear.If you want them to stay in one place get a playpen or a gate

It's not about getting them to stay in one place. It's about training them to yield to authority.

[Earthshine]

I cross posted with you but this is how I feel. I feel like the show has helped keep them in longer.

I really liked your post. You probably have a much better handle on this issue than I do. I've cross posted twice today; it seems some of us are on a similar wavelength about this.

[patsymae]

I really liked your post. You probably have a much better handle on this issue than I do. I've cross posted twice today; it seems some of us are on a similar wavelength about this.

Judging just from the show, I wonder if that's the case with Jana. She to me has seemed the one who actually was more open to life--wanting to go on the "mission" (and having to have brother accompany her), and when they go on the trips she is the one who seems more open to the other cultures--she talks about how delicious the strange foods were, for example, while her brothers and sisters are screaming "EW!" With the birth things she never says that's she's excited about what happened or her role in it--just dutifully going along.Maybe if she wasn't the poster child for "oldest daughter Duggar," she'd have found her way.

[DuggarTime]

Formergothardite, what type of measurement are you looking for as far as my knowledge of the ATI lifestyle? I was homeschooled using the curriculum and went to a JTTH retreat with a few other homeschooled girls in my area.