Xgay Greg & Dede's Neverending Miracle Pregnancy - pt 2

[Curious]

The double standard to me is that (apparently), medical professionals talk about their patients in horribly unprofessional ways and get away with it, but as a teacher, if I EVER talked about my students like this, I'd be fired (and rightly so.) Not only my students, but ANY student. Teachers don't call children idiots or the "r" word. I've literally never heard it happen in my whole career. Why do medical professionals think it's ok?

I hope it makes everyone feel better that I can assure you, as a teacher, that I've never said (or heard anyone say) something horrible about a student. Maybe that will make up a little bit for how yucky I feel knowing that (apparently) my doctors and nurses say horrible things about me when my back is turned.

I *suspect* that double standard exists because most people feel kids are off limits, just as a general rule. So thinking about teachers saying bad things about kids is particularly horrible. I worked in the special ed classroom from 6th grade through 12th grade during my study hall and free periods because I wanted to be a special ed teacher (and then I realized that while I loved it, it was not something I would handle well as a long term profession for a couple reasons). I can't imagine any of the teachers I worked with ever saying or even thinking anything bad about any of the kids. Special ed teachers, IME, are a certain type of person..they almost feel a calling like a priest or nun would.

I sometimes think about whether drs are talking about me (I see a lot of drs. unfortuantely) and in some cases I am sure they are because I have had some pretty strange things happen (in fact, once at a teaching hospital, a dr. ran and got a whole class of people to come watch/feel a tendon in my hip pop), but over all, I figure they have seen worse so meh, whatever.

The point I was making is that HERE there is a double standard based on post count, which is stupid.

[Extricated]

Is it too much to hope that the eleventy elephant horse lung baby comes out driving an rv? I don't think it would be any more far fetched than the rest of the miracle.

[Ex 2x2]

My sister who is a teacher of, not polite to mention her age loooooonnnnggg time quite regularly is very un-pc to me her sister on a regular basis about the frustrations of both her students, her profession and her colleagues. I'll be sure to tell her what a shit human being she is for you know, being a human being and getting a bit of stress out about it at times.

No you don't make me feel better. You make me feel like I don't want some one dimensional judgemental person teaching my child quite frankly. I would like my child to know that everybody makes mistakes sometimes and trying to be perfect all the time while laudable is not a yardstick to how good you are as a person. Oh and telling everybody else how shit they are. I really don't want her taught that. Apart from that thanks for your profession.

It makes me one dimensional and judgemental b/c I don't call children idiots and retards and because I think any educator who does should be fired? If so, then hey, I own it. Venting, sharing frustrations, sure. Calling people names and having abbreveations that you throw around in a professional setting, as was mentioned above? I have never seen it happen in my profession.

I'm not saying teachers are perfect. All you have to do is watch the news to see otherwise. But I think there must be some kind of different expectation. Apparently, for medical professionals this is OK or else they wouldn't do it.

Absolutely everyone makes mistakes. My students know that and they know it's OK. But they deserve to learn from people who consider them too valuable to call them names. A teacher can vent about how tired they are, how exhausting the job is (it is!), etc, without calling people names and coming up with abbreviations for them.

eta: Since I don't know what it means to "tell people how shit they are," I'm pretty sure I didn't do that here.

[Wolfie]

We love the ID channel. My guy calls it the killer channel.

I wish I had it all the time. With Dish, I get random networks for a month and then my random channels change, I wait for certain ones to come back because I'm too cheap to pay for a more inclusive package.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Is it too much to hope that the eleventy elephant horse lung baby comes out driving an rv? I don't think it would be any more far fetched than the rest of the miracle.

By the time this baby comes, it will be old enough to drive, so probably.

[Ex 2x2]

I *suspect* that double standard exists because most people feel kids are off limits, just as a general rule. So thinking about teachers saying bad things about kids is particularly horrible. I worked in the special ed classroom from 6th grade through 12th grade during my study hall and free periods because I wanted to be a special ed teacher (and then I realized that while I loved it, it was not something I would handle well as a long term profession for a couple reasons). I can't imagine any of the teachers I worked with ever saying or even thinking anything bad about any of the kids. Special ed teachers, IME, are a certain type of person..they almost feel a calling like a priest or nun would.

I sometimes think about whether drs are talking about me (I see a lot of drs. unfortuantely) and in some cases I am sure they are because I have had some pretty strange things happen (in fact, once at a teaching hospital, a dr. ran and got a whole class of people to come watch/feel a tendon in my hip pop), but over all, I figure they have seen worse so meh, whatever.

The point I was making is that HERE there is a double standard based on post count, which is stupid.

That makes sense. And I agree that kids are seen as being off limit. I have seen lots of doctors too, unfortunately. I have some really great ones, so I'm just going to believe that they don't have a special abbreviation for me. If they do, I'm just going to pretend they don't. Gotta love it when the doctors call in the students to see you! I had a doctor take a picture of an allergic reaction I had once b/c he said he'd never seen one like it. Hmm, wonder if Dede's dr will take pictures of her eleventy pg belly??

[Wolfie]

Oh FFS. Because every health professional has to be 100% professional,100% of the time. Espescially on a snark board on the interwebs.

If you're going to call her out for using "Looney" then everyone else that's called Dede and EEG crazy deserves to be singled out too.

This. Nearly all professionals occasionally use non professional langage in order to not have problems with being too stressed at their jobs. It's human and how we cope. We generally make sure that it's not in hearing of anybody who might take offense, but it happens. And it doesn't mean that we can't work with those we vent about in private in a professional way.

[Patsy]

Is it too much to hope that the eleventy elephant horse lung baby comes out driving an rv? I don't think it would be any more far fetched than the rest of the miracle.

Literal lol. Holy shit that's a great mental image.

[Joan of Snarc]

We need to add "Has a Jezebel Spirit" to our user titles.

:character-velma:

[theCR]

Is it too much to hope that the eleventy elephant horse lung baby comes out driving an rv? I don't think it would be any more far fetched than the rest of the miracle.

Pics or it didn't happen.

I would believe in god if that happened!

[MandyLaLa]

The double standard to me is that (apparently), medical professionals talk about their patients in horribly unprofessional ways and get away with it, but as a teacher, if I EVER talked about my students like this, I'd be fired (and rightly so.) Not only my students, but ANY student. Teachers don't call children idiots or the "r" word. I've literally never heard it happen in my whole career. Why do medical professionals think it's ok?

I hope it makes everyone feel better that I can assure you, as a teacher, that I've never said (or heard anyone say) something horrible about a student. Maybe that will make up a little bit for how yucky I feel knowing that (apparently) my doctors and nurses say horrible things about me when my back is turned.

My stepmother teaches in an inner city, she's fantastic and loves her job but her and her friends definitely trade stories and gossip about their students. Nothing malicious or cruel but they do talk. They're a fun bunch at Friday happy hour.

[OkToBeTakei]

It makes me one dimensional and judgemental b/c I don't call children idiots and retards and because I think any educator who does should be fired? If so, then hey, I own it. Venting, sharing frustrations, sure. Calling people names and having abbreveations that you throw around in a professional setting, as was mentioned above? I have never seen it happen in my profession.

I'm not saying teachers are perfect. All you have to do is watch the news to see otherwise. But I think there must be some kind of different expectation. Apparently, for medical professionals this is OK or else they wouldn't do it.

Absolutely everyone makes mistakes. My students know that and they know it's OK. But they deserve to learn from people who consider them too valuable to call them names. A teacher can vent about how tired they are, how exhausting the job is (it is!), etc, without calling people names and coming up with abbreviations for them.

eta: Since I don't know what it means to "tell people how shit they are," I'm pretty sure I didn't do that here.

No I do get you and my sister does not also call any child an idiot or retard.So apologies if I came across as being personal to you, more a reaction to the thread de-rail. But the whole point was that the original poster used some very loose terms that were turned in to some witch hunt. The original poster alluded to humour in her profession. She pointed out this was an internet forum. It then became some ridiculous moral one upmanship (yes it is a word..now.)

I am not trying to de-cry what you are saying in regards to your profession or how you conduct yourself. But this thread and what transpired just makes it so much hypocrisy. By reading it or adding to it, we are all part of it. So it makes no difference IF the OP is a therapist if you are a teacher or Curious actually is a feckin' rabbit. The point is if you feel like pointing a finger at one thing or one person as in the newbie. Then what makes it suddenly ok to cry OMG THAT is bloody wrong, YOU are soooo bloody wrong? We snark on real life people on this site. (I find it hard to believe Steve Maxwell is real but hey ho.) But that IS what the site is about. UNTIL suddenly the snarker becomes the snarked upon.

You can call the fundies and their beliefs as judgemental as you like. It is nothing compared to how some like to spend more time snarking on the snarkers and getting off on the rush. Strange but true.

[So Says I]

We need to add "Has a Jezebel Spirit" to our user titles.

:character-velma:

Yes, it would be even better than "eleventy months pregnant"!

Was that a Velma smile I saw? Jinkies, I'm just like her when I don't have my contacts in and can't find my glasses.

[Ex 2x2]

No I do get you and my sister does not also call any child an idiot or retard.So apologies if I came across as being personal to you, more a reaction to the thread de-rail. But the whole point was that the original poster used some very loose terms that were turned in to some witch hunt. The original poster alluded to humour in her profession. She pointed out this was an internet forum. It then became some ridiculous moral one upmanship (yes it is a word..now.)

I am not trying to de-cry what you are saying in regards to your profession or how you conduct yourself. But this thread and what transpired just makes it so much hypocrisy. By reading it or adding to it, we are all part of it. So it makes no difference IF the OP is a therapist if you are a teacher or Curious actually is a feckin' rabbit. The point is if you feel like pointing a finger at one thing or one person as in the newbie. Then what makes it suddenly ok to cry OMG THAT is bloody wrong, YOU are soooo bloody wrong? We snark on real life people on this site. (I find it hard to believe Steve Maxwell is real but hey ho.) But that IS what the site is about. UNTIL suddenly the snarker becomes the snarked upon.

You can call the fundies and their beliefs as judgemental as you like. It is nothing compared to how some like to spend more time snarking on the snarkers and getting off on the rush. Strange but true.

I can see this. I didn't have strong feelings about the poster who left, one way or the other. My strong feelings came from learning that doctors talk this way about their patients...if this thread is to be believed, often and regularly. I think Curious was right that the double standard between teachers and medical professionals is because children are pretty much off limits.

I think with regards to Mimi (i think that was the poster who left), I probably fall on the side of thinking that hopefully she wouldn't call her own patients loonies or whatever it was, but calling someone she doesn't even know that on a snark board is a different thing.

[OkToBeTakei]

EX 2x2 wrote

I can see this. I didn't have strong feelings about the poster who left, one way or the other. My strong feelings came from learning that doctors talk this way about their patients...if this thread is to be believed, often and regularly. I think Curious was right that the double standard between teachers and medical professionals is because children are pretty much off limits.

I think with regards to Mimi (i think that was the poster who left), I probably fall on the side of thinking that hopefully she wouldn't call her own patients loonies or whatever it was, but calling someone she doesn't even know that on a snark board is a different thing.

Snipped for longliness.

Yes Doctors/ Nurses do. I am one. To the point that on a recent in patient stay I was trying not to trigger the known triggers. Health profession is full of patients who are not always upfront. I find this does colour the view. Rest assured most health professionals back me up here..know the difference and treat everybody with respect. The cynicism is born of many using the system. It is a sad fact. If it is any consolation another common phrase I hear very often is. 'Set me right here..my initial thought is....' Good professionals police each others cynicism. I am talking from a small part of the field I know.

Children should always be off limits. Parents? :lol: Don't answer. That would be be my one reason for not being a teacher. That and I would be shit at it.

[Ex 2x2]

Snipped for longliness.

Yes Doctors/ Nurses do. I am one. To the point that on a recent in patient stay I was trying not to trigger the known triggers. Health profession is full of patients who are not always upfront. I find this does colour the view. Rest assured most health professionals back me up here..know the difference and treat everybody with respect. The cynicism is born of many using the system. It is a sad fact. If it is any consolation another common phrase I hear very often is. 'Set me right here..my initial thought is....' Good professionals police each others cynicism. I am talking from a small part of the field I know.

Children should always be off limits. Parents? :lol: Don't answer. That would be be my one reason for not being a teacher. That and I would be shit at it.

Lol, I was just trying to think if I really had heard a teacher call a child a name, and I thought no, but calling the parents a name? Different story altogether! So I guess it makes more sense to me in light of that. Calling parents names is obviously unprofessional, but it does happen. Some of them just make it way too easy. I had an ER doctor who was treating me once tell me about how frustrating it is that so much of his time is taken up with drug-seeking patients. I can imagine that (drug seeking patients) is the kind of thing that is often responsible for the cynicism.

[Ellimenopy]

I can see this. I didn't have strong feelings about the poster who left, one way or the other. My strong feelings came from learning that doctors talk this way about their patients...if this thread is to be believed, often and regularly. I think Curious was right that the double standard between teachers and medical professionals is because children are pretty much off limits.

I think with regards to Mimi (i think that was the poster who left), I probably fall on the side of thinking that hopefully she wouldn't call her own patients loonies or whatever it was, but calling someone she doesn't even know that on a snark board is a different thing.

She wasn't talking about her patients, though - she was talking about strangers, whom we all collectively think are pretty cray cray. "Loony" isn't a clinical term or even really that perforative. Does her profession cut her off from using all colloquial terms for crazy for everybody? I mean, you teach and don't use perforative terms for your students. Does that mean you can never call ANYBODY lazy, or stupid? I mean, none of us have sat down and examined these two, but on the face of it, it IS pretty loony.

And as for the medical derision, well, I'm not in medicine only related to people who are. But, in my experience, they aren't necessarily snarking on people, but the situations that they're subjected to. My brother, who's now in med school, was an orderly last summer. And I remember one time when I was visiting he came home limping a little, and, um... described the lady that he had to lift that day as a "fattie". But then when I told him I was sorry he had a bad day, and he said that it really wasn't a bad day, that she was really nice, and that he was really glad that he was able to help her... just now his back hurt. It's possible to separate the shitty situation from the people that you're trying to help. Medicine, especially, is just SO stressful because you're always dealing with real people.

[Wolfie]

My sister who is a teacher of, not polite to mention her age loooooonnnnggg time quite regularly is very un-pc to me her sister on a regular basis about the frustrations of both her students, her profession and her colleagues. I'll be sure to tell her what a shit human being she is for you know, being a human being and getting a bit of stress out about it at times.

No you don't make me feel better. You make me feel like I don't want some one dimensional judgemental person teaching my child quite frankly. I would like my child to know that everybody makes mistakes sometimes and trying to be perfect all the time while laudable is not a yardstick to how good you are as a person. Oh and telling everybody else how shit they are. I really don't want her taught that. Apart from that thanks for your profession.

Your sister sounds more like the teachers I work with. We may not call them idiots or retards, but sometimes it happens that we have to vent about a student. That's why teachers' room doors are kept closed in some schools. Other schools don't allow it, and those schools tend to be the much more uncomfortable schools to work at.

[gulag]

Okay, we're back to that?

Let me make a few things clear. I'm a teacher's kid. I know what they do and say. ["they" = some of them. Different people and different times in varying circumstances under a wide huge broad spectrum of personalities, backgrounds and education standards. My personal experience. Not sweeping generalization.]

"The double standard to me is that (apparently), medical professionals talk about their patients in horribly unprofessional ways and get away with it"

NO, medical professionals do not talk about their patients in horribly unprofessional ways and get away with it.

"...as a teacher, if I EVER talked about my students like this, I'd be fired (and rightly so.)"

Some teachers do. Apparently YOU don't. Good. Docs and nurses will be promptly fired as well, if it's appropriate.

"Teachers don't call children idiots or the "r" word. I've literally never heard it happen in my whole career. Why do medical professionals think it's ok?"

Fact - teachers indeed DID use the word "retarded" up until this generation. That was proper professional terminology. The origins of that word as it applies to the human condition HAD no negative connotations. The phrase was "mental retardation." Trisomy-13 was called "mongoloid." A professional standard has evolved, as it always does. Now it's not acceptable. Teachers no longer use that word. Neither does the medical profession, except as saying "mental retardation." There are other better scientific medical terminology.

"I can assure you, as a teacher, that I've never said (or heard anyone say) something horrible about a student."

Not intentionally, anyway. You probably have, but just don't know it. It should be no great surprise that somebody else's perceptions and interpretations are frequently quite different. Regardless, you would be an exception and a fine example to teachers everywhere. I can appreciate your good intentions and commitment to excellence.

"Maybe that will make up a little bit for how yucky I feel knowing that (apparently) my doctors and nurses say horrible things about me when my back is turned."

[Joan of Snarc]

Yes, it would be even better than "eleventy months pregnant"!

Was that a Velma smile I saw? Jinkies, I'm just like her when I don't have my contacts in and can't find my glasses.

That is Velma. I thought she was a good representative of the Jezebel Spirit. Velma ain't submitting, no how, no way. There are also Daphne, Fred and Shaggy smilies. I swear every day I "see" new ones I didn't notice before. It's a veritable smiley smorgasbord.

:character-chef:

[persuas1ve]

So they want a camper in order to minister on the road. Sounds a lot like someone no longer has a home church and may have burned a few bridges with her million-month pregnancy. Wondering if his parents want them gone.

No worries, I have a great idea! The Shraders are heading to Zambia to convert Christians to Christianity, so they won't be needing their pop-up! We know it can hold 10 people, so perhaps they can unload it on Double-D and StillGayGreg...there will be plenty of room for all the lung foals/vag rabbts/imaginary babies she's carrying!

[LainieR]

It's called compassion fatigue. It's well documented in literature. It has a lot of systemic causes, not just the attitude of the health care professional.

Well, if those on high horses have ridden off into the sunset, could we get back to snarking on the fundies?

[snarkykitty]

Baloney! Not even possible! Now I'm doubting your credential.

---snip---

Did you mean you've spent a lifetime in medical settings as a patient and never heard any snarky comments?

---snip---

I've spent my entire life as a medical patient, have spent a lot of times "behind the scenes" while waiting, hearing discussions meant among professionals. I noted that yes, I've heard them joke, laugh, and have conversations (heck, it's necessary to be able to decompress when you work in these professions) and they certainly have "code words" (like "frequent flyer" for someone who's in the ER constantly).

My point was that I would consider it rude and unprofessional, for example, for a Baratric Surgeon to say on a public message board that he did surgery on two "fatties", or a Teacher who works with Special Needs children post on a public forum that she teachers a "bunch of idiots". I think that there's a natural level of respect and dignity that would likely result from years of learning and helping people of that population, and the expectation that most of the time, the same dignity is given towards patients.

I certainly believe that some professionals, particularly the burned-out or generally less mature, will get a kick out of using disrespectful language when speaking about clients and others with mental illness. I think it generally comes from an inner need to 'other' the sufferers and perhaps to distance themselves from the rather levelling reality that some 1 in 4 people will suffer mental health problems during their lifetime.

Are there people who DO talk this way? Yes. I'm saying that I think it is rude to do so. It doesn't matter how long a day you've had, how frustrated you are at noncompliance, etc. All patients - including people who aren't your patients but who are under the type of care that you would typically provide - deserve respect. It is not respectful for a Psychiatrist to call someone "loonie", especially when speaking about their own personal practice.

Yeah, unless health care workers are extremely different from other "in the trenches" workers -- police, firefighters, social workers with 'challenging" groups, substance abuse counselors.... I am going to bet they do some venting in not very polite terms at least occasionally.

I think when you are faced every.single.day. with some of the scariest, bizarre, self-sabotaging, traumatizing and depressing of the human experience - it is a normal coping tool to let off steam and sometimes it isn't in the nicest of words. I think if done correctly it can help workers to remain professional and empathetic while interacting with the actual people involved.

I know that these people ARE The ones in the trenches and thus should be given some latitude in how they deal with their jobs and separating it from their life-life, but there is a line that shouldn't be crossed. When it is, it's unprofessional. That's all I said.

[OkToBeTakei]

Lol, I was just trying to think if I really had heard a teacher call a child a name, and I thought no, but calling the parents a name? Different story altogether! So I guess it makes more sense to me in light of that. Calling parents names is obviously unprofessional, but it does happen. Some of them just make it way too easy. I had an ER doctor who was treating me once tell me about how frustrating it is that so much of his time is taken up with drug-seeking patients. I can imagine that (drug seeking patients) is the kind of thing that is often responsible for the cynicism.

:lol: Living with a sister who is a very active and I think very good example of her profession (but ffs don't tell her I said that.) I try really hard NOT to be that parent. With your kid it is hard. As she says every single parent thinks their child is the most special. Which they are. Pretty bloody exhausting when some of the parents are totally *insert non offensive word*

It is not only drug users. Cast your thoughts over society. The OP mentioned some acronyms I have never heard of. Here is random one I heard recently. LW. Lonely widow/widower. Always dealt with, with compassion. But can waste as much time as a drug user in a busy A+E. Would the person be horrified and hurt to know they were called that? Yes, they would. But it is a short and succinct diagnosis that can be passed on so the person gets what they need. A less qualified member of staff, some time, a cup of tea and a sympathetic ear.

Wondering if Exgay and Dede would not already be on the radar of Mental health services? It would certainly not go unnoticed where I live. Especially considering they have a young child living with them?

[OkToBeTakei]

It's called compassion fatigue. It's well documented in literature. It has a lot of systemic causes, not just the attitude of the health care professional.

Well, if those on high horses have ridden off into the sunset, could we get back to snarking on the fundies?

Dinnae fret lass.

Dude no worries. (translated)

By Xgay Greg and Dedes Neverending Miracle Pregnancy pt 565 ..because let us be very real. Sit down now. That is how long it is going to take for her to produce Exgaymessiah.

This derail will just be a braxton hicks. Something that was necessary and had to be discussed because it was such a memorable errr pregnancy?

But I'm glad it was brought up. Ok it never happens tidily on FJ. But until somebody has another feckin' festivus. So be it :lol: