Where's the compassion? Abortion vs Fundie Lifestyle

[Guest Anonymous]

I am against laws against suicide. Seat belt laws are a little different; the human body can become a projectile and kill others in the car. It is a matter of public safety as much as personal safety.

So then you think motorcycles and bicycles should be outlawed as well because I would guess there is a much higher chance of a motorcyclist or bicyclist becoming a human projectile than a person unbelted in a car?

[Guest Anonymous]

No politician can make abortion illegal. It is a right protected by the Supreme Court, like freedom of speech.

Any decision can be reversed. It just depends on the balance of power in the Supreme Court. Laws change all the time.

[Witsec7]

I have zero beef with the election process. I wish there were more choices than just the same old politicians who make huge promises and then fall flat when in office (this would be both parties, not just one or the other).

Quite obviously you do, you somehow think it will impact whether abortion will become illegal. And as noted previously, elections have nothing to do with maintaining a women's right to choose.

BTW I'm ignoring strawman argument vis a vis suicide and seatbelts. Roe v Wade was a ruling based on medical privacy.

[Guest Anonymous]

That was my first question, what is your point??

No point other than wondering why some women are deserving of compassion and others aren't. But I can tell by the answers that the fundies women aren't shown compassion because their beliefs are different than those here and therefore they are somehow wrong while everyone here is right.

I can also tell by the answers that you all have no issues with cyber bullying and that most have it down to an art form.

[emmiedahl]

So then you think motorcycles and bicycles should be outlawed as well because I would guess there is a much higher chance of a motorcyclist or bicyclist becoming a human projectile than a person unbelted in a car?

I am all for reasonable safety measures. If a person is going to drive a car, tethering them to the car seems reasonable. Actually, a motorcyclist or bicyclist does not have the same capability of becoming a projectile. People in this situation usually injure other people in their vehicle, so there is a need to protect those other passengers. I am protected from people outside my car by the actual car. A bicyclist or motorcyclist is only endangering themselves, and I am fine with that.

[treemom]

So explain then why it is ok for there to be laws that tell me that I must use a seat belt? If I fail to use a seat belt and I die, shouldn't that be MY choice, because it is MY body?

What about suicide? Why are people who try suicide locked up and given psychiatric care after a failed suicide? Shouldn't we just let them die where they are or release them without any mental health care because after all, it is THEIR body and THEIR choice to kill it if they want to?

Abortion is a medical decision provided by medical providers who are already regulated and licensed.

Seatbelts aren't medical decisions. And there is a community cost born when people don't wear seatbelts.

[fundiefan]

So then you think motorcycles and bicycles should be outlawed as well because I would guess there is a much higher chance of a motorcyclist or bicyclist becoming a human projectile than a person unbelted in a car?

Give yourself a hand. You are great at making something of nothing and using your personal prejudices and assumptions to put words in the mouths of others. It's a skill, you know that, right? One you're great at, but have a long way to go before being able to do it without detection.

[Angri-la]

Just as you all have the right to use your vote to try to keep people in power that believe it should be legal, I also have that same right to cast my vote for people who are pro-life. My right is not higher than your right, and your right is not higher than mine.

I seriously doubt that abortion will ever be illegal in the US. But that doesn't change the fact that it is my right to cast my vote for those who are pro-life and it also doesn't change the fact that it is my right to decide whether or not I would drive a woman to an abortion clinic. I don't expect anyone on this board to agree with my choices, but just as you all have the right to choose abortion since it is currently legal, I also have the right to vote with those who are pro-life and to disagree with the notion that abortion in any circumstance is ok.

Ah, so now it is all about votes. Yay for democracy in action! Yes, you have a right to be a single issue voter; it does make me sad that many people jump on a single issue vote decision.

If there is a poor woman out there who is asking you for a ride to the abortion clinic, you go ahead and have her PM me. I will send her cab fare.

And, because of your tone, I do think you believe your right is higher than mine, but I may just be misunderstanding. This just seems like trolling.

[Guest Anonymous]

So what about the babies who during the course of an abortion are actually born alive and could be saved? Is it ok to go ahead and murder them even though they are out of the womb and could be saved? Because if it is ok that they be left in a room to die or placed in the garbage and allowed to die, then what about the girls who give birth in a bathroom and decide to drown their newborn in the toilet or throw them in the closest dumpster? Should that be ok too?

[emmiedahl]

Any decision can be reversed. It just depends on the balance of power in the Supreme Court. Laws change all the time.

Laws change, but our basic civil rights do not change. We have a right to determine our own medical care under the more basic right to privacy. The Supreme Court is currently made mostly of conservative Christians who clearly agree with me. I believe the justices who heard Roe v. Wade were also mainly Christian conservatives.

So what about the babies who during the course of an abortion are actually born alive and could be saved? Is it ok to go ahead and murder them even though they are out of the womb and could be saved? Because if it is ok that they be left in a room to die or placed in the garbage and allowed to die, then what about the girls who give birth in a bathroom and decide to drown their newborn in the toilet or throw them in the closest dumpster? Should that be ok too?

That does not happen.

[Guest Anonymous]

Yeah, right.

[treemom]

So what about the babies who during the course of an abortion are actually born alive and could be saved? Is it ok to go ahead and murder them even though they are out of the womb and could be saved? Because if it is ok that they be left in a room to die or placed in the garbage and allowed to die, then what about the girls who give birth in a bathroom and decide to drown their newborn in the toilet or throw them in the closest dumpster? Should that be ok too?

WTF?

Both of those are already against the law. And also #1 almost never happens, it is propoganda. The majority of abortions are performed well before 24 weeks. In fact an abortion after viability is not so easy to get.

At least get your facts right.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

Um, my right to my uterus is most certainly higher than your right to my uterus.

I think her point was to have another fucking abortion debate.

Much love to you, treemom and others who will bravely admit to having an abortion even though you know ignorant twits will tear you down for it.

[Witsec7]

So what about the babies who during the course of an abortion are actually born alive and could be saved? Is it ok to go ahead and murder them even though they are out of the womb and could be saved? ...

Lying is a sin :naughty:

[treemom]

Why does everyone thing that getting an abortion after 24 weeks is some walk in the park and happens all over the place?

[latraviata]

So what about the babies who during the course of an abortion are actually born alive and could be saved? Is it ok to go ahead and murder them even though they are out of the womb and could be saved? Because if it is ok that they be left in a room to die or placed in the garbage and allowed to die, then what about the girls who give birth in a bathroom and decide to drown their newborn in the toilet or throw them in the closest dumpster? Should that be ok too?

Your medical knowledge is not very impressive.

An aborted emryo is not a baby.

http://joangushin.homestead.com/embryo.html

Look at the several stages of pregnancy.

The murdered babies you talk about were better off aborted don't you think??

[fundiefan]

So what about the babies who during the course of an abortion are actually born alive and could be saved? Is it ok to go ahead and murder them even though they are out of the womb and could be saved? Because if it is ok that they be left in a room to die or placed in the garbage and allowed to die, then what about the girls who give birth in a bathroom and decide to drown their newborn in the toilet or throw them in the closest dumpster? Should that be ok too?

And what about....and what about...and what about....

What the hell is your point here? Bringing up every conceivable, questionable, debatable law or moral code on the planet will accomplish...what, exactly?

[emmiedahl]

Yeah, right.

That is already illegal. If you know of this happening, call the police. It is not an abortion, it is infanticide.

[treemom]

Yeah, right.

It does not. The burden of proof is on you to prove it does.

[Witsec7]

Why does everyone thing that getting an abortion after 24 weeks is some walk in the park and happens all over the place?

No mom, not everybody. Just a few misinformed idiots.

[oscar]

Why is anyone still talking to this goober?

[treemom]

Why is anyone still talking to this goober?

Because I have the crazy.

[Witsec7]

And what about....and what about...and what about....

What the hell is your point here? Bringing up every conceivable, questionable, debatable law or moral code on the planet will accomplish...what, exactly?

This is her modus operandi. We went around and around the same way when she was claiming to be living in a car.

[oscar]

Because I have the crazy.

Ah, gotcha ;)

[Sola]

Which is fine if:

a. there is a god.

b. that god is the god of the Christian religion.

c. abortion is a sin

Seeing as you cannot possibly answer those questions positively and with absolute certainty, then your point that abortion is sinful behaviour is moot.

However there are certain universal standards amongst humanity. Child abuse is wrong. Controlling another person is wrong. Treating another person as a second class citizen is wrong. I'm sure that you agree with me on these three points. Therefore surely it is perfectly acceptable for us to be intolerant towards those who break those universal standards.

You shouldn't be expected to show someone compassion in those circumstances, but at the same time you shouldn't either condemn them.

Why should abortion be illegal?

It's to save your life and the life of someone else. Because yes, there are people who are dumb enough to refuse to wear one.

Do you have any idea how diabolical mental health services are in the USA?

That's why helmets should be worn. In the UK you have to wear one, no idea if it is the same in the USA. And actually, most motorbike/bicycle accidents are caused by other road users. Rather than outlaw a legitimate form of transportation, it would be far better to actually teach ALL road users to look out for motorbikes/bicycles. Then there would be fewer accidents involving those vehicles and people like my dad would still be alive.

Stats and citation please. Here in the UK if a baby is born alive then it must receive medical treatment.

As for women who give birth in secret and leave the baby to die, if abortion was more readily available there would a huge reduction in cases like that. That is a fact and supported by research.