Where's the compassion? Abortion vs Fundie Lifestyle

[fundiefan]

The key word in the 'label' pro-choice is choice.

I am pro-choice. I am not pro-abortion or anti-life.

Your sister is pro-choice. She made a choice, after knowing and weighing the circumstances and her options. No one forced her to abort and no one forced her to carry the pregnancy to term. She decided.

[liltwinstar]

Pro-choice doesn't mean pro-abortion. It means keeping it legal and safe and allowing a woman and her doctor to decide.

Yes, exactly. I am pro-choice because I believe abortion should be legal and private, not becuase I think abortion is awesome and fun.

[Guest Anonymous]

First off wow! I didn't read all the post, just the 1st page. Freejinger does not make fun of every fundy. They seem to jump on the ones who are very judgmental and crazy ones. Sorry but as someone who was in the Fundy lifestyle you seem to not get the fact that first not all fundies have internet, that was a big argument at my church, because some feel it is evil. And two not all fundies t have blogsl Out of the ones who do have blogs very few make the freejinger radar, because well not everyone who has a blog is posting EVERYTHING about themselves or spewing hate. And even fewer are just so insane you can't help snark at them. And honestly alot of the ones freejinger snarks at, some more liberal laugh at too. But no not all fundies are judgmental crazy bloggers. And you don't have to be a fundy to have alot of kids. Also not all fundy blogs are interesting most women with larger families don't have time to play online so they have very quiet blogs.

[Effie]

I think abortion should be allowed, not only in the extreme cases like when the brain in the fetus is missing. It should be allowed if the woman decides that she can't through with the pregnancy - no matter the reason. Let's see her. I know a kiddo who got pregnant. She thought that abortion was wrong, so she didn't go through with it. She gave birth to a healthy baby, but she couldn't handle taking care of the child. She couldn't even take care of herself. She was not ready and overwhelmed. She tried to commit suicide and posted photos of her skin where she had burnt herself or cut herself. It was a cry for help. I called the CPS on her and they intervened. They took her into protective custody, and placed the baby somewhere else. I'm just saying: if a girl or woman feels that she can't go through with the pregnancy for whatever reason, then she should not do it. It will only harm her and the baby in the end.

I have mentioned my mother before. She had an abortion in her 20s because she felt that she couldn't bring a child into her family at that point. She lived with her two sisters, two parents and a niece in two rooms. My mum had to take care of her schizophrenic sister and her neglected niece (her sister didn't take care of him). There was no way she could have taken care of an extra child. If she had decided to go through with the pregnancy, then she might had neglected the other people who needed her.

[theologygeek]

Pro-choice doesn't mean pro-abortion. It means keeping it legal and safe and allowing a woman and her doctor to decide.

Your sister is still pro-choice.

I know she's pro-choice, and that pro-choice doesn't mean pro abortion. The point was that two pro-lifers told her to get an abortion. The labels are stupid. Even the pro-life fundies aren't 100% "pro-life" in context of the label. There are too many variables when it comes to pregnancies to put labels on abortion.

[theologygeek]

The key word in the 'label' pro-choice is choice.

I am pro-choice. I am not pro-abortion or anti-life.

Your sister is pro-choice. She made a choice, after knowing and weighing the circumstances and her options. No one forced her to abort and no one forced her to carry the pregnancy to term. She decided.

Most pro-lifers are in favor of choice, and most pro-choicers are in favor of life. Whoever coined the terms was an idiot.

[kpmom]

I guess DA is long gone, but just wanted to add that I've actually been moved by the compassion shown by FJers here for some of the fundy women living in limbo as women-children. I'm thinking specifically of Sarah Maxwell and the Botkin sisters, although I'm sure there are more.

These women have said themselves they desire marriage and children, and yet can do nothing, nothing themselves to further that goal along. How many threads have we had here discussing who these young women might marry, and worrying about what might happen to them if they never do marry?

If I were DA I'd worry much more about the mental health of these women by being denied any lives of their own, than by anything posted on FJ.

[fundiefan]

I guess DA is long gone, but just wanted to add that I've actually been moved by the compassion shown by FJers here for some of the fundy women living in limbo as women-children. I'm thinking specifically of Sarah Maxwell and the Botkin sisters, although I'm sure there are more.

These women have said themselves they desire marriage and children, and yet can do nothing, nothing themselves to further that goal along. How many threads have we had here discussing who these young women might marry, and worrying about what might happen to them if they never do marry?

If I were DA I'd worry much more about the mental health of these women by being denied any lives of their own, than by anything posted on FJ.

In another recently active thread, many FJer's have expressed compassion for Zsuzsu, the ultimate in nasty hate. Admittedly, I am not one of them, but the amount of compassion shown by FJer's is, overall, amazing and inspiring.

[treemom]

Most pro-lifers are in favor of choice, and most pro-choicers are in favor of life. Whoever coined the terms was an idiot.

No, most pro-lifers are not in favor of choice. They are in favor of exceptions...but not choices.

[formergothardite]

Exactly treemom and this thread stems from DA being called out on making exceptions and choosing to only show any sort of compassion if you fit into her narrow guidlines. As much as DA ranted about a fetus really being a baby, she was okay with killing babies when it suited her. Of course, she back tracked on that and got all huffy and said "Excuse me for daring to show compassion."

[Discobiscuit]

I thought DA lost the compassion sweepstakes when she decided that she would treat an underage girl who had an abortion like any other woman who had one, i.e. as a criminal if abortion were a crime and had a specific penalty. That seemed like a big "fuck you, you thought I was going to show compassion!"

Everytime I see "DA" I think Duck Ass. Heh heh

BTW, longtime lurker, peeping out to say "hi" and join the conversation.

[Mommy22alyns]

Yes, exactly. I am pro-choice because I believe abortion should be legal and private, not becuase I think abortion is awesome and fun.

+1 (or is it 2?)

[crawfishgirl]

My aunt went to high school in the late 60's before abortion was legal. She knew a few girls who almost died due to having illegal abortions under unsanitary conditions. As a result, she has always vocally supported the reproductive right to choose. People will always find a way to have an abortion, so it needs to be kept legal and safe. This is why I am pro-choice. And if we teach our kids realistic and practical sex ed instead of just abstinence, the need for it will decrease.

[theologygeek]

No, most pro-lifers are not in favor of choice. They are in favor of exceptions...but not choices.

Pro means in favor of. Conservative Christians scream the loudest when they feel that their rights are being taken away. They are very pro choice. A person wouldn't fight to homeschool, to keep the government out of their lives, to worship a certain way, to proselytize, etc., if they weren't in favor of choices. It's like saying "I'm in favor of eating food, but I'm not in favor of eating lima beans." You're still in favor of eating food. You're talking about the people. I'm talking about the terms. The terms are not appropriate for abortion, and never were.

[keeperrox]

Pro means in favor of. Conservative Christians scream the loudest when they feel that their rights are being taken away. They are very pro choice. A person wouldn't fight to homeschool, to keep the government out of their lives, to worship a certain way, to proselytize, etc., if they weren't in favor of choices. It's like saying "I'm in favor of eating food, but I'm not in favor of eating lima beans." You're still in favor of eating food. You're talking about the people. I'm talking about the terms. The terms are not appropriate for abortion, and never were.

That's a great etymology lesson, but your argument is still flawed. Conservative Christians, especially those who we discuss here are in no way, shape, or form in favor of any type of choice that goes against their own teachings. They favor Biblical law, all other opinions and interpretations be damned. They favor their own choices, but would imprison and kill anyone who makes a choice they disagree with. That's not pro-choice-anything.

[treemom]

Pro means in favor of. Conservative Christians scream the loudest when they feel that their rights are being taken away. They are very pro choice. A person wouldn't fight to homeschool, to keep the government out of their lives, to worship a certain way, to proselytize, etc., if they weren't in favor of choices. It's like saying "I'm in favor of eating food, but I'm not in favor of eating lima beans." You're still in favor of eating food. You're talking about the people. I'm talking about the terms. The terms are not appropriate for abortion, and never were.

So we are arguing semantics?

[theologygeek]

That's a great etymology lesson, but your argument is still flawed. Conservative Christians, especially those who we discuss here are in no way, shape, or form in favor of any type of choice that goes against their own teachings. They favor Biblical law, all other opinions and interpretations be damned. They favor their own choices, but would imprison and kill anyone who makes a choice they disagree with. That's not pro-choice-anything.

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I started off by saying that most people are in the middle because the TERMS are ridiculous. http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.actio ... 4977367323 As someone in one of the comments said "The terms are for propaganda use, not for rational debate."

[Witsec1]

Theologygeek, you haven't made a case that both terms are equally ridiculous. In the context of abortion rights, pro-choice is not as misleading or vague. There's nothing surprising or self-contradictory about being pro-reproductive-choice and not getting an abortion oneself. There's nothing paradoxical or surprising about supporting abortion rights and also supporting programs for low-income women to get pre-natal and maternity care. My position is that any woman who wants to go through with a pregnancy should be supported. What is ridiculous about calling that position "pro-choice"?

The pro-lifers want to paint me as anti-life, and that is a lie, I agree. But to say that the pro-lifers are anti-choice when it comes to reproductive rights is not a lie or misleading in any way. They want to restrict the right to choose abortion for most women in most situations. They are against choice in that situation, so I think it's perfectly legit to call myself pro-choice, implying that those who disagree are anti-choice. It's a false equivalency to say "pro-choice" is as ridiculous or misleading as "pro-life."

If I want to counter the pro-life smear that I am anti-life, I say that I am against forced birth. Which is what being pro-life actually means.

[emmiedahl]

I am not anti-life at all. I have had zero abortions. There are only a handful of extreme circumstances in which I would have one, and they would have to be pretty fucking extreme. But I have a husband and a supportive family (and what's one more kid at this point? lol heaven forbid).

If my baby sister found out she were pregnant, my opinion would be that she should do whatever her conscience tells her. Her body, her life, her choice. My maternal overdrive and personal philosophy about parenthood should not be a political force. If someone is having 8 abortions a year, I still don't think I have the right to judge. I don't like it, and I don't have to because it is not my body.

Why do we even care about fetuses? There are real live children doing without what they need. It seems to silly to focus on a tiny blob that is not even sentient yet.

[Austin]

I am not anti-life at all. I have had zero abortions. There are only a handful of extreme circumstances in which I would have one, and they would have to be pretty fucking extreme. But I have a husband and a supportive family (and what's one more kid at this point? lol heaven forbid).

If my baby sister found out she were pregnant, my opinion would be that she should do whatever her conscience tells her. Her body, her life, her choice. My maternal overdrive and personal philosophy about parenthood should not be a political force. If someone is having 8 abortions a year, I still don't think I have the right to judge. I don't like it, and I don't have to because it is not my body.

Why do we even care about fetuses? There are real live children doing without what they need. It seems to silly to focus on a tiny blob that is not even sentient yet.

This is exactly how I would describe my position.

[StarrieEyedKat]

This is exactly how I would describe my position.

Thirded.

[roddma]

It is hard to have compassion for anyone who by ther own free will made their own choice. If it isn't their choice, I feel for them. Just as with those who decide to have abortions, Michelle made her own decision to have 19 kids. I think at some point it turned into an obsession for her. You start wondering if it is their choice. Remember there are extremes on all sides. I don't believe in forced abortions or denying B/C.

[roddma]

And if we teach our kids realistic and practical sex ed instead of just abstinence, the need for it will decrease

Havent read all these posts but couldn't agree more. Fundies can't see it that way. The Palins found out abstinece only didn't work lol

[Patsy]

Havent read all these posts but couldn't agree more. Fundies can't see it that way. The Palins found out abstinece only didn't work lol

You mean when Sarah was conceived before her parents' wedding? Or when her first child was conceived before her wedding? Or her oldest son conceived his first child before his wedding? Or when one of her daughters conceived a child out of wedlock? (Did I miss one? Did I miss one?)

(And I don't think there's anything wrong with any of it, and some of my best friends etc, but WOW, abstinence only from that family...)