Where's the compassion? Abortion vs Fundie Lifestyle

[Lainey]

I don't doubt it happened. But killing a live, viable child that is separate from its mother's body is to my knowledge not considered abortion and it is certainly not something that an accredited clinic would do. So I don't know why DA brought it up, except that she has once again talked herself into a corner and needs to make some emotional drama on her way out the door.

Ah, here we go. I found a reference to it on her website: http://www.jillstanek.com/bio/

Personally, I doubt it happened. I'm not saying it's impossible for something to have happened that was illegal, but she's definitely got an agenda.

[emmiedahl]

Eh, I'm not really believing her. I mean, this huge hospital with all these people everywhere, committees for everything, accrediting agencies and public health inspections... and she is the only one who saw this constant law breaking? Really?

[Witsec7]

The article about Stanek that was posted does not support your claim DA. Its merely a stroking of Staneks ego. Keep trying.

Right now I'm gonna rate you with a single

:liar:

I'll let others add to your over all ranking as they see fit.

edited for a riffle

[Yo Nurse]

experiencedd, I second the :liar:.

Y'all, I think FJ won the internets today and I nominate treemom for mvp.

[formergothardite]

Haven't read this whole thread, just the first page, but has DA answered why she was bitching about the government taking her tax money when Jesus said that if someone takes something of yours you shouldn't complain? I ask since DA did quote Jesus on the first page, so I wondering if she picks and chooses which of His words to follow. Or perhaps she is going to take the "go and sin no more" words to heart and not ever complain about being taxed?

[Shina]

Nah, she just tried to tell us abortion is teh ebil!!!11ty!!

Oh and then she flounced after we started discussing smocks and ignoring her boring-ass self.

[formergothardite]

Well crap! When pinned down on her stance that baby killing was okay sometimes and just like killing a murderer she changed her tune. I was hoping it was the case in this instance too.

[samithemage]

I don't remember who posted this idea in another similar thread, but they mentioned that these issues should be treated as all other medical issues. In the end, when a "person" is not capable of making medical decisions for themselves, then the next of kin makes those decisions. As much as I hate the idea of abortion as birth control, an embryo does not have rights to make legal medical decisions, I hate the idea of abortion, but I will fight for the right of every woman to make that choice. It's her body that will be used as a life support system for ten months. In every other situation the next of kin would be allowed to make the choice about life support. Why is it that in this most intimate situation, such decisions are scandalous. I would love for sex education to be comprehensive, for birth control to be free, and for abortion to be legal. Another person never has a legal right to my body. I don't get to choose life saving procedures for everyone in the USA, nor do I have the right to decide against life saving procedures. The choice isn't mind, but that of immediate family.

[emmiedahl]

[Nomorearrows]

in this post, does DA remind anyone else of itsthatonegirl (who wrote a post asking why FJers snark on the Duggars and other fundies when they are just amazing)?

[keeperrox]

So explain then why it is ok for there to be laws that tell me that I must use a seat belt? If I fail to use a seat belt and I die, shouldn't that be MY choice, because it is MY body?

What about suicide? Why are people who try suicide locked up and given psychiatric care after a failed suicide? Shouldn't we just let them die where they are or release them without any mental health care because after all, it is THEIR body and THEIR choice to kill it if they want to?

I don't give a shit if someone wears a seatbelt or not. I personally wear one, because I don't think flying through a glass window would be a good time, but that's just me.

Then we come to suicide. Are you really comparing someone with a mental illness to someone choosing to have an abortion? Really? Are you sure you really want to go there?

And if you just weren't being clear and really meant doctor assisted suicide in cases of terminal illness, then yes, we should let them make decisions about their own body.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

No point other than wondering why some women are deserving of compassion and others aren't. But I can tell by the answers that the fundies women aren't shown compassion because their beliefs are different than those here and therefore they are somehow wrong while everyone here is right.

I can also tell by the answers that you all have no issues with cyber bullying and that most have it down to an art form.

You're just another in a long line of people who think that they've found the "hypocrisy" in people who claim to be tolerant not putting up with your judgemental, intolerant beliefs - and you're going to point it out, because wow, so original! Except not.

Well guess what? There's nothing at all wrong with people being tolerant of everything EXCEPT intolerance. It's basic logic. Evolutionarily stable strategy, and all that.

So if you want to be intolerant and rigid, fine, but don't go around expecting warm fuzzies for it.

[Austin]

But devilsadvocate6, here is where I will agree with you. Sometimes I think that the snark goes too far (and dear God, don't bite my head off and accuse me of hand slapping, I just think it sometimes but keep my mouth shut about it. I am not trying to change what anyone says here or how they say it). There have been times where I was about to post something but didn't because it was overly mean and these people are real people with real feelings. However, this board is made up of all sorts with different opinions and people can express them however they want.

And I don't think a woman getting an abortion and someone writing a blog saying "LOOK AT MEEEEEEEEEEE!! I am perfect and wonderful and terrific and if you don't live exactly like me your doing it wrong and going to hell!" is quite the same thing. Now, if a woman opened up a blog and said she had 17 abortions and everyone else should do it too or they are going to hell and Jesus hates them, then I would snark away. I don't find the two situations comparable.

*sits back and waits for thread to blow up, knowing devilsadvocate6 will leave once things go south*

I don't disagree and I don't personally feel comfortable snarking on people's physicality, particularly if it's something they can't change. Those are my sensibilities and others are entitled to theirs. Exceptions would be a fundie who is hawking eye cream or some other crappy product and they say they use themselves and it obviously. . . isn't working. If it's something very offensive to me, I may say something as a regular poster (not as an admin as we have free speech at FJ, even speech that some may not like). Most of the time I just do not participate. FJ is a very diverse community and we are certainly not monolithic in our beliefs or sensibilities.

I don't have any problem with snarking on the ridiculousness of anyone >18. Examples of this would be the blogs by the SAHDs who write long compositions on marriage and child rearing, or the ones who pine away for their beloved, who may not even exist and she'll never find unless UPS delivers him to her doorstep. I also have sadness for these young women, because I believe they are throwing their lives away, but I also recognize it is their choice and I've never (nor has any FJer of whom I am aware) advocated somehow forcing them to go to school or work.

Which is one of many reasons I can't respect DA's position, because while I may disagree with someone's choices and even snark on them, I have no interest in legislating what choices they can or can't make. Also, as Boogaloo has already pointed out, there is not a slew of women who have had abortions writing open blogs about it and advocating it for everyone else to have one. If someone should write such a blog, they would have to be ready to take all sorts of criticism because it is clearly something about which people feel very strongly.

Also, for the most part, FJers seem to confine their snark to FJ. I know of few situations where FJers have written nasty posts on these fundie's blogs. Most of them will delete your post even if you just point out a flaw in their argument or question them, so it's pretty much a useless endeavor. So people have a choice to visit this site or not. There is no reason a fundie woman couldn't go merrily (yeah, right) through her life and never choose to visit us.

Finally, many FJers are former fundies/fundie-lites. Many of us have a pretty good idea of the damage done by this particular form of patriarchy, and are also familiar with the stunning lack of compassion within that belief system.

[Guest Anonymous]

Finally, many FJers are former fundies/fundie-lites. Many of us have a pretty good idea of the damage done by this particular form of patriarchy, and are also familiar with the stunning lack of compassion within that belief system.

+ 1,000.

[treemom]

Eh, I'm not really believing her. I mean, this huge hospital with all these people everywhere, committees for everything, accrediting agencies and public health inspections... and she is the only one who saw this constant law breaking? Really?

I never bought it.

[emmiedahl]

Well, even if that happened, it is not abortion. A live birth is a live birth.

Too bad DA flounced. I was hoping she would tell me more about how she is taking in children from foster care since she is so concerned about every single random combination of DNA getting its fair chance.

I avoid this particular political discussion with friends and family, so it is only at FreeJinger that I began to realize that pro-choice people care deeply about creating liveable habitats for children, while pro-lifers only care about the habitat leading up to birth. It's kind of sad. I am still waiting for someone to tell me that they are pro-life AND support socialist programs that give poor children a decent life AND support massive birth control education for teens.

[Austin]

Not to mention that late abortions, relatively speaking, are pretty damn rare. Women don't just up and say at six months pregnant, "Hey, I think I'll have an abortion". :roll: There are usually wrenching circumstances involved and all the more reason for others to keep their beaks out of it.

[treemom]

Not to mention that late abortions, relatively speaking, are pretty damn rare. Women don't just up and say at six months pregnant, "Hey, I think I'll have an abortion". :roll: There are usually wrenching circumstances involved and all the more reason for others to keep their beaks out of it.

And they have to have a provider, and in many states hospital, willing to do the abortion. I have always been surprised at the idea that you can just walk in off the street at 30 week pregnant and get one.

[Austin]

And they have to have a provider, and in many states hospital, willing to do the abortion. I have always been surprised at the idea that you can just walk in off the street at 30 week pregnant and get one.

Especially with the horrific murder of Dr. Tiller, it's frightening to think of how few providers there are in this country for the couples who find themselves in heartbreaking situations. Didn't you have to travel to another state?

[meda]

Just chiming back in to mention that I still don't want compassion, but I REALLY want one of latriviata's fetus trimmed community service smocks. :D I can wear it when I volunteer at PP and hope that the middle aged Catholic men who come with the dead baby pictures to protest will faint with horror.

[Yo Nurse]

I just had this odd flashback to being a junior in my all-girls' Catholic high school. We had a speaker on our retreat who was achieving some acclaim in the pro-life circles. After showing us all the requisite ostensibly aborted fetus pictures, she told us that in the public high school in her hometown, the school nurse hands out coupons for abortions. I half believed it and I think some of my classsmates may have too.

I don't know why I felt the need to chime in with that, apart from the knowledge that perhaps honesty isn't always paramount in these type of discussions with some folks.

[LilMissMetaphor]

I am wondering how it would make you all feel if you found out one day when logging on that one of the women or girls you snark on has committed suicide because she just couldn't handle the things that were being said here about her and her family. Some of these women could be extremely emotionally fragile and who knows what could drive them over the edge.

I am not, by nature, a compassionate person. At all.

I bolded part of your quote there because you answered your own question. I don't consider it's my responsibility to be constantly aware of others' fragile emotional states. If someone saw me on the street and I didn't happen to smile and acknowledge her, and that caused her to go home and kill herself, how is that my fault? Should I not say anything critical to an acquaintance on the off chance that she might be emotionally fragile enough to jump off the next bridge she sees? Please.

[Cannelle]

I'm mostly a quiet lurker, I don't post all that often (but I've been around since the days of the epic-length Duggar threads at TWOP, the ones that lead to the creation of FJ in the first place), but I have to say, emmiedahl, you are seriously one of my favorite people in all the internet. I agree with pretty much everything you say and I always enjoy reading your posts.

Back to my regular quiet reading. :)

[formergothardite]

I think this whole thread was started because DA was forced to admit it was hypocritical to say abortion is killing babies and then go on to say that sometimes it is okay to kill babies and she is majorly pissed off. So she was going to come show us what meanies were are with this thread. But, as always with this sort of thing, it didn't work and she had to flounce again. I bet she will be back with another "Look how horrible you are" thread at some point though.

[Yo Nurse]

I have to say, emmiedahl, you are seriously one of my favorite people in all the internet. I agree with pretty much everything you say and I always enjoy reading your posts.

I do too. emmiedahl, formergothardite, lilwinstar and lissar stand out as my favorites. I really really like lissar's avatar.