Zach & Whitney 9: What about that Pregnancy Shoot?

[Paperplate]

33 minutes ago, Longhairedheathen said:

Really!?! They chose Michael over Micha or Mychal (My-chelle). 

Yes, really. They really took the perfectly fine female first name they had picked for their daughter (Michal) and changed it to a (perfectly fine but) male name (Michael).

And what was the reason for even needing to change anything? They apparently didn't have the sense to check whether they actually liked the name they choose for their first daughter.

I don't know how much it would have cost to change Michal to Michaela instead of just Michael but I'm sure it would have been worth it! Especially since Michael's middle is Christian. Another male name!

There is literally no way to tell from her name that she's female. No hint at all. This must have been annoying and difficult, especially in a society that's hyperaware of gender distinctions.

4 hours ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

Per my cousins who used to go to church with the Bateses when there were like eight children, Michael was teased by other children at church and presumably other places because she had a "boy name." She added the "a" herself to be Michaela. One cousin of mine said that the teasing was so rough that it was basically bullying that left her in tears most weeks. Kelly apparently easily switched to calling her by that name in public but Gil rarely did. Her younger siblings grew up calling her that so it stuck. In her wedding episode she said she didn't care which one she was called as long as it was consistent in regard to the spelling and whatnot. 

That's sad. As an adult I have only ever seen her refer to herself as Michael. So maybe she made peace with the name.

In the early blog posts Kelly often (always?) called her Michaela.

[marmalade]

12 minutes ago, Paperplate said:

Yes, really. They really took the perfectly fine female first name they had picked for their daughter (Michal) and changed it to a (perfectly fine but) male name (Michael).

And what was the reason for even needing to change anything? They apparently didn't have the sense to check whether they actually liked the name they choose for their first daughter.

I don't know how much it would have cost to change Michal to Michaela instead of just Michael but I'm sure it would have been worth it! Especially since Michael's middle is Christian. Another male name!

There is literally no way to tell from her name that she's female. No hint at all. This must have been annoying and difficult, especially in a society that's hyperaware of gender distinctions.

That's sad. As an adult I have only ever seen her refer to herself as Michael. So maybe she made peace with the name.

In the early blog posts Kelly often (always?) called her Michaela.

Pretty sure it cost $75/letter to make changes past the first free letter. Keep in mind this was early 90s money.

[rebeccawriter01]

2 hours ago, Longhairedheathen said:

Really!?! They chose Michael over Micha or Mychal (My-chelle). 

Michal was the original name she had, but Michal in the Bible isn't exactly the best "character." Ironically Michal is punished by God by not being able to have children.

The state/county offices would change a name for $0 if you only added one letter. There are quite a few female Michaels, including one from one of their favorite shows, so they went with that. They weren't really big on trendy names and spellings so I don't think it occurred to them to be unique about it. She was an infant at the time they probably just wanted to fix their own "error." 

She has grown into the name and could have certainly changed it herself when she was an adult. It looks like her family use the names interchangeably. The story my cousins told was that some of the kids were picking on her about her name. She added the a either by herself or with the idea from someone else. They did say Zach was quick to jump to her defense. It was not just the name that they teased her about - she's got an old soul as people say and wasn't really as playful and fun as most kids tend to be in those years. Adding an a to a name you want to be called would be the easy fix there. As she has gotten older it isn't that big of a deal. Brandon seems to refer to her as Michael. 

[Tdoc72]

Why not Michala?  Feminine and one free letter.

[GreenBeans]

6 hours ago, Paperplate said:

I don't know how much it would have cost to change Michal to Michaela instead of just Michael but I'm sure it would have been worth it! Especially since Michael's middle is Christian. Another male name!

 

I just don’t get why they ever named her that in the first place. I mean, it’s not like a birth comes up so suddenly you don’t have time to think about a name in advance and have no choice but to blurt out the first thing that comes to mind.

They care so much about gender roles, and there are SO MANY unambiguously female Christian names to choose from. It’s really odd. Did they ever explain that?

[Melissa1977]

5 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

I just don’t get why they ever named her that in the first place. I mean, it’s not like a birth comes up so suddenly you don’t have time to think about a name in advance and have no choice but to blurt out the first thing that comes to mind.

They care so much about gender roles, and there are SO MANY unambiguously female Christian names to choose from. It’s really odd. Did they ever explain that?

They picked the name Michal during the pregnancy and were happy about it. Probably they just knew that it was biblical and liked the name, but hadn't read (or hadn't understood) the whole story.  After the baby's birth, they read it or someone told them about it. Then, they *needed* to change and they were either too poor or too cheap to do a proper change. 

I don't know when they changed the name. But if she was 3-4 months old, Kelly was already pregnant, so she had a 1 year old, a baby and a pregnancy and maybe she was too tired to think about it. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Melissa1977
Spelling

[Nothing if not critical]

I just find it weird that a family of bible-thumping evangelicals wouldn't have known the story of Michal before settling on that name. I'm an ex-Catholic whose main acquaintance with the Bible stems from the time I read it from cover to cover as a teen when I was bored (that was back when we only had three TV channels and no Internet), but I knew about Michal and her fate. I just find it hard to imagine that Gil and Kelly didn't. I also really wonder about "Christian" as a middle name - is that regularly used for girls in the US? Why would you pick a traditionally male middle name for your daughter in the first place?
Idk. Literally nothing about this story adds up. It's so strange and implausible.

[FluffySnowball]

1 hour ago, Nothing if not critical said:

I just find it weird that a family of bible-thumping evangelicals wouldn't have known the story of Michal before settling on that name. I'm an ex-Catholic whose main acquaintance with the Bible stems from the time I read it from cover to cover as a teen when I was bored (that was back when we only had three TV channels and no Internet), but I knew about Michal and her fate. I just find it hard to imagine that Gil and Kelly didn't. I also really wonder about "Christian" as a middle name - is that regularly used for girls in the US? Why would you pick a traditionally male middle name for your daughter in the first place?
Idk. Literally nothing about this story adds up. It's so strange and implausible.

Your observation makes a lot of sense and I think you actually point out a crucial feature of the IBLP belief system. Much of Gil and Kelly’s faith is determined by following particular rules and adhering to a strictly right wing political agenda. A real, deep, both spiritual and intellectual understanding of the Bible isn’t an aim or a requirement as long as there’s no birth control, a patriarchal family structure, and lots of frumpers (I know that the second gen is a bit different when it comes to clothing at least but I’m talking about the time the Bates parents had their children in the 90s and 2000s). 

Edited August 29, 2023 by FluffySnowball
typo

[rebeccawriter01]

6 hours ago, Nothing if not critical said:

I just find it weird that a family of bible-thumping evangelicals wouldn't have known the story of Michal before settling on that name. I'm an ex-Catholic whose main acquaintance with the Bible stems from the time I read it from cover to cover as a teen when I was bored (that was back when we only had three TV channels and no Internet), but I knew about Michal and her fate. I just find it hard to imagine that Gil and Kelly didn't. I also really wonder about "Christian" as a middle name - is that regularly used for girls in the US? Why would you pick a traditionally male middle name for your daughter in the first place?
Idk. Literally nothing about this story adds up. It's so strange and implausible.

At the time Michael was born they were not fully into the fundamentalist thought process. Yes, they went to church and were reading the Bible. But for the most part they were struggling young adults who were not fully invested in any one strategy. They had not really moved past rote memorization into any understanding of things. Gil grew up in a conservative Christian family but went pretty deep into it based on influence outside of the home. Kelly's father was a minister but her parents were divorced and she was raised apart from her siblings and father (except visits). Zach's name was relatively easy since they carried on the Gilven tradition. Michael was their first with the full on mindset of being Christian with a capital C.

These aren't people who have even a mild curiosity in life. They don't research things. They simply make a decision and then deal with the consequences while saying God is directing them. Their kids are carrying that on well.  

[GreenBeans]

17 minutes ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

Michael was their first with the full on mindset of being Christian with a capital C.

Literally, with Michael’s middle name being “Christian”. 😁

[SisterMom]

I'm a heathen who doesn't go to church so I have never heard the name Michal said out loud. How is pronounced? 

[Coconut Flan]

At our church, the same as Michael.

[justmy2cents]

3 hours ago, SisterMom said:

I'm a heathen who doesn't go to church so I have never heard the name Michal said out loud. How is pronounced? 

In my mind I pronounce it the way it sounds Hebrew: Me-Hull. Not that that’s the way they pronounced it.

[JDuggs]

I asked the same question over on the Rodrigues forum about the Keller families. Will any of the Florida based Bateses (Erin, Alyssa, Jackson) get whomped by Hurricane Idalia or are they all SE of the action?

I predict Medic Corps springing into action or at least flying a helicopter around and taking video of any damage and flooding.

[OHFL2009]

25 minutes ago, JDuggs said:

I asked the same question over on the Rodrigues forum about the Keller families. Will any of the Florida based Bateses (Erin, Alyssa, Jackson) get whomped by Hurricane Idalia or are they all SE of the action?

I predict Medic Corps springing into action or at least flying a helicopter around and taking video of any damage and flooding.

They're all southeast of the worst of it. They'll get some of the outer bands throughout the day, but nothing much more than a typical summer thunderstorm. I'm southwest of all of them and we've had some pretty gusty bands come through since late last night and throughout the morning, but unless a tornado pops up, it should be pretty manageable where they all are. 

[rebeccawriter01]

17 hours ago, justmy2cents said:

In my mind I pronounce it the way it sounds Hebrew: Me-Hull. Not that that’s the way they pronounced it.

I have heard it that way or even as close to Michelle (harder sounding) as it can be. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

There are multiple ways to pronounce Michal.

[Coconut Flan]

Indeed lots of choices and all our suggestions made this list:

 

[AussieKrissy]

On 8/29/2023 at 1:58 AM, JDuggs said:

Michael’s name was originally Michal. Then Kelly and Gil decided they didn’t like the biblical Michal, so they added the e since they could only add/change one letter without extra hassle/$.

I always wondered why they just did not add an "a" to the end of the name and have a weird spelling (buy people would get over) version of Micheala Mickayla ? I mean there is a precedent look at irish names that sound nothing like they are phonetically spelt at least Michala does look a bit like mick kayla or micheal ah. I think that would have been the best long term solution. 

[Kiki03910]

8 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

I always wondered why they just did not add an "a" to the end of the name and have a weird spelling (buy people would get over) version of Micheala Mickayla ? I mean there is a precedent look at irish names that sound nothing like they are phonetically spelt at least Michala does look a bit like mick kayla or micheal ah. I think that would have been the best long term solution. 

Yes, but you're smart and they are not.

Hateful beliefs disclaimer aside, just from watching Bringing up Bate$$$, Zach seems like an okay husband. Or am I missing something? I'm sure I'm missing something.

[gobucks]

10 hours ago, Kiki03910 said:

Yes, but you're smart and they are not.

Hateful beliefs disclaimer aside, just from watching Bringing up Bate$$$, Zach seems like an okay husband. Or am I missing something? I'm sure I'm missing something.

I think based on some of the sarcastic comments he has made over the years that he isn't completely engrained in his parents' BS. 

[rebeccawriter01]

11 hours ago, Kiki03910 said:

Yes, but you're smart and they are not.

Hateful beliefs disclaimer aside, just from watching Bringing up Bate$$$, Zach seems like an okay husband. Or am I missing something? I'm sure I'm missing something.

Originally Zach seemed a bit more progressive than his parents. In terms of a husband, he seems to adore Whitney. Politically he's always been a Republican type who has prayed on video for Trump to win.

However, if you dig a little below the surface there are clearly issues. I think they have swung more conservative and even borderline fundie in the past couple of years. Some back it up to the miscarriage Whitney had. I think her losing her father might have pushed them more in the fundamentalist direction. They aren't Gil and Kelly level. They aren't even Erin/Chad, Michaela/Brandon, or Tori/Bobby level. I thought that because he was the oldest and remembered before the family was quiverful and the sacrifices that had to be made, he would want something different for his kids. However, that doesn't seem to be the case.

[dawn9476]

I don't know how fundie Zach and Whitney are. The photoshoots they have done don't seem very fundie. They enrolled their kids in soccer. I think they are probably far more well off than Kelly and Gil were at Zach's age. I think they may engage in family planning, which is why they waited till they were done remolding their current house before getting pregnant with Lily. I would like to think that if they get pregnant again, and it's a boy, they say they are done having kids since they will have 3 of each.

Edited October 17, 2023 by dawn9476

[Melissa1977]

50 minutes ago, dawn9476 said:

I don't know how fundie Zach and Whitney are. The photoshoots they have done don't seem very fundie. They enrolled their kids in soccer. I think they are probably far more well off than Kelly and Gil were at Zach's age. I think they may engage in family planning, which is why they waited till they were done remolding their current house before getting pregnant with Lily. I would like to think that if they get pregnant again, and it's a boy, they say they are done having kids since they will have 3 of each.

They are modern looking fundie. But fundamentalist for sure, if fundamentalism means believing Bible is 100% true, their religion is the only right one and their country should be a theocracy. Zach quit his police job because the shifts made him lose church and family time.

Even in Gothard golden times, some families wore regular swimsuits and shorts and even went to school. Not Duggars or Bates, but others. Young Bates just adopted the fun part and kept the hateful beliefs.

[EmiSue]

6 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

They are modern looking fundie. But fundamentalist for sure, if fundamentalism means believing Bible is 100% true, their religion is the only right one and their country should be a theocracy. Zach quit his police job because the shifts made him lose church and family time.

Even in Gothard golden times, some families wore regular swimsuits and shorts and even went to school. Not Duggars or Bates, but others. Young Bates just adopted the fun part and kept the hateful beliefs.

They also homeschool with the same materials used by the more fundie siblings. When they use a non-fundie curriculum or send their kids to school (which so far no Bates has done and only Jill of the Duggars), I'll believe they're rethinking some things.