Bro Gary Hawkins 19: God Even Uses the Perforated People

[thoughtful]

6 hours ago, postscript said:

First he says Americans take church for granted, then he goes into his usual fantasy about church being forbidden - you can’t have it both ways, Gary.

Sure he can! Only the people who worship and believe exactly as Gary does will need to go into hiding to worship.

All of the other denominations, all of the other styles of Baptist, and all of the backslid Baptists that used to be OK in his eyes but are doing something he doesn't like, are "taking church for granted" and won't "take a stand" when the persecution comes.

6 hours ago, postscript said:

"Make sure someone don’t pull a gun on ya” - he’s in North Carolina, isn’t he?  I would be willing to bet nearly every household in this congregation owns at least one gun, for hunting if nothing else. Some of the congregants were probably carrying as he was speaking. I suppose in Gary’s mind not being allowed to pull a gun only applies to people of color

I think you are right.

On to the 1:15 service on Sunday 10/10. Why they had a service at that time of day, I have no idea. The video starts with Becky singing Preach On. I like a nice view of trash bins when listening to church music, don't you?

Spoiler

The camera doesn't swing over to the lectern, but we hear a voice (Daddy Danny, I think) announcing Ephesians chapter 6. Then the camera clunks over, and that's who it is.

Gary must have learned his  . . . um . . . technique of announcing the chapter, then yakking about crap (for way too long) while people turn pages from his father. Danny mumbles about being glad he's saved, getting old, with stiffness, aches and pains, and "Arthur Itis."

He says he and his wife are going to get another recliner and sit facing each other:

Spoiler

That way, they can pull each other up. He say's they'll have a song as they do it, and moans, "Uhhhh."

So, he doesn't understand basic physics - he got some laughs from the family.

But one day he'll get out of here, "get a glorifahd body, get ridda all this blubber, all the aches and pains, walk on the streeta gold."

He mumbles on. A lot is drowned out by the traffic, but I catch some church history: "Ah started the church in the trailer - single-wide trailer. An' we got t'growin'. An' mah wahf, we didn't have enough money to buy a washing machine, so she'd go to the  laundrette 'n' wash."

"An she come back an' ah tore out wonna th'bedrooms an' made that, 'cause we were growin' we needed more room. We had a pretty good crowd, y'know, in a trailer lahk 'at ah remember ah wrote a prayer letter out, ah averaged 27 and a half an' some of 'em, ah don't know if they were kiddin' or what, they couldn't figure the half out. Well, you all know - ya average."

And he reminisces on about their church's early days, and the firehouse across the street that had tugs-o-war with four-wheelers.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ephesians+6%3A10-14&version=KJV

He rambles about standing, and Carl Lackey, and how Brother Lackey once was man enough to apologize. Lackey had a message he preached against bitterness, and he apologized when he realized there wasn't actually any scripture to back it up. Really?

Some preachers still preach against "the beard," even though that's not Biblical. Neither the captions nor I got that:

Spoiler

until he talks about when Jesus was "crucified, they plucked out his beard." Well, the captions are still not getting it:

Spoiler

Some of them said that it was real short, just from not shaving for a day or two.

"But anyhow, that's not what ah - what a wanna say. We wanna stand. We wanna stand."

He drones on about right and wrong doctrine, how you can't get saved when you want to, but only when God "deals with" you, churches so against each other that "their termites cain't mix with the other termites from the other church amen," radio ministry, online Holiness Christians, New Age Baptists, and Ruckman.

He is even less coherent than Gary - the apple did not fall far. I like the termite line, though.

He says he once knew some "Baptist Briders." That's a new one on me. Also on the captions, although they do a bit better the second time:

Spoiler

Brian?

He tangles himself up in something about training up boys and girls, and how the boys are easier to train right than the girls. "You say wha? Because when they marry, y'all be careful of this, when they marry, if a girl, or woman, whichever you wanna say, when they git married, the won't stand near as good as a man will. An' they'll go down the drain."

"Now ah'm not on no Innernet or nothin' lahk that so ah can say, today . . . "

Um, Danny? Never mind. 

"Tracy, outta mah fahve children, had more . . . "

Someone must have pointed to the camera, to remind him that he was, in fact, on the Internet.

"Oh, ah am - ah'm ohn that. But ah'm gonna go on _________" (garbled). "Tracy had more Bahble preachin' - ah'm talkin' 'bout shotgun barrel straight. ah'm tellin' - wonna her favorites was Sammy Allen. Josh got t'hear him one tahm. She heard him many tahms."

He goes on about old-time preachers Tracy got to hear, how tough they were, etc.

"But then, whenever she got married, she went away. She's over there today, in a church that don't preach right."

He's glad that Sheila (his wife) "stayed with the stuff."

He goes on about how the devil will tempt your children - the Internets, the ol' stupid television, boo-bop music.

"If ya ain't careful, when they git out, they'll be boo-boppin'. Now ah wanna stop an' just let that settle in . . . just stop. . . if it's wrong, it's wrong. Miz Hawkins, it is wrong - you an' ah know it. It don't need to be played in our house under any - not even nothin' CLOSE because what it'll do, it'll eat it's way out, it'll eat it's way out, an' the next thing ya know, it'll take control."

Sounds dangerous. Good thing there's no such thing as "boo-bop music." There's be-bop, hip-hop, pop, and Buxtehude, but no boo-bop.

Danny says he was "under the control of rock and roll music" at one time, and that's why "what little harr ah got's kinked up there, that never got totally straightened out, an' it's ungodly, an' it's outta Hell."

He means the music, not his hair.

I think. 😁

That's about half of the message. I think I shall leave Brother Danny and his few curly hairs and finish this later.

[Xan]

Holy shit.  When Jesus was crucified they plucked out his beard.  Girls and women are more likely to go down the drain.  And you have to watch out for boo-bopping music.  Maybe we're just lucky that Gary seems to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.  

It's maybe the first time I've ever felt sympathy for old Gary.  If you have limited education, if you aren't really that bright to begin with, and if you have this guy as your dad, you just don't stand a chance.

[Flossie]

14 hours ago, griffin said:

He always says he won't fly and he only has a "burden for amurica".  He just won't admit he can't afford it. I'd love to see what would happen the second someone offered him free airline tickets.

Probably tell Becky to resell them.

[postscript]

Well, it’s easy to tell where Gary got his uneducated opinions, his folksy storytelling about unimportant personal topics, and his garbled word patterns. Didn’t help that I was reading this first thing in the morning. I initially read “Daddy Danny” as “Donald Duck” and “glorifahed body” as “girlfriend body.” 

I like “boo-bop music,” though. Perhaps it’s bebop with a Halloween theme. 

[thoughtful]

Yes, Gary got a lot from his father, then made it all much louder and faster. We have heard Danny preach before - I know I've recapped at least one message of his.

Becky is selling Santa bottles - tsk, tsk.

Spoiler

Back to Danny's preaching, on 10/10.

He goes on for a while about evil music and the old-time preachers who stood against it. He says they need to be an example to their children, and something about a testimony. And then he gives us an insight into his evil past, and a recent revisit to an old haunt.

I think.

Maybe.

Here's what I hear:

"Say, what's it been? Forty-some years ago, it used to been if they'da seen me pull in that liquor store, they knew ah was headed out t'some, uh, Southern Comfort or something ah couldn't bah the expensive stuff ah had t'bah the cheaper stuff, an' anyway ah wouldn't go near that place, an' th'other day ah went in an almost _______ "(garbled) "turning aroun'. Ah got outta there as quick as ah can, because some mah people back in the day said 'Ah knew ________'" (garbled). "Nah, ah won't ________" (garbled). "Ah want nothin' in the worl' t'do with it. Thank God ah got awork from that kanda stuff."

I'm picturing him using the parking lot of a strip mall to get turned around on the road, then remembering or noticing that a liquor store he used to go to was there (or knowing full well it was there, and just wanting to use it for dramatic message fodder).

But that's a guess.

He burbles on about taking a stand, letting kids see what's right and wrong. Playing ball is OK.

"Y'all heard me say it - ah thought ah was gonna be a New York Yankee when ah came up. Ah been in a tobacca field with mah dad, an' if ah gotta chance, ah pick up clods an' throw 'em - was gonna be a pitcher. An' ah had mah mahnd ohn baseball. Ah had mah mahnd, that's where mah mahnd was. Be plowin' with ol' _______ (? sounds like "Mahull")  mah horse,  an' ah'd have a mahnd ohn baseball."

It's a shame Danny didn't have what it takes,  because playing baseball probably would have suited him better than trying to be a preacher.

He goes on about never having played on a ball team, other than "one game of basketball with the Boy Scouts at Walnut Cove. Heheh - them boys is all tall boys."

Listening on, I realize that was sarcasm - I think the Walnut Cove boys were short.

He tells them (allowing that they've all probably heard this story before - I'll bet they have!) that they only scored 2 points in the whole game, and he was the one who got that. "When ya come up, start, y'know, the center? Ah was the center 'cause ah'm the tallest one. An' ah jump as hah's ah could . . ."

I think the captions are trying to remind him that this is supposed to be a Godly message, not a sports nostalgia show:

Spoiler

And he goes on about how he hit Charles Moefield (who he just ran into the other day) on the elbow, and how he doesn't "feel hard at Daddy" or Momma about the fact that he never had his chance as an athlete, and always had to work.

"Ah don't give a flip what it is - whether it's ball or whether it - it don't matter! We don't have tahm t'go over all the differen' things. It's God first. It's God first."

Gary amens loudly.

Danny also rattles off the "we're supposed t'act raht, live raht, spit raht," so we know where Gary got that. I don't know where they got the "spit right" - I've never been able to find any reference to it as an old-time or Southern expression - but maybe it came from another preacher, and the original guy meant it lightheartedly. Gary and Danny say it quite seriously.

Rambling on about living right and keeping a good attitude, he says that Daniel (a grandson?) liked his job at Bojangles, but "ah could tell, a difference come, he didn't lahk it as much," and then he heard that some customers had gotten "plimb ugly an' mean an' said things that we wouldn't wanna say here tonaht at all."

He warns them never to do that to a waiter - he doesn't think Daniel would do it, but they might spit on your food. You need to be nice, and polite.

"Ah lahk t'stand uh, ohn a thing, ah'm tryin' t'figure out how ah can ______" (garbled) "Forsyth County ________"(garbled), "they took mah thousand dollars ah don' lahk it. Ah wanna keep the raht attitude about it, but ah wanna let them know ah am not for socialism or communism. You say 'What's the difference?' The only difference ah know of is the way them two spells. They're pretty well the same thing."

Gary says "yeah."

Danny says he can have a right attitude if he'll "pray up" beforehand, and ask God to help him be sweet. People may make fun of you for being different, but they'll come to you when they need someone to pray for them.

Living in these perilous times makes him understand the scripture much better.

"An' it is per'lous tahms. People don't, hey, everywhere. They, they, they're more in pleasures. One went, an' ah won't say go whar, but one went last week t'what was supposed t'be a homecomin', t'preach, an' ah asked him how it went, an' he said well, wadn't nobody there they'd all went, y'know, they didn't have many members, but they'd gohn - they'd gohn out on a camp - uh, left with the camper. Amen. Lovers of pleasure more'n lovers of God."

And then he just says a bunch of syllables - I think it's supposed to be something about how, when he was at a church called Shining Light, and other past times, nobody every went out of town on Sunday, because church.

But that's a guess.

Then he fumfs on about obedience to God and soul-winning, and how the devil wants to take away the seed you've sowed before it gets watered.

"Ah soaked mah salad seed th'other day an' then the Lord watered them, an' ya know what's gonna happen? They start sproutin' ah may see some as early as in the mornin' an' so, but if it didn't get no water, ah think salad t'say, if it don't get no water, within ten days, might as well fly it up and start over."

I think he's using actual seeds (for Creasy salad, no doubt) as a metaphor for soul-winning. He says he goes out to see if the seeds he sowed got watered, and if people are going to come to the meetings and get saved.

Then he goes off on another series of syllables, which I think are being strung together to say something about work.

"Ah gotta settle down an' quit workin' so much, amen. Ya ever had a preacher t'have that kinda problem? Most of 'em don't wanna work. Ah have a problem, ah've - all - if a man come t'me an' says 'What's been yo' biggest problem in yo' ministry?' Work. Work. Ah let it. Ah let it. Ah thought, we needed t'do it, we needed t'get that house you remember, so we could - one thing, so they'd be comfortable, but the other so they could git the loan. An' ah thought, boy, now whenever ah git done with that, ah'm gonna take out tahm 'cause y'know, drahvin' a bus six hours a day, that's raht smart. But ah wanna take out tahm an' do more study, an' a meeting, ah went  t'workin' ohn that. An' so now ah'm tahd up thar, an' ah need to work in mah yard an' mah garden. But ah've got to - what ah've got to do is, ah've got to take tahm to study, and go over Bahble doctrine."

And he goes on to say that, like regular food, spiritual food needs to be taken at regular intervals. Then he starts talking about how much longer he might live - he's about to turn 73. He babbles on about various relatives and when they got saved - between the traffic and his wandering mind, I can't follow it.

I can tell that some of it is the story that Gary tells, about the man who prayed while in the tobacco packing house for his wayward son, Bobby, the town drunk ("him and Wayne Sizemore"  - I guess Gary picked up his gossiping habit from Daddy, as well). And Bobby ran past as fast as he could, because he couldn't handle hearing it. But Bobby got saved after his father died. Danny thinks it's because his father was in Heaven, praying for him.

"Them strawberries if ah ever do git 'em, ah went down there this mornin' an' ah did have one or two ah ate 'em amen it was good. But if ah never get 'em ah can go over there t'Winn Dixie or whatever an' bah me some it wouldn't be as good but ah kin git bah on that but ahd need t'put tahm in God's word, an' tahm in prayer, an' tahm in visitation."

He yammers on about a period of time when he drove two hours to go to a Wednesday night service, then again to go soul-winning on Thursday nights, and he wasn't even a preacher then. He rambles about not needing your riches, brick or vinyl house, or your Volkswagen in Heaven.

He blabs about Hell, and we hear Gary let out an "amen" that was clearly also a yawn. Danny solemnly tells them how their unsaved relatives will be brought up from Hell for the judgment ("that ain't gonna be like uh - Christmas dinner"). Besides the idea that those who "coulda got 'em in" will have their blood running off of their hands, he also has a theory that the ones who could have brought the unsaved to Jesus will have to be the ones to cast them into the lake of fire.

"Mommas, daddies, brothers, sisters, neighbors, cousins, people in Africa . . . terrible tahm."

Edited November 6, 2021 by thoughtful
riffle

[Ozlsn]

4 hours ago, thoughtful said:

he also has a theory that the ones who could have brought the unsaved to Jesus will have to be the ones to cast them into the lake of fire.

What?! That is nowhere in the Bible. Stop making crap up here Gary's dad!!

Honestly he makes Gary look coherent and vaguely knowledgeable.

[waltraute]

On 11/2/2021 at 6:00 PM, thoughtful said:

Sounds dangerous. Good thing there's no such thing as "boo-bop music." There's be-bop, hip-hop, pop, and Buxtehude, but no boo-bop.

Never in my born days did I imagine I would stumble onto a mention of Buxtehude on a FJ thread - and a Bro Gary one at that.

And this folks, is the reason I got up this morning.

[thoughtful]

As the video from the evening of 11/11 begins, Becky is singing Somebody Go Get God, under the tent, at Old Paths Baptist Church and Dragway.

Gary comes up, greets them, and tells them they have "gained one per service." I assume he means person. Also, he and Becky went to the flea market and a yard sale to invite people.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis+6%3A1-6&version=KJV

KJV:  And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Bro Gary Version: And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every immigration of the thoughts of his heart was very evil continually.

Gary re-reads verses 3 and 6, then says "Ah got t'thinkin' about this even just last - yesterday sometahm after church an' got t'thinkin' an' this gohn go a different way but ah believe this is the way the Lord would have us t'go, an' the title of the message is What Makes God Sick? What Makes God Sick?

Well, it was a short journey, at least.  I doubt there will be much that's new.

If God was sick back in Genesis, imagine how sick He feels now. The White House needs to be cleaned out, but so does the church house, he didn't bring revival in his briefcase, each person must choose it, Jeremaiah said we are wicked and desperately wicked, preachin' ain't never been popular.

Yep - all old Garythought. The screaming is disturbing, after listening to his quiet daddy.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis+3%3A1-7&version=KJV

Ah, the substil serpent. Again, old stuff follows (and some is inserted between verses). It makes God sick when people listen to the devil.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+samuel+11%3A6-15&version=KJV

Gary pronounces Uriah  several ways: "You are," "Your are," or "Yourarah."

Another thing that God's sick of is us hiding our sins. He screams about that for a while.

He claims that, when he preaches on sin in churches, some people think the pastor told him something specific about them. But he doesn't need the pastor to tell him, because "ah'm God called and God sent and God ha - God reveals it t'me amen? Matter of fact, ah even tell the preacher, listen hey, if that's all you got to do is to talk bad about yer members, either you need t'git ridda yer members or you just need t'go  ohn down the road, amen?"

Sure you do, Brave Sir Gary.

Proverbs 29:18, first half: Where there is no vision, the people perish

It makes God sick when people don't have a vision.

Gary said he preached in Delaware for the first time "the other day." I don't remember that - maybe it was without a video, on 10/7, 8, or 9. He says he's now preached in 30 states. His vision is bringing churches to all 50 states.

Gary says that, if God ever gives him another tent, he wants a red, white and blue one. And then he screams stuff you've all heard before for a while, about his burden for America, having a vision, going out soul winning, people not wanting to come to church because they want to hide their sin (oops, that should have been in the previous section, Gary).

Galatians 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

Something else God's sick of - people who think they're somebody.

So, God is OK with Emily Dickinson?

Gary doesn't want to be on a pedestal.

Well, at least he's learned that it's a pedestal, not a footstool. Well, almost - later, he says "pedestool."

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=galatians+6%3A8&version=KJV

He forgets to say what makes God sick, but he does get sow and reap in the right order, as he repeats the same idea over and over.

He talks about how much fun it is to lead people to God and see them get saved, and runs through the numbers of people who have gotten saved (by, Jesus, of course, but Gary was there!) since August.

Revelation 4:2 - Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

"Ah think God's a little upset with people that used t'be on fahr for God now they've lost their first love."

Lots of familiar junk follows. In Canada, they're closing churches and arresting pastors, and it's coming "raht here, to the good ol' USA or America."

And he does his crap about "the Covid," and lists lots of people who died of lots of different things, going back years. So nobody should have closed their churches or taken any precautions, I guess.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation+22%3A18-19&version=KJV

Gary stumbles through this, makes sure they know that verse 19 does not mean you can lose your salvation, and goes off about some guy on Facebook.

"It's a sad day today that we haveta make sure today when we talk about the worda God, we haveta say King - an' ah don't say King James version, it's a King James bahble,  amen. An' he blocked me, because wha? Well, because ah'm idiot, 'cause ah ain't studied Hebrew, Greek, an' ah ain't studied all the resta that stuff. Ah'm gonna say somethin' to ya. You can know all the Hebrew an' Greek you wohnt. You wanna know it, how we - go in the house, go in yer house, go in the school, wherever it is, fahnd you a Greek thing, an' study it. But ah'manna tell you whatchu kin do with it with me, you kin keep it t'yerself, 'cause ah'm not innerested. Ah got an English-speakin' Bahble an' that's what ah need today."

Your Bible speaks? I thought it was a book, not a device, Gary.

Oh, and can the "Greek thing" I study be a piece of spanikopita?  Yum.

Gary says he's not in a "click," and he "don't drink the Kool-Aid. It'll take some of ya a whahl to catch on t'that."

He gets on the evils of contemporary Christian music, and the revival he was at with the musical group he didn't like. "Ah wisht ah'da gone an' set on the commode 'til they got done amen. Ah really do. They was dancin' on the stage, makin' funna God. Ah told Becky you better pray ah don't make a fool of mahself or we'll get run off tonaht, that's OK."

Gary tells them that "a preacher friend in New York" plays the violin (that would be Henry Kocinski, Gary), who notices a man who sometimes starts "pattin' his foot."

"Now ah wanna say somethin' to ya, ah'm not gonna say it's wrong t'pat yer foot, ah'm not gonna say it's wrong t'clap to a certain extent, but not to feed the flesh. But he says 'Ah just completely stop playin' an' go do somethin' else.'"

That Henry - so very careful not to inspire the flesh with his fleshly violin.

He tells the story of the guy who gave God a last name in Aldi again. This time, the man was back to "chasing" the woman, Gary is calm but strong in the story, and finishes by telling the man "best thing for you to do is get outta the store." He doesn't say anything about the man's reaction this time.

"Ah got mah Confederate flag back on the fronta mah car. HAYMEN! It's a Confederate flag, not a rebel flag, amen? But ah wahr mah Trump 2024 - ah don't know if he's gonna run or not, ah lahk Trump, a lahk him a whole lot better'n th' rest of 'em amen. Ah even lahk him better'n ah do Pence, ah hope Pence never gits back inta that junk."

A guy told him he had "plenty a guts" to wear that hat, and Gary told him that, in Yankee Land people came from one side of the store to the other just to tell him they like his hat. "Ah'm not givin' a commercial for Trump, what ah'm sayin' is some of us oughta get some gutsss."

Gary's not taking the signs off of his vehicle, "'cause ah'm plannin' on dahin' for God."

He announces Luke 23:36, reads it, then starts mumbling about it not being the verse he wanted. He wanted the one with the two "male factors," one on each side.

That starts in verse 39, Gary - did you draw or read a 6 for the 9? Somebody says "39," but Gary's gone on to talk about how it makes him sick that people reject Jesus.

I thought your theme was what makes God sick, not you, Gary.

So far, nothing funny had come up in the captions, but Gary gives them one more crack at the name that has been eluding them. "Ah'm gonna say this an' ah'm done. Oliver B. Green usedta take . . ."

Spoiler

It's the story about the time Green didn't get good responses from the crowd, and how the spot where he set up his tent has been cursed ever since. Well, Gary doesn't use the word cursed, he says no business or project has ever succeeded on that spot, and when God gets tired of something, "He turns it over to a reptobate mahnd."

"If ah wasn't saved, ah'd make sure ah was saved."

Edited November 4, 2021 by thoughtful

[Xan]

I did go look at a bit of Daddy Danny's sermon.  He's a whackadoodle but he's easier for me to listen to than Gary.  Danny is quieter and more sincere.  I also appreciate that Danny seems to have a bus driving job so he's not quite the grifter than his son has become.  (Did Gary try driving a school bus because his dad did?  I'm beginning to think that Gary doesn't have an original bone in his body.)

11 hours ago, thoughtful said:

Gary re-reads verses 3 and 6, then says "Ah got t'thinkin' about this even just last - yesterday sometahm after church an' got t'thinkin' an' this gohn go a different way but ah believe this is the way the Lord would have us t'go, an' the title of the message is What Makes God Sick? What Makes God Sick?

I wouldn't think it would be possible to make God sick.  If He's omnipotent, He is above sickness.  I guess Gary means "what disgusts God" and, again, if God is in control all the time, well... I guess that's on Him.  

If I never hear Gary refer to himself again as being "on the commode", I'll be happy.  I understand that any music that makes you feel like moving gives Gary the creeps but I doubt that any deity worth his salt would be against enjoying something as wonderful as music.  That's about like saying "God made grass but he doesn't want you to walk on it".  

I found his comment about Pence to be interesting.  I guess Gary is so full-on Trumpy now that he's ready to slam the very religious Pence for not overturning the election.  It appears that a good portion of Gary's sermons are political rants now anyway.  

I hope Gary's stupid van with the rebel flag continues to break down and leaves him stranded on the side of the road.  

[thoughtful]

On 11/4/2021 at 11:21 AM, Xan said:

I also appreciate that Danny seems to have a bus driving job so he's not quite the grifter than his son has become.  (Did Gary try driving a school bus because his dad did?  I'm beginning to think that Gary doesn't have an original bone in his body.)

Working in the automotive branch of the public schools seems to be a family tradition. Josh works as a mechanic and drives a fuel truck for the Stokes County schools.

https://www.stokes.k12.nc.us/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=1675951&type=d&pREC_ID=1828059

I don't know for sure if this is her, but it looks like Krystal (I think that's Josh's wife) drives (drove?) a school bus for Forsyth County. From 2019:

Quote

A school bus driver has been charged after being involved in a traffic crash Tuesday morning.

The crash happened around 8:10 a.m. near Meadowlark Drive and Century Oaks Lane.

According to the Winston-Salem/Forsyth County Schools district, the crash happened after the school bus driver, identified as 31-year-old Krystal Hawkins, dropped off students.

No students were on board at the time of the crash.

https://www.wxii12.com/article/school-bus-crashes-into-brick-barrier-in-winston-salem/26867792

How Gary got the job in South Dakota, I don't know. They just might have been desperate.

On 11/4/2021 at 11:21 AM, Xan said:

I wouldn't think it would be possible to make God sick.  If He's omnipotent, He is above sickness.

I know. Gary has spoken before of God "pukin' His guts out" and "vomicking" over the banister of Heaven.

On 10/14, the video starts with Josh and Caleb singing.

Spoiler

Josh mumbles that they should shake hands, or fist bump, or whatever: "Just don't kiss each other." He watches glumly while we hear people greeting one another. As he did the last time I saw him, in the kitchen sanctuary, he looks and sounds bored and mildly annoyed.

He calls for their attention to prayer requests, and asks if there are any new ones. Gary pipes up: "Ah got a phone call about mah truck today pray for the Lord will be done ah git that thing back up an' goin' bah the end of the year."

He gets some other requests, including calling on the kids by name, in his bored   tone of voice. I don't know if the kids raise their hands, or if he just knows (or has told them - several are his kids, I think) they have to ask for a prayer.

I can't hear the details over the traffic. He has someone say a general prayer, then says, "Choir." A bunch of kids and Caleb come up and sing a few songs.

After they sing There's a Record Book, Caleb says that, "where he's been workin' at," they were asking him how he knows he can't lose his salvation. He says he knows his name is written in the book in the blood of the lamb. "I heard a preacher say one time, whenever blood gets uh - you know, somethin' happens with blood, it dries up, you cain't get the stain out, an' I thank God that whenever He wrote mah name in the booka life, He wrote it in His own blood, an' it stained forever."

Caleb is playing the guitar pretty well, and, while he has some pitch issues, he sings much better than his father. He also sings with expression.

There is some shouting from the congregation during the song, and complimentary comments after. Then a man calls our what sounds like "Alraht, Brother Jacob, let 'er rip." This man comes up - I think it may be Gene Gouge, who has preached under Gary's tent before.

Spoiler

He is a screamer. Don't any of these guys just talk? Between the mumblers and the screamers, is there no happy medium, no "Goldilocks thought that voice was just right" way of preaching?

He invites them to an event put on by Return America. If they went, I hope they didn't eat any fruit or vegetables:

Spoiler

He rants for a while about this event, and how they'll be standing up for all of the crap these people usually imagine they are losing, most of which involves sticking their noses in other people's private lives, pretending they are persecuted, and hinting at violence.

"If God doesn't do something in the next year, it won't be America the free, it'll be America the communist nation."

Captions:

Spoiler

 

He spends the next six minutes advertising this event, with end times crap thrown in.

Again, acting like they are in great danger from . . . somebody , he yells about how he's not going to live his life in fear.

 Ah done been told, because ah was in DC on January 6 . . . ah don't know where this thing's goin' to . . . and uh but anyway ah may be in a little bitta trouble. If ah disappear, then you know what happened to me."

Gary laughs.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans+4%3A1-8&version=KJV

As Pastor Insurrectionist reads, and I follow along, I'm wondering what he is saying about something yellow in verse three. Then I realize that, without a pause or looking up, he was saying "yellow pen, yellow hahlahter, awantcha t'hahlaht that."

He asks for a prayer between his reading and his message - Gary obliges.

More later.

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by thoughtful
riffle

[thoughtful]

Pastor Gouge (?), the visiting insurrectionist, finally gets into his actual message on 10/14, on the subject What Saith the Scripture.

He shrieks, incredibly loudly, about how God is speaking, in fact, God is screaming, through the scripture. He has that TV-evangelist way of yelling "God."

He also paces back and forth, close enough to the camera that he looms suddenly from one side, crosses, disappears, and appears again, over and over. It's figuratively nauseating, and I think it could be literally nauseating to some people!

He just goes on and on, and says absolutely nothing other than finding dozens of ways to say the bible is true.

Then he screeches about old-time preachers who got the doctrine right, and lists a bunch of them, and does a riff mocking modern preachers in pink shirts and blue jeans and flipflops.

The men under the tent are yelling and laughing - Gary is having a blast.

The screaming continues - he says he's going to cover about 11 doctrines. He shrieks that, if you are saved, you are "in Chrast," over and over.

He screams his salvation date - June 26, 1975. While he's caterwauling about how he saw the flames of Hell, Gary's Donald Trump phone ring goes off.

They both sound like Hell, to me.

"One of the things we have in Chrast - number one, we have justification. We're justifahd. You know what the word justifahd means? Just. As. If. Ah'd. Never sinned."

That's about as corny as it gets, Gene. He screams on about being justified as going beyond being forgiven, using an imaginary scenario - if he smashed Caleb's "GITar," and Caleb forgave him, it still wouldn't justify his having done it, and wouldn't replace the guitar.

Next, "we have imputation." He squeals "God imputed our sins on Chrast, and God imputed the righteousness and the holiness of Chrast on you 'n' me."

He warns the young people that the sins he committed before he got saved 47 years ago (I think you're rounding up there, pastor) still haunt him. He screams about how his life was ruined, it was wrecked, then he gets quieter and babbles (to himself, I think - I mean, it's all clearly fake as can be, but I think the person he's pretending to address is his screaming self) "Now, don't don't don't don't whsst whsst whsst calm down, calm down, don't shout no mo'."

That is followed by a rhythmic, super-fast riff asking if they remember when they got saved, when Jesus passed by, when you put your faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Chrast, ending with a triumphant:

Spoiler

Hey, the captions got most of it right.

And he's back to screeching at the top of his lungs again.

Third doctrine - propitiation. The captions have some trouble with that one.

Spoiler

And we get several minutes of the blood of Jesus. Like Gary, he shriek-recites some of the lyrics of Nothing But the Blood and There is a Fountain Filled With Blood.

Then he imitates imaginary people who he wants to mock for various things. At least that's somewhat quieter.

Before he gets to the next doctrine, he lists the ones he's already mentioned. I have no idea what he was saying here (it sounded like "ah lahk guessin'" to me), but the captions say:

Spoiler

The next two doctrines are election and predestination.

"Thank God, 47 years ago, ah won the election."

Of course, he has to make sure they know what he doesn't mean by predestination, so he barks, "Bah the way, ah am not a Calvinist."

The captions:

Spoiler

Hey, Gary, your hero here doesn't give God a last name, but he seems to be giving Him a first name!

Spoiler

While explaining the idea that Godly "election" is like voting, he says "Bah the way ah didn't vote for Bahden."

Gee, what a shock. The captions:

Spoiler

Oh, that caption program - full of mischief.

He lists the doctrines again, and next is salvation. He does some more super-fast chants, some imitating people in his mind who have it wrong.

He uses a chair as an example of believing, most of it off camera. But I think his point is that he "believes in" the chair while he's standing next to it, but he "believes on" it when he sits down and trusts it to hold him.

He lists all of the "tion" words again, and adds confrontation. He says it's never been easy to serve Jesus, spends some time mocking the people in his head again, then rattles off some stuff about what sinners we all are.

He says that, in 2022, seven years of plenty will be over, then seven years of famine will come, and "you better hope an' pray the Lord takes us out before seven."

He goes off on the churchgoers who claim they'd die for Jesus, but won't give to missions or do anything for God. "You got ladies gonna dah for Jesus cain't put a decent dress on when she go to Walmart."

And he screams and burbles about fighting for faith and suffering for Jesus, rattles off the list again, and adds separation.

After another shriek-fest about how Jesus died on the old rugged cross for you, and how serving him is the least you can do, he mocks social media for a while. He also warns them not to put pictures of their children online. "Do you not know that there's predators, perverts, pedophiles?"

He finally gets to the point about separation, which is the usual about how Christians should dress, what they should read, watch and listen to, and carrying a Bible and tracts around.

Next is condemnation. They don't have eternal condemnation, because they're saved, but . . . well, he never gets to his point. He's telling the young people to hold  up some "stuff" and look at it. Just as he asks "You know what that is?" the video cuts off.

I think I need some hibernation. Good night.

[Hane]

Wow. I was about to say, “I don’t think ‘impute’ means what you think it means,” then I found this: 

[Alisamer]

On 10/29/2021 at 8:50 PM, Joyster said:

 Then he's heading home for Thanksgiving and after that he's back in Conway, North Carolina. 

Conway NC or Conway, South Carolina? He usually goes to the South Carolina one, which is not far from the beach ocean.

On 11/1/2021 at 11:38 PM, thoughtful said:

He reads Matthew 6:33 - But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Now I have a song stuck in my head. 

On 11/2/2021 at 9:00 PM, thoughtful said:

He goes on about how the devil will tempt your children - the Internets, the ol' stupid television, boo-bop music.

"If ya ain't careful, when they git out, they'll be boo-boppin'. Now ah wanna stop an' just let that settle in . . . just stop. . . if it's wrong, it's wrong. Miz Hawkins, it is wrong - you an' ah know it. It don't need to be played in our house under any - not even nothin' CLOSE because what it'll do, it'll eat it's way out, it'll eat it's way out, an' the next thing ya know, it'll take control."

Anyone remember the movie Trick or Treat (link to Wikipedia article)? Where Gene Simmons and Ozzy Osborne had cameos (I think Ozzy plays a televangelist preaching against metal music!)? Where a major rock star dies and then comes back from the dead by people playing his music? That's what I imagine when they're talking about the "boo-bop" music "taking control". (This wasn't "boo-bop" whatever that is - the music for the rock star was done by Fastway.)

I need to watch that movie again sometime. I remember the music being pretty good, at least.

Trivia - the movie was filmed in North Carolina!

[postscript]

19 hours ago, thoughtful said:

Then he screeches about old-time preachers who got the doctrine right, and lists a bunch of them, and does a riff mocking modern preachers in pink shirts and blue jeans and flipflops.

The men under the tent are yelling and laughing - Gary is having a blast.

I'm sure he is.  This guy is right up his alley, with his love of the old-time preachers.

19 hours ago, thoughtful said:

11 doctrines

11?  That's a nice round number. Wonder why he picked it as opposed to 10?  We'll be here all night.

19 hours ago, thoughtful said:

While he's caterwauling about how he saw the flames of Hell, Gary's Donald Trump phone ring goes off.

There's a sense of appropriateness here. Not sure if it means Trump will be burning in the flames of Hell (which I don't believe in, BTW, but if there is a Hell, Trump definitely belongs there), or if the torments of Hell will include endless loops of Donald Trump yammering. 

19 hours ago, thoughtful said:

"Thank God, 47 years ago, ah won the election."

Of course, he has to make sure they know what he doesn't mean by predestination, so he barks, "Bah the way, ah am not a Calvinist."

First of all, "I won the election" sounds like he was running for some sort of local office. Second, I can't figure out the difference between his certainty that he's destined for Heaven because he accepted Jesus, and the Calvinist certainty that God has already chosen those who will be saved. I'm sure there's some hair-splitting argument I'm missing, but darned if I can figure out what it is (and I'm trained in hyper-analyzing legal language and fact patterns).

19 hours ago, thoughtful said:

He says that, in 2022, seven years of plenty will be over, then seven years of famine will come, and "you better hope an' pray the Lord takes us out before seven."

Huh? Where does he get this? I don't recall seven years of plenty (or seven years of anything) starting in 2015.   If anything, these last two years have been harder than most for nearly everyone. 

Interesting reading the recaps of this guy and Daddy Danny. They present it a bit differently, but their message is exactly the same as what Gary repeats ad nauseam. There is a lot one can study and ponder in the Scriptures (any Scripture, not just the King James Version), but these guys can't seem to get past "Believe in Jesus, or you'll burn in Hell." 

[Joyster]

9 hours ago, Alisamer said:

Conway NC or Conway, South Carolina? He usually goes to the South Carolina one, which is not far from the beach ocean.

My bad.  It's Conway, South Carolina.  He told the congregation on 11/3 that he'll be there for the month of December in their own place.  He will be in Indiana by tomorrow (Saturday). 

[thoughtful]

 

On 11/3/2021 at 11:58 PM, waltraute said:

Never in my born days did I imagine I would stumble onto a mention of Buxtehude on a FJ thread - and a Bro Gary one at that.

I think my brain is what you get when a kid is raised by a father who loves multi-syllabic names, learns to love them herself, and then goes on to study music. 

I'm sure it's just coincidence that Dietrich Buxtehude had that wonderful name and wrote complex Baroque organ music - he could have been named Jan Jensen. But I like the way his name seems to match up with his music.

On 10/15, under the tent at the church of Daddy, Gary, Becky and Jacob sing The Sun's Coming Up, then Gary gets his towel-wrapped Bible, goes to the pulpit, and says "Well, praise the Lord, it's Frahdee naht amen. Some of ya git a break, ah don't." Then he looks up from his page turning and grins at them.

Oh, Gary, you dishonest shit, your entire schedule is a break.

No patter for the congregation to turn pages this time - he just keeps repeating 1 Corinthians chapter 16. As always, they get plenty of time to find the chapter, but he doesn't announce the starting verse (excuse me, "verses") until a split-second before he starts reading.  It never seems to occur to him that this makes things difficult for his listeners, especially when he starts on a verse that's very far along in the chapter.

As it happens, this time he is starting in verse 1:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+corinthians+16%3A1-14&version=KJV

His voice is stressed, without expression or meaning, and of course there are lots of errors. He has trouble with Galatia, saying "Galayteeahyah." I guess it doesn't occur to him that it's the place the Galatians lived, and that he can pronounce the name of the chapter called Galatians.

KJV: And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.
Bro Gary Version: An' when ah come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, then will ah send to bring you liberty - uh, libertary in unto Jerusalem.

KJV: Now I will come unto you, when I shall pass through Macedonia: for I do pass through Macedonia.
BGV: An' now ah will come unto you, when ah shall pass through Macedonia: so do - do - pass - so for I do so through - through - pass through Macedonia.

He re-reads verse 13, then yells briefly about standing fast and not giving up, before announcing his title: Git Some Guts. Git Some Guts.

He yells about how sensitive people are now, no matter what you preach. At one point, he says "You can preach on 'Jesus loves you' and people get _______ " It sounds like he's not sure whether he wants the next word to be "offended" or "upset" - he ends up with a mishmash of the two, and the captions hear it as:

Spoiler

Well, isn't that the point?

Gary refers to the previous evening's guest preacher as Gene Gibbs. I don't think so, Gary - I found a Gene Gibbs who is a Seventh Day Adventist preacher, and this guy. I'm pretty sure it was Gene Gouge.

Gary's "gonna stand." So, what noble tenet of Christianity is Gary going to defend? "Steve said a whahl ago whenever he was here a whahl ago, talkin' 'bout those shots he said if they come an'  demand you t'take the shot, they gonna shoot - give you th'shots raht there, ah said 'They better have their gun, 'cause they have to blow mah brains out first.'"

Spoiler

"Y'say wha? Ah'm standin' for mah rahts, amen?

Captions:

Spoiler

Gary, the thing about Nicki Minaj's cousin's friend's balls wasn't true - relax.

And he goes on about how he will choose what to put in his body. Screen shot this time is not for something in the captions, but for the juxtaposition of these words with the beauty that is Gary:

Spoiler

Gary, I am a fat person, too. And I've learned to be careful about giving people incredibly easy straight lines for obvious punch lines. Let's face it - neither of us looks like someone who is super-careful about what we put in our "temple."

But at least I had the sense to get vaccinated!

He screams about how "Joe's done every - no let me rephrase that - Obama's done everything" to destroy the country.

"You know what, bein' a martyr, James was one. Ah mean, you know many different ones was martyrs, listen, hey,  John the Baptist was a martyr. He had his head cut off.

The captions can't quite figure that one out:

Spoiler

Gary, you have created many bizarre images in my mind. But I think this one may take the cake:

Gary goes on to say that he doesn't know what they used to cut off John's head. But I bet he's thought about it a lot.

He screams about "gittin' guts," over and over, and says he should have the right to defend himself, his family, and his property. "Ya say wha? 'Cause God give us th'rahts.

Whose God, captions?

Spoiler

He spews some more angry nastiness about various denominations, then says Baptists who won't "stand" are just as bad - the usual.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=job+1%3A1&version=KJV

He's pretty close to pronouncing eschewed correctly, this time.

The number one thing you have to get guts about is hating sin.

The usual screams follow, and he adds this theory about sin "It makes you sick real quick-like - makes your body go down real quick-like."

Gary, does that include "sins" like getting vaccines, wearing clothing that doesn't cover every inch of you, not going to church every day, loving and being loved (regardless of gender or marital status), refusing to beat children, getting an education about something other than Jesus, enjoying music other than "psalms hymns an' spir't'l songs," and dancing?

Some of the things you consider sin are pretty harmless, even beneficial.

Do these people really live in a world where everyone is either completely lost to drugs and alcohol, fistfights, sleeping around, chain-smoking and petty thievery, or "saved" churchgoers? Is there nobody in their lives who's just living life happily and harmlessly? Or do they just make up this huge dichotomy for effect?

Gary gets onto the subject of "recovering fundamentalists," although he can't think of the phrase. He asks Becky, but a man's voice answers. He says he understands the concept, but then his screaming degrades into the usual stuff about rejecting sin "with the he'p of the Lord Jesus Chra."

The anti-phone rant (did you know the devil got somebody to create smartphones?), and more evil government blab is next, TV has always been evil, but it's worse now. "That ain't the Bugs Bunny ah useta watch."

Or:

Spoiler

Hmmm . . . "Bug the Money" sounds like a reality show concept to me.

Voice-over: "We've given this man $5000 in twenty dollar bills, and each bill has a recording device hidden in it. Let's find out how he spends it . . . "

Gary shrieks "Today you cain't even git a preacher t'name the sin, much less the sinner."

Captions:

Spoiler

Mustache the sinner? Lou Jacoby in Irma la Douce?

He tangles up some story about one of the kids in the family being asked to go get a 20-dollar bill from somewhere and bring it in the house, and another kid asked if that's what Gary was going to get for preaching that week. Gary does his faux-modesty bit and says he's not worth that, and would be lucky to get five.

A man and a woman "AMEN!" loudly, and somebody laughs.

He screams about sin some more, tells the story about the Catholic woman who only stayed for 20 minutes of his sermon (but her child remembered the message - in the past, he's said it was the next year; now he says it was two weeks later), and the preacher that showed the pictures of how sin made a woman become sick and ugly.

Psalm 23 is next. I'll meet you in those green pastures later.

Edited November 6, 2021 by thoughtful
riffle

[Xan]

11 hours ago, thoughtful said:

Gary refers to the previous evening's guest preacher as Gene Gibbs. I don't think so, Gary - I found a Gene Gibbs who is a Seventh Day Adventist preacher, and this guy. I'm pretty sure it was Gene Gouge.

Yes, that's Gene Gouge.  He's also a big Covid denier and his anti-vaccine sermons have made it to the local news.  

11 hours ago, thoughtful said:

Do these people really live in a world where everyone is either completely lost to drugs and alcohol, fistfights, sleeping around, chain-smoking and petty thievery, or "saved" churchgoers? Is there nobody in their lives who's just living life happily and harmlessly? Or do they just make up this huge dichotomy for effect?

I think it's for effect.  They have to have everything black and white, good and evil.  There are no shades of gray in fundieland.  Honestly, it's one of the things that puzzles me about our fundies.  They commit sins of sloth, gluttony, envy, pride, greed, and certainly wrath.  The only one they seem to miss is lust.  And yet they think because they uttered the magic words, they're free to waltz into Heaven.  It's bizarre.

[thoughtful]

3 hours ago, Xan said:

I think it's for effect.  They have to have everything black and white, good and evil.  There are no shades of gray in fundieland.

Yep - drama, drama, drama.

After I posted that, I thought about the fact that these preachers often scream about people who are living fairly decent lives, but are not "saved," or are "saved" but still "sinning" or otherwise not living up to their ideal.

But they don't talk about consequences for non-believers or backslid Baptists who are having happy lives and are good people, other than guaranteeing believers that all of those people are going to Hell after they die. And they go on and on about how being saved won't solve all of your problems, and how a believer can still be a sinner.

If they were honest about Hell being the real consequence, they wouldn't be using the prospect of horrible things happening before death as an incentive to "get saved" and/or "live holy."

But they have a lot of stories about people who went wrong and the horrible things that happened to them, or people who were going that way (including themselves, if that's their testimony) but were "saved" and "got right."

There are probably lots of people around them who are neither headed for disaster or in their churches.  I guess, when they're in the mood to use the prospect of wrack and ruin on this side of death in a sermon, preachers just pretend those people don't exist, for the drama. There's nobody but good churchgoers and "mah second cousin who backslid, got hooked on dope, went to prison and was knifed. And he's in Hell!"

And, the next day, they preach about supposedly good people who are also headed for Hell because they're "playing church," or Catholic, or believers who will not like Judgment Day because they are women who wear slacks, or they skipped a service.

One service, listeners are relieved (or feel superior) because Jesus saved them from being hopped-up criminals, the next, they feel alternately relieved/superior because they are believers, but guilty because they "sinned."

Drama, drama, drama.

Edited November 6, 2021 by thoughtful
clarity

[Hane]

One thing I want to ask fundies like Gary: Let’s say you did go to heaven, but people you love go to hell. How are you supposed to enjoy heaven knowing that? I know I couldn’t.

[Xan]

35 minutes ago, Hane said:

One thing I want to ask fundies like Gary: Let’s say you did go to heaven, but people you love go to hell. How are you supposed to enjoy heaven knowing that? I know I couldn’t.

You're assuming Gary loves anyone.  The offhand way he talks about Becky and his kids doesn't sound like love at all.  I think Gary would be absolutely fine if he was enjoying Chinese food in Heaven while his family burned.

I agree.  I would rather burn with family that be safe somewhere without them.  But then I'm a heathen who believes most people are good and would be spared if there was eventually a great sorting event.  And I've never really believed in Hell.  It doesn't make any sense to me that a loving deity would create a place to eternally torment people.  For that matter, the concept of eternity stops me too.  I wouldn't even want to wander around Heaven eating Chinese food for an eternity.  There is a value to the impermanence of things.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Xan

[Black Aliss]

On 11/2/2021 at 6:00 PM, thoughtful said:

So, he doesn't understand basic physics

This comes as a huge shock to me and probably everyone else here.

On 11/2/2021 at 6:00 PM, thoughtful said:

We had a pretty good crowd, y'know, in a trailer lahk 'at ah remember ah wrote a prayer letter out, ah averaged 27 and a half an' some of 'em, ah don't know if they were kiddin' or what, they couldn't figure the half out. Well, you all know - ya average."

 

In fact, I'm impressed he's that good at arithmetic

[thoughtful]

3 hours ago, Hane said:

One thing I want to ask fundies like Gary: Let’s say you did go to heaven, but people you love go to hell. How are you supposed to enjoy heaven knowing that? I know I couldn’t.

As @Xan said, Gary may not be able to love. He does seem to have that narcissistic thing going, where other people are just things he needs.

We needn't ask him how he'd feel, being in Heaven when loved ones are burning - he talks about it all the time. He'd be happy!

First, he gets to watch everybody else who made it to Heaven but didn't live holy having their sins reviewed on a big screen.  Then there's an unexplained  .  . . something.

Their tradition doesn't seem to have any narrative about what happens to those people, or how their sins are punished, other than by the embarrassment of having everyone see them. I don't know if the other dead people are supposed to shame them, and, if so, for how long. But Gary would love that part, if it's required.

People who were saved because he told them about Jesus will come up and thank him. Somewhere in there, he gets a new body, slim and with no aches and pains.  Also, he gets to meet Jesus - in fact, Jesus will serve them all a meal.

He'll be wearing his fancy robe in his mansion, and walking on the street of gold. I don't know if shoes are involved - I guess his glasses will be gone. I wonder if he pictures himself in heavenly robes (and slacks, of course), topped off by his Trump 2024 hat, and possibly wearing a tie with crosses and doves on it.

For eternity, he'll be eating Chinese food, fried chicken and catfish that comes out of the River of Life already fried, none of which will make him fat.

He even gets to indulge his persecution fantasies a teensy bit - sometimes he says he'll be over in the corner with John the Baptist, implying that they'll be rejects together even in Heaven, because they were hard preachers who named the sin (and J the B even named the sinner!).

Oh, and I think he still pictures lots of bantering and teasing between himself and Becky - he jokes about their having separate mansions, and not being sure if she will invite him to hers.

He says that picturing his loved ones in Hell is what keeps him after them about getting saved, and he says he doesn't want anyone to burn in Hell.  But he never seems too broken up about the possibility, and doesn't dwell on it.

He also has told his children that, if they die before him and haven't lived the way God and Jesus think they should (which, of course, really means the way he thinks they should), he won't preach at their funeral.

Charming, eh?

[thoughtful]

20 hours ago, postscript said:

I can't figure out the difference between his certainty that he's destined for Heaven because he accepted Jesus, and the Calvinist certainty that God has already chosen those who will be saved. I'm sure there's some hair-splitting argument I'm missing, but darned if I can figure out what it is (and I'm trained in hyper-analyzing legal language and fact patterns).

That, the pre-or-post tribulation rapture debate, and the "are God, Jesus and/or The Holy Spirit one being, or three, or what" are  all in the "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" category, to me.

I think the Calvinist idea is that some people are predestined for Heaven from birth, and nothing a non-chosen person will do can change them to a saved person. I think they teach that you should live as if you are one of the chosen - hedging your Heavenly bet, as it were.

I think the KJV-Baptist belief is that you can and have to choose salvation, but they also say you can't make it happen, you have to wait for God to "deal with you," or put you "under conviction."

Contradictions and impossibilities abound.

 

[postscript]

1 hour ago, thoughtful said:

That, the pre-or-post tribulation rapture debate, and the "are God, Jesus and/or The Holy Spirit one being, or three, or what" are  all in the "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" category, to me.

I was raised with the doctrine of the Trinity, so I've never had difficulty understanding the concept of the Triune God. However, predestination isn't taught in the mainstream Protestant denominations I'm most familiar with, so the differentiation between various forms of predestination, as well as the idea of a personal salvation experience, are alien to me.

2 hours ago, thoughtful said:

People who were saved because he told them about Jesus will come up and thank him. Somewhere in there, he gets a new body, slim and with no aches and pains.  Also, he gets to meet Jesus - in fact, Jesus will serve them all a meal.

Chinese, of course!

2 hours ago, thoughtful said:

He'll be wearing his fancy robe in his mansion, and walking on the street of gold. I don't know if shoes are involved - I guess his glasses will be gone. I wonder if he pictures himself in heavenly robes (and slacks, of course), topped off by his Trump 2024 hat, and possibly wearing a tie with crosses and doves on it.

Picture of Gary in white robe and Trump hat, floating around Heaven, can never be unseen. . .

2 hours ago, thoughtful said:

He also has told his children that, if they die before him and haven't lived the way God and Jesus think they should (which, of course, really means the way he thinks they should), he won't preach at their funeral.

Such a paternal figure, our Gary. He sees his kids only as reflections on his sanctity. If they haven't lived the way he thinks they should, they probably won't want him to preach at their funeral. 

[forgetmenow]

41 minutes ago, postscript said:

I was raised with the doctrine of the Trinity, so I've never had difficulty understanding the concept of the Triune God. However, predestination isn't taught in the mainstream Protestant denominations I'm most familiar with, so the differentiation between various forms of predestination, as well as the idea of a personal salvation experience, are alien to me.

I was raised Calvinist and came to see that like most things, it exists on a spectrum.  On the far end, you have hypers like Sproul, Jr. who believe that God is the author of sin and delights in creating people just to throw into hell.  (There are scriptures that refute that, so I think he just wants a god who reflects himself.)

With the more mainstream Calvinists (in my experience), you have those that hold to the theological positions of TULIP, but in practice hold to Ecclesiastes 9:4, "For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope."