Joe & Kendra 16: Praise - ing Their Brooklyn All the Day Long!

[AussieKrissy]

9 hours ago, xenobia said:

I think it's Johannah. The video is low quality (just one camera in the back of the church) and it's quite dark. Here's another screenshot that I took myself. It's unfortunately logical that the oldest unmarried (except Jana) child is assigned to help keeping JoKens children in check. 

 

 

Yep I think you are right. I saw another screen shot and it looks like Jessa was wearing white (or another light colour). Holy shit I know people don’t like when bodies are speculated on but she looks ready to pop… again low quality and easy to mistake dress that screams pregnant even when you aren’t.. 

[SamanthasMom]

I read something recently that there are a lot of new real estate agents since the pandemic, but only 1 out of 10 is likely to stick it out long term and make a livelihood of it. I think they will keep having babies whether it is financially responsible or not though.

[Mrs Ms]

3 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

Yep I think you are right. I saw another screen shot and it looks like Jessa was wearing white (or another light colour). Holy shit I know people don’t like when bodies are speculated on but she looks ready to pop… again low quality and easy to mistake dress that screams pregnant even when you aren’t.. 

There is a difference between a rounded stomach which can mean almost anything and having a full basketball in front. I am years postpartum and could realistically model maternity clothing up to 4-5 months along. No way I could convince people I am third trimester. Even in maternity wear and bad quality lighting and low quality film.

[SassyPants]

I would love to speak with Kendra’s HCP. What kind of postpartum education is s/he dispensing? At what point would a medical professional refer the patient to another practitioner? If Kendra is in advanced Pregnancy, how could this possibly be viewed as healthy or without added risk? Kendra’s parents have had 9 children over 22 years, I cant imagine that they would support this-

[BadMurphy]

9 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I would love to speak with Kendra’s HCP. What kind of postpartum education is s/he dispensing? At what point would a medical professional refer the patient to another practitioner? If Kendra is in advanced Pregnancy, how could this possibly be viewed as healthy or without added risk? Kendra’s parents have had 9 children over 22 years, I cant imagine that they would support this-

Joe’s needs over-ride whatever education a provider would give them. 
(although considering that Joe seemed to be one of the few that genuinely cares for and loves his wife-maybe that doc needs to have a chat directly with Joe about sleeping on the roof. (And maybe this chat has already occurred and didn’t work) And if to him his needs for release outweigh the needs of all his children to have a living mother then I guess he’s not the guy I thought he was)

Edited March 28, 2022 by BadMurphy

[Smash!]

11 hours ago, SassyPants said:

If Kendra is in advanced Pregnancy, how could this possibly be viewed as healthy or without added risk?

This is what I don‘t get about that lifestyle. Before birth control and medical care was available for the majority of the people women birthed baby after baby. If they survived the births their bodies were worn out (I shudder when I just think about the various forms of pelvic floor dysfunction and how miserable it has to be to live with) and their overall health was probably pretty bad. But they/science didn‘t know better.

Now we live in times where science is much more advanced. Still there‘s a minority of christian fundamentalists who decide to go back in time exposing women to the very problems that science has overcome. Sure they no longer die in childbirth (here the fundamentalists rely on the science they so despise) but health suffers.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Smash!

[CaptainFunderpants]

8 hours ago, Smash! said:

This is what I don‘t get about that lifestyle. Before birth control and medical care was available for the majority of the people women birthed baby after baby. If they survived the births their bodies were worn out (I shudder when I just think about the various forms of pelvic floor dysfunction and how miserable it has to be to live with) and their overall health was probably pretty bad. But they/science didn‘t know better.

Now we live in times where science is much more advanced. Still there‘s a minority of christian fundamentalists who decide to go back in time exposing women to the very problems that science has overcome. Sure they no longer die in childbirth (here the fundamentalists rely on the science they so despise) but health suffers.

Even if Kendra dies, she's already birthed two girls and a boy, which is above replacement rates. Assuming that baby number four survives birth, that's still a net gain for the quiverful movement, especially because Joe can still go on and impregnate someone else for potentially even more children.

If their four kids have three kids each before one of the daughters dies in childbirth, that's 12 more kids, but likely more because only one will have died via child birth.

I would also think that Kendra's parents would be thrilled. Kendra's mom almost died and yet now has birthed another eight kids after said near death? Death doesn't matter to these folks, the kids'll just see mommy in heaven anyway. Christina would no doubt love to have had the same fertility rate that Kendra does.

[Dandruff]

To them, I think the biblical "Be fruitful, and multiply" tends to supercede other advice, assuming they're seeking it at all.  Jesus may or may not help work things out the way they want.  If not, there's a reason and they don't need to know what it is.

Kendra might be very happy with her situation.  She and Joe seem to love each other very much and their beliefs appear aligned.  She had at least two of her three kids in a hospital, so they're not rejecting all medical advice/assistance.

That is a lot of babies in a short time, though.

[Guanabana]

Was the last baby not born in a hospital? Joe and Kendra are on their fourth child and living in a two bedroom cabin because Pa Caldwell is a dead beat dad who can’t provide for his family.  Shameless.

[SassyPants]

1 minute ago, Guanabana said:

Was the last baby not born in a hospital? Joe and Kendra are on their fourth child and living in a two bedroom cabin because Pa Caldwell is a dead beat dad who can’t provide for his family.  Shameless.

I believe that all their kids were born in a hospital with decent prenatal/medical care. The cabin does have 3 bedrooms, but when it was last shown on TV, the oldest child had a nursery and the 2nd child was in a pack and play in the 3rd bedroom. I believe this was shown right before #3 was born. To me, that spoke volumes. After the first one, they couldn’t even be bothered to dedicate a space to the kids that followed. Am I the only one who finds it odd that families who talk so much about how children are blessings really don’t treat each child as the special creations that they really are??? Everyone deserves better- both parents and kids.

[anjulibai]

19 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I would love to speak with Kendra’s HCP. What kind of postpartum education is s/he dispensing? At what point would a medical professional refer the patient to another practitioner? If Kendra is in advanced Pregnancy, how could this possibly be viewed as healthy or without added risk? Kendra’s parents have had 9 children over 22 years, I cant imagine that they would support this-

Nah, they definitely support this. As I recall, they "only" have 9 because Kendra's mom's issues with pregnancy. I bet they'd love to have more and are very happy that Kendra is/will have so many. 

[mpheels]

22 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I would love to speak with Kendra’s HCP. What kind of postpartum education is s/he dispensing? At what point would a medical professional refer the patient to another practitioner? If Kendra is in advanced Pregnancy, how could this possibly be viewed as healthy or without added risk? Kendra’s parents have had 9 children over 22 years, I cant imagine that they would support this-

Kendra’s parents didn’t limit their number of children by choice. Her mom was injured in a car crash while pregnant with Kendra, which caused problems with each subsequent pregnancy. 

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, mpheels said:

Kendra’s parents didn’t limit their number of children by choice. Her mom was injured in a car crash while pregnant with Kendra, which caused problems with each subsequent pregnancy. 

What? She was injured in a car accident 23 years ago and it affected her fertility? And she went on to have 8 more kids?  I call not the least bit true. 8 kids in 22 years. A kid every 2.75 years, pretty regular cycle. 

[indianabones]

6 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

What? She was injured in a car accident 23 years ago and it affected her fertility? And she went on to have 8 more kids?  I call not the least bit true. 8 kids in 22 years. A kid every 2.75 years, pretty regular cycle. 

It didn't affect her fertility, it just means that she now has higher risk pregnancies and that the further along she gets, the more pain she's in.

[SassyPants]

20 minutes ago, indianabones said:

It didn't affect her fertility, it just means that she now has higher risk pregnancies and that the further along she gets, the more pain she's in.

Well, the pain must be manageable as she’s gone on to have 8 more kids. And I’m not sure a miserable pregnancy equals higher risk. Has she had prolonged bed rest, pre term infants or any baby needing Nicu care for any significant length of time? 

As a nurse who worked in the Nicu (level 4) for 35 years, I am very cautious with labels as I know what having a high risk pregnancy actually means. I’ve not ever heard about the Caldwells experiencing anything like this. And I do agree Kendra’s parents were not procreating like Kendra and Joe are- very few people in the US do because it’s not healthy or encouraged.

Edited March 29, 2022 by SassyPants

[indianabones]

10 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Well, the pain must be manageable as she’s gone on to have 8 more kids. And I’m not sure a miserable pregnancy equals higher risk. Has she had prolonged bed rest, pre term infants or any baby needing Nicu care for any significant length of time? 

Here's the part of the show where Kendra talked about it (starting around the 1:00 mark).

https://youtu.be/EzHHBYyIVt4

[just_ordinary]

17 hours ago, Smash! said:

This is what I don‘t get about that lifestyle. Before birth control and medical care was available for the majority of the people women birthed baby after baby. If they survived the births their bodies were worn out (I shudder when I just think about the various forms of pelvic floor dysfunction and how miserable it has to be to live with) and their overall health was probably pretty bad. But they/science didn‘t know better.

Now we live in times where science is much more advanced. Still there‘s a minority of christian fundamentalists who decide to go back in time exposing women to the very problems that science has overcome. Sure they no longer die in childbirth (here the fundamentalists rely on the science they so despise) but health suffers.

That didn’t mean women were pregnant ALL the time though. Having so many babies that close together was still rare. Especially as in rural areas, women worked really hard as well. If you had land/livestock, there was no chance women sat at home just tending to the house. And in the cities they did work in the factories well. So, naturally there were some factors that made this intense breeding we see here almost impossible. And the better situated always had a way of not having too many children. Not to forget that infant mortality was much higher as well. 
Also, and there might be specific to my country, there was always a big difference between the official religious based ideas and what people did at home. Even if it was concealed very well/not talked about openly.

In the Middle Ages we talk about 5-6 children for a farmers wife, with 2-3 reaching adulthood. Even then 8-12 was considered a lot. In the 18th century it was about 7 children per family on average for rural areas (children mortality unclear). A hundred years later we are already down to 5-6 again. And it has only been going down ever since. I have really no idea what time in history those Fundies emphasise when they spout their ideas. Be it the amount of children (people almost never bred like crazy) or the strict gender roles. That’s not even true for upper class victorians. 
Obviously the numbers might be different in other countries. But that’s a very good explanation why 4-5 children is seen as a BIG family here. Just because we never really had an average family size of 4-5 children consistently in history but just in short phases.

Edited March 29, 2022 by just_ordinary

[ophelia]

Interestingly the Hatfield and McCoys both had mega families back in the 19th century. Devil Anse Hatfield and his wife had 13 kids. His wife was 48 when she had her last. The McCoys had 17 children and Sara McCoy had her last when she was 46.

Of course, these two mega families are clearly exceptions. I just stated them since they are also well known, although not for their number of children, but obviously for their feud.

 

[medimus]

Yep, the notion that people used to have really large families is false, they were perhaps a bit more common, but the were not the norm. There was a brief fashion for large upper class families in britain in the Victorian era, but it faded pretty quickly and the norm was 2-3 again by the early 20th century.

I remember reading a study a few years ago about what if women used no form of contraception now, with all yhe benefits of good nutrition and healthcare etc, the average number of children over a reproductive liftime would be about 8-10, so one every 2-3 years. A baby every year is not the norm even with good health and no contraception.

Also intersting to this dicussion is the bbc radio 4 series called History of childhood (i'be also seen it as an audiobook), which explains that modern families with a few children with mixed parentage (stepfamilies etc) would have been completely normal in the middle ages too. But then it would have been through death and remariage and infant mortality rather than divorce and choice.

[anjulibai]

Even in the Bible, women don't have a ton of kids. Jacob had 12, but not all by one woman; Leah had the most at 7. I can't think of another woman in the Bible that had that many. Maybe Mary, but that's debated. Most had 1-3. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by anjulibai

[Cam]

8 hours ago, indianabones said:

Here's the part of the show where Kendra talked about it (starting around the 1:00 mark).

https://youtu.be/EzHHBYyIVt4

I never watched Counting On, but I watched the clip you provided. I can’t help thinking Kendra’s mom was all in favor of her daughter marrying a Duggar so she (Kendra’s mom) could get her 15 minutes of fame on TV; an opportunity to show off her own mega-fertility skills. Maybe even hoping for some kind of spin-off.
 

For me, it’s kinda creepy for Kendra and her mom to be preggers and having a baby in a similar time frame. The mom is doing her best to make it seem like it’s this wonderful bonding experience but I ain’t buying it. I could imagine Kendra thinking how special it is to have her first kid and there’s her mother having given birth many times over making sure Kendra doesn’t get too much of the spotlight: “Scooch over, Kendra, Mommy’s here.” As a new mom, Kendra might have wanted some extra attention from her mom and instead, it’s like the mother is competing with her: “Yeah, Kendra, but can you top this?” (The mother was one of Kendra’s bridemaids, so there’s no boundaries between them. More creepiness).

I mean, Kendra doesn’t appear all that happy in the clip. It also seems like it could have been scripted: “Okay, everyone! Production wants ya’ll to talk about how impressed you young ladies are with your mom’s childbirthing skills!”

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Cam

[Meggo]

On 3/27/2022 at 8:27 AM, Italiangirl said:

Yup that's Kendra and she looks quite pregnant maybe around 5/6 months. I think Garret turns 4 in June right? So she could have 4 under 3 for a brief time but easier 4 under 4. They really have the potential to beat Michelle and Jb! She is having one kid a year by her marriage 

How can she NOT be overwhelmed? I have one kiddo, and he was adopted - so the whole pregnancy thing is a mystery to me. But I have NEVER EVER been as tired as I was when he was first born and came home. I was up every three hours to feed/change him (like clockwork because he was a preemie and needed to eat every three hours regardless of HIS opinion on the matter). And I quit my job when he came along. But the act of caring for ONE small baby who thought naps were for suckers, keeping my house looking livable (I'm not saying it was clean -but I just tried to make sure I loaded the dishwasher every now and again, and scaled Mount Laundry on the regular) - was exhausting. Add in a few toddlers? And being tired from either BEING pregnant or having just BEEN pregnant - good grief - how is she not exhausted?? 
I get sister-moms and all - but... are they there 24/7? Has she even had a decent nights sleep in 4 years? Between babies and newborns and having to be joyfully available to Joe? Man - I'm exhausted just thinking about it ...

[Cam]

9 minutes ago, Cam said:

Sorry, double post!

Edited March 29, 2022 by Cam
Deleting double post

[JermajestyDuggar]

None of my great grandparents in my family had double digits children. Of my 4 sets of great grandparents, one couple had 2, one couple had 4, one couple had 5 and one couple had 6. I really don’t remember my mom talking about anyone in the family history having a huge amount of children. I know 8 is considered quite big because my great grandmother’s brother had 8 and everyone was like, “wow that’s a lot.” I will say my entire family is Protestant not Catholic. I don’t know if that makes a difference. 

[Meggo]

5 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

None of my great grandparents in my family had double digits children. Of my 4 sets of great grandparents, one couple had 2, one couple had 4, one couple had 5 and one couple had 6. I really don’t remember my mom talking about anyone in the family history having a huge amount of children. I know 8 is considered quite big because my great grandmother’s brother had 8 and everyone was like, “wow that’s a lot.” I will say my entire family is Protestant not Catholic. I don’t know if that makes a difference. 

My mom is one of four, my dad is one of 5 (though one came along when the oldest was 18...). My grandpa was one of 14 though (two moms). First Mom had ... 8 maybe? and the 2nd wife (who was also the kids half sister - but she wasn't raised with them or by Mom - it's all very complicated and involves trying bring someone out of Poland in 1937) brought three kids and they had a few more... 
Hubs is one of 10. In his ... culture I guess (he was raised Old School Mennonite) - it's important to have a lot of kids so they can all go work and support the family. His family stopped at 10 because Mom had a hysterectomy after #10.