Theobros, Patriarchs, Dominionists, Christofascists et al.

[theotherelise]

2 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

I listened to those episodes. Is Pastor Andy or whatever his real name is still in the ministry? Is that church still in existence?

Regardless, I hope that you in a better situation for church, if you're still going because the couplesʻ accounts sounded awful.

Yeah, church is still going. I’m actually mentioned in the first episode as “couple going through infertility.” Honestly I have a lot of mixed feelings. I was present for some of the things “Derek and Kaylee” shared in their episode and It didn’t go Down how they claimed. Doesn’t change what happened with the discipline was wrong, but it’s frustrating. I was really bothered to be mentioned. Derek and Kaylee were really horrible to me and my spouse, their co-leaders of the small group, about our infertility. So yeah mixed feelings. But Matt and Cassie’s story is something I can vouch for 100%. We left soon after them but didn’t move away. Cassie told me most of that while it was happening. 

Since the episodes, the one elder reached out to us to “see how we were doing with the podcast” and “isn’t it sad when friends go after friends.” We made it really clear that we didn’t have anything to talk about with him. We’ve moved on personally. We don’t want to be in their drama. 

But yeah, pastor “Andy” is still doing his thing. They’ve lost a lot of people over the 10 years. I started attending in 2012 and left in early 2021. We found out he’d revoked membership from our friend for choosing to pursue a relationship ship (he’s gay). Andy is super controlling. We were really heavily involved too. so glad to be out of a29 and that church!

[Giraffe]

https://people.com/human-interest/hillsong-first-black-pastor-leaves-church-saying-his-congregants-dont-trust-leadership/

Another Hillsong pastor forced to step down "amid allegations of sexual misconduct." It's not a bug, people, it's a feature!

[hoipolloi]

4 hours ago, theotherelise said:

I was really bothered to be mentioned...Andy is super controlling. We were really heavily involved too. so glad to be out of a29 and that church!

Iʻm sorry -- that all sounds so painful after investing so much of your time and selves into the church. Iʻm glad you are free of it and the Acts 29 network. 

Must admit that I got through the first episode still wondering what an "M.C." is! Having looked it up it reminds me of what the Sovereign Grace Ministry churches call small groups.

[Howl]

7 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Must admit that I got through the first episode still wondering what an "M.C." is! Having looked it up it reminds me of what the Sovereign Grace Ministry churches call small groups.

Gack! 

LEADERSHIP   Our groups are led by mature, male church members. They (along with their wives, if married) facilitate meetings and keep the group organized. They are appointed, trained, and mentored by our Pastoral Team.

Going back to the earlier posts on John MacArthur and GCC and the woman who was trying to leave her abusive husband:  The thing that struck me most involved the numerous visits from people who were enforcers for the church and whose job was to beat her down emotionally and psychologically so she'd stay with her husband. 

I can see how small group leaders and members could function as enforcers in an abusive church. 

 

[Howl]

Owen Strachan is currently on an extremely dick-centric roll on twitter and is getting ratio'd HARD for this take: 

"God has staked everything on men. Strong men are the foundation of a strong marriage. Strong men are the foundation of a strong home. Strong men are the foundation of a strong church. Strong men are the foundation of a strong society. God has staked EVERYTHING on men.

Another way of saying this: Christ is the spiritual foundation of everything and men are the anthropological foundation of all these institutions. In Christ, men hold fast to--and are head of--one wife & family; men lead the church as elders; men must lead in public (Is. 3:12)."

Some great responses: 

• I want someone to love me as much as you love strong men
• Tell me you have made yourself an idol while clearly telling me you have made yourself an idol.
• My absolute fave response: 

 

 

[Columbia]

Poor Owen’s going to get caught à la Ted Haggard. It’s only a matter of time. 

[hoipolloi]

6 hours ago, Columbia said:

Poor Owen’s going to get caught à la Ted Haggard. It’s only a matter of time. 

ITA. When someone is so publicly obsessed with sex and whoʻs having sex, you KNOW something is going on.

[cacophony_grey]

Here's an article on Greg Locke from The Washington Post today. It's a broad strokes overview that discusses Locke's role in the January 6 insurrection, reasons for his increasing popularity, the style of his worship services (including "silver vomit buckets" at the end of each row), and some of the pushback against him. The witchcraft accusations are mentioned only briefly.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/03/31/tennessee-pastor-extremist-politics/

[JermajestyDuggar]

The supposed witches in his church did an interview and it seemed to me that the couple disagreed with Greg on something and Greg didn’t like that. So he decided to call them witches and kick them out. His cult followers won’t talk to the “witches” to see what happened because they were branded witches. If he had just privately kicked them out, then some of the cult probably would have talked to them and asked what was going on. It’s a tactic to cut them off. I’m guessing he will do this again in the future. 

[cacophony_grey]

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

The supposed witches in his church did an interview and it seemed to me that the couple disagreed with Greg on something and Greg didn’t like that. So he decided to call them witches and kick them out. His cult followers won’t talk to the “witches” to see what happened because they were branded witches. If he had just privately kicked them out, then some of the cult probably would have talked to them and asked what was going on. It’s a tactic to cut them off. I’m guessing he will do this again in the future. 

According to the Post article, "Locke said the expulsion stemmed from a dispute over whether to charge for counseling sessions related to exorcisms, which he opposed." 

So I guess witches are ... capitalists? "Oh, Gina? She's a total witch. A real pray-for-pay type, if you know what I mean."

[Howl]

10 hours ago, cacophony_grey said:

According to the Post article, "Locke said the expulsion stemmed from a dispute over whether to charge for counseling sessions related to exorcisms, which he opposed." 

This is an utterly fabulous sentence on so many levels, yet confusing.  Is he opposed to exorcisms, counseling related to exorcisms, paying for counseling or actual exorcisms. Whichever, it's a large basket of raging wing nuttery. 

[meep]

Oh I've heard of this guy because I think he was the one who The Friendly Atheist would call out and troll regularly on twitter before, you know, Locke was kicked off of twitter. 

[forgetmenow]

Not shocking in the least, he declared that his wife was mentally ill, divorced her and then married her best friend who also happened to be his administrative assistant.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/popular-internet-pastor-greg-locke-marries-church-assistant-after-divorce.html

Eta: This went down at least 2 years ago.

Edited April 3, 2022 by forgetmenow
clarification

[JermajestyDuggar]

58 minutes ago, forgetmenow said:

Not shocking in the least, he declared that his wife was mentally ill, divorced her and then married her best friend who also happened to be his administrative assistant.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/popular-internet-pastor-greg-locke-marries-church-assistant-after-divorce.html

Eta: This went down at least 2 years ago.

Oh I remember that very well. What I wonder now is if he sees his 4 children much. They must resent him for doing that to their mother. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

9 hours ago, forgetmenow said:

Not shocking in the least, he declared that his wife was mentally ill, divorced her and then married her best friend who also happened to be his administrative assistant.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/popular-internet-pastor-greg-locke-marries-church-assistant-after-divorce.html

Eta: This went down at least 2 years ago.

This article is filled with WTF and hypocrisy

Quote

 [Greg Loch says ]"I still preach against divorce. I'm in a series right now in Ephesians, I'm encroaching on Chapter 5. You know, I'm gonna have to preach about marriage. Husband's love your wives as Christ loves the Church, that's a difficult balance right now but I'm gonna have to learn to be a way better husband than I was the first go round," he said of his new marriage.

"There's no doubt. We (Locke and his ex-wife) both contributed to the failure of our marriage ... and so I'm gonna have to learn to be a biblical husband in the strictest sense of the word. I'm not gonna change the fact that I'm still very conservative, my values and morals. Is divorce wrong? Yeah. Does God offer forgiveness? There is only one unforgivable sin in the Bible and it's not divorce. It's the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit," he said.

Divorce is wrong except when he divorces and then remarries very quickly.

Quote

Locke, who has four children with Melissa, including two who were adopted,

So he and the first wife had four kids.

Quote

I retain the kids. We finally got amicable. She's got two, I've got two. I'm remarried. She's moving on with her life. We're trying to be as friendly as we can," he said.

The parent trap solution in real life, I guess.

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Bluebirdbluebell

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

This article is filled with WTF and hypocrisy

Divorce is wrong except when he divorces and then remarries very quickly.

So he and the first wife had four kids.

The parent trap solution in real life, I guess.

 

He has two? I bet he has the two who aren’t adopted. Seems like something he would do.

[Howl]

2 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

This article is filled with WTF and hypocrisy...Divorce is wrong except when he divorces and then remarries very quickly...

I'm sure I read this article when originally published...but I re-read it and was gobsmacked all over again.  Such a shallow, facile man.  

Quote

"The 'lady' in question (McGee) has worked for our church for a long time and been my wife's best friend for a very long time, and both of our families have been the closest of friends. 

So much betrayal. It's not that he got divorced while not believing in divorce, the new wife divorced her husband as well.  Pretty obvious they were having an affair.  

Quote

We have done things together for years and that has never come into question and been a problem until all of a sudden this happened and I became single," Locke told CP in January.

It's ALMOST as though he had no part in it.  It just...happened our of nowhere and suddenly he woke up and found himself divorced. 

Quote

I'm not gonna live crazy and single for the rest of my life and just live in misery because my ex-wife decided to burn my life to the ground publicly with a bunch a lies about abuse and stuff

Did the now ex-wife figure out that there was some type of affair going on, couldn't take the abuse any longer and pulled the plug? 

This guy is a flaming asshole.  In reality, he has zero idea how well his ex-wife is doing because he doesn't give a shit. 

If any of you find this all incredibly triggering, as in being the left-behind spouse, I'll share this: In the late 1990s my now ex announced that he didn't love me anymore and was moving out that day.  We'd been together almost 13 years; I had no clue this was coming. Although he lied about it at the time, he'd fallen in love with a co-worker and was moving in with her.  It was like a bomb went off in my life, very painful, and I bear the scars to this day even though I've remarried.   However, about 20 years later I read a book called Runaway Husbands: The Abandoned Wife's Guide to Recovery and Renewal that was very helpful to me in understanding the dynamics when the spouse/partner begins a new relationship and abruptly leaves, even after all that time. 

From the book description on Amazon: Wife Abandonment Syndrome is a pattern of behavior on the part of a husband who leaves his wife out-of-the-blue from what she believed was a happy marriage. Following his sudden departure, he replaces the caring he'd typically shown her with anger and aggression. He often moves in directly with a girlfriend, leaving his bewildered wife totally devastated.

 

[hoipolloi]

That article -- what the actual FUCK?

Quote

 

"...We have done things together for years and that has never come into question and been a problem until all of a sudden this happened and I became single," Locke told CP in January.

When asked how their relationship flowered into a marriage, Locke explained that things began to change after his divorce with Melissa was finalized in May.

 

So he divorces his first wife and then says that the divorce pushed him into the second marriage?

How stupid are the people at his church?

[Howl]

26 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

How stupid are the people at his church?

Well, quite a few of them left.  Those who are not critical thinkers decided to remain.  You know, the ones who heard Greg Locke accuse their fellow congregants of witchcraft and nodded their heads in agreement. 

28 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

So he divorces his first wife and then says that the divorce pushed him into the second marriage?

Well he certainly had no intention of being single for a season and all the suffering that would have entailed. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Obviously his ex wife is much better off divorced from this piece of shit. However it must be hard to know your ex best friend is now married to your ex husband. I hope she’s gotten therapy and can find her own happiness without him. 

[Howl]

An accidental anti-theo bro manifesto, from my favorite local Presbyterian pastor, Jim Rigby: 

SOMETIMES THE CHURCH NEEDS TO DIE THAT LOVE MIGHT BE BORN

snip *Patriarchy needs to die. If the church will not let go of its patriarchal thought and structure, then maybe the church needs to die as well so that gender justice might be born in our day.*

Spoiler

Many young people are leaving the church for reasons Jesus might very well have agreed with.

Like Jesus, many young people don’t want to be associated with a judgmental religious hierarchy. The “product” Jesus taught was not the church but a radical and universal love that does justice. If the church wants to teach something else, then maybe love needs a new vessel anyway.

Patriarchy needs to die. If the church will not let go of its patriarchal thought and structure, then maybe the church needs to die as well so that gender justice might be born in our day.

Superstition needs to die. If the church chooses belief over honesty, then maybe the church needs to die so that truth might be born in our day.

Moralism based on ancient superstitions needs to die. If the church will not stop judging others as unworthy, maybe the church needs to die so that grace might be born in our day.

The church is not an end in itself. The church is a vessel to learn and teach radical, inclusive and universal love. If the church wants to teach something else, then maybe it is time for the church to die that love might find a worthier vessel.

 

[MamaJunebug]

16 hours ago, Howl said:

An accidental anti-theo bro manifesto, from my favorite local Presbyterian pastor, Jim Rigby: 

SOMETIMES THE CHURCH NEEDS TO DIE THAT LOVE MIGHT BE BORN

snip *Patriarchy needs to die. If the church will not let go of its patriarchal thought and structure, then maybe the church needs to die as well so that gender justice might be born in our day.*

  Hide contents

Many young people are leaving the church for reasons Jesus might very well have agreed with.

Like Jesus, many young people don’t want to be associated with a judgmental religious hierarchy. The “product” Jesus taught was not the church but a radical and universal love that does justice. If the church wants to teach something else, then maybe love needs a new vessel anyway.

Patriarchy needs to die. If the church will not let go of its patriarchal thought and structure, then maybe the church needs to die as well so that gender justice might be born in our day.

Superstition needs to die. If the church chooses belief over honesty, then maybe the church needs to die so that truth might be born in our day.

Moralism based on ancient superstitions needs to die. If the church will not stop judging others as unworthy, maybe the church needs to die so that grace might be born in our day.

The church is not an end in itself. The church is a vessel to learn and teach radical, inclusive and universal love. If the church wants to teach something else, then maybe it is time for the church to die that love might find a worthier vessel.

 

Oldie here. Not the oldest, but old. I distinctly recall the day someone explained to my mid-30s self that for some people church membership was similar to belonging to a private country club.  
 

Sweet summer children, me & my family. We studied other denominations for their polity on the Sacraments, Biblical inerrancy, etc.  

For others (some, not all), church was where you went to make contacts.  See and be seen by the right people.  

There’s a general drift in USA population away from club and lodge membership.  Makes sense church membership would follow suit. 
 

Two memories, out of order but “telling:” 

* My surprise as a teen when church and synagogue leaders fought for civil rights. Oh! Church is NOT just about believing right to get to Heaven!? 
 

* The beginning of a big “aha” moment when I heard a lady’s story of her change in denominations.  She had been a “good [Denomination 1]” who did all the right things for her suburban parish.  Then her husband left her and their many children for another woman. Disappeared, essentially. 

They had almost run out of food and Ms.  Lee was panicking (this would’ve been very early 1969’s, late  1959’s, in a new suburb, still lots of woods and small farms around. 
 

She got home snd discovered bags of groceries in the kitchen.  Found out that local [Denomination 2] families had heard about her predicament and had come to the rescue. “But the clergy and the people at the [Denomination 1] Church?” she said, telling me the story. “They knew, and didn’t care.  They figured I’d failed my husband, that I was an embarrassment.  So I became [Denomination 2].”  
 

Denomination 1’s attitude has changed in the 60 years since Ms. Lee’s trauma.  Very into social charity.  But at the time? Membership meant fitting the mold, being presentable. 
 

Lots to think about, and storms bearing down. Heck.  Anyway.  

[Howl]

6 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

storms bearing down

My goodness,  yes they are.  The original storm line that formed in Texas missed us but lots of injuries further north. 

Stay safe and keep your powder dry! 

[MamaJunebug]

4 hours ago, Howl said:

My goodness,  yes they are.  The original storm line that formed in Texas missed us but lots of injuries further north. 

Stay safe and keep your powder dry! 

You too, my friend! 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

21 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

  ... for some people church membership was similar to belonging to a private country club.  

Mr Dress' parents moved to the very tony bedroom suburb where he grew up just after he was born.  They bought a house in the tony "right" neighborhood of very large houses; joined the private country club; his father joined the "right" civic organizations, and they cast about for a Denomination to join.

They settled on the most socially prominent and wealthiest one in town. Neither of his parents were raised in that Denomination, and neither of them ever paid more than lip service to it. even though they went every Sunday. They made a yearly contribution to the church - the "right" amount of course in line with everyone else.

Interestingly none of this belonging to the "right" church rubbed off on Mr. Dress. He's all about faith, anonymous charity, and working for social justice (evil Catholic that he converted to be). 

His brother has followed right along with the parents' example, but attends a different, but very social/rich, denomination where he lives.  Yet another way Mr Dress and BIL are completely unlike.