Justin and Claire 3: Always Beige

[JermajestyDuggar]

Here’s a Morton Smith example. When Alan was arrested, all the adopted children were still living at home with the Smiths. By looking at social media, it was extremely obvious that the children were forced to stand behind Alan with their parents. Bret took the older boys to the prison with him to visit Alan and to do prison ministry. According to social media, the oldest 3 don’t live with the smiths anymore. And I haven’t seen any signs that they go to prison ministry anymore. I’ve also seen one of them holding one of Bethany’s kids. Bethany is a Lane but she is on the Katie Morton side. He likely wouldn’t get a chance to see his nieces and nephews if he was still living at home with Bret and Jackie. Living at home means you don’t get a choice. 
 

I absolutely can’t stand the Mortons. But they did the right thing by cutting off Alan, Bret, and Jackie and taking in Katie. That doesn’t make them great or even likable. They still hold shitty fundie beliefs. Let’s hope the Wissmanns support Jana if she wants to at least cut off Josh. Even if they will always have shitty fundie beliefs. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

12 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Here’s a Morton Smith example. When Alan was arrested, all the adopted children were still living at home with the Smiths. By looking at social media, it was extremely obvious that the children were forced to stand behind Alan with their parents. Bret took the older boys to the prison with him to visit Alan and to do prison ministry. According to social media, the oldest 3 don’t live with the smiths anymore. And I haven’t seen any signs that they go to prison ministry anymore. I’ve also seen one of them holding one of Bethany’s kids. Bethany is a Lane but she is on the Katie Morton side. He likely wouldn’t get a chance to see his nieces and nephews if he was still living at home with Bret and Jackie. Living at home means you don’t get a choice. 
 

I absolutely can’t stand the Mortons. But they did the right thing by cutting off Alan, Bret, and Jackie and taking in Katie. That doesn’t make them great or even likable. They still hold shitty fundie beliefs. Let’s hope the Wissmanns support Jana if she wants to at least cut off Josh. Even if they will always have shitty fundie beliefs. 

Thanks, I don't know anything about those families but I agree with your point that even if they have shitty beliefs doing the right thing does count for something.  A lot, IMO.

Derek has shitty beliefs, but supporting Jill in therapy, demanding fair payment for her labor, getting their kids a real education are all good things.  I'm happy when people make healthy decisions for themselves and their kids even if they haven't shaken all the shitty beliefs.  

[lexiloumarie]

22 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Here’s a Morton Smith example. When Alan was arrested, all the adopted children were still living at home with the Smiths. By looking at social media, it was extremely obvious that the children were forced to stand behind Alan with their parents. Bret took the older boys to the prison with him to visit Alan and to do prison ministry. According to social media, the oldest 3 don’t live with the smiths anymore. And I haven’t seen any signs that they go to prison ministry anymore. I’ve also seen one of them holding one of Bethany’s kids. Bethany is a Lane but she is on the Katie Morton side. He likely wouldn’t get a chance to see his nieces and nephews if he was still living at home with Bret and Jackie. Living at home means you don’t get a choice. 
 

I absolutely can’t stand the Mortons. But they did the right thing by cutting off Alan, Bret, and Jackie and taking in Katie. That doesn’t make them great or even likable. They still hold shitty fundie beliefs. Let’s hope the Wissmanns support Jana if she wants to at least cut off Josh. Even if they will always have shitty fundie beliefs. 

They've also supported Katie on making sure his rights were terminated/his oldest namesake was given a new name. Brian Smith is the former Bret Alan III. They've really gone the whole way in with Katie. I suspect though that they hold to the belief on remarriage is adultery because Katie has not been matched again. 

[Jana814]

45 minutes ago, lexiloumarie said:

They've also supported Katie on making sure his rights were terminated/his oldest namesake was given a new name. Brian Smith is the former Bret Alan III. They've really gone the whole way in with Katie. I suspect though that they hold to the belief on remarriage is adultery because Katie has not been matched again. 

Glad they are supporting their daughter like they did. I didn’t realize that they changed her oldest son’s name. 

[Idlewild]

Claire and her mother are suddenly promoting companies that provided services for the wedding- maybe there’s a special coming up? Also Claire is styling herself as ‘public figure’ in her bio. Really Claire? You’ve married a teenager from an infamous family. I could understand if in her newly wed glow she described herself as ‘wife’ but she seems determined that the Duggar brand is worth having. 

[Vivi_music]

9 hours ago, Idlewild said:

Claire and her mother are suddenly promoting companies that provided services for the wedding- maybe there’s a special coming up? Also Claire is styling herself as ‘public figure’ in her bio. Really Claire? You’ve married a teenager from an infamous family. I could understand if in her newly wed glow she described herself as ‘wife’ but she seems determined that the Duggar brand is worth having. 

Public figure? Wow. For marrying into a disfonctional fundamentalist family?

What does she contribute to public life? At least, people who are public figures usually are either artists, journalists, stylists, chefs, designers, bloggers, etc. People who can give advice to others, bring joy through their work, or just help the public debate. I don't know.

Not marrying a younger son of a D-list celebrity family.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

I think it’s reasonable to label her account as a public figure. We’re talking about her here. Sad though it is, people may want to pretend to be her for cosplay or snark reasons. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 hours ago, Vivi_music said:

Not marrying a younger son of a D-list celebrity family.

I'm with you guys.  Not sure how you get to be a public figure just for marrying someone "famous" when their level of fame in the general population is "Who?  Which Duggar?" is really stretching the definition.

[SassyPants]

I don’t know how you get to be any kind of celebrity/public figure for merely being a particularly prolific member of a fertility cult. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

I think it’s reasonable to label her account as a public figure. We’re talking about her here. Sad though it is, people may want to pretend to be her for cosplay or snark reasons. 

Bolding mine - if that's the definition than JRod is more of a public figure than Cher or JLo.  Someone should tell her, I'm sure she'll be thrilled!   

[GuineaPigCourtship]

It would only confirm what she already believes.

[poisonrationalitie]

I can't help but wonder if they're posting more on their social media accounts to 'build up' to a pregnancy announcement. Newsflash: the general public won't remember you exist whether you post a photo of your 'date night' or not, Clairitin. 

[Tangy Bee]

I wonder if Justin talked to Claire about Josh's trouble with the law. He had to know something was up. Moving to Texas was probably his way to escape his family's issues.

[Idlewild]

Date night for an 18 year old? That implies he ever went on an actual date.

If the Spivey family did know about the investigation into Josh then shame on them for fangirling over JB and the rest of them. There’s no way I’d be plastering them over my social media.

It does look like they are trying to creep back into the limelight- I think Hilary has her heart set on a People magazine pregnancy photo shoot for Claire.

[Tangy Bee]

Well I kinda feel bad for them. As soon as her daughter becomes a new Duggar...Josh's criminal issues become national news. Then again, this could be a kiss ass technique to stay in good graces with JB. Gotta prove she still supports the Duggar brand?

[viii]

1 hour ago, Tangy Bee said:

Well I kinda feel bad for them. As soon as her daughter becomes a new Duggar...Josh's criminal issues become national news. Then again, this could be a kiss ass technique to stay in good graces with JB. Gotta prove she still supports the Duggar brand?

I don't feel bad for her. She willingly encouraged a relationship between her daughter and a Duggar - knowing already about the molestation scandal and the Ashley Madison circus. She knew in plenty of time that Josh ain't shit and she STILL chose to happily run down that path, dragging her daughter with her. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 minutes ago, viii said:

I don't feel bad for her. She willingly encouraged a relationship between her daughter and a Duggar - knowing already about the molestation scandal and the Ashley Madison circus. She knew in plenty of time that Josh ain't shit and she STILL chose to happily run down that path, dragging her daughter with her. 

Yep.  If she didn't have the Duggar's number she just wasn't paying attention.   

[GuineaPigCourtship]

But the redemption babies meant he was better and forgiven! /s

I do feel a little sorry for Claire in that this is probably putting a damper on newlywed bliss, the first time in her life that she would have had attention solely on her from someone else. Regardless of how I feel about their marriage, I don't think someone should be judged by a deviant family member. I have a relative imprisoned for incest and I'd very much like no one to judge me based on their filthy monstrous act. There were plenty of other excellent reasons to avoid the Duggars besides Josh. And as soon as she announces a pregnancy, all my sympathy will be reserved for her fetus.

[ophelia]

I do feel sorry for Claire and actually wish her and Justin the best. Not because I'm a leghumper, but because a failed relationship/marriage would be an incredible heavy burden in their cult.

I do blame her mother though, because I feel like she was desperate to get a Duggar boy for her daughter and wanted to connect her family to their (destructive) brand.

 

[CaptainFunderpants]

I do feel sorry for Claire and actually wish her and Justin the best. Not because I'm a leghumper, but because a failed relationship/marriage would be an incredible heavy burden in their cult.
I do blame her mother though, because I feel like she was desperate to get a Duggar boy for her daughter and wanted to connect her family to their (destructive) brand.
 

*singsong voice* Jillary [emoji445]

[Idlewild]

Justin is more fortunate than many of his siblings in that he is away from Arkansas, has a job where his employer isn’t called Duggar and has supportive people around him. He could lead a private & happy life without anyone really linking him with Josh and the cult.

Unfortunately his mother in law seems desperate for fundie fame and likes to parade herself with pictures of gurning Duggars and remind everyone who her daughter is married to. 

[seraaa]

I think there are different kinds of fame, and different levels of fame. Celebrity can niche if someone is very well-known on a certain platform or among a particular demographic, but their fame doesn't transcend those parameters. The internet has made the boundaries even blurrier, and we also see people like the Kardashians transcend them to reach 'household name' tier of fame.

Claire is only marginally-famous-by-association, but enough people are looking at her (mostly on the internet, in reality television and snark communities) to make a 'public figure' instagram not entirely outrageous imo. It may be slightly grandiose, but there are benefits to having a verified account that extend to everyone who has some kind of branded presence on the internet, even if it is niche. 

It's also a choice, though, because as we have seen, some of the other Duggars have decided on a more anonymous online presence.

Edited May 20, 2021 by seraaa

[Mama Mia]

22 hours ago, viii said:

I don't feel bad for her. She willingly encouraged a relationship between her daughter and a Duggar - knowing already about the molestation scandal and the Ashley Madison circus. She knew in plenty of time that Josh ain't shit and she STILL chose to happily run down that path, dragging her daughter with her. 

But that doesn’t seem reasonable - Justin of all people shouldn’t be held responsible for his brothers conduct. None of the siblings should have their life options / relationship choices limited because of his actions. 

 

4 minutes ago, seraaa said:

I think there are different kinds of fame, and different levels of fame. Celebrity can niche if someone is very well-known on a certain platform or among a particular demographic, but their fame doesn't transcend those parameters. The internet has made the boundaries even blurrier, and we also see people like the Kardashians transcend them to reach 'household name' tier of fame.

Claire is only marginally-famous-by-association, but enough people are looking at her (mostly on the internet, in reality television and snark communities) to make a 'public figure' instagram not entirely outrageous imo. It may be slightly grandiose, but there are benefits to having a verified account that extend to everyone who has some kind of branded presence on the internet, even if it is niche. 

It's also a choice, though, because as we have seen, some of the other Duggars have decided on a more anonymous online presence.

I can see why she’d want to be verified in some way, there are always fake accounts for anyone who is remotely a celebrity - they seem to mostly be fan accounts, but they can get weird, and spread gossip or put out drama that just isn’t true, just for fun. You could have fake “Claire Duggar” posting she’s pregnant with triplets, or posting love notes on Jeremy’s Insta, or promoting her OnlyFans account ( for a low rate, because she has to keep her face hidden, obviously) ...

[Free Felicity]

I agree that the other siblings shouldn't be judged by Josh's actions. Judging them for the horrendous actions of their brother doesn't hurt Josh, it hurts his victims after all.

I didn't know until I was an adult, but one of my great uncles did something sexually inappropriate to my grandmother at a young age. She came from a large, depression era family. As far as I know the rest of her siblings were outstanding citizens. 

My great uncle who was the perpetrator had been one of my favorite relatives to visit. He was always really nice to me. My family kept a discrete watch over me and I was never left alone with him. I had no idea I was being watched or monitored by my parents. I do wonder now if he was nice to try and groom me though. Ick. 

On another note, my dad had a coworker go to jail for the types of crimes Josh has done/is charged with. He collected Precious Moments figurines at work. Before the coworker was charged, he tried to get dad to introduce me to him. Dad refused and stopped keeping pictures of me on his desk. 

I am forever grateful I was protected by my dad in a way that didn't frighten me or sexualize me. I didn't even know until years later. He taught me self-defense and to be alert and aware in general.  That's what a father's umbrella of protection SHOULD be. And what JB utterly failed to do for his kids. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

13 minutes ago, Free Felicity said:

I agree that the other siblings shouldn't be judged by Josh's actions. Judging them for the horrendous actions of their brother doesn't hurt Josh, it hurts his victims after all.

I didn't know until I was an adult, but one of my great uncles did something sexually inappropriate to my grandmother at a young age. She came from a large, depression era family. As far as I know the rest of her siblings were outstanding citizens. 

My great uncle who was the perpetrator had been one of my favorite relatives to visit. He was always really nice to me. My family kept a discrete watch over me and I was never left alone with him. I had no idea I was being watched or monitored by my parents. I do wonder now if he was nice to try and groom me though. Ick. 

On another note, my dad had a coworker go to jail for the types of crimes Josh has done/is charged with. He collected Precious Moments figurines at work. Before the coworker was charged, he tried to get dad to introduce me to him. Dad refused and stopped keeping pictures of me on his desk. 

I am forever grateful I was protected by my dad in a way that didn't frighten me or sexualize me. I didn't even know until years later. He taught me self-defense and to be alert and aware in general.  That's what a father's umbrella of protection SHOULD be. And what JB utterly failed to do for his kids. 

I agree that no one should be tarnished because of Josh unless they actively support and enable him and we have no evidence of that happening with any of his siblings.  (JB/M and Anna...different story.)

But while I know nothing about this Spivey woman but what I read here, encouraging (or even abetting) your daughter marrying so young to another sheltered child is just a bad idea fundy or not.  And if the mom did it for the Duggar fame then shame on her, she should know those aren't coattails you want to ride.