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Justin and Claire 3: Always Beige


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20 minutes ago, nolongerIFBx said:

My mom wanted 6 kids (did not grow up fundie, just wanted to be a mom to a large family). 

My friends mother wanted 6 kids also. My friend is one of 3 kids all born in a 33 month time frame. They were all born slightly premature & after her brother was born 7 weeks early the doctors advised her mother to stop. So she did. Not sure if her parents did anything permanent to prevent having more kids though. 

Edited by Jana814
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22 minutes ago, nolongerIFBx said:

My mom wanted 6 kids (did not grow up fundie, just wanted to be a mom to a large family). She was pregnant 6 times, lost one early, lost one in the 2nd trimester and has four of us. My mom wanted to get to enjoy all of us and not have so many in diapers at the same time so we're all approximately 4 years apart. My youngest brother often declared, "I don't need 3 moms!" when we tried to help him out too much, LOL.

I wanted a big family as well, 6-7, but we tapped out at 3 as that's what we could afford to raise properly (both financially and emotional resources.)  I do resent people like Michelle and Kelly a bit for having all those kids when I did the responsible thing and stopped before my heart wanted to be done.

(not jealous of double digit numbers....I'd have lost my mind long before that with the chaos.)

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I planned to have 12 little blond stairstep children.  Think "Sound of Music". I ended up with one multiracial son. Sometimes life makes our decisions for us. By the way, my son is the best, even if he's put me through some scares. His hugs make my day. He's 48 and always has hugs for me and did for his late stepfather. 

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6 hours ago, Jana814 said:

I mentioned this before. I had a classmate in school who was the youngest of 6 kids. She & her closest age brother are only 13 months apart. After her parents had her brother they decided to have her because the closest  age sibling to him the only other girl in the family was 6 when her brother was born. 

One of my friends was that for her brother. Her parents had four kids close together and thought they were done. Eight years later got a surprise and her brother was born. Her parents' wanted him to grow up with a sibling so they decide to have one more. 

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I have no kids yet. In my head I’d like 2, maybe three at a stretch. My family is fairly small, and that’s what I’ve grown up around. My father is the oldest of three, my mother has one older sister. I have one younger brother. My mother’s sister has two kids. My father’s sisters each have one kid, with one of them being adopted. 
I’ve always been fascinated by large families, mainly at the “OMG how do the parents cope” kind of thing. I enjoy writing stories, but I’ve never given my main characters a huge number of siblings unless I’ve tried to write a “fundie” type story... yeah that’s what FJ has done to me, I sometimes have written stories as though the main character lives the fundie life...

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1 hour ago, mango_fandango said:

I sometimes have written stories as though the main character lives the fundie life...

 I have only written them where they have escaped the fundie life and how they coped.  

I always wanted at least a dozen kids.   Had three in the first five years we were married and he said no more.  So I opened an in home day care and had other people's kids for most of the day every day too, and always took in the nieces and nephews for summers and holidiays and whenever I could badger their parents into giving me them.  Then out of neccesity,  I got a 'real' job and he'd get me a puppy or kitten every few years to control the baby craving.  After about 14 years when I thought I was over it -whoops.  We had another.   Happy with that - and then five years later - a Bigger whoops.  While he was fine with the first whoops - the second time, I hadn't even told him yet, however he knew but asked me, 'I guess there is no chance you are just really really sick, is there?'   LOL!   Number five is amazing and I couldn't have gotten through the last ten years after the husband's death without him.   

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My best friend wanted a dozen kids. Turned out she and her husband are not able to. She tried IVF but didn't have any luck. She had mentioned adoption but with time kept putting it off. Then she went back to school to pursue a life's dream, she got older and it just didn't happen.

Edited by libgirl2
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I don’t know, I would want to raise my daughter to have a brilliant bunch of supportive girlfriends who would be her strength and support if something was to ever happen to me. I would love it if she thought of me as her best friend but would feel I failed her if she didn’t have some female (or male) friends she was bonded enough to have as her maid or matron of honour. (It annoys me that she called her Mum, Maid of Honour when she is married and therefore matron of honour but ho hum). 
I wanted my daughter to be all rounded. I want a massive part of her heart but I don’t want to be the be all and end all. 
plus I wanna walk her down the aisle. Oops nearly spelt that isle... dreaming of a holiday lol. 
I don’t know, how does everyone else feel? 

40CAF52D-9F0D-4ADA-AFC7-BFDC37BB2322.png

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My mom is not my best friend. My parents and I are extremely close in a hybrid of friend and parent since I moved away for grad school. Now I live 20 minutes away and we still talk every day even just with a few texts. The relationship I have with them could not simply be called friendship - it's so much more involved than the relationship I have with my friends. Besides, many friends come and go but my parents will be central to my life until they pass. I hope to be so lucky with my child(ren).

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I get along well enough with my Mum, I had a happy childhood and I love her, but it never even occurred to me to have her be a bridesmaid. I had my sister as maid of honour. My sister really is my best friend, in a way that I think she only could be because she's a peer, from the same generation, sharing many of the same life experiences (including shared opinions of various aspects of our parents' parenting). I tell her everything and there have been times of crisis in both our lives where we've supported one another before our Mum has even been aware that there was anything going on. We knew about each other's pregnancies before our parents did, too. I see my two daughters together and they adore each other, playing together all the time and hugging and making gifts for one another, and while I do hope that they stay close as they grow I'm conscious of not projecting my own experiences onto them. Ultimately, I just hope they each have someone in their lives who they can rely on and laugh with and trust the way I have my sister, whether that's each other or a friend or me. But I doubt it will be me. My role as a mother is just... different.

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I've brought this up before, but in the American South, the tradition for the groom is to ask dad to be the best man. I've known at least two people who've done that, so in that sense it's less weird to me. 

That being said Hillary acts very immature and I'm not sure this particular mother-daughter bond seems healthy. 

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I agree. I don’t want to be my daughters best friend. I am not her peer. I want to be her mother. I think even adults need parents from time to time, even when the roles even out a bit more. I most definitely don’t want my mother to be my friend. I love her and we share an extremely close bond, but it’s not friendship. Maybe I feel so strongly over this because I have only my mother left? Loosing a parent has definitely given me another perspective on how much a good parent-child relationship gives you, even when you are all grown up. I love how our relationship has evolved. I don’t exactly need her help anymore, but I enjoy the safety, unconditional (sometimes tough) love and wisdom I know I can always count on. I don‘t know if I can articulate myself well here. Because our relationship definitely has friendship like traits, but we are very much in agreement that it is not.

On another note: big gaps between children. My youngest brother is 8 years younger and we definitely clicked much more than me and our middle brother (5 years younger). While those two definitely are extremely close and substituted for friends to each other from time to time, the bigger gap never hindered us to connect. I think 1-3 years is good because they can be playmates on a similar level, but for a bigger gap I would definitely aim for 7+ years. At 5 I was not able to connect well to a baby/toddler at 8 I had more patients and could adapt on purpose to his play. While I love both, the younger and I share a very close bond, especially as adults. So whoever has a big gap- it doesn’t mean your children will grow up to be distant. Certain age stages also bring certain levels and kinds of closeness.

Edited by just_ordinary
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When I was about 5 and had recently attended the wedding of my dad's cousin, I told my mom she would be my matron of honor. She smiled and said thank you, then said I wouldn't feel that way when it was time for me to actually get married. And she was right--I had my best friend since age 8 be my MOH, and did the same for her. (I have one brother and she's an only child, so we're the closest to sisters either of us have.) Of course my mom was an important part of my wedding, but she would have felt silly standing up there with my friends and my teenage cousin, and I don't blame her. Hilary seems to have no such reservations. 

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18 hours ago, Not that josh's mom said:

I planned to have 12 little blond stairstep children.  Think "Sound of Music". I ended up with one multiracial son. Sometimes life makes our decisions for us. By the way, my son is the best, even if he's put me through some scares. His hugs make my day. He's 48 and always has hugs for me and did for his late stepfather. 

"Sometimes life makes our decisions for us" - yes - this 
I wanted 2-3 kids.... infertility happened, and then thankfully adoption happened and we have one little boy. When I mention adopting another my husband says "nope - we're too old to begin the training again.... We're still recovering from the first one." 
And he's right. I think having a sibling would have been good for my kiddo but - I'm content. 

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I have a sister that is 15 years older than me who moved out for college when I was 3. I'm not really sure how to describe our relationship. We love each other and keep in touch, but I wouldn't say we are close (though as I get older it's easier of course, and she was able to bring me to take your daughter to work day at one point, which was fun!). 

I also have a sister who is 10 years younger than me. Her and I have become actually really close as we've both developed more passion for liberal politics (and smoking weed together, lol). But she also has three brothers that are between 12-15 years older than her and she has varying levels of relationships with them, going from non existent to talk occasionally.

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Sure, the concept of being close to my parents sounds nice (if my dad were not abusive, my mom were still alive, etc.).

However, from a fundie perspective, you’re brainwashed from a young age into being enmeshed with your parents, even siblings. They call it “best friends.” I think it’s more like co-dependency, which is why these kids don’t know how to leave-and-cleave or go off and make their own friends.

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On 3/16/2021 at 9:06 AM, just_ordinary said:

It’s always interesting how different family sizes are judged. Here, a family with four children is a BIG family (no difference between urban and rural, north/south/east/west). More is mostly met with extreme suspicion. 

Haha, I’m from the Netherlands and here it is the same, over 3 kids and people will probably wonder if you’re part of a religious sect. I know one family with 4 kids and the youngest two are twins. 

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On 3/19/2021 at 4:37 PM, starlight0229 said:

My husband and I bought a 5 bedroom house, and at the time I didn't want children. Now we are one and done, with no intention of using more than two bedrooms for regular sleeping. One is a theater room, one is a guest room and the other one will one day be my library after we clear out all of my late MIL's things that wound up being stored in there. 

I’ve always wanted a library room. A whole room with book shelves covering all four walls. A huge armchair - the type  that ‘hugs’ you when sitting in it. A reading lamp perfectly placed. A door with a lock to keep out the world. A kettle corner for a quick ‘cuppa’ and a drinks fridge for when a cuppa just isn’t enough. 
Never going to happen sadly. 

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5 hours ago, Smee said:

I get along well enough with my Mum, I had a happy childhood and I love her, but it never even occurred to me to have her be a bridesmaid. I had my sister as maid of honour. My sister really is my best friend, in a way that I think she only could be because she's a peer, from the same generation, sharing many of the same life experiences (including shared opinions of various aspects of our parents' parenting). I tell her everything and there have been times of crisis in both our lives where we've supported one another before our Mum has even been aware that there was anything going on. We knew about each other's pregnancies before our parents did, too. I see my two daughters together and they adore each other, playing together all the time and hugging and making gifts for one another, and while I do hope that they stay close as they grow I'm conscious of not projecting my own experiences onto them. Ultimately, I just hope they each have someone in their lives who they can rely on and laugh with and trust the way I have my sister, whether that's each other or a friend or me. But I doubt it will be me. My role as a mother is just... different.

I adored my mother, she was the greatest mom ever, but no she was the mother of the bride and my best friend of 15 years was my maid of honor (as I was hers). I am still best friends with her now going on 42 years.

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I once worked with someone who’s mother was her matron of honor & her husband’s father was the best man. The reason. They had a very small wedding under 30 guests. They needed witnesses so they choice their parents. 
 

I watch Say yes to the dress: Atlanta. They did a special on the owner’s son getting married. His father was his best man. Her son & his wife had a large bridal party but he had his dad as his best man. I thought it was sweet. 

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17 minutes ago, Jana814 said:

I once worked with someone who’s mother was her matron of honor & her husband’s father was the best man. The reason. They had a very small wedding under 30 guests. They needed witnesses so they choice their parents. 
 

I watch Say yes to the dress: Atlanta. They did a special on the owner’s son getting married. His father was his best man. Her son & his wife had a large bridal party but he had his dad as his best man. I thought it was sweet. 

That is sweet.

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On 3/18/2021 at 12:59 PM, SassyPants said:

I think family size can be determined by 2 opposing schools of thought, particularly among the youngest generation. 1) This one coming from my 30 YO son. Why would I bring a child into THIS world? The cost, the time, the resources, the environment. And 2), for those with 3, 4 or more kids. Why not. Kids are 1 thing 1 CAN have. Might not be able to have affordable housing, healthcare or education but I can have a kid. 

I think you're oversimplifying, TBH, especially on the 3+; although I have seen the "against" argument in all sincerity and can understand it, I suspect that's not the only reason for a lot of childfree people, either. I have two, would like to have at least one more, and it's not "Kids are the one thing I can have"; it's that I love my kids and would like to have another/don't feel "done" with having babies, and probably informed by being one of three kids myself.

2 hours ago, Gobsmacked said:

I’ve always wanted a library room. A whole room with book shelves covering all four walls. A huge armchair - the type  that ‘hugs’ you when sitting in it. A reading lamp perfectly placed. A door with a lock to keep out the world. A kettle corner for a quick ‘cuppa’ and a drinks fridge for when a cuppa just isn’t enough. 
Never going to happen sadly. 

Oh, this would be perfect! (Well with maybe a coffeemaker and my yarn stuff, too.) If I had enough bedrooms I would totally do that.

Re. mothers and daughters being friends, I think it's certainly possible, but that's very much something that only happens with both being adults with agency, and even then you're not "just" friends, because you'd always have a mother/daughter relationship. If one is dependent on the other, whether by dint of age or circumstance, you're not friends. That's my take, anyway.

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I always wanted around 6 children growing up. I really thought it would happen easily - I'd meet someone and get married around aged 24 and then start having my family. 

I'm 35, single, and childless. Sometimes it just doesn't happen. 

My mom is one of the closest people in my life, but she isn't my best friend. If I ever did get married, I know she would be a huge support for me, but I wouldn't have her in the wedding party - I'd have my actual friends. I agree that it seems odd that Hilary was in the wedding party but the whole thing itself is odd so whatever. 

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I think the ideal adult child/parent relationship is closer to friends than parent/child. You'll always be their child, but they shouldn't be parenting too much or at all; they should be standing back and trying to let you figure things out. 

The fundies are good examples of how parenting into adulthood is incredibly limiting. See Steve and Teri Maxwell, JB and Michelle Duggar, etc. 

Of course the fundies show the dangers of being friends with your parents. I assume women like Kelly Bates, use their friendship to try to keep their kids fundie.

In general as an adult you should realize your parents are not infallible, and therefore their advice is not necessarily better than anyone else's. 

 

Edited by Bluebirdbluebell
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35 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

In general as an adult you should realize your parents are not infallible, and therefore their advice is not necessarily better than anyone else's. 

In my case, I would phrase it that my parents are not infallible, but I trust their advice on many subjects more than most people's advice. The same thing with my siblings and some long time friends. I trust advice from people I've known for a long time, because I have a sense of their attitudes, the soundness of their judgement, and the areas of knowledge that they have.

For example, contrary to stereotypes that women, especially older women, are ignorant in automotive matters, my 80-something year old mom is a good source of general car knowledge for me. The last time I had a car problem (terrible grinding noise as I went down the street) she quickly pointed out my most likely trouble and the easiest way to see if she was right. 

I don't live my life at my parents' direction, but I like getting their input, because I value their experience and judgement. Or maybe I'm just a mama's girl? :teasing-binkybaby:

ETA--My mom wasn't my MOH, though. My sister was. :)

Edited by WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?
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