Joe & Kendra 15: Mother/Daughter Pregnancies are So Not Icky

[GuineaPigCourtship]

Wow, the last thing I'd want after birth (while still healing externally and wearing mesh underwear with a giant pad) would be to road trip with 2 toddlers plus my infant. Add leaky sore boobs into dress clothes and that is a resounding HELL NO.

Boy, I hope Joe is an involved dad who helped out.

[freethemall]

2 hours ago, VBOY9977 said:

From the Caldwells’ ig, it looks like Kendra and Brooklyn made it to Claritin’s out of state wedding 1 week after the birth ?

I mean, it doesn’t come as much of a surprise since Kendra was a bridesmaid for Lauren 3 weeks after giving birth to Garrett, but she still had to be super uncomfortable. Also, no one was wearing masks so I hope the freaking one week old didn’t get anything. 
 

  Hide contents

 

I think in their being a fertility cult, they encourage and love showing off recently post partum moms bouncing right back into normal life instead of resting in sweatpants and milk stained nursing tops with a 3 day old bun like the rest of us. Several cases in point besides Kendra at now 2 weddings, such as Alyssa (Bates) Webster who has a 3 week old and whose Instagram right now is of her in full hair and makeup helping with renovations. In a video story,  her sister Carlin talks about how amazing it is that Alyssa is doing that. Previously we saw her travel with fresh newborns too. I wish they would be as enthusiastic for like "look at my beautiful sister resting and practicing self-care and not forcing herself physically or mentally,  what a hero!"

[CarrotCake]

With the SiRen wedding it was at least close to their home (right?) so she did not have to travel far or sleep in a hotel and the could be home quite fast after the wedding. 
 

With this wedding in Texas it is crazy that they went. I wonder if she was pushed by the family to go.

[Travelfan]

I think it’s probably a matter of personal choice. Some moms want to jump right back into doing things and are happy to take their newborns out. I was one of those. I stopped at 2 kids, but they are 17 months apart. I had C-Sections so I had a 2 week recovery where I wasn’t allowed to drive. With my second baby on the day I hit 2 weeks I packed both kids up in the car and hit the mall. My husband was back at work so it was just me and a 2 week old and a 17 month old. I really wanted newborn pics and back them you went to places like JC Penney’s or Sears. I got the kids pictures, and then we went to the play area so my daughter could run around while I fed the baby.  I probably would have been the person at a wedding with a 1 week old.

[GreenBeans]

8 hours ago, freethemall said:

I think in their being a fertility cult, they encourage and love showing off recently post partum moms bouncing right back into normal life instead of resting in sweatpants and milk stained nursing tops with a 3 day old bun like the rest of us. Several cases in point besides Kendra at now 2 weddings, such as Alyssa (Bates) Webster who has a 3 week old and whose Instagram right now is of her in full hair and makeup helping with renovations. In a video story,  her sister Carlin talks about how amazing it is that Alyssa is doing that. Previously we saw her travel with fresh newborns too. I wish they would be as enthusiastic for like "look at my beautiful sister resting and practicing self-care and not forcing herself physically or mentally,  what a hero!"

At least where I live general consensus among OBGYNs and midwives is that women are advised to bed rest (!) as much as possible for at least 3 weeks after a birth, avoid any heavy lifting (including babies in car seats), and start practicing pelvic floor exercises as soon as possible. The reason? If you don’t, there is a high probability of ending up incontinent a few years down the road, the more births you go through and the less you rest, the earlier and more likely.
 

This wasn’t discussed openly and pretty much neglected in our mothers’ and grandmothers’ generation because everyone felt embarrassed about it, but it’s an anatomical fact and so so so important. I worry that many of these fundie women will end up incontinent fairly young because they never took the time to rest after birth.

[tabitha2]

That’s not realistic for all but the most privileged women though. Privileged as in Family and a significant other who cares enough and is close enough to be on hand constantly to take care of domestic matters. And Let’s not mention being able to take off work that long for many women. Not very many women are going to be ok with being immobile that long either. 

[GreenBeans]

3 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

That’s not realistic for all but the most privileged women though. Privileged as in Family and a significant other who cares enough and is close enough to be on hand constantly to take care of domestic matters. And Let’s not mention being able to take off work that long for many women. Not very many women are going to be ok with being immobile that long either. 

I’m well aware that may not work out for everyone, just saying what the recommendation is.

Where I live (Germany) paid maternal leave (full salary) after birth is mandatory, so even if you wanted to go back to work earlier, you wouldn’t be allowed by law. And there are 14 months of paid parental leave (2 months of which can only be taken by the child’s father) at 60% of the salary (however capped at 1,800€), so it’s actually quite common here for men to take one or two months or paternal leave when their child is born, both to develop a closer relationship to their child, and to help the mom recover from the birth. And your job is protected during parental leave, so the employer cannot fire you.

Yes, compared to the US and many other countries that’s a privileged situation, but honestly, it’s not like these fundie women have a corporate job to return to, and it’s not like they don’t have enough people around (siblings, aunts, other relatives, women from church etc.) which could help them and take the housework off their hands.

[Meggo]

16 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

Wow, the last thing I'd want after birth (while still healing externally and wearing mesh underwear with a giant pad) would be to road trip with 2 toddlers plus my infant. Add leaky sore boobs into dress clothes and that is a resounding HELL NO.

Boy, I hope Joe is an involved dad who helped out.

I haven't recovered from a birth - but I remember a few family parties when my kiddo was a wee little lump like that - that I never even saw him. Someone would swoop down and want to snuggle the new baby (not a fertility cult - just a GIANT family with tons of kids) and off he'd go. 
Granted- he's 8 now - so well before covid etc - and I don't know that I'd be on board with that now -but I'm sure a lot of people just want to hold her. And the other two are also off being entertained. And it's not like it was going to be a late night of (oh the horror) drinking and dancing. 

[AprilQuilt]

19 minutes ago, Meggo said:

I haven't recovered from a birth - but I remember a few family parties when my kiddo was a wee little lump like that - that I never even saw him. Someone would swoop down and want to snuggle the new baby (not a fertility cult - just a GIANT family with tons of kids) and off he'd go. 
Granted- he's 8 now - so well before covid etc - and I don't know that I'd be on board with that now -but I'm sure a lot of people just want to hold her. And the other two are also off being entertained. And it's not like it was going to be a late night of (oh the horror) drinking and dancing. 

a week after birth I don't think I'd have coped with that very well. I couldn't really bear to have her too far from me for too long. I can't really articulate it - just had this anxious, nagging, pacing-animal kind of feeling til she was back in my arms. It stressed me out. Obviously YMMV, but it's not always easy to just hand them over. Plus mine was a refluxy little bugger (CMPA) and liable to cry and puke on anyone who didn't have the knack. It was exhausting.

2 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

I’m well aware that may not work out for everyone, just saying what the recommendation is.

Where I live (Germany) paid maternal leave (full salary) after birth is mandatory, so even if you wanted to go back to work earlier, you wouldn’t be allowed by law. And there are 14 months of paid parental leave (2 months of which can only be taken by the child’s father) at 60% of the salary (however capped at 1,800€), so it’s actually quite common here for men to take one or two months or paternal leave when their child is born, both to develop a closer relationship to their child, and to help the mom recover from the birth. And your job is protected during parental leave, so the employer cannot fire you.

Yes, compared to the US and many other countries that’s a privileged situation, but honestly, it’s not like these fundie women have a corporate job to return to, and it’s not like they don’t have enough people around (siblings, aunts, other relatives, women from church etc.) which could help them and take the housework off their hands.

there's such a world of difference between European and American maternity isn't there? I'm aghast at how cruel their system seems in its lack of provision for new parents. I remember mentioning to a professional who was handling the US element of some of my work that her UK counterpart had been on maternity leave for ten months. I watched the American woman basically turn into a human side-eye! Soooo much judgement. But in the UK it's really normal to be off with your baby for at least 9 months.

I went one step further and handed over my maternity allowance to my partner under the shared parental leave scheme. I took the mandatory month maternity leave, and then got back to my freelance work (gently, from home); my partner, the baby's father, stayed off work for a full year on a small monthly allowance from the govt. I was not alone all day with the baby like a lot of mums are on maternity leave. My partner knew exactly how much work it was to have a newborn because he was doing it too. It sidestepped a lot of the resentment and alienation that often seems to grow between new parents when their worlds become so polarised, and I think it really empowered my partner to engage with our daughter right from birth. But we were so so privileged to get to do that. And no father in my partner's workplace had ever done it before, even though they had a policy for it in theory, so we had to research it all and walk HR through every step of it. I wish it were more prevalent in the UK because it's so beneficial to fathers and to mothers.

Incidentally a study in Spain showed that men who took paternity leave wanted fewer children, I guess because they are bonded with the ones they have and understand the work involved. It's less of a status thing to have a wife popping them out when you then have to take care of them. Maybe Joe could think about that.

[GuineaPigCourtship]

I'm from the USA and my husband was lucky enough to get 6 weeks off. His work got the benefit of saving on payroll (we saved a lot for my maternity leave) during covid plus his boss's wife had severe postpartum depression so he has more respect for a father's role than most bosses seem to. In fact, everyone at my work said I'd just be taking care of 2 people instead of 1 and would want him out of the house. I loved that he could bond with our daughter from day one! For the first 3 weeks I cried every time he mentioned going back to work, but luckily I felt more prepared by week 6. We are muddling through and doing just fine.

Edited March 10, 2021 by GuineaPigCourtship
Riffles

[pupper]

I thought you weren't supposed to take tiny babies out in public (if possible) for at least a couple of weeks. Granted, my experience with tiny babies was in the late 80's and early 90's so recommendations have probably changed but still, why take a one week old on a multi hour car ride?

I also have vivid memories of my firstborn at about two months old going to a large family event and being passed around to everyone. He seemed like a little angel, sleeping in everyone's arms. Then we came home and he screamed all night. I think it was just too much stimulation for his little self. I can't imagine dealing with an inconsolable baby and two toddlers in a hotel room. 

[SassyPants]

8 minutes ago, pupper said:

I thought you weren't supposed to take tiny babies out in public (if possible) for at least a couple of weeks. Granted, my experience with tiny babies was in the late 80's and early 90's so recommendations have probably changed but still, why take a one week old on a multi hour car ride?

I also have vivid memories of my firstborn at about two months old going to a large family event and being passed around to everyone. He seemed like a little angel, sleeping in everyone's arms. Then we came home and he screamed all night. I think it was just too much stimulation for his little self. I can't imagine dealing with an inconsolable baby and two toddlers in a hotel room. 

They were probably sleeping in an RV with 20 other people- ?

[Satan'sFortress]

10 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

This wasn’t discussed openly and pretty much neglected in our mothers’ and grandmothers’ generation because everyone felt embarrassed about it, but it’s an anatomical fact and so so so important. 

Not necessarily about the incontinence part, but it made me think about my mother's and grandmother's stories of childbirth. My mom had 5 babies in the 1960s and stayed in the hospital for a full week each time. She loved it because it let her rest,  especially when she had other kids at home. I believe my grandmother stayed for even longer in the 30s and early 40s. Maybe 2 weeks? Neither one was wealthy, probably middle class/lower middle class. I guess that's what was normal then?

I had my last baby at a birth center. I was home 4 hours after the birth.  They told me to spend at least that week in bed with baby close by, but I got up right away and was out and about anyway. Ended up getting repeat mastitis, was exhausted, and suffered from what I now realize was PPD. I wish I had listened to the midwives and taken better care of myself. 

 

[GreenBeans]

4 hours ago, AprilQuilt said:

a week after birth I don't think I'd have coped with that very well. I couldn't really bear to have her too far from me for too long. I can't really articulate it - just had this anxious, nagging, pacing-animal kind of feeling til she was back in my arms. It stressed me out. Obviously YMMV, but it's not always easy to just hand them over. Plus mine was a refluxy little bugger (CMPA) and liable to cry and puke on anyone who didn't have the knack. It was exhausting.

there's such a world of difference between European and American maternity isn't there? I'm aghast at how cruel their system seems in its lack of provision for new parents. I remember mentioning to a professional who was handling the US element of some of my work that her UK counterpart had been on maternity leave for ten months. I watched the American woman basically turn into a human side-eye! Soooo much judgement. But in the UK it's really normal to be off with your baby for at least 9 months.

I went one step further and handed over my maternity allowance to my partner under the shared parental leave scheme. I took the mandatory month maternity leave, and then got back to my freelance work (gently, from home); my partner, the baby's father, stayed off work for a full year on a small monthly allowance from the govt. I was not alone all day with the baby like a lot of mums are on maternity leave. My partner knew exactly how much work it was to have a newborn because he was doing it too. It sidestepped a lot of the resentment and alienation that often seems to grow between new parents when their worlds become so polarised, and I think it really empowered my partner to engage with our daughter right from birth. But we were so so privileged to get to do that. And no father in my partner's workplace had ever done it before, even though they had a policy for it in theory, so we had to research it all and walk HR through every step of it. I wish it were more prevalent in the UK because it's so beneficial to fathers and to mothers.

Incidentally a study in Spain showed that men who took paternity leave wanted fewer children, I guess because they are bonded with the ones they have and understand the work involved. It's less of a status thing to have a wife popping them out when you then have to take care of them. Maybe Joe could think about that.

My husband is doing the same, he’s staying home for a full year (what most women do in Germany) and I went back to work after the 8 weeks of mandatory maternity leave. We’re both really happy with that set up, but it is very unusual here. The father taking two months is pretty common now, though (at least in my circles often split into one month after birth and another month just before the baby starts daycare at one year old).

I think it’s really interesting how different  not only the political/legal setting, but also the cultural perceptions are in different countries. I got side-eyed for going back to work after 8 weeks like I was some cold-hearted career woman leaving her baby “alone” (never mind I was leaving him with his father, but apparently that doesn’t count for some people *eyeroll*), because the social norm here is that women stay home from work for at least a year (for as long as there is paid - capped, but still paid to some extent - maternity leave).

[Meggo]

4 hours ago, AprilQuilt said:

a week after birth I don't think I'd have coped with that very well. I couldn't really bear to have her too far from me for too long. I can't really articulate it - just had this anxious, nagging, pacing-animal kind of feeling til she was back in my arms. It stressed me out. Obviously YMMV, but it's not always easy to just hand them over. Plus mine was a refluxy little bugger (CMPA) and liable to cry and puke on anyone who didn't have the knack. It was exhausting.

 

It might have been different because he was in the NICU for the first month of his life. So while we got to spend all the time we wanted bonding with him (he's adopted - so we didn't plan on him while he was "on the inside") but knowing all the nurses were caring for him too. And we were both working while he was in the NICU. I was banking time for my stupidly short mat leave (4 weeks because it was adoption). 
I was happy to snuggle and love up on him - but also thrilled to eat with two hands and go to the bathroom without wondering about the logistics of holding him. 
And he's one of 21 grandchildren and then probably 15 great grands - so those mommas have WAY more baby experience than I do. 

I did have to laugh when my mom said "Why does he just settle for you? He's fussy for me." 
Because I'm the momma? 

[Cheetah]

I remember taking my #3 to Target with my husband and other 2 when he was just a few days old... this was back in 2004 when the general consensus was that newborns had immunity from their mothers.  Seems like that's changed a bit... the newer mom stuff seems more conservative on that end than it was back then.  But caring for a newborn at home by myself while hubby took the older 2 for a Target run wasn't any easier than all 5 of us going together at that point.  

[kmachete14]

I had baby #1 in September and went out for date with my husband about a week after giving birth. Wearing a dress, heels, and doing my makeup helped me feel so much better. After months of maternity clothes and sickness I finally felt sexy. I obviously still had a giant pad under my date dress but I felt like a million bucks. I don’t think it’s fair to judge moms for how they choose to spend their postpartum time as long as baby and mom are well mentally and physically. 
 

Sometimes I feel like the media is anti-birth and there is so much negativity around childbirth and being a new mom. Obviously there are serious misogynistic practices in American prenatal & postnatal care, and a lot of challenges that aren’t mentioned in sex Ed (post partum anxiety, painful nursing, hemorrhoids, etc) but having a baby isn’t the end of your life/body/relationship like social media made me think.
 

Everyone’s experience is different. I wish positive experiences got as much “press” as negative experiences. 
 

this is not about fundie postpartum social media tho lol. I don’t trust what they post and think it’s all propaganda!!!! 

[Iamtheway]

Sweden has very generous parental leave that is divided equally between the parents. You can give days to eachother and it’s still the norm that the mum takes a bit more but most of my male friends have taken at least six months. 
My husband was studying when Miniway was born and during his first 18 months so he was at home most of the time anyway and I started working a few hours a week from home when Miniway was 3 months old so we were both at home but could still save days. We still have some and he just turned 7. 
My husband use them for school holidays. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

According to Duggar Data, Joe and Kendra had their half-year anniversary on Monday.  They've been married 3 and a half years. 

[IsmeWeatherwax]

I was very lucky with my four births and recoveries. 3 were induced and last one a home birth. I was always up showered make up on and dressed. Even now, youngest is 13 next week, if Im not up dressed and ready I feel like im poorly. Yes I am quite strange lol The youngest takes the biscuit tho, he was born early hours of Good friday, 10lb 6.5oz home birth, and a hemorrhage later... on the sunday Im out in the car going to the shops before driving to visit sister for dinner. I have to add, I was single mother to 4 children, my sister worked full time, and my dad was elderly, I didnt have a choice. 

[just_ordinary]

11 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

I'm from the USA and my husband was lucky enough to get 6 weeks off. His work got the benefit of saving on payroll (we saved a lot for my maternity leave) during covid plus his boss's wife had severe postpartum depression so he has more respect for a father's role than most bosses seem to. In fact, everyone at my work said I'd just be taking care of 2 people instead of 1 and would want him out of the house. I loved that he could bond with our daughter from day one! For the first 3 weeks I cried every time he mentioned going back to work, but luckily I felt more prepared by week 6. We are muddling through and doing just fine.

If someone really fears their partner would be a second child to take care of, the should have a close look at their choice of partner. I find this completely strange? I know it sounds harsh but in my generation(+-30) a majority of women expects their partner to be a fully functional adult, able to manage work and home on their own. I am so happy my husband was at home for 8 weeks, especially after my c-section (even tough I was pretty fit after two weeks) and then the stay at home parent for some month. We both also had a part time work scheme going for some months (under the parental leave set up) which was stressful but worth it. I always look in horror at fathers completely useless with their own children. 

11 hours ago, pupper said:

I thought you weren't supposed to take tiny babies out in public (if possible) for at least a couple of weeks. Granted, my experience with tiny babies was in the late 80's and early 90's so recommendations have probably changed but still, why take a one week old on a multi hour car ride?

I also have vivid memories of my firstborn at about two months old going to a large family event and being passed around to everyone. He seemed like a little angel, sleeping in everyone's arms. Then we came home and he screamed all night. I think it was just too much stimulation for his little self. I can't imagine dealing with an inconsolable baby and two toddlers in a hotel room. 

Interesting. Here we believe in bringing them out, at best every day. Maybe not extremely crowded places but being active (as much as you feel is good) and bring the baby outside for some time is definitely what many do. I am not actually sure if doctors/nurses actually recommend it or if it is an unconscious mindset many perpetuate? I know our baby spent at least one weekend around the wider family every month from birth and till COVID. Including a 2h drive and lots of people gushing over her. She is the first great-/grandchild, that obviously makes it a novelty and everyone is into it (for now).

The over stimulation effect is definitely something we learned pretty quickly and found a way to make it easier on baby and us. I will say, I might extremely happy when I see that she has a real bond with her great grandmothers. It’s definitely rare these days and I think it’s wonderful for both sides.

Edited March 11, 2021 by just_ordinary

[CarrotCake]

2 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

According to Duggar Data, Joe and Kendra had their half-year anniversary on Monday.  They've been married 3 and a half years. 

And assuming 40 weeks of pregnancy she has been pregnant 66% of it.

[aprilx]

On 3/10/2021 at 12:55 PM, GreenBeans said:

At least where I live general consensus among OBGYNs and midwives is that women are advised to bed rest (!) as much as possible for at least 3 weeks after a birth, avoid any heavy lifting (including babies in car seats), and start practicing pelvic floor exercises as soon as possible. The reason? If you don’t, there is a high probability of ending up incontinent a few years down the road, the more births you go through and the less you rest, the earlier and more likely.
 

This wasn’t discussed openly and pretty much neglected in our mothers’ and grandmothers’ generation because everyone felt embarrassed about it, but it’s an anatomical fact and so so so important. I worry that many of these fundie women will end up incontinent fairly young because they never took the time to rest after birth.

not quite true! Bed rest would give you risk of DVT/blood clots. It is best to be up and out of bed , hopefully pottering around with rest when you need it/are able and no heavy lifting. 

[xenobia]

If they (just as a theory) had any pilots and planes in the Duggar clan, it's totally possible that JoKen went to Texas just for the day - flying over there in the morning, getting home late that evening. That would also save them the cost of a hotel room in Texas. 

Oh, if there'd only been pilots... 

[nolongerIFBx]

We talked about paternity leave in a family sociology class I took and this article was pointed out that paternity leave was unfair to women because men used paternity leave to work and the women used maternity leave to care for their child: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/26/business/tenure-extension-policies-that-put-women-at-a-disadvantage.html

Not knocking paternity leave (I think men should take more responsibility for caring for their offspring) but it seems that isn't always how it is used and makes the divide between the genders even worse.

Edited March 11, 2021 by nolongerIFBx