Joy & Austin 31: Adding Evelyn Mae

[purple_summer]

On 1/24/2021 at 1:30 AM, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I find this story a little hard to believe, but if it's true, your father sounds awful and I'm sorry you went through that.  

Anyway just because some fundies don't sue, doesn't mean everyone won't sue. It depends on the person and how bad the injuries are.  I think it's incredibly stupid that Austin and his family are incredibly to count on everyone who visits the camp not suing. Also they morally responsible for any injuries that occur, because the camp is lax on safety precautions. 

Lots of conservative Christians don’t believe in suing other Christmas. I have a relative that went blind from medical malpractice and didn’t sue for this reason. 
 

Not the norm but they do exist. 

[raayx01]

In Joy's new video about visiting Carlin for Layla's first b-day, I found it interesting that Compared to Spurgeon and Henry, Gideon Seems very much like a about to be three year old boy. He's just running all over the place and like to build and destroy, which probably has a little to do with Austin taking him to work all the time, but Spurgeon and Henry seems very breakable, like their dads philosophy is coming onto them, They only really have trains and books to play with because of Jessa while Gideon gets dump trucks and cars and toys galore. Ive also noticed that Gideon is about to turn 3 and honestly talks a lot better and clearer than Henry who is about to turn four, I know Henyr had that speech delay, but I feel like it has something more to do with the parenting styles than just every Childs unique natural development.

[viii]

1 hour ago, raayx01 said:

I found it interesting that Compared to Spurgeon and Henry, Gideon Seems very much like a about to be three year old boy. He's just running all over the place and like to build and destroy, which probably has a little to do with Austin taking him to work all the time, but Spurgeon and Henry seems very breakable, like their dads philosophy is coming onto them, They only really have trains and books to play with because of Jessa while Gideon gets dump trucks and cars and toys galore. Ive also noticed that Gideon is about to turn 3 and honestly talks a lot better and clearer than Henry who is about to turn four, I know Henyr had that speech delay, but I feel like it has something more to do with the parenting styles than just every Childs unique natural development.

Every child is different and different playing styles doesn't make one better than the other. This sounds a lot like Gideon is a REAL boy because he does MANLY things. 

[EmiSue]

3 hours ago, raayx01 said:

In Joy's new video about visiting Carlin for Layla's first b-day, I found it interesting that Compared to Spurgeon and Henry, Gideon Seems very much like a about to be three year old boy. He's just running all over the place and like to build and destroy, which probably has a little to do with Austin taking him to work all the time, but Spurgeon and Henry seems very breakable, like their dads philosophy is coming onto them, They only really have trains and books to play with because of Jessa while Gideon gets dump trucks and cars and toys galore. Ive also noticed that Gideon is about to turn 3 and honestly talks a lot better and clearer than Henry who is about to turn four, I know Henyr had that speech delay, but I feel like it has something more to do with the parenting styles than just every Childs unique natural development.

Please don't imply that kids who speak clearly have better parents than those with a delay. My son had speech therapy from ages 2-4 and still mispronounces certain things at age 6. I'm far from perfect, but I didn't do or not do something to make my son struggle to speak. I hope that's not what you meant, but it is what you said and it can be very hurtful to those who've been there. 

[GreenBeans]

7 hours ago, EmiSue said:

Please don't imply that kids who speak clearly have better parents than those with a delay. My son had speech therapy from ages 2-4 and still mispronounces certain things at age 6. I'm far from perfect, but I didn't do or not do something to make my son struggle to speak. I hope that's not what you meant, but it is what you said and it can be very hurtful to those who've been there. 

Absolutely! I think the most important thing is for parents to be aware and seek help if their child is struggling with a milestone.

The tragedy is - Jessa and Ben may have gotten help for Henry, with speech therapy, but what will happen if baby no. 10 or 14 misses a milestone? Will they even notice? Will they have the time and energy to arrange for doctor’s appointments, speed therapy, not only taking said child to therapy but also keeping up with doing the exercises at home?

No matter how much love there is for children, once parents get beyond a certain number (which I think is closer to 3 or 4 than 10), there just won’t be enough time in the day to take care of all children and meeting anything beyond very basic needs, much less with home school or a special needs child in the mix.

We have a very young child currently, and so far he’s an only child (and will likely stay one), but I can already tell parenting takes TIME if you want to do it right. It’s not just feeding and changing diapers. The countless hours we spend playing with him, talking with him, engaging with him... that’s not just “nice to have”, these things are so important development-wise - even for a child meeting all its milestones. Fundie children in big families don’t get that kind of parenting - even leaving aside some of those abhorrent beliefs, there just isn’t enough time in each day, no matter the good intentions. 

[DalmatianCat]

2 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

 

The tragedy is - Jessa and Ben may have gotten help for Henry, with speech therapy, but what will happen if baby no. 10 or 14 misses a milestone? Will they even notice? Will they have the time and energy to arrange for doctor’s appointments, speed therapy, not only taking said child to therapy but also keeping up with doing the exercises at home?

I don’t see Jessa and Ben getting to 14 kids. Maybe they’ll get to 10 if they have twins at some point, but Ivy turns two in four months and Jessa is 28 (still young enough to have several more but she’s clearly not in a rush). Just a guess, but I think being intentional with their children is a big priority for Jessa and Ben and they’re being cautious to make sure they can maintain that. I think they just haven’t felt like sharing how they’re going about spacing their family yet.

[freethemall]

Has anyone watched Joy's Q&A video? It's pretty dull. The most interesting question asked her about why she appears to be happier lately, to which she responded a very keep sweet mentality of "happy is circumstantial, joy comes from the lord". Joy is definitely Michelle 2.0.

[medimus]

3 hours ago, freethemall said:

Has anyone watched Joy's Q&A video? It's pretty dull. The most interesting question asked her about why she appears to be happier lately, to which she responded a very keep sweet mentality of "happy is circumstantial, joy comes from the lord". Joy is definitely Michelle 2.0.

I noticed that too. It seemed very 'parroted back' as if she had heard this over and over again.

[baldricks_turnip]

I also thought that was the most interesting part. She followed it by saying she's often guilty of feeling unhappy because she's had a bad day or happy when she's having a good day. I hate that she- a young woman with small children- has been convinced she isn't allowed to feel whatever she wants to feel.

[Jana814]

11 minutes ago, baldricks_turnip said:

I also thought that was the most interesting part. She followed it by saying she's often guilty of feeling unhappy because she's had a bad day or happy when she's having a good day. I hate that she- a young woman with small children- has been convinced she isn't allowed to feel whatever she wants to feel.

Are some women in fundie families told they aren’t allowed to have feelings. The only feeling they are allowed to feel is joy. 

[HeartsAFundie]

On 2/2/2021 at 1:54 AM, GreenBeans said:

Absolutely! I think the most important thing is for parents to be aware and seek help if their child is struggling with a milestone.

The tragedy is - Jessa and Ben may have gotten help for Henry, with speech therapy, but what will happen if baby no. 10 or 14 misses a milestone? Will they even notice? Will they have the time and energy to arrange for doctor’s appointments, speed therapy, not only taking said child to therapy but also keeping up with doing the exercises at home?

No matter how much love there is for children, once parents get beyond a certain number (which I think is closer to 3 or 4 than 10), there just won’t be enough time in the day to take care of all children and meeting anything beyond very basic needs, much less with home school or a special needs child in the mix.

We have a very young child currently, and so far he’s an only child (and will likely stay one), but I can already tell parenting takes TIME if you want to do it right. It’s not just feeding and changing diapers. The countless hours we spend playing with him, talking with him, engaging with him... that’s not just “nice to have”, these things are so important development-wise - even for a child meeting all its milestones. Fundie children in big families don’t get that kind of parenting - even leaving aside some of those abhorrent beliefs, there just isn’t enough time in each day, no matter the good intentions. 

This is so true.  My dad's best friend's sister and her husband-Catholics, not fundies-had 10 kids. Both worked full-time as educators in the town's public school system.  The first child was born in 1955 and the last child in 1974.  My dad always told me that 10 kids were way too many to have, keep track of and raise properly, especially with two working parents.   The kids end up shifting for themselves most of the time because there's just not enough supervision to go around.

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by HeartsAFundie

[Meggo]

1 hour ago, HeartsAFundie said:

This is so true.  My dad's best friend's sister and her husband-Catholics, not fundies-had 10 kids. Both worked full-time as educators in the town's public school system.  The first child was born in 1955 and the last child in 1974.  My dad always told me that 10 kids were way too many to have, keep track of and raise properly, especially with two working parents.   The kids end up shifting for themselves most of the time because there's just not enough supervision to go around.

 

I had a friend in middle school who was the oldest of 7 when I knew her (so she was 13-14 and had a brand new baby brother). And honestly - she was barely an afterthought to her parents. She was the oldest, and a girl, and baby sitting age, so got stuck minding the boys (all the other kids were boys) while her dad sold real estate and her mom was a nurse. Even at 13 or 14 - *I* knew there was no way to properly manage all those kids. 
And my husband was one of 10. It's a different experience - likely no one is tucking you every night and reading you, JUST YOU stories. They don't have TIME to do anything individual, even with some of his oldest siblings leaving to get married (SUPER young) while some of the younger ones were being born... there just isn't enough Parent to go around (and if there is someone there - they're pooped from trying to wrangle 10 kids). His oldest sisters were definitely sister Moms... 

[HeartsAFundie]

48 minutes ago, Meggo said:

I had a friend in middle school who was the oldest of 7 when I knew her (so she was 13-14 and had a brand new baby brother). And honestly - she was barely an afterthought to her parents. She was the oldest, and a girl, and baby sitting age, so got stuck minding the boys (all the other kids were boys) while her dad sold real estate and her mom was a nurse. Even at 13 or 14 - *I* knew there was no way to properly manage all those kids. 
And my husband was one of 10. It's a different experience - likely no one is tucking you every night and reading you, JUST YOU stories. They don't have TIME to do anything individual, even with some of his oldest siblings leaving to get married (SUPER young) while some of the younger ones were being born... there just isn't enough Parent to go around (and if there is someone there - they're pooped from trying to wrangle 10 kids). His oldest sisters were definitely sister Moms... 

It's funny you mention the oldest siblings marrying young. In the family we knew, the oldest daughter got married young-presumably to get out of the house and so as not to get stuck being a sister-mom.  And sadly, some of the kids in that family ended up having issues.  The oldest son died from a drug overdose; the son closest to my age took off to the Midwest, leaving his wife and kids, got involved with meth labs and has gone AWOL/off the grid; and another ended up homeless.  I don't know if he's still alive.   

We visited the house once, in the late 70s during February school vacation.  The two youngest kids who were pre-school age at the time were running all over the house unsupervised and writing on the walls with markers and crayons, and the 6 or 7 other kids still at home were pretty much doing their own thing, running in and out at different times and keeping their own schedules.  The home seemed more like a base where people just ate and slept as opposed to being a real home.  Honestly, it was chaos.      

Edited February 12, 2021 by HeartsAFundie

[Bluebirdbluebell]

I never get the Catholic not fundie distinction. If a Catholic has a large quiver, they're probably fundie Catholic. There are many ways to practice Catholicism including less legalistic ways. Catholic fundies are as toxic to the world as other fundies. 

[HeartsAFundie]

50 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I never get the Catholic not fundie distinction. If a Catholic has a large quiver, they're probably fundie Catholic. There are many ways to practice Catholicism including less legalistic ways. Catholic fundies are as toxic to the world as other fundies. 

Very good point. There are Catholic families out there that could rival the Duggars with religious devotion.  Especially the Charismatic Catholics.  We knew a few of those and yeah, they definitely could take on the fundies.  

The folks I was referring to weren't big churchgoers and seemingly only subscribed to the "be fruitful and multiply" and "no birth control" tenets of the Catholic religion.  Otherwise, there was nothing at all religious about them. 

[tanba]

2 hours ago, Meggo said:

I had a friend in middle school who was the oldest of 7 when I knew her (so she was 13-14 and had a brand new baby brother). And honestly - she was barely an afterthought to her parents. She was the oldest, and a girl, and baby sitting age, so got stuck minding the boys (all the other kids were boys) while her dad sold real estate and her mom was a nurse. Even at 13 or 14 - *I* knew there was no way to properly manage all those kids. 
And my husband was one of 10. It's a different experience - likely no one is tucking you every night and reading you, JUST YOU stories. They don't have TIME to do anything individual, even with some of his oldest siblings leaving to get married (SUPER young) while some of the younger ones were being born... there just isn't enough Parent to go around (and if there is someone there - they're pooped from trying to wrangle 10 kids). His oldest sisters were definitely sister Moms... 

I’ve recently been going to the rabbit hole of huge adopted Christian, but not necessarily fundie families on YouTube. I’m just so baffled that these people (Crazy Middles etc.) somehow still get placements/get to adopt kids. Especially those adopting from foster care, I just can’t imagine how that works, and how they’re able to give the kids (many with some sort of trauma, since foster care) the individual attention they deserve. At some point, you’re just a group home without staff, IMO.

[Giraffe]

8 minutes ago, tanba said:

I’ve recently been going to the rabbit hole of huge adopted Christian, but not necessarily fundie families on YouTube. I’m just so baffled that these people (Crazy Middles etc.) somehow still get placements/get to adopt kids. Especially those adopting from foster care, I just can’t imagine how that works, and how they’re able to give the kids (many with some sort of trauma, since foster care) the individual attention they deserve. At some point, you’re just a group home without staff, IMO.

Easy. They find agencies that will treat the adoption as nothing more than a business transaction. It has nothing to do with what's in the best interest of the child.

(Disclaimer: There are plenty of adoptions where the best interest of the child is absolutely front and center and it works out wonderfully, that's not what I'm talking about.)

[Oh_Dear!]

20 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I never get the Catholic not fundie distinction. If a Catholic has a large quiver, they're probably fundie Catholic. There are many ways to practice Catholicism including less legalistic ways. Catholic fundies are as toxic to the world as other fundies. 

Case and point, Poland is largely Roman Catholic. Recently the country, largely influenced by the Roman Catholic Church, has deemed basically all abortion illegal (rape and incest are the only valid reasons for abortion in Poland now, though the ruling party, ironically the Law & Justice Party, is working to make those illegal too). Prior to this ruling, abortion was only allowed in case of fetal defects, which accounted for 96% of all abortions done in Poland in the years prior.

All that to say, Catholicism can be very scary. Perhaps why, after being raised in the Roman Catholic Church in Poland, I am now a liberal atheist, living in sunny California. 

[Natalie22]

20 hours ago, HeartsAFundie said:

Very good point. There are Catholic families out there that could rival the Duggars with religious devotion.  Especially the Charismatic Catholics.  We knew a few of those and yeah, they definitely could take on the fundies.  

The folks I was referring to weren't big churchgoers and seemingly only subscribed to the "be fruitful and multiply" and "no birth control" tenets of the Catholic religion.  Otherwise, there was nothing at all religious about them. 

I think it depends what time period you're looking at.  Nowadays I would say you're right, but even in the 60s and 70s it was common for otherwise 'normal' Catholics to have large families (Think Celine Dion or Steven Colbert).  There was insistence by the church that it was god's will to have large families and people did it without question.  The quiet revolution in Quebec is actually really interesting and kind of shows an extreme version of how catholic cultures have changed in the last few decades.  

Edited February 13, 2021 by Natalie22

[raayx01]

Joy just posted that Austin and her are going goose hunting, and I honestly don't have a problem wit hunting, but Austin has been on a whole bunch of hunting trips in the last few months. I know he works for himself, but these families have so much time and money to take trips. It seems like Joy every other month is flying out to Tennessee or Austin going out of state to go hunting, when do they raise they're children.

[BlessingsVonFundiePants]

@raayx01 the video cuts off very abruptly when someone at the hotel asks them where their masks are. ?

[FluffySnowball]

Speaking of large families, growing up, I was friends with a girl from a family of 7. Her parents were Protestants but not at all religious if I recall correctly. There were no church visits, prayers, etc. at all in the family (except for special occasions such as baptisms, weddings, and so forth). In fact, I’ve sometimes wondered why the parents chose to have seven kids, they didn’t seem to have any reason for the rather unusually big number: no religious conviction, no interest in the kids (very sadly, that was the case), no interest in homemaking such as regular meal prep. They had money so the kids had a large enough house and the fridge was always full, but even so, the littles had to mostly fend for themselves. The house usually was a huge mess, the children didn’t recht he care that they needed and deserved. Thinking about it now, it was quite sad - but luckily, not abusive in the sense that we often discuss here. Unlike in many fundy families, the kids didn’t get beaten and weren’t indoctrinated, most attend(ed) university or learned/are learning a trade. So in some way, they had it better than the Bastes or Duggar kids. 

My friend was the 4th of the seven children, with her older sister (a young teenager at the time) being the main sister mom. When my friend’s youngest brother was born, she always had to look after him. She got the stroller, his bottle with milk and we went to play. I think we were around 7 or 8 when that happened and we couldn’t look after an infant adequately. So my parents would usually take the baby while we went to the playground or hung out in my room. The little dude said his first words with his bis sis, me, and my parents around, took his first steps in my parents kitchen... As a child back then, I didn’t see, a problem with it, it was fun and cute, but now looking back, I’d like to parent differently and be present. 
 

ETA: To be precise, it wasn’t a family of seven but of nine. What I meant was that the parents had seven children. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by FluffySnowball

[raayx01]

29 minutes ago, BlessingsVonFundiePants said:

@raayx01 the video cuts off very abruptly when someone at the hotel asks them where their masks are. ?

Ok and your point I want talking about that

[Dominionatrix]

3 hours ago, BlessingsVonFundiePants said:

@raayx01 the video cuts off very abruptly when someone at the hotel asks them where their masks are. ?

What I heard is a person asking if they have masks and Austin saying “No, we don’t.” They appeared to be coming out of an elevator in some sort of building, maybe a hotel. 

[BlessingsVonFundiePants]

2 hours ago, raayx01 said:

Ok and your point I want talking about that

?‍♀️I didn’t have a point, I was just trying to start a conversation about the same video and I tagged you because you were the first one to mention that particular post, which is didn’t disagree with btw - I’m just sitting in Australia horrified by fundies in the US and their casual disregard for life protecting practices...then I was distracted when my corgi barked because my dachshund was judging her, so I left the page.