Joy & Austin 31: Adding Evelyn Mae

[Tangy Bee]

1 hour ago, LorEl said:

Maybe you can help me understand something. So, Joy talks about being patient and loving etc etc in her new Instagram post.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMDkMAhJL-P/

How do they combine that with the „Pearl method“?

One time Jessa told Ivy not to touch Janas flowers, of course Ivy ripped some blossoms off... twice and then ran off. She wasn’t reprimanded. I would have thought they would react differently. Would the Pearls have reacted differently? 

 Where do they draw the line? Is it only for show? I never get it!

 

Well she was being filmed. Don't think any of them will risk backlash from physical discipline. Their show wouldn't have lasted this long if we saw JB & Michelle spanking their kids. We all know what those crazy ass Pearl's would have done. 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

1 hour ago, LorEl said:

Maybe you can help me understand something. So, Joy talks about being patient and loving etc etc in her new Instagram post.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMDkMAhJL-P/

How do they combine that with the „Pearl method“?

One time Jessa told Ivy not to touch Janas flowers, of course Ivy ripped some blossoms off... twice and then ran off. She wasn’t reprimanded. I would have thought they would react differently. Would the Pearls have reacted differently? 

 Where do they draw the line? Is it only for show? I never get it!

 

We know Boobchelle were a fan of the Pearls and blanket training, but the 2.0 Duggars have not endorsed it or appear to use it, IMO. 

I don’t think the younger Duggars were blanket trained either...the Pearls’ methods take time and consistency, which Michelle wasn’t capable of after a while. Her laundry room breakdown happened around the time Joe (#7) was born, and fast forward three years, they had four additional kids (Si, Joy, Jed and Jer).

After a while they just threw up their hands and handed the kids to sister moms because they had too many to deal with. 

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, LorEl said:

Maybe you can help me understand something. So, Joy talks about being patient and loving etc etc in her new Instagram post.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMDkMAhJL-P/

How do they combine that with the „Pearl method“?

One time Jessa told Ivy not to touch Janas flowers, of course Ivy ripped some blossoms off... twice and then ran off. She wasn’t reprimanded. I would have thought they would react differently. Would the Pearls have reacted differently? 

 Where do they draw the line? Is it only for show? I never get it!

 

As far as we know, any of the Duggar children raise their kids like Pearls did. Jessa said she was raising her kids "not exactly as her mom" and for example she was proud of not force-feeding them. 

I doubt they are gentle-parenting, but I also doubt all of them are hitting babies or following the most extreme advice. Anyway, from 19 kids not all of them are going to raise their kids the same way. 

[SorenaJ]

I think the youngest are blanket trained to some extent, at least. A few years back, when the four oldest girls came out with their book, and Jill was courting Derick, they did an interview, where the four youngest girls, and Jackson, if I remember correctly, was sitting quietly on a blanket, playing with toys. It looked like something that could have been learnt through blanket training. 

[FluffySnowball]

Everyone of the younger generation will parent differently from JB and Michelle, even if the differences are only slight. That’s just how things naturally develop. Children aren’t the carbon copies of their parents, and we should also keep in mind that each Duggar couple with little children has a spouse who didn’t “grow up Duggar”. So there are different influences that come together now, though I’m not overly hopeful tbh. Even the slightly less fundy Derick publicly and vocally endorses corporal punishments (aka beating children). 

What worries me is that I think in order to make the decision to parent significantly different from how they themselves were raised, the second generation Duggars need to first be aware mistakes were made in their own childhoods. And I wonder if anyone except Jill is aware enough to ponder such thoughts. 

[Mama Mia]

47 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

I think the youngest are blanket trained to some extent, at least. A few years back, when the four oldest girls came out with their book, and Jill was courting Derick, they did an interview, where the four youngest girls, and Jackson, if I remember correctly, was sitting quietly on a blanket, playing with toys. It looked like something that could have been learnt through blanket training. 

IIRC Michelle at one point said they started the blanket training with the younger twins, and it probably lasted until somewhere around Jackson. Clearly given up at some point between the early specials where they were all creepily, eerily  obedient, and the show going full-time, where the little kids were running absolutely wild. I’m sure there was lots of physical discipline, but nothing as structured and draconian as the full-on Pearl method after the show was on. It’s hard to tell just from kids playing quietly on a blanket what’s going on - because all kinds of kids will sometimes play quietly on a blanket. I’d be surprised if any of the younger generation were full on 100% opposed to any corporeal punishment ever — it’s even allowed in the public schools in their state —- but it’s more likely occasional smacks and threats when the kids are out of control or doing something dangerous, than purposefully setting babies up to be beat with objects. 

[artdecades]

4 hours ago, LorEl said:

Maybe you can help me understand something. So, Joy talks about being patient and loving etc etc in her new Instagram post.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMDkMAhJL-P/

How do they combine that with the „Pearl method“?

One time Jessa told Ivy not to touch Janas flowers, of course Ivy ripped some blossoms off... twice and then ran off. She wasn’t reprimanded. I would have thought they would react differently. Would the Pearls have reacted differently? 

 Where do they draw the line? Is it only for show? I never get it!

 

This whole post is bizarre and worrying to me. She writes this long thing about being frustrated and trying to keep her temper down and accompanies it with two pictures of Gideon: one where he looks like he was crying and the other in which he is engaging in self soothing behavior. Why did she choose these specific photos? Did she yell at him? Worse? And if she did, why is she taking photos of the aftermath?
 

Usually she is so good at only showing smiley happy images of him. Maybe she thinks this makes her relatable? Idk but it does worry me. 

[Mama Mia]

52 minutes ago, artdecades said:

This whole post is bizarre and worrying to me. She writes this long thing about being frustrated and trying to keep her temper down and accompanies it with two pictures of Gideon: one where he looks like he was crying and the other in which he is engaging in self soothing behavior. Why did she choose these specific photos? Did she yell at him? Worse? And if she did, why is she taking photos of the aftermath?
 

Usually she is so good at only showing smiley happy images of him. Maybe she thinks this makes her relatable? Idk but it does worry me. 

I don’t know,  it sounds and looks like any other “worn out mom with two tiny kids” post to me. She probably over-reactively snapped on Gideon, who was doing something obnoxious, and feels bad for losing her temper. Whatever Michelle’s faults - and there are obviously a ton of them - she doesn’t seem like a yeller, so Joy is probably comparing herself to that. 

[Idlewild]

The Forsyths were very defensive about inviting the Pearls to their family camp, so while they may not practise blanket training I doubt Austin nor Joy disagree with Michael and Debi’s ‘No Greater Joy’ views.

As for the latest posts, I think these are similar to the ones Jill and Jessa have done ‘kids are hard work, amiright??’ - basically trying to appear relatable in the run up to the next paid endorsement.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

Yes the Forsyths defended the Pearls and the parents for raising them that way.  I have zero evidence that Joy and Austin are in any way really departing from the parents' beliefs. 

[Mama Mia]

7 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Yes the Forsyths defended the Pearls and the parents for raising them that way.  I have zero evidence that Joy and Austin are in any way really departing from the parents' beliefs. 

Oh I’m sure they spank, just none of the younger generations toddlers/ little kids seem remotely “instantly obedient” so I don’t think any of them are using as rigid or extreme  of methods as the Pearls.  

[bal maiden]

I find those photos of Gideon completely heartbreaking, he looks so sad. I know if I've lost my shit with my kids, their sad little faces break my heart and I'm there apologising and repairing our relationship, not shoving a camera in their faces. 

[fundieundies]

22 hours ago, Idlewild said:

The Forsyths were very defensive about inviting the Pearls to their family camp, so while they may not practise blanket training I doubt Austin nor Joy disagree with Michael and Debi’s ‘No Greater Joy’ views.

As for the latest posts, I think these are similar to the ones Jill and Jessa have done ‘kids are hard work, amiright??’ - basically trying to appear relatable in the run up to the next paid endorsement.

I never got the impression that they blanket trained, despite the fact that they open admire and defend the Pearls. Joy has been posting about Gideon spilling coffee, milk, getting into her makeup and making huge messes for years now. I think if they were blanket training that would've been knocked out of poor Gideon after the first incident.

[dawn9476]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8jx8aUVTxk

Is this Joy's SIL on Austin's side gender reveal? It seems like Joy is the one filming. Michelle is there. They are having a girl. Naming her Agnes but I think they may be spelling it Agnus b/c that's how it's spelled in the video.

Edited March 9, 2021 by dawn9476

[raayx01]

They have all these weird A names and then go with something so old and traditional as Agnes

[AussieKrissy]

2 hours ago, dawn9476 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8jx8aUVTxk

Is this Joy's SIL on Austin's side gender reveal? It seems like Joy is the one filming. Michelle is there. They are having a girl. Naming her Agnes but I think they may be spelling it Agnus b/c that's how it's spelled in the video.

All I see is anus with that spelling....

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

All I see is anus with that spelling....

With any spelling, all I think of is this:

It was a particularly appropriate song in 2020!

(Lyrics for anyone who doesn't want to watch a video.)

Spoiler

I Got It From Agnes
Song by Tom Lehrer

I love my friends and they love me
We're just as close as we can be
And just because we really care
Whatever we get, we share!

I got it from Agnes
She got it from Jim
We all agree it must have been
Louise who gave it to him

Now, she got it from Harry
Who got it from Marie
And everybody knows that Marie
Got it from me

Giles got it from Daphne
She got it from Joan
Who picked it up in County Cork
A-kissin' the Blarney Stone

Pierre gave it to Sheila
Who must have brought it there
He got it from Francois and Jacques
A-ha!
Lucky Pierre!

Max got it from Edith
Who gets it every spring
She got it from her Daddy
Who just gives her everything

She then gave it to Daniel
Whose spaniel has it now
Our dentist even got it
And we're still wondering how

Ah, but I got it from Agnes
Or maybe it was Sue
Or Millie or Billie or Gillie or Willie
It doesn't matter who

It might have been at the club
Or at the pub, or in the loo
And if you will be my friend
Then I might
Mind you, I said, "might"
Give it to you!

Now I miss @nastyhobbitses, who loves Tom Lehrer, too!

Edited March 9, 2021 by WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?
clarify

[Melissa1977]

On 3/7/2021 at 4:52 PM, FluffySnowball said:

What worries me is that I think in order to make the decision to parent significantly different from how they themselves were raised, the second generation Duggars need to first be aware mistakes were made in their own childhoods. And I wonder if anyone except Jill is aware enough to ponder such thoughts

I think Jessa is aware of that. She never critizise her parents, but saying she raises "a bit different" is a start. She may be lying or posting fake videos, but the advice she gave to her fans is all about patience and way more respectful than the Pearls.

I know she's teaching toxic beliefs and she is raising her kids in a very narrow world. I'm not defending her, but it's nice to see children behaving normally, not little robots, neither howler monkeys. 

[Nothing if not critical]

1 hour ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

Now I miss @nastyhobbitses, who loves Tom Lehrer, too!

Not nastyhobbitses, but fellow Tom Lehrer fan here! ?

[wendy-sparkles]

Agnus with that spelling has such a strong roman catholic vibe for me, which I am sure they are not going for at all. I've always though Aggie is cute though.

[AprilQuilt]

I reckon it's just a typo on behalf of whoever did the subtitles - it's the company who made the video, not the family, right? 

That said, 'Agnus' is the spelling that would translate to 'lamb' in Latin. Although a lot of people assume that's its root, the name Agnes actually comes from the Greek 'hagne', meaning chaste or pure, an equally appropriate meaning for a Fundie girl. So I guess they could be going with either. It would be like Duggar-adjacents to not check the standard spelling and meaning of a name.

[Irishy]

Yep. Agnus Dei = lamb of god. So reminiscent of catholic mass in my mind

Edited March 9, 2021 by Irishy

[SorenaJ]

Agnus looks like a misspelling of Angus. 

[AprilQuilt]

14 minutes ago, Irishy said:

Yep. Agnus Dei = lamb of god. So reminiscent of catholic mass in my mind

sure, but when you take it out of the Latin the fundies are also quite fond of the 'lamb of God' concept, particularly of errant lambs being gathered back into the fold.

[SassyPants]

7 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

I think Jessa is aware of that. She never critizise her parents, but saying she raises "a bit different" is a start. She may be lying or posting fake videos, but the advice she gave to her fans is all about patience and way more respectful than the Pearls.

I know she's teaching toxic beliefs and she is raising her kids in a very narrow world. I'm not defending her, but it's nice to see children behaving normally, not little robots, neither howler monkeys. 

I don’t know much about how JB and M parented before they had a laundry fairy or 14 kids. I’m sure that Michelle had to change her parenting tactics many times during those years. Also, were JB and M dropping  the kids at GM Mary’s for parenting breaks, on the regular? I think we need to see these folks with many more kids before we can start comparing their parenting to what we know of JB and M’s parenting.

Patience is really a gift, IMO. Having a great deal of patience would almost be a requirement to having a large family and maintaining your sanity. Being very patient, yet being able to get things done in order to safely and healthily maintain a large family/home is a very, very special skill set. Out of the Duggar adult daughters, I can not identify anyone who has those skills. Jana, Joy, Jessa, Jinger, don’t seem particularly patient ( some, Jana, Jinger do appear to be organized). Jill, while presenting as patient, does not seem particularly organized. This is no knock on the Duggars, very few people possess those innate qualities. Give all these families 10 + kids and they’ll all likely be mailing it in. Not enough hours in any given day...