Alyssa & John 3: Modesty Make-Up

[FluffySnowball]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

I strongly disagree that comparing a cruel and barbaric law to the Taliban - not Islam, the Taliban - somehow hurts non-fundamentalist Muslims. That makes absolutely no sense, and it's insulting to Muslims. This person is for some bizarre reason equating the Taliban with Islam in general. This is like saying that calling the FLDS crazy perpetrates stereotypes about mainstream Mormons. No, of course it doesn't. The FLDS is crazy, and acknowledging it as crazy helps to show how non-crazy mainstream Mormons are in comparison. Same with the Taliban and the non-crazy Muslims. I swear some people are so eager to be the most woke person on Twitter that they end up babbling incomprehensibly and only hurting the cause they're trying to help.

I get what you’re saying, @JillyOand @singsingsing but I think that’s not what she’s getting at. At least I understood her tweet differently.

What I find problematic is the constant invocation of Islam and Muslims when fundamentalism and/or a disregard for women’s rights is concerned. Alyssa’s father in law has nothing to do with Islam, he’s a radical Christian. Yet his nickname is Taliban Dan, thus implying a connection between him and a fundamentalist Muslim group or making it sound as if he himself were Muslim. Yet both is far from the truth! He’s a Christian and we don’t need to point to other faiths in order to call him out. Same is true for for politicians who work against women’s rights. No need to mention Islam when discussing them just as there’s no need to refer to Christian fundys when discussing radical Muslims.  

ETA: There might also be the unspoken notion that “we’ll, he’s so bad we need to describe him with a term (taliban) that’s outside of the Christian realm” 

Edited May 16, 2019 by FluffySnowball

[formergothardite]

I get it. They are pretty people who have pretty babies and take pretty instagram pictures. So much fun to constantly post the cute pictures and discuss clothing than to look behind the pretty to discuss the real damage this family and people like them do. It is easier to act that they are some how less dangerous now that they no longer dress weird. 

 

[nickelodeon]

17 hours ago, JillyO said:

It's certainly an interesting perspective, but I don't necessarily think it's very consistent. He's not being called "Muslim Dan," he's being called "Taliban Dan." The Taliban ARE extremist and fundamentalist Muslims, just like Dan Webster is an extremist and fundamentalist Christian. So I actually think it's a fairly apt comparison.

Given that “all Muslims are complicit in fundamentalist Muslim violence” is a constant punching bag for the Bateses (Lawson’s Twitter is full of it) it’s also an effective way to piss them off!

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

Unicorns seem to be super trendy right now. Alyssa seems to be one who follows whatever is trendy. 

The Bateses have the personality of dorm room decor you buy at Target - very pastel and covered in loud slogans (often involving Starbucks, unicorns, and being tired) but also aggressively, self-consciously inoffensive. I find it kind of boring but whatever.

[singsingsing]

1 hour ago, FluffySnowball said:

I get what you’re saying, @JillyOand @singsingsing but I think that’s not what she’s getting at. At least I understood her tweet differently.

What I find problematic is the constant invocation of Islam and Muslims when fundamentalism and/or a disregard for women’s rights is concerned. Alyssa’s father in law has nothing to do with Islam, he’s a radical Christian. Yet his nickname is Taliban Dan, thus implying a connection between him and a fundamentalist Muslim group or making it sound as if he himself were Muslim. Yet both is far from the truth! He’s a Christian and we don’t need to point to other faiths in order to call him out. Same is true for for politicians who work against women’s rights. No need to mention Islam when discussing them just as there’s no need to refer to Christian fundys when discussing radical Muslims.  

ETA: There might also be the unspoken notion that “we’ll, he’s so bad we need to describe him with a term (taliban) that’s outside of the Christian realm” 

I totally get where you're coming from, but the Taliban isn't Islam. Nobody's invoking Islam by comparing something to the Taliban. You may as well say I'm demeaning 21st century Anglicans by comparing someone barbaric to Henry VIII. And I actually think that it's helpful to compare fundamentalist Christians to fundamentalist Muslims. Both are incredibly dangerous and barbaric, but the average American is much more aware of how dangerous and barbaric fundamentalist Islam is vs. fundamentalist Christianity. A lot of people, when they hear 'fundamentalist Christian', think 'goofy virgins who think dinosaurs walked the earth with Jesus'. When they hear 'Taliban', it triggers a more sinister (and accurate, imo) mental picture of what these people are trying to do to society.

[SassyPants]

I think the saddest thing about these folks and their right to vote and tread on others’ rights is the fact that many of them do not appear to be deep thinkers. Carlin, Alyssa, Erin, Joy...Yes, they can regurgitate what has been crammed down their throats, but to critically think or debate a subject in which they can not control the direction of the conversation, no way. Like I said a few weeks ago in terms of Alyssa and her illness, they’ll go along with the beliefs as long as it gets them what they want, and as soon as it gets really hard, expect a deviation. These are a bunch of really intellectually shallow people; sheeple, if you will.

[VelociRapture]

4 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

And you would think on fj that would be seen as a good thing.  That he’s honest with the hate but no....fingers are wagged and headpats given to the cute babies and haircuts.

Part of me doesn’t understand why people come here to fangirl over them, but i do get it because there are enough likeminded people in the fan club that push back is easily ignored.

I commented about Trace and Chaney, mostly because I like to keep an eye on which of them might be spawning more innocent kids to brainwash for the cult in the near future. I do agree that the tone over here is a lot different than threads in other areas of the site though - it often skews more towards positives like you pointed out. 

Personally, I’m just kind of tired of pointing stuff out and getting into debates about it. I’m tired and pregnant and just don’t have the energy to keep arguing about stuff. I still make corrections to facts as needed and step up if it’s really needed, but I just can’t as much as I used to anymore. 

[Ivycoveredtower]

I post most any picture they or the duggar's put on Instagram,  most of the time I don't even say something about the picture untless I can think of something just here is the picture discuss.  I stay far away from Twitter  I think I follow like 2 people on there and none of it's the duggar or bates, as for trace that one fascinates me because if he isn't then after Carlin's wedding there will be no duggar or Bates Courtship/Engagments for the first time in awhile. 

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

Personally, I’m just kind of tired of pointing stuff out and getting into debates about it.

I get it. I get burned out of this section and have to take breaks. It can be very frustrating to debate if they are not fundie just because they slapped on some pants and watch modern movies. Everyone looking at their instagram pictures should be terrified, don't let the pretty pictures distract you! Because what the Bates and people like them are doing to the world is down right scary. 

The Bates are just as dangerous now, if not more so, then back when they dressed weird. 

 

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

I post most any picture they or the duggar's put on Instagram,  most of the time I don't even say something about the picture untless I can think of something just here is the picture discuss.

Not all of their pics are worthy of discussion, though.  You aren't the only one who has done this and I've never understood it.

It seems to me that it's just giving them more non-critical attention in a different corner of the net, but maybe I'm missing something.

16 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

The Bates are just as dangerous now, if not more so, then back when they dressed weird. 

 

Far more dangerous now, IMO.  We live in a world where very pretty people are seen in a positive light and their "changes" have all just led them into a different flavors of attractive.  

Far fewer people would want to emulate them if they were still in frumpers.  

They are orders of magnitude more attractive than the Duggars and far more PR savvy.  They're a much bigger threat.

[Johannah]

I don’t ever visit their pages, so I appreciate when people post snapshots of Bates posts. Sometimes people might catch something in them that another person didn’t see. There’s usually something snark worthy or hypocritical in them

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 hours ago, Johannah said:

I don’t ever visit their pages, so I appreciate when people post snapshots of Bates posts. Sometimes people might catch something in them that another person didn’t see. There’s usually something snark worthy or hypocritical in them

The purpose of FJ isn’t to be a one stop fan shop for Bates and Duggar pics.

Its actually the antithesis of the purpose of FJ.

We don’t exist as a convenience for those of you who want to see them don’t have to look them up yourselves.

Its disingenuous to say it’s done for snark or hypocrisy.  The vast majority are about gossip, BEC, and looking for bumps in cheap dresses

At the entrance to both forums  is a bolded message that this is not a fan site but that’s too often ignored these days.  The balance has tipped and needs to be righted.

[Mrs Ms]

Does it show up on instagram or Twitter how many views you get? I thought people started posting the pics here for the same reason Buzzard recaps Counting On. People can get their Voyeurismus on without giving the Bates and Duggars extra clicks. And to counter any squee-ing with a slap of reality wherever needed...

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 minutes ago, Mrs Ms said:

Does it show up on instagram or Twitter how many views you get? I thought people started posting the pics here for the same reason Buzzard recaps Counting On. People can get their Voyeurismus on without giving the Bates and Duggars extra clicks. And to counter any squee-ing with a slap of reality wherever needed...

Buzzard recaps counting on because it need to be recapped by someone who sees through all the bullshit.

added bonus when people google for recaps if they find hers they get a well written and realistic view of the hot garbage that is that show.

I can tell you emphatically she’s no Duggar fan girl doing it for other fans to get their fix.

7 minutes ago, Mrs Ms said:

Does it show up on instagram or Twitter how many views you get? 

Idk but I assume so.  So maybe people should think about why they need to consume the Bateseses social media and be a part of that world ....because whether you follow every post and pic there or here it’s still attention for them...it’s still intense interest which keeps them relevant in their D list world.

 

[Italiangirl]

So what you think we should be, a Reddit like forum in which you can say anything pretty or kind about them? There has to be some balance between exposing their danger and just hate. 

I'm just trying to understand, if you can say anything about them that is not hate then I think you are not better then them. Personally a big part of what it brings me out of loork doom is the possibility to say many different things about everyone, not just say how dangerous, mean, hypocrite they are, maybe I'm wrong and we should implement the rules other ways we become like leghumper.

I don't know if I'm making my self clear 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, Italiangirl said:

So what you think we should be, a Reddit like forum in which you can say anything pretty or kind about them? There has to be some balance between exposing their danger and just hate. 

I'm just trying to understand, if you can say anything about them that is not hate then I think you are not better then them. Personally a big part of what it brings me out of loork doom is the possibility to say many different things about everyone, not just say how dangerous, mean, hypocrite they are, maybe I'm wrong and we should implement the rules other ways we become like leghumper.

I don't know if I'm making my self clear 

We aren’t a fan site.  If people want to fangirl over the Bates and Duggars they will get push back on it here from those of us who aren’t currentl too exhausted to keep having the same arguments.

And it’s absolute bullshit to imply that we only want hatefilled comments.  This is not a hate site.  FJ is full of reasoned, intelligent, and. compassionate observations amongst the snark.  But it’s supposed to be more than a post of Carlin wearing a hat ...or another one shilling a new dress just giving them more publicity with no discussion of why we’re here.

i honestly don’t know how to say this any more clearly.  

 

[formergothardite]

26 minutes ago, Italiangirl said:

There has to be some balance between exposing their danger and just hate. 

Sure, and straight up BEC has been called out.  Do we need to point out every single time one of them has a less than flat stomach? These people support pure hate and oppression, do we really need to have someone post every single posed picture that they put on their social media? If the person posting the picture can't even think of something to say about it, why post it? Because if threads are filled with all their pictures where they really aren't doing anything then it will either turn into BEC comments or gushing over them. 

Edited May 17, 2019 by formergothardite

[llucie]

Personally what i like about here is that althought this is not a fanfest and we all agree that they have disgusting beliefs, we agree that snarking on things like children appearances or sexualities is crossing the line and are against the rules. I enjoy reading about fundies in other sources but i also am shocked that some people seem ok with comments that in my opinion go too far.

[Palimpsest]

11 minutes ago, Italiangirl said:

So what you think we should be, a Reddit like forum in which you can say anything pretty or kind about them? There has to be some balance between exposing their danger and just hate. 

I'm just trying to understand, if you can say anything about them that is not hate then I think you are not better then them. Personally a big part of what it brings me out of loork doom is the possibility to say many different things about everyone, not just say how dangerous, mean, hypocrite they are, maybe I'm wrong and we should implement the rules other ways we become like leghumper.

I don't know if I'm making my self clear 

You are not.  But I do know that English is not your first language so perhaps I am misjudging your intent.

We are not a fan site.  We are all about quality snark to expose dangerous extreme Fundamentalist beliefs.  Note:  quality snark and legitimate criticism, not endless BEC comments and unreasoning hate.

Sometimes threads go off-track with too much unpleasant BEC, or too much gushing over our snark subjects for irrelevant things (like their pretty clothes), and the balance needs to be restored.  Some members or Mods try to intervene to ask people to get back to our original purpose. 

This appears to be one of those times.  Thanks, Buffy.

 

 

[formergothardite]

If people want to discuss what Alyssa stands for, her FIL, who she supports and lets her children be used to help get him elected, has voted in the past to make it harder for women to divorce their husbands and supported the idea that women should be charged more for healthcare. 

This is what the reality of the Bates are. It isn't nice pictures, it is oppression, especially of women. 

[Italiangirl]

11 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

You are not.  But I do know that English is not your first language so perhaps I am misjudging your intent.

We are not a fan site.  We are all about quality snark to expose dangerous extreme Fundamentalist beliefs.  Note:  quality snark and legitimate criticism, not endless BEC comments and unreasoning hate.

Sometimes threads go off-track with too much unpleasant BEC, or too much gushing over our snark subjects for irrelevant things (like their pretty clothes), and the balance needs to be restored.  Some members or Mods try to intervene to ask people to get back to our original purpose. 

This appears to be one of those times.  Thanks, Buffy.

 

 

Ok thanks @Palimpsest is more clear now. I have to say I have learn so much here not just about Bates and Duggar, but Maxwell, Bowers, Bontrager, our lady of the green eyeliner Jill R...so I want to thank you all for your efforts 

[Palimpsest]

@Italiangirl, you are welcome.  By the way, your skills in written English are usually excellent, and far better than my attempts at French.  I was just confused by that specific post. 

 

[just_ordinary]

I don’t think anyone reading more than two pages on a thread here could confuse this forum for a fan site. Maybe left wondering what duvet covers have to do with them. 

In all honesty- those families but especially the Bates are VERY good at hiding their beliefs. If we don’t start at their pretty show/photos on SM we wouldn’t get into discussions about it. Alyssa’s Sunday family pic exposed what kind of church she visits, we talk about how they and also a lot other Fundies leave the frumpers behind and embrace „modern modest“ and 99% agree that they are still fundie af. Many read the subtext in their posts about their gender roles or their hypocrisy and it is discussed. I see the Bates and Duggar threads as excellent starter points to learn about Christian fundamentalism in the USA. I also learned a lot about America’s right wing, your school and healthcare system, the problems your society faces right now and the different customs you have regarding wedding attire and food. Additionally I learned a lot about my European neighbours.

If we only stick to the „dangerous fundie“ discussion we could freeze the thread because it’s not as if there is something new on that front. And they are careful not to give away too much. But we talk about their newest pretty picture/baby and it gives opportunity to talk about the dangers again and again. The superficial leads to the important.

The constant claim that this site is swamped by leg humpers seems exaggerated from my point of view. What I find much more disturbing is how people rush out and stalk almost every boy and girl that could be a new courtship. That seems quite obsessive and invasive. On the other hand I don’t have a problem with pregnancy speculation so you do you.

I actually think if everyone on FJ would stop giving them views and clicks they would probably loose at least a third of their audience.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

19 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

The constant claim that this site is swamped by leg humpers seems exaggerated from my point of view. What I find much more disturbing is how people rush out and stalk almost every boy and girl that could be a new courtship. That seems quite obsessive and invasive. On the other hand I don’t have a problem with pregnancy speculation so you do you.

It is invasive and completely creepy.  And it’s leghumping.  

The desperate following of which fundy is liking whose social media posts and who is following whom are the actions of fans who can’t get enough of their favorite d listers.

as is intensive discussion over which random guy was seated in the general vicinity of Jana Duggar and fanwanking endless speculation on that.

as is the constant pity for Michaela to not be able to bring more babies into a cult.  Sympathy for her pain as a human being is one thing, but the lack of sympathy for what it means to be a kid born into their cult is leghumping. Her happiness over any potential innocent child.

or the endless squeeing over how impossibly cute the kids are.  Kids are cute by default - many of their children are cute.  Kids that are being used to present a carefully crafted image even more so, by design.  But does every pic Anna posts have to be followed my posts on FJ squeeing over her normal looking kids, as if people haven’t seen children before.

I agree that you can’t read more than a few pages and conclude FJ is “only” a fan site but I disagree that it’s exaggerated. 

Go in a Maxwell thread and see the difference.  Cute kids but the tone of the conversation is very different and no one fangirls the Maxwell’s.  

[bal maiden]

5 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

fanwanking

Thank you for my new favourite word.

 

Can we please replace 'leghumping' with 'fanwanking'? The latter is a significant improvement 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, bal maiden said:

Thank you for my new favourite word.

 

Can we please replace 'leghumping' with 'fanwanking'? The latter is a significant improvement 

Ha!  They have two separate meanings, though.

leghumping is being a fangirl/boy.

 Fanwanking is wild speculation and creating possible scenarios for your idols based on  nothing...like fanfic except speculating that it’ could be true.