Alyssa & John 3: Modesty Make-Up

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, just_ordinary said:

Alyssa’s Sunday family pic exposed what kind of church she visits,

Yes, but the conversation about the horrific beliefs of the church won't happen each week as her church pictures are posted. And I know from experience that if you do try to bring up how dangerous their beliefs are each time a generic picture is posted people get really angry. So there isn't going to be weekly discussions on Alyssa's beliefs and the danger her church causes. 

So posting a picture and discussing her church is one thing. Posting weekly pictures that end up just gushing about her clothing and kids is another thing. I just don't see why, if we aren't a fan club we would want absolutely every picture of them here. Some pictures are going to be jumping off points to discuss the truth behind the curtain, but fifteen million pictures of Alyssa and her kids in almost the exact same pose isn't going to spark a lot of conversation besides how cute her kids are and how nice her clothing is. 

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by formergothardite

[Hisey]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

no one fangirls the Maxwell’s.

The Maxwell's are not extremely good looking, and they don't dress in fashionable clothes.

I really think that's the crux of it. The leghumpers admire the Bates. They secretly want to be like them. They have difficulty hearing any criticism of them. 

Edited May 17, 2019 by Hisey

[JordynDarby5]

25 minutes ago, Hisey said:

The Maxwell's are not extremely good looking, and they don't dress in fashionable clothes.

I really think that's the crux of it. The leghumpers admire the Bates. They secretly want to be like them. They have difficulty hearing any criticism of them. 

I think your right. The Bates are good looking. The daughters and sons are both really good looking. The kids are cute and adorable.  They look nice. Have big cute over the top courtposal and engagements. They go to college and get degrees. They seem really nice, friendly, outgoing and personality. They have a very, very shiny outside and are very good at keeping that imagine. We know that their not. In the past Kelly and Gil didn't bother to hid the ugliness which is how we know about the Patriot room, promoted Pearls, and other things before they wiped it all as they became popular. Michael potty trained most of her siblings, Alyssa cooked for the entire family, and they did have a buddy system. See Callie sobbing at Michael's wedding or the articles where Kelly says she and Gil took one of the girls with them on their trip because they need someone who could buckle a car seat. We know they are grifters. Gil left/was fired/or laid off from a good paying job at Nabisco, and in his own sermons and his own words he's talked about how he managed to get stuff from people. Or from Lawson to pay for groceries. Sure they are a good looking family, and so many of the pictures are great. Alyssa has an adorable family but her beliefs have not changed. Erin's kids are adorable but their beliefs haven't changed. Gil and Kelly still don't raise their kids. They still have the same beliefs. Gil is still on the board of Gothard. He covered Gothard's ass until he became a liability and then helped give him the boot. Lawson has been very vocal about his horrible beliefs which the entire family still shares. But still has fans! People fawning over the pictures of their cute kids, their clothes, and how adorable they are. I really doubt that would be happening if they weren't cute and good looking. 

I really like the stuff from Gil's sermons, the Way Back Machine and when they do slip. Each one shows exactly who they are. Not the shiny package. And yes sometimes it does change my opinion. I disliked Carlin. She's aloud, obnoxious, and has to be the center of attention. But the one where Gil proudly talks about how tore that girl down. That changed my opinion of Carlin. I felt sorry for her. To do that to your own daughter? I'm still amaze at how many people listen to his words and think oh what a great father, preacher instead of realizing what a horrible bastard he is. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 minutes ago, JordynDarby5 said:

I think your right. The Bates are good looking. The daughters and sons are both really good looking. The kids are cute and adorable.  They look nice. Have big cute over the top courtposal and engagements. They go to college and get degrees. They seem really nice, friendly, outgoing and personality. They have a very, very shiny outside and are very good at keeping that imagine. We know that their not. In the past Kelly and Gil didn't bother to hid the ugliness which is how we know about the Patriot room, promoted Pearls, and other things before they wiped it all as they became popular. Michael potty trained most of her siblings, Alyssa cooked for the entire family, and they did have a buddy system. See Callie sobbing at Michael's wedding or the articles where Kelly says she and Gil took one of the girls with them on their trip because they need someone who could buckle a car seat. We know they are grifters. Gil left/was fired/or laid off from a good paying job at Nabisco, and in his own sermons and his own words he's talked about how he managed to get stuff from people. Or from Lawson to pay for groceries. Sure they are a good looking family, and so many of the pictures are great. Alyssa has an adorable family but her beliefs have not changed. Erin's kids are adorable but their beliefs haven't changed. Gil and Kelly still don't raise their kids. They still have the same beliefs. Gil is still on the board of Gothard. He covered Gothard's ass until he became a liability and then helped give him the boot. Lawson has been very vocal about his horrible beliefs which the entire family still shares. But still has fans! People fawning over the pictures of their cute kids, their clothes, and how adorable they are. I really doubt that would be happening if they weren't cute and good looking. 

I really like the stuff from Gil's sermons, the Way Back Machine and when they do slip. Each one shows exactly who they are. Not the shiny package. And yes sometimes it does change my opinion. I disliked Carlin. She's aloud, obnoxious, and has to be the center of attention. But the one where Gil proudly talks about how tore that girl down. That changed my opinion of Carlin. I felt sorry for her. To do that to your own daughter? I'm still amaze at how many people listen to his words and think oh what a great father, preacher instead of realizing what a horrible bastard he is. 

I love you for every word of this.

[VelociRapture]

I did my part by creating the Family Summary threads. I was hoping it’d be a great resource for people looking to learn more about the families and their actual beliefs. Unfortunately I don’t think that’s been the case, which is somewhat disheartening. I haven’t updated either in a while partly for that reason and partly because I have a lot of other stuff to deal with right now. Same with trying to discuss their actual beliefs on these threads when others have made it clear they aren’t interested in that. I just honestly don’t have the heart or energy to argue about it endlessly. 

Having the threads freeze due to a lack of new discussion isn’t the worst thing in the world by the way. People can always check out other parts of the site instead. We don’t need constant discussion in every single thread for the site to remain functional or interesting. 

[backyard sylph]

I think...it's probably not productive to have repostings of seemingly every picture Alyssa uploads to IG.  Also I find it boring, but of course, that's wholly subjective. Either way, I feel there is nothing for us in a near daily discussion of matching outfits. 

But I also think...it is okay to show things they're doing which are either a demonstration of their positive changes or of their hypocrisy or of a mixed message. 

If they're improving, we should take note. When they're not, we should also take note. Even people with a set of garbage beliefs are going to have nuances from time to time, and, dare I say it, retain the potential for positive change, and that's why we like certain ones of them or have a sort of favorite; we're nuanced, too. 

The endless fashion parade is probably misleading to someone wandering by.

Edited May 18, 2019 by backyard sylph
uhh, I'm no good at finishing a thought

[Palimpsest]

32 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Having the threads freeze due to a lack of new discussion isn’t the worst thing in the world by the way. People can always check out other parts of the site instead. We don’t need constant discussion in every single thread for the site to remain functional or interesting. 

This.  A thousand times this.

There is a whole big site out there.  As @Italiangirl and many others appreciate.  Go out and explore the wide and wonderful world of Fundies.  Or, if you want thread drift, we have threads on almost every subject under the sun.  And if we have missed something, feel free to start your own thread on the lesser known habits of the endangered dappled bandercootie!  There are new friends to make out there.

On 5/16/2019 at 6:15 PM, Ivycoveredtower said:

I post most any picture they or the duggar's put on Instagram,  most of the time I don't even say something about the picture untless I can think of something just here is the picture discuss. 

I think that is probably one of the saddest posts I have seen on FJ.  No snark at all, but lot of compassion if I am right in my interpretation.

Seriously, if you really can't think of anything to say about the picture then it is probably not worth bringing here. 

Consider this:  other people can find those pictures for themselves.  I don't have Twitter or Instagram accounts but I can access them if I want to look at photos.  I can google and don't even need a link.  Although links are helpful.

To me this post says that you are just bringing the pictures here, like a cat bringing a dead mouse to the site, in hopes of praise and upvotes.  I hope I am wrong.

That has much pathos.  And @Ivycoveredtower, I think I have seen some good posts from you that don't include dead mice.  Please don't waste your time posting trivia under the delusion that it is a public service.  It isn't.  

 

 

 

[bal maiden]

Personally, I think the mega threads are the reason we get so much leghumping. Imagine if instead of just 'Alyssa and John 4/5/6', 'Jessa's kids are so cute 42' where we just track their activity thus letting them drive the topics we talk about depending on what they post, we had more topical threads such as 'The shift to pants-wearing: does this indicate a real shift?'*, 'Transphobic things the Duggars have done over the years', 'Gothardite weddings - which bits are they editing out of the TV shows?'. 

This would make our purpose much less open to misinterpretation by a casual visitor, and much more interesting, IMO. 

 

 

*not really this topic, I might die of boredom if we have that discussion again

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 hours ago, bal maiden said:

Personally, I think the mega threads are the reason we get so much leghumping. Imagine if instead of just 'Alyssa and John 4/5/6', 'Jessa's kids are so cute 42' where we just track their activity thus letting them drive the topics we talk about depending on what they post, we had more topical threads such as 'The shift to pants-wearing: does this indicate a real shift?'*, 'Transphobic things the Duggars have done over the years', 'Gothardite weddings - which bits are they editing out of the TV shows?'. 

This would make our purpose much less open to misinterpretation by a casual visitor, and much more interesting, IMO. 

 

 

*not really this topic, I might die of boredom if we have that discussion again

I get what you're saying but it isn't workable from a moderation standpoint.

I remember life before the megathreads and the amount of merging and moving posts due to duplicates in multiple threads was insane...it was constant in the Duggarland (Bates weren't as much of a thing then, but it would be twice as bad now.)

People just need to filter themselves by making sure what that are posting is relevant and not humping.  

[nelliebelle1197]

@HerNameIsBuffy I hate to say this but I think it may be time to refine the rules. I remember a certain Duggar poster who got in trouble for just posting tons of  Duggar photos. The rule about actually contributing to the conversation with your posts popped up around then. That really should be refined to including random photos and sm posts with no discussion, context or rationale other than displaying one's love for the Bates, etc. NO ONE in other family groups does that. SM has become so much more important than blogs these days so we need to have logic to what is a legit post around SM.

FJ is not a Duggar or Bates fan site. We need to start acting like it.

Edited May 18, 2019 by nelliebelle1197

[HerNameIsBuffy]

17 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

@HerNameIsBuffy I hate to say this but I think it may be time to refine the rules. I remember a certain Duggar poster who got in trouble for just posting tons of  Duggar photos. The rule about actually contributing to the conversation with your posts popped up around then. That really should be refined to including random photos and sm posts with no discussion, context or rationale other than displaying one's love for the Bates, etc. NO ONE in other family groups does that. SM has become so much more important than blogs these days so we need to have logic to what is a legit post around SM.

FJ is not a Duggar or Bates fan site. We need to start acting like it.

Here's a sneak peak behind the scenes....we're already on it.

We had that discussion and will be adding pics without context to the section about links without same.  I just didn't have the time to make the change and do the announcement yesterday.  

I just got up...lemme get some coffee...

Stay tuned!

[HerNameIsBuffy]

If you post a link or a photo, include some commentary of your own. Tell us why we should follow the link. Tell us why the photo is worth the bandwidth. FJ is not Pinterest. We do not exist simply to be a Duggar/Bates scrapbook. We exist to discuss the damage caused by fundamentalists.

It was already in our rules....thanks past @Curious.

I'll post the reminders, but no changes needed!

Edited May 18, 2019 by HerNameIsBuffy

[formergothardite]

A good rule of thumb is that when you look at a picture if you can't think of anything besides "cute kids", "cute outfit", cute background", don't post it. 

[Melissa1977]

37 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

A good rule of thumb is that when you look at a picture if you can't think of anything besides "cute kids", "cute outfit", cute background", don't post it. 

I'm ok with that. But the rule should apply to BEC comments also. I've read posters making really nasty comments about Alyssa's high heels (or make up or short dresses) which sounded incredibly judgy and *taliban*, because these comments were not only about her looks but also implied she wasn't a proper mother because her outfits. I can't accept that, in a forum that tries to fight fundamentalism, women are put down because their clothes.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

34 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

I can't accept that, in a forum that tries to fight fundamentalism, women are put down because their clothes.

It's a slippery slope when it comes to legislating content.  Aside from the very specific categories we don't censor content no matter how annoying or abhorrent.  When the community polices BEC we do that quite well ...but as has been mentioned the balance has been tipped lately and we're trying to right that now.

I agree that those comments suck and say more about the posters than the fundies, and people need to call that shit out.

When stuff gets called out it does decline.  When it's ignored, like weeds, it takes over and chokes out reasonable discussion.

I do think it's covered in the rule though in "tell us why it's worth the bandwidth."

BEC is not worth the bandwidth.  That contributes nothing.

Edited May 18, 2019 by HerNameIsBuffy

[formergothardite]

50 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

. I've read posters making really nasty comments about Alyssa's high heels (or make up or short dresses) which sounded incredibly judgy and *taliban*, because these comments were not only about her looks but also implied she wasn't a proper mother because her outfits. I can't accept that, in a forum that tries to fight fundamentalism, women are put down because their clothes.

Good point. That stuff needs to be called out and if you look at a picture and you can only think of nasty things to say about them, then best not to post it. IMO it is easier to have comments like that when there are so many pictures posted where the only thing to comment about is what they are wearing. 

[nelliebelle1197]

2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

If you post a link or a photo, include some commentary of your own. Tell us why we should follow the link. Tell us why the photo is worth the bandwidth. FJ is not Pinterest. We do not exist simply to be a Duggar/Bates scrapbook. We exist to discuss the damage caused by fundamentalists.

It was already in our rules....thanks past @Curious.

I'll post the reminders, but no changes needed!

I thought so. I actually remember discussing this with Curious. I will just start reporting pics that are meant to distract from real conversation as well.

[Hisey]

1 hour ago, Melissa1977 said:

I'm ok with that. But the rule should apply to BEC comments also. I've read posters making really nasty comments about Alyssa's high heels (or make up or short dresses) which sounded incredibly judgy and *taliban*, because these comments were not only about her looks but also implied she wasn't a proper mother because her outfits. I can't accept that, in a forum that tries to fight fundamentalism, women are put down because their clothes.

I sgree. The rules should be changed.

No one should be allowed to criticize Alyssa’s shoes. Or say they’re impractical. Because that automatically means you are saying she’s a bad mom.

Alyssa’s shoes should only receive praise. Same with all the Bates women. If you have other opinions, please stop having them immediately.

This rule should make us much less like the Taliban. 

 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Hisey

[Ali]

Ridiculous BEC comments like the one below are not well received. This site exists to discuss the dangers of fundamentalism.

 

 

[backyard sylph]

Most of us are pretty good with the vast middle ground between slavering praise and utter damnation, at least in terms of shoe choice. Extremes are generally not tasteful things.

[Satan'sFortress]

On 5/17/2019 at 11:00 AM, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Go in a Maxwell thread and see the difference.  Cute kids but the tone of the conversation is very different and no one fangirls the Maxwell’s.  

Good suggestion. I have recently been expanding my explorations into the other families.  I am still interested in the Duggars & Bates because they are not only fundie, but also are in the public eye and have the potential to be influential. However, I do get tired of the seemingly endless guesses about baby names & birth dates, as well as boutique pics (and yes, I am guilty of having participated in that, along with oohing cute babies). I'm trying to learn more in the other forums now.

This has been a very interesting discussion.  Lots to think about.

 

 

[Pecansforeveryone]

Also there is something in pointing out the Bates seemingly changing dress standards in terms of hypocrisy on their part. They happily marketed themselves for years as oh so superior based on their particular and peculiar dress code. It seems to change little by little with no explanation and no apology and that is galling. Case in point for me: I call out Lawson and the other Bate's boys shirtless frolics under waterfalls quite a bit because I find the perceived hypocrisy infuriating. I try to avoid the whole, "Oh my gosh, I totally hate her shoes like totally." 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

36 minutes ago, Satan'sFortress said:

I'm trying to learn more in the other forums now.

Come join us in Arndt-ville.  

We'll have you anxiously awaiting Vine Valley and baffled by decades of penguins and bunk beds in no time.  

And Maxhell....Idk how you've been living your life without the wisdom of Stevehova but he writes things he doesn't want women to read and we read them anyway....heathen rebels that we are.  Besides where else are you going to learn to make meatless burritos in bulk, serve Thanksgiving with 1.5 tablespoons of mashed potato per person, or manage your ceiling fan cleaning schedule.

You need us...we're here to help.  Take my hand...lets go learn about white short shorts and lack of contrasting buttons.

 

V

[formergothardite]

3 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

We'll have you anxiously awaiting Vine Valley

Vine Valley better be released before I die! I have waited a very long time to see why exactly they lovingly bathe the pumpkins in their bathtub. 

And everyone should read about John Shrader. This story has a the plane with no wings, a magical well, and a mystery involving disappearing chickens. 

[nelliebelle1197]

4 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Come join us in Arndt-ville.  

We'll have you anxiously awaiting Vine Valley and baffled by decades of penguins and bunk beds in no time.  

And Maxhell....Idk how you've been living your life without the wisdom of Stevehova but he writes things he doesn't want women to read and we read them anyway....heathen rebels that we are.  Besides where else are you going to learn to make meatless burritos in bulk, serve Thanksgiving with 1.5 tablespoons of mashed potato per person, or manage your ceiling fan cleaning schedule.

You need us...we're here to help.  Take my hand...lets go learn about white short shorts and lack of contrasting buttons.

 

V

B, are you trying to scare poor satan to death?