Alyssa & John 3: Modesty Make-Up

[SassyPants]

Many, many people do not have anyone to leave children  with overnight, or for extended periods of time. When my kids were little we lived about 2.5 hours from my folks and extended family, but they all worked. My in-laws were closer at about 1 hour away, but  they were already in their late 70s, had many kids and grandkids, and just weren’t interested.

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

Many, many people do not have anyone to leave children  with overnight, or for extended periods of time. When my kids were little we lived about 2.5 hours from my folks and extended family, but they all worked. My in-laws were closer at about 1 hour away, but  they were already in their late 70s, had many kids and grandkids, and just weren’t interested.

Yes. Having reliable childcare is a luxury many parents don’t have access to for many reasons - distance, finances, health concerns, safety concerns, etc. For us, personally, we have access to reliable family caretakers and we still opted to wait until our daughter was nearly a year old to have any of them babysit (even for errands) because I would get so anxious at the thought of leaving her that I would have physical symptoms of an anxiety attack. She’s never been away from me overnight for similar reasons - at this point the first time she’ll be away from me overnight will likely be when I give birth this fall. We never intended to be “those parents,” but having a preemie in NICU changed me and had a big impact on how I wind up parenting. It was difficult to leave her when the simple thought of leaving her constantly reminded me of being separated from her during her NICU stay and how horrible that was for me. 

[freethemall]

On 5/20/2019 at 7:36 AM, formergothardite said:

Have you checked out Gwen Shambling? She started a church based entirely on weird clothing and spending your days waiting for hunger. She only eats junk food so she claims the Bible says to only eat junk food. She actually claimed that in the OT God provided the original Frito recipe that they then baked and burned on an offering to God. She is also solid proof that you can toss all the modesty rules and still be fundie as hell and that a woman can lead a church and still preach patriarchy. 

Really short white shorts! She has to have a million of the exact same pair of shorts. 

Oh my goodness, you just sent me down my next rabbit hole.

[lizzybee]

Yep, my babies have never been away from me overnight minus when I gave birth to little brother in the hospital. I missed my toddler so much I did two nights after my csection (night of procedure plus one more night) instead of three. I don’t say this like I think I’m superior or anything, I don’t, I just love being with my babies. I really do.

I had a lot of NICU emotions to work through with my first. My second came out and didn’t need to go and I had a lot of weird aggression with anyone in the hospital touching him but me. I got really upset when a nurse came in when I was sleeping and started changing him. I just had a lot of feelings from not even being allowed to touch my first baby for over a week to having this child I could hold right off. I was practically snarling when they tried to touch him and never let him out of my sight. I did eventually calm down about that. He’s my clingier child though, for whatever reason, and stays attached almost all the time, 

Present day, I stay home with them and all family is 3hours plus away. I rarely do anything without them. Like someone said above, they’re my little barnacles. Even putting them in the church nursery feels weird to me. I’m so used to having them with me, it’s a relief to go downstairs and get them when service is over. If that makes me a weird person, then I’m just a weird person. I just really enjoy being a mom. 

[Hisey]

7 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I’m very glad that works well for you and your family. I’d like to ask that you please don’t judge other parents who do things differently than you do though. You have no idea what they might be dealing with in private or why they might do things the way they do. 

We would have loved a few kid free weekends, but didn't have family who were willing or interested to take the kids. It might have seemed like we were choosing to ignore great babysitters, but really, my inlaws had no interest in doing overnights.

They were willing to watch the baby for a few hours in the afternoon while we went shopping or something. However, this proved unwise. My mil did things like giving our toddler some hard food that she knew the kid could not chew yet. That I'd already warned her about. Then she'd tell me about it in a "fuck you" manner.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Hisey

[feministxtian]

When the X and I were married, I had no one to leave the kids with so I drove back home for a week every summer just to have that "kid-free" time. 

When I moved back home, my parents lived in the neighborhood across the street from mine and the kids were old enough to run back and forth as they pleased. 

I can see not wanting to leave the kids when they're in that infant-toddler-preschooler phase but once they were old enough to be fairly independent it was time for mom to let go. Even with letting the kids be independent, that empty nest thing was TOUGH! Now the nest isn't so empty as #2 son and gf live with us. But, they're independent and do their own thing and we do our own thing. I'm glad they're here as we go through this cancer battle (and fucked up ligament thing). 

[VelociRapture]

7 hours ago, lizzybee said:

Yep, my babies have never been away from me overnight minus when I gave birth to little brother in the hospital. I missed my toddler so much I did two nights after my csection (night of procedure plus one more night) instead of three. I don’t say this like I think I’m superior or anything, I don’t, I just love being with my babies. I really do.

I had a lot of NICU emotions to work through with my first. My second came out and didn’t need to go and I had a lot of weird aggression with anyone in the hospital touching him but me. I got really upset when a nurse came in when I was sleeping and started changing him. I just had a lot of feelings from not even being allowed to touch my first baby for over a week to having this child I could hold right off. I was practically snarling when they tried to touch him and never let him out of my sight. I did eventually calm down about that. He’s my clingier child though, for whatever reason, and stays attached almost all the time, 

Present day, I stay home with them and all family is 3hours plus away. I rarely do anything without them. Like someone said above, they’re my little barnacles. Even putting them in the church nursery feels weird to me. I’m so used to having them with me, it’s a relief to go downstairs and get them when service is over. If that makes me a weird person, then I’m just a weird person. I just really enjoy being a mom. 

Yes! That whole paragraph just speaks to me. This will be my first time giving birth since my daughter was born, so I have no clue how I’ll react. I am scared that I’ll be overly possessive of the baby though. It sounds really stupid, but it still upsets me at times that I missed my daughter’s first diaper change, first feeding, first burping, and some other stuff all because I couldn’t get up to NICU to see her again until 14 hours after the birth. I’m hoping I handle it ok and I’m able to let the Nurses do their jobs if baby doesn’t need NICU this time, but I also remember how possessive I was with my daughter after she was discharged - I had trouble letting other people even hold her and that was something I had to struggle with internally for a while, though I was usually good about not showing it. 

[lizzybee]

@VelociRapture looking back, I think I was afraid they'd look at him too much and change their minds or something and then he'd be taken from me too. Very irrational but real fear. I really hope it goes smoother for you. All the hormones and emotions and instincts that kick in with motherhood can be really difficult to process. Don't be tough on yourself for worrying now or for what you're going to be feeling then. It's all natural and it's not like you can help it. We're absolutely wired to be obsessive and emotional and super protective of these little ones, we have to be that way because they need us to be so they can survive. 

[CarrotCake]

The make up artist Alyssa used for Carlin’s wedding is definitely not fundie proof with the outfit and tattoos.

I wonder if the men would be allowed to talk to her.

 

 

[Melissa1977]

It's great to have romantic getaways, but it's utterly shocking that they go to a sibling's wedding without their children. They took the girls to all the previous family gatherings. Is Carlin ok with 3 flower girls missing?

[Hisey]

3 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

It's great to have romantic getaways, but it's utterly shocking that they go to a sibling's wedding without their children. They took the girls to all the previous family gatherings. Is Carlin ok with 3 flower girls missing?

There could be a lot of reasons the girls aren't there. Maybe one is sick. Maybe they've found the baby doesn't do well on flights. Maybe Alyssa wants a bit of a break after her recent surgery. Maybe they're both feeling tired out and want some time away. Maybe it is a very formal wedding/reception that is particularly unsuited to small children. Maybe they didn't want to pay for the plane tickets for Lexi and Allie, since Lexi at least is too young to even remember this wedding (same with Zoey, though her ticket is probably free). Maybe the kids were so bored and restless at previous weddings that Alyssa and John decided not to put them through any more till they are older.

Carlin has a hundred zillion relatives there. I doubt she is even thinking about Allie, Lexi and Zoey right now. Maybe she's glad she can have her sister's full attention. 

 

[TatiFish9]

I agree it is weird to not have neices at their aunt's wedding. If they were sick I'd doubt they'd celebrate their kid free weekend. Actually, due to their young age I could even see one of them staying home. Carlin may have had little kid free event except those in party. Both weird and intriguing.

[formergothardite]

I don't really find it that odd. they didn't bring the kids. I don't think Alyssa is a shit mother for leaving her kids. Maybe she just needed a break and flying with three kids seemed like a hellish nightmare. Sitting through a wedding isn't often fun for small kids, so they might just be happier at home. 

[TatiFish9]

The logic makes sense. It is still weird for this family. I do not believe people who want to and can leave their children home during major events are shit parents.

I do think Carlin's wedding guidelines helped to influence this decision otherwise the girls would be there like they have been for other major events. Weren't they at Whittney and Zach's vow renewal?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

16 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Maybe she just needed a break and flying with three kids seemed like a hellish nightmare.

And if she thought that she would not be wrong.

[formergothardite]

8 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

Weren't they at Whittney and Zach's vow renewal?

Maybe that made her realize that flying with small children and having them sit through a wedding can make both the parents and children miserable. 

 

[TatiFish9]

23 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Maybe that made her realize that flying with small children and having them sit through a wedding can make both the parents and children miserable. 

 

Perhaps. For her to make that decision about her sister's wedding *if* other children (non wedding party) are allowed it is truly different especially for a fundie family. But that's Alyssa, right? Constantly challenging fundie norms.☺

[HerNameIsBuffy]

11 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

But that's Alyssa, right? Constantly challenging fundie norms.☺

Are you trolling?

[AliceInFundyland]

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Are you trolling?

I think she's being sarcastic. In the past she has differed in opinion about the significance of the Bates divergence from their upbringing, even after extensive discussions.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, AliceInFundyland said:

I think she's being sarcastic. In the past she has differed in opinion about the significance of the Bates divergence from their upbringing, even after extensive discussions.

I know - I've been following the conversation.  And I didn't think she was before, just a difference of opinion on an important topic.

Sometimes humor gets missed in text, if that's the case I was wrong.

[PurpleCats]

I don’t understand the “but her nieces!!” argument.  With 17 siblings (not including inlaws), a (future) average of 6 kids per sibling, and a 50/50 split on boys/girls, she’ll end up with 50+ (51, per the math) nieces.  She’ll struggle to keep their names straight, let  alone care if some were at her wedding as a baby/toddler.

[TatiFish9]

29 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Are you trolling?

Are you serious? 

 

8 minutes ago, PurpleCats said:

I don’t understand the “but her nieces!!” argument.  With 17 siblings (not including inlaws), a (future) average of 6 kids per sibling, and a 50/50 split on boys/girls, she’ll end up with 50+ (51, per the math) nieces.  She’ll struggle to keep their names straight, let  alone care if some were at her wedding as a baby/toddler.

At this moment, the three kids especially Allie have a relationship with Carlin based on pics. Who really knows what goes on.

They have shown up at every other function where their parents have been and other children. I do not understand why this is far fetched.

I see nothing wrong with Alyssa and John keeping them home. It's just odd to leave them home from a major family function especially because they are fundie. Especially because they are not distant or adjacent family. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, TatiFish9 said:

I see nothing wrong with Alyssa and John keeping them home.

You seem really fixated on this for someone who sees nothing wrong with it.

I'm sure she loves her nieces, but do you truly think her wedding day would be about them?  Honestly, what difference does it make?  

And yeah, I was serious.  I could be wrong but you seem pretty focused on arguing what you see as significant changes and with that comment wasn't sure if you were being sincere or just trotting out a pro-Alyssa agenda for sport.  It was a question - if I'm wrong okay, but that's how it came off to me.

[nelliebelle1197]

I still think Taliban Dan does not want his granddaughters around heathen dancing.

[TatiFish9]

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

You seem really fixated on this for someone who sees nothing wrong with it.

I'm sure she loves her nieces, but do you truly think her wedding day would be about them?  Honestly, what difference does it makes. 

And yeah, I was serious.  I could be wrong but you seem pretty focused on arguing what you see as significant changes and with that comment wasn't sure if you were being sincere or just trotting out a pro-Alyssa agenda for sport.  It was a question - if I'm wrong okay, but that's how it came off to me.

Sigh. I can't. I really can not.

I will say this. I accidentally posted in the Alyssa thread when the convo I was in about this started in the Carlin thread. We were speculating why certain children were absent. Posting it here does seem like over kill.

I currently admin another board. I understand all the ways and reasons dissenting voices are mitigated. You may think I am a troll, but I am not. I have lived too much of this lifestyle to know not to stir up trouble for the sake of trouble. I have a busy life outside this board as many others here. I find fun in other ways.