Joy and Austin 26: Please Wear the Appropriate Footgear Around Horses

[StraightOuttaArkansas]

2 hours ago, medimus said:

Definite definite Ravenclaw here. 

Myers-Brigg is very american, I've never seen it mentioned outside of an american context, which is intriguing, because the way we think about personality/what is normal is very culturally bound as well. I think I remember something about there being five major personality axes, of which introversion-extroversion is one (can't remember the others).

We did the enneagram in religion class at secondary school (a catholic school. The Catholics seem really into it, I'm not sure why. I can't remember what mine was, but I do remember finding it a strange topic for any class at school, let alone a religion one (the teachers seemed to have a lot of leeway with what they taught in religion class, one year we had comparative religion, one year bible stories, and the best one was pure philosophy with a brilliant teacher, The worst was just hearing about the implosion of the teacher's marriage. Hearing all about his husband's wrongdoings was not enjoyable,)

Another lesbian here who is not into astrology, in the slightest. Astronomy on the other hand...

To the bolded. I agree with this. Older Little Outta is currently at a Catholic school (love that school and will be so sad to leave it) and his religion class there is more focused on all kinds of topics and other religions than his religion class at his secular school in Germany. I found that very interesting and it made the school seem like a really good choice. They also really try to make sure they have different religions represented in the student body. The only think missing is a decent amount of Protestant children, but well, Belfast so what are you going to do? I like knowing that he is still interacting with Muslim and Hindu kids too (I don't think they currently have any Jewish students). I really did not expect such diversity at a Catholic school.

 

I found an Enneagram test online. I am going to take it and be super honest with myself to see what it says and then for fun ask my husband how I come across and answer them that way. I wonder if there will be any variation in the results and how I present myself vs. my honest with myself. Yay for Bank Holidays and free time for silly questions!

ETA: Hubby and I both took the the Pottermore sorting test years ago and when older Little Outta turned 11 we sat him down and had him take it (he is a major potterhead anyway, you should have seen how all out Potter-y his 11th birthday was, we even built a fireplace for letters to come out). He got Ravenclaw just like hubby. I think it helped their bond actually to be the same house. I also think it helped him learn to enjoy and proud of his natural talent academically which he had been struggling with (typical kids teasing the not good at sports smart kid, not horrible, just sad/annoying). We look forward to Littlest Outta turning 11 in exactly 10 years today and doing the same. Also: It is Littlest Outtas First Birthday!!!

Edited May 6, 2019 by StraightOuttaArkansas

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

11 minutes ago, StraightOuttaArkansas said:

Also: It is Littlest Outtas First Birthday!!!

Happy 1st Birthday to Littlest Outta!

[StraightOuttaArkansas]

@WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? I just showed him your post and he gave a huge smile! Thank you!!

[CharlieInCharge]

Had to speak up because I find it pretty funny there are several female INTJs here when it’s supposed to be pretty uncommon. I’m an INTJ, Enneagram 5 and proud member of house Ravenclaw. I look at all those tests in the same way - fun and kind of interesting, helpful in understanding yourself better, but not to be taken as literal definitions of who you are. 

 

Except for the Ravenclaw part, I take that SUPER serious - house patch on my bag, I wear almost exclusively blue clothes and my hair and makeup are all blue. (I really like the color blue, so it being Ravenclaw’s color has been a perfect fit) 

[Buzzard]

14 hours ago, Gobsmacked said:

Joy and Austin are expecting again!

Are you getting that from Anna's weird "throwback" post comments or was there another post somewhere?

[VBOY9977]

6 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Are you getting that from Anna's weird "throwback" post comments or was there another post somewhere?

They announced last Wednesday 

Spoiler

 

 

[justoneoftwo]

Am I wrong or did they not even wait a year?

[SassyPants]

7 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

Am I wrong or did they not even wait a year?

If she did, it was a year on the dot. She did not announce a specific due date (beyond the month), so it’s hard to say.

So the next question...do they have incredible luck, or do they use NFP, BC or does Joy become less than joyful  and unavailable? I’m sure they’d claim God decides all.

Such BS, IMO

[Ivycoveredtower]

12 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

Am I wrong or did they not even wait a year?

I would say they waited exactly a year. Gideon turned 1 in Feb and she's due in November.  in Jabbie's wedding episode Joy did say she wanted to at least be pregnant in 2019 if not giving birth to number 2 so this isn't surprising at all. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Ivycoveredtower

[theotherelise]

6 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

Am I wrong or did they not even wait a year?

We don't know when their exact due date is, but with a November due date, they likely conceived fairly* close to Gideon's first birthday on February 23. 

*Date of last menstrual period for a November due date is January 25-February 23. According to pregnancy dating (because they assume average cycles and day 14 ovulation), conception occurs two weeks later. So they would have conceived February 8-March 9. Joy could have gotten her period on Gideon's first birthday and still be pregnant with a November baby, thus waiting exactly one year.

@SassyPants It's weird to say, but I would love to know the answer to that question. I know others would disagree, but I think I'd put my money on barrier method birth control. I don't think they just did well with NFP. With typical usage, fertility awareness method results in 12-24% of women becoming pregnant. Another study lists 25% pregnancy rate for typical usage.

A lot of people around here think it's naive to believe any in the second gen use birth control, but I think the Vuolos definitely did the first year of their marriage. I think Jill is using something right now. And I do think the Forsyths used a birth control method beyond nfp. 

[Carm_88]

Garrett and Gideon! 

[Ivycoveredtower]

1 minute ago, Carm_88 said:

Garrett and Gideon! 

it will be interesting to see if somehow they end up with the same letter for baby 2.  I can see Kendra and Joy pregnant at the same time every baby for the next 20 years and that would be an interesting pattern with Jostin and Joken using the same letter for each child. so maybe like Andrew and Adam or Ivy and Isabella 

[medimus]

2 hours ago, theotherelise said:

We don't know when their exact due date is, but with a November due date, they likely conceived fairly* close to Gideon's first birthday on February 23. 

*Date of last menstrual period for a November due date is January 25-February 23. According to pregnancy dating (because they assume average cycles and day 14 ovulation), conception occurs two weeks later. So they would have conceived February 8-March 9. Joy could have gotten her period on Gideon's first birthday and still be pregnant with a November baby, thus waiting exactly one year.

@SassyPants It's weird to say, but I would love to know the answer to that question. I know others would disagree, but I think I'd put my money on barrier method birth control. I don't think they just did well with NFP. With typical usage, fertility awareness method results in 12-24% of women becoming pregnant. Another study lists 25% pregnancy rate for typical usage.

A lot of people around here think it's naive to believe any in the second gen use birth control, but I think the Vuolos definitely did the first year of their marriage. I think Jill is using something right now. And I do think the Forsyths used a birth control method beyond nfp. 

i wonder this too. Of course it is possible that all three of them don't use anything and things just worked out that way. But it would be unusual for such young women to take a year (or more) to get pregnant.

[kmachete14]

@medimus

Hello fellow Ravenclaw and catholic-school grad! My junior year religion class had an entire unit focused on the Enneagram. We never even talked about how it related to religion. Idk why they were so obsessed with it!

[theotherelise]

@medimus well, infertility can affect people of all ages. I started trying to conceive when I was 27. My cousin has dealt with infertility after she started trying at 23. It is more unlikely that Jill and Joy struggled after both having demonstrated high fertility with their first pregnancies, although secondary infertility does happen.

And of course they could just not be getting regular cycles back that quickly. Anna and Priscilla certainly seem to both have natural 18 month waiting times. We don't know how much that time is affected by lack of ovulation due to hormonal obstruction, lack of focus on attempts to conceive when you have a baby and are possibly co-sleeping too, and general fertility. Many of the second gen seem to breastfeed longer which can (but doesn't always) affect ovulation. 

No one will ever be able to convince me that Jinger didn't intentionally wait a year to start trying and then get pregnant right away. They were very evasive in talking about kids early on and made it clear that kids were in the 5 year plan, but not necessarily the immediate plan.

It all just feels a little too perfect.

I don't think anything happened to prevent Jill from having future pregnancies/births, but I do think they initially were going to wait the 18 months after c-section. Now with Derrick in law school, I think Jill will get pregnant such that she has a baby two weeks after he takes the bar exam. 

Back to Joy... if she has this baby with a vbac, I will be very curious to see how quickly she gets pregnant again. Give me all the data!

[Ivycoveredtower]

3 minutes ago, theotherelise said:

@medimus well, infertility can affect people of all ages. I started trying to conceive when I was 27. My cousin has dealt with infertility after she started trying at 23. It is more unlikely that Jill and Joy struggled after both having demonstrated high fertility with their first pregnancies, although secondary infertility does happen.

And of course they could just not be getting regular cycles back that quickly. Anna and Priscilla certainly seem to both have natural 18 month waiting times. We don't know how much that time is affected by lack of ovulation due to hormonal obstruction, lack of focus on attempts to conceive when you have a baby and are possibly co-sleeping too, and general fertility. Many of the second gen seem to breastfeed longer which can (but doesn't always) affect ovulation. 

No one will ever be able to convince me that Jinger didn't intentionally wait a year to start trying and then get pregnant right away. They were very evasive in talking about kids early on and made it clear that kids were in the 5 year plan, but not necessarily the immediate plan.

It all just feels a little too perfect.

I don't think anything happened to prevent Jill from having future pregnancies/births, but I do think they initially were going to wait the 18 months after c-section. Now with Derrick in law school, I think Jill will get pregnant such that she has a baby two weeks after he takes the bar exam. 

Back to Joy... if she has this baby with a vbac, I will be very curious to see how quickly she gets pregnant again. Give me all the data!

honestly I can see Joy going for 20 kids. her and Kendra I could see both having 20 especially Kendra if she has another easy pregnancy/birth. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

11 minutes ago, theotherelise said:

. Anna and Priscilla certainly seem to both have natural 18 month waiting times.

They are also both married to men who don’t appear to like them very much with what seems like a major lack of sexual chemistry.  

Maybe biology - maybe their headships take a fellowship break until they can’t avoid it.

[Italiangirl]

27 minutes ago, theotherelise said:

snip

Back to Joy... if she has this baby with a vbac, I will be very curious to see how quickly she gets pregnant again. Give me all the data!

According to duggar data if she has a vacancy with this and keep the spacing joy and Austin ESoQ  (espected size of Quiver) is 19 kids 

if she has another c section she will stop at 16 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Italiangirl

[SassyPants]

29 minutes ago, theotherelise said:

@medimus

It all just feels a little too perfect.

 

All just a little too perfect...all of it. Told to wait a year and bingo no pregnancy in a 21 YO married woman for a year. Told to wait 18 months. And bingo pregnant at the 18 month mark. Man, God is good, every day!

[justodd]

Slytherin

INTJ

Enneagram 5 with a 4 wing

 

I’m basically a big ball of insecurity who deals with it by intellectualizing as much as possible and will do pretty much anything to get by until the trade off becomes too high.

[Satan'sFortress]

I did Meyers Briggs for a class.  I am ESFJ. Apparently, the most hated among all personalities.    Mr Fortress did it for work & got INTP---completely opposite.  We have an interesting marriage.

[JustEnough]

First of all... Happy Birthday Littlest Outta! ?

As to the perfectness of timing, if they are using NFP (not the rhythm method which is way less effective) and not having sex when she is fertile that could explain it. It could be that they were very serious about making it to the one year (or 18 month in Jill's case) mark and gave themselves very limited days to be "joyfully available". Its possible to practice it trying to get as many "safe" days as possible, but also can be used with the goal of making it to whatever goal they set for themselves and therefore accepting fewer "safe" days with that goal in mind. 

It's also possible she never planned to wait a full year and was being open to another pregnancy from earlier on and just didn't get pregnant until when she did (could also be true for Jill... she may have waited only a year or whatever length and then loosened the reins and it happened after a few months). Even without NFP breastfeeding can delay fertility (but definitely doesn't always) and it's possible to not even get a cycle back until a year or even later. NFP can be harder with breastfeeding but if you're willing to do the Marquette method of test strips and an actual fertility monitor it's not impossible. I know many couples who have used that method to prevent, delay, and conceive and while no method is 100% and even being "joyfully available" during fertile times doesn't mean it'll happen on a set time line, it is possible to influence at least. We just don't know, but using birth control in the form of a barrier method would be a pretty big departure from what they have believed in in the past so while it's certainly possible, it's probably not the most likely option IMO. Especially not for all three of them at basically  the same time probably. 

[nickelodeon]

3 hours ago, theotherelise said:

 It's weird to say, but I would love to know the answer to that question. I know others would disagree, but I think I'd put my money on barrier method birth control. I don't think they just did well with NFP. [....] A lot of people around here think it's naive to believe any in the second gen use birth control, but I think the Vuolos definitely did the first year of their marriage. I think Jill is using something right now. And I do think the Forsyths used a birth control method beyond nfp. 

 

34 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

All just a little too perfect...all of it. Told to wait a year and bingo no pregnancy in a 21 YO married woman for a year. Told to wait 18 months. And bingo pregnant at the 18 month mark. Man, God is good, every day!

I'm also curious about this - that Joy and Jill both went sans pregnancy for the precise window of time recommended post-section and then immediately got pregnant makes me wonder what kind of strategies are available to the kids of hardline quiverfull parents. NFP? Cold turkey abstinence? Are they even equipped to start conversations about this?

A reddit user recently rewatched those VF-produced Michelle interviews, where she reflects on the Caleb miscarriage; the user quotes her saying that "with her own hand she allowed the baby to be destroyed" (by taking HBC.) Chemical birth control is definitely out.

[Bad Wolf]

That is so sad to believe you destroyed your own child. The guilt must have been overwhelming. Stupid "Christian" doctor to do that.

[xenobia]

6 hours ago, CharlieInCharge said:

Had to speak up because I find it pretty funny there are several female INTJs here when it’s supposed to be pretty uncommon. I’m an INTJ, Enneagram 5 and proud member of house Ravenclaw. I look at all those tests in the same way - fun and kind of interesting, helpful in understanding yourself better, but not to be taken as literal definitions of who you are. 

 

Another female INTJ reporting for duty   I've taken several personality tests, including DISC/DISA, where you're given a colour or two or three. (I'm blue with a splash of yellow, btw). 

I read something about personality tests that I thought was really insightful. The point with these tests isn't to show who you are - it's to show what you are most comfortable with. I can take on roles where I have to do things that doesn't come natural to me, and do them well. But when I can chose myself, I'm INTJ, blue (DISC/DISA) or the Investigator/type 5 (Enneagram) and so on.