Joy and Austin 26: Please Wear the Appropriate Footgear Around Horses

[SassyPants]

The positive side of c- sections is that it will likely mean fewer overall births. Can I get an amen?

Edited May 2, 2019 by SassyPants

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, twoandthrough said:

I think genetics definitely plays into this. I agree with all of what you said. I'll be interested to see how big any of Lauren and Josiah's future babies are since they both seem like smaller people overall (though I am only guessing that based on photos - haha - I really have no clue).

 

My older daughter was induced three days before my due date and was 6 lb 3 oz and 19 in. My second daughter was induced three WEEKS early (preeclampsia) and was 7 lb 3 oz and 19.5 in. So bizarre how much they differed, though I have since learned that daughter #2 was likely so big due to me being on fluids for 2 days during the induction before she was actually born. I guess doctors are finding that extra fluid fluffs up a baby... she later dropped to 6 lb flat before leaving the hospital 30 hours later despite nursing like a pro. 

Yes, I think genetics could be playing a few roles here. It’s absolutely possible their kids were just always going to be genetically big, it’s also possible that they were genetically predisposed to developing GD and didn’t know it, and it’s also possible both are true (along with other things I’m not considering.) I think you can say there’s evidence supporting all three, but unless a Doctor who has treated some/all of them decides to post we can’t know for sure.* I don’t think any of the biological sisters have sought prenatal care with a licensed Doctor, so I’m not sure how much testing they would have had in relation to GD. 

My daughter was exactly 5 pounds and 19 inches when I delivered her at 34 weeks. It’s tough for me to know how big or small that was for her gestational age, but the Doctors were extremely pleased by her size. I think if she had cooked until 40 weeks she could have ended up in the 8 pound range. I think they can grow between 3 and 6 inches in the third trimester (not sure about that), so she might have been a bit longer if she had stayed in too. It’ll be interesting to see how this next baby measures up if I’m able to carry it longer than my daughter.

*On the incredibly slim chance, please don't actually post if a Doctor who treated a Duggar is reading this. Medical privacy is a very important thing and should be respected for everyone, even the Duggars.

[SassyPants]

1 minute ago, VelociRapture said:

Yes, I think genetics could be playing a few roles here. It’s absolutely possible their kids were just always going to be genetically big, it’s also possible that they were genetically predisposed to developing GD and didn’t know it, and it’s also possible both are true (along with other things I’m not considering.) I think you can say there’s evidence supporting all three, but unless a Doctor who has treated some/all of them decides to post we can’t know for sure.* I don’t think any of the biological sisters have sought prenatal care with a licensed Doctor, so I’m not sure how much testing they would have had in relation to GD. 

My daughter was exactly 5 pounds and 19 inches when I delivered her at 34 weeks. It’s tough for me to know how big or small that was for her gestational age, but the Doctors were extremely pleased by her size. I think if she had cooked until 40 weeks she could have ended up in the 8 pound range. I think they can grow between 3 and 6 inches in the third trimester (not sure about that), so she might have been a bit longer if she had stayed in too. It’ll be interesting to see how this next baby measures up if I’m able to carry it longer than my daughter.

*On the incredibly slim chance, please don't actually post if a Doctor who treated a Duggar is reading this. Medical privacy is a very important thing and should be respected for everyone, even the Duggars.

5 lb is large for a 34 weeker. I would gander if she stayed on that growth trajectory and was born at term, she likely would have been 9+ lbs.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

but unless a Doctor who has treated some/all of them decides to post we can’t know for sure.*

Thank you!  Correlation =\= causation and how people think they can diagnose strangers from tv or the size of their babies I’ll never know.

I had largish  babies sizes being discussed here and never had GD and yes, excellent prenatal care throughout.  

[SassyPants]

IIRC, on the show Joy was shown going for a prenatal visit and was told that her blood glucose was elevated, and was given instructions in to how to modify her diet. If a professional tells you have an abnormal blood value AND your kid is born macrosomic and quickly shrinks to skinny once free from the placenta...I think most can safely connect the dots as to the likely scenario. 

[Screamapillar]

I had GD with both my pregnancies. Daughter was born tall and skinny (6lb 15oz, 21 inches) and is still tall and skinny. Son was born tall and heavy side of normal (8lb 8oz, 22 inches) and is still tall and heavy, but well proportioned (At almost 8 months he's the height and weight of an average 18 month old). He never dropped below his birth weight, was already 10 pounds at his two week check-up, and our pediatrician said that he might have been that big at birth, genetically, if I hadn't been strictly following my GD plan. So my birth canal thanks you, GD diet and medication, for sparing it from a 10lb newborn.

 

[VelociRapture]

42 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Thank you!  Correlation =\= causation and how people think they can diagnose strangers from tv or the size of their babies I’ll never know.

I had largish  babies sizes being discussed here and never had GD and yes, excellent prenatal care throughout.  

 

48 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

5 lb is large for a 34 weeker. I would gander if she stayed on that growth trajectory and was born at term, she likely would have been 9+ lbs.

I had excellent prenatal care and tested negative for GD as well. We did learn this year that I had undiagnosed PCOS and I believe there might be a link between the two, so it’s something I’ll be discussing with my OBGYN this time around. My daughter was exactly 3 feet tall and just over 31 pounds at her 2 year wellness check. I think it’s likely she was going to be a big kid regardless, but I’d rather proceed with caution just in case. 

39 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

IIRC, on the show Joy was shown going for a prenatal visit and was told that her blood glucose was elevated, and was given instructions in to how to modify her diet. If a professional tells you have an abnormal blood value AND your kid is born macrosomic and quickly shrinks to skinny once free from the placenta...I think most can safely connect the dots as to the likely scenario. 

I think Joy is the only one who had something like that aired on the show then. Jill had an early appointment or two shown with Izzy, but I don’t recall them showing anything about GD testing (which doesn’t mean she didn’t get it, just that nothing was shown.) I don’t think much at all was shown of her pregnancy with Sam because Danger America. Who knows what care she was or was not receiving that time. Jessa’s first pregnancy wasn’t covered until the very end because of Josh’s scandals, so I would say that one is the toughest to really judge on. We do know she’s mentioned she tried eating healthier with Henry and he was a pound smaller than Spurgeon, but he was still pretty big. With Jinger it’s tough to know too because she was induced ahead of her due date and because I have no clue what they actually showed of her pregnancy appointments either. 

So while I do think there’s evidence to suggest some or all of them might have had GD, I also don’t think anything is definitively proven either. If you’re remembering correctly then Joy is likely the only one we can say had a strong chance of having GD based off Gideon’s size, the fact he shrunk after birth, and what you said you remember from the show.

[mollysmom]

7 hours ago, HereticHick said:

They are going to need one of those panorama cameras for the mass belly pic.

 

They should just declare one day a month (say, 2nd Sunday afternoon) for a mass birthday celebration. And yes, they should erect a big picnic pavilion on their property.

She said erect!  (that's my 10 year old self coming out!) 

[SassyPants]

44 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

 

I had excellent prenatal care and tested negative for GD as well. We did learn this year that I had undiagnosed PCOS and I believe there might be a link between the two, so it’s something I’ll be discussing with my OBGYN this time around. My daughter was exactly 3 feet tall and just over 31 pounds at her 2 year wellness check. I think it’s likely she was going to be a big kid regardless, but I’d rather proceed with caution just in case. 

I think Joy is the only one who had something like that aired on the show then. Jill had an early appointment or two shown with Izzy, but I don’t recall them showing anything about GD testing (which doesn’t mean she didn’t get it, just that nothing was shown.) I don’t think much at all was shown of her pregnancy with Sam because Danger America. Who knows what care she was or was not receiving that time. Jessa’s first pregnancy wasn’t covered until the very end because of Josh’s scandals, so I would say that one is the toughest to really judge on. We do know she’s mentioned she tried eating healthier with Henry and he was a pound smaller than Spurgeon, but he was still pretty big. With Jinger it’s tough to know too because she was induced ahead of her due date and because I have no clue what they actually showed of her pregnancy appointments either. 

So while I do think there’s evidence to suggest some or all of them might have had GD, I also don’t think anything is definitively proven either. If you’re remembering correctly then Joy is likely the only one we can say had a strong chance of having GD based off Gideon’s size, the fact he shrunk after birth, and what you said you remember from the show.

I wish we knew IF these ladies are getting professional, routine prenatal care. I am not confident that they all are. I think Michelle did. I think Kendra and Jinger did. I think Jill had some spotty care, perhaps provided by a lay midwife during her first Pregnancy. Not sure about Joy beyond the 1 visit that was shown, Jill’s second pregnancy or any of Jessa’s. Same goes for the birthing experiences. Jill and Joy appear to have taken big risks, and resulting in less desirable experiences. Again, not sure about Jessa. Kendra and Jinger, the ladies who have been shown receiving the best care have had more favorable experiences. I think Anna gets care, based on what was shown when she was on the show as a regular.

TL;DR- if your mission in life is to birth babies for Jesus, how about you go all in and do it the best way you can: educate yourself on the entire process, seek care, have a realistic plan, medical insurance ...put in the effort. 

Edited May 2, 2019 by SassyPants

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, mollysmom said:

She said erect! 

That's how they keep ending up like this!

50 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

if your mission in life is to birth babies for Jesus, how about you go all in and do it the best way you can: educate yourself on the entire process, seek care, have a realistic plan, medical insurance ...put in the effort. 

Especially after the way science saved their miracle baby, Josie.  FFS I don't know how/why prenatal care isn't a given.  

[Elvis Presby]

3 hours ago, Antipatriarch said:

Yep; mine was 51% I- and 49% E-, practically tied.

On the one hand, I have no problem performing or speaking in public, I'm comfortable leading a group, etc. Nobody would ever call me "shy" or "quiet".

On the other hand, I get worn out when I'm with people all the time, recharge by being alone, would rather be home alone with a book than at a large social gathering.

So I like this "ambivert" label. ?

I am also 51% I and 49% E.  When I tell people I am an introvert, they usually laugh and tell me I'm not shy.  No, I'm not shy at all.  I just find frivolous exchanges and small talk somewhat draining.

[AtlanticTug]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

5 lb is large for a 34 weeker. I would gander if she stayed on that growth trajectory and was born at term, she likely would have been 9+ lbs.

I don't think she'd have been that big. It's just over the 50th percentile. 

I had a 36 weeker weight in at 6 lb 12 and that was 90th percentile and I don't even think that trajectory would have gotten us to 9 lbs at full term.

Gideon was really huge and he has had a massive "catch down" ever since.

[nausicaa]

3 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Thank you!  Correlation =\= causation and how people think they can diagnose strangers from tv or the size of their babies I’ll never know.

I had largish  babies sizes being discussed here and never had GD and yes, excellent prenatal care throughout.  

I always laugh when people are shocked at the Duggar baby sizes. I used to think 6/7 lbs was preemie size. My brother was nearly 12 lbs. I was my mom's smallest baby at 9 lbs and some change. No GD, full prenatal care, and that woman had textbook perfect vaginal deliveries. 

Some people just have big ass babies. 

Edited May 2, 2019 by nausicaa

[VVV]

Re GD and baby sizes: I had excellent prenatal care with all three pregnancies and passed the initial GD screening with flying colors each time. No problems.

Baby #1 (boy) was 8 lbs 10 oz, born about a week late. Perfectly healthy.

Baby #2 (boy) was 8 lbs even, born eight days early--the fact that I was still nursing Baby (toddler) #1 might have had something to do with that. He was perfectly healthy.

Baby #3 (girl) was 9 lbs 5 oz, born just a few days after her due date and perfectly healthy. It was super annoying that they had to do the blood tests on her for her first 12 hours or so because she was over 9 lbs, but everything came out normal, as I knew it would. She proceeded to slide down the growth curve for the next six months until she stabilized at the small side of average.

No GD for me then, no diabetes for me now, all three kids are extremely healthy, normal sized adults. I just grew big babies. Some women just do that.

[Vivi_music]

4 hours ago, Antipatriarch said:

Yep; mine was 51% I- and 49% E-, practically tied.

On the one hand, I have no problem performing or speaking in public, I'm comfortable leading a group, etc. Nobody would ever call me "shy" or "quiet".

On the other hand, I get worn out when I'm with people all the time, recharge by being alone, would rather be home alone with a book than at a large social gathering.

So I like this "ambivert" label. ?

Are you me? Public speaking is actually part of my job (not to mention I love that part of my job, and I think I do it quite well... not bragging). So no one believes me when I say I feel like an introvert inside. I would definitely qualify as an ''ambivert'' as well.

As for GD, I know my Mom's own story. I will put the information under a spoiler because I don't want to trigger anyone.

Spoiler

My sister is alive and well and so is my mother, but still pretty traumatic. My sister was 11 lbs at birth and it was a very difficult birth. She was not coming out despite my mother's work during the labour. At one point my Mom felt something was off and she asked the nurse to check the heartbeat. Turns out the baby's little heart had indeed stop beating and the doctor was called in emergency. They took her out with forceps. My Mom said that the nurses even pushed on her belly for the baby to come out as fast as possible. She had bruises on her stomach many days after the birth. When she was born, my sister failed her Apgar test and had no heartbeat. My mother says she has very blurry memory of what happened next but as soon as she was out, they tried CPR on my sister and ended up using the defibrilators. Her little heart did start beating again. She was partly paralized on her left side for the first few months of her life (her left arm mainly) but with good physical therapy, she was pretty much had a normal developpement by her 1st birthday. She is grew up perfectly fine, who is now a 35 YO woman, who became a mother herself in the last few years.

The diagnosis fell after the birth. My mom indeed had untreated GD diabetes and a bad case of it. And that was despite being followed by a pediatrician all through her pregnancy. And one can not say she was prone to having babies on the bigger side because her two previous babies were 6lb and 8lb. Apparently at the time, my aunt (mother's sister) was so mad about the lack riggour from the doctor that she wanted to sue the hopsital. ?

My mother did change pediatrician when she became pregnant with me and told the story of the past birth. So she had a very thorough medical care for me with insulin and I was born a normal 7lb with an (thankfully) uneventful birth

I just wanted to share the story to the discussion, but I am not in the medical field, so my own mother's experience with GD is just one anecdote. I do not think every GD case is the same and in no way I'm trying to diagnose the Duggar girls and their bigger babies.

[JinAndBonnets]

On 5/1/2019 at 2:32 PM, VBOY9977 said:

18 months is a recommended time but plenty of people don’t follow that advice. Personally, I don’t think waiting guarantees anything. For instance. Alyssa Campana Morton had a vbac 12 Months after her c-section. Jill waited the recommended time and didn’t get a Vbac. It really just depends on how your body heals and on the circumstances of your pregnancy and labor. 

As for Joy being cleared, it also depends on how her subsequent pregnancies progress. Michelle had several vbacs after her c-section with Jana and John but then had to get one with Jackson, had a couple of more vbacs and ended back in the OR with Jordyn

also: note how Michelle never waited 18 months after her c-sections and still managed a whole lot of vbacs

First time poster, chiming in late on the VBAC discussion...

You can play with this calculator to see someone’s likelihood of a successful VBAC and prior vaginal delivery is weighed very heavily. 

Joy’s age, race, and health go in her favor, and the fact that her cesarean was for breech (I think?) is also in her favor. 

Using the calculator for Joy I get a 77.9% chance for success (with estimating her BMI). That is pretty good. In general if the score is greater than 60% your morbidity with a Trial of Labor after cesarean is equal of less than a planned repeat cesarean.  

If she has a successful vaginal delivery and then deliver again at 23 years old, I get 95.6% chance of success. 

https://mfmunetwork.bsc.gwu.edu/PublicBSC/MFMU/VGBirthCalc/vagbirth.html

*This is not medical advice, just for interest’s sake. There are other factors that go into why any one person should lean toward a VBAC or a cesarean that are not included in this calculator.*

 

[Arkfundy]

No GD here...2 over 9lbs and one over 11...all vaginal births. My dr. said “you grow then big don’t you”...

[mango_fandango]

My mum had gestational diabetes with me, I believe. I was a day early, 7lbs 11oz.

My father was born two weeks late and was 10lbs. No idea what he would’ve been if he’d been born on time. I do know that my grandma ate a lot of Mars Bars whilst pregnant apparently... 

 

[JordynDarby5]

After a long dry spell of no pregnancy and then just one. They are making up for lost time. It'll be interesting to see who announces next if its Abbie or Lauren.  I lean towards Abbie, then Lauren, and maybe Jill by the end of the year or early next year. 

[SweetJuly]

How is it possible that this baby bonanza is both fun and exciting, and boring and depressing at the same time?

[TheMustardCardigan]

At this point most Duggar pregnancies are going to be pretty unsurprising. Out of all of them I’m curious to see when Jill will announce. I feel like it’s been a while for her, she has seemed to be in kind of a funk, started wearing pants and got a nose ring, just built a house that doesn’t have the capacity for a ton of kids, doesn’t seem to hang at the TTH as much as, say, Jessa... I’m just wondering if their quiver plans have changed in any way. 

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

1 hour ago, SweetJuly said:

How is it possible that this baby bonanza is both fun and exciting, and boring and depressing at the same time?

With all those emotions you'd think WE were the ones hopped up on pregnancy homones.

[VelociRapture]

11 minutes ago, VeryNikeSeamstress said:

With all those emotions you'd think WE were the ones hopped up on pregnancy homones.

Some of us are. It’s been an interesting few weeks. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by VelociRapture

[SassyPants]

10 hours ago, JinAndBonnets said:

First time poster, chiming in late on the VBAC discussion...

You can play with this calculator to see someone’s likelihood of a successful VBAC and prior vaginal delivery is weighed very heavily. 

Joy’s age, race, and health go in her favor, and the fact that her cesarean was for breech (I think?) is also in her favor. 

Using the calculator for Joy I get a 77.9% chance for success (with estimating her BMI). That is pretty good. In general if the score is greater than 60% your morbidity with a Trial of Labor after cesarean is equal of less than a planned repeat cesarean.  

If she has a successful vaginal delivery and then deliver again at 23 years old, I get 95.6% chance of success. 

https://mfmunetwork.bsc.gwu.edu/PublicBSC/MFMU/VGBirthCalc/vagbirth.html

*This is not medical advice, just for interest’s sake. There are other factors that go into why any one person should lean toward a VBAC or a cesarean that are not included in this calculator.*

 

I’m a bit confused with this post. Is this about achieving a successful V-bac or are the %s referring to morbidity with a v-bac vs having a c-section? Also, the line, “trial of labor” is confusing. I guess I should read the study.  LOL Also LOL how both Duggar ladies with huge babies requiring c-sections claim they were suddenly, after hours/days of labors, found to have babies in the breech position. Jill even claims that Izzy flipped. Shitty labor care or fabrication, take your pick.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

I'm still not convinced Gideon was breech, I think he was just too big for Joy to deliver vaginally. I think this time, she will get prenatal care from Kendra's doctor and will have a much smaller baby, under 9 lbs. 

I'm guessing Jill isn't built internally for natural births and I'd be surprised if they had any more kids. I still think something happened during Samuel's birth that will prevent Jill from safely delivering another child.