Dillards 70: Their Behavior Is Always Pretty Weird

[Georgiana]

29 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

And I do wonder about the fact that many of the things that Jill claimed on the show to like or desire have not planned out at all. Mission work, Spanish language and midwife skills, having in Jill’s words “lots of kids” have all proved unsuccessful. I do wonder how these disappointments have affected the Dillard’s relationship and both of their temperaments. 

And we have to remember that some of these claims/desires came from the mouth of a child.  If you had asked young Gee what she wanted to do with her life, some of the things I'm doing now would be there, others would be there in a lesser extent, and some are completely different.  We grow, we change, we go through phases.  And it's not uncommon for someone to profess a desire for X, but then choose not to do X when they realize how much work it is.  Sometimes, it's just more work than you're in for.  

I think a major thing for Jill is just that she expected all of these things to come easily for her because life had come a bit easily before that point.  I think she was stunned and unprepared when things were much more difficult than she expected, and because it all happened in S America, she ONLY had Derick to turn to.  The problem with sheltering your children from all adversity is that they grow up to be adults who have no skills for dealing with adversity.  And if you've ever met such an adult....good lord are they a handful. I ran into a few in college when I was a Resident Adviser, and they take up so much time, emotional resources, and just need SO FREAKING MUCH.  They aren't bad people, they're just people with a huge need that can be very, very draining for others to fill.  And all this is going on as Derick is experiencing serious health issues.  I think it definitely strained the relationship because Derick wasn't able (likely for good reason) to hand-hold Jill the way she needed to be coddled and guided.  So Jill felt abandoned in her lowest moments by her Prince Charming sent by God.  There's no way she's looking at him the same after that.  Meanwhile, Derick feels frustrated that he's been saddled with a partner who is unable to bear her share of the load when he has health problems and begins to see his marriage as a burden (perhaps justifiably).  I get that.  It's just a bad, bad match.  And the person to blame, I think, is JB: for overselling Jill to Derick AND for backing Jill into a corner.  I don't think JB maliciously intended to do that, but I think that's what he did. 

28 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

I agree with this, though I don't see her as a helpless bystander (not implying you do, though).  I think she expected Derick to be Prince Charming, the Lord to give her healthy deliveries on her own terms, and TLC to keep the gravy train going for a very long time because she trusted her "authorities" and because she wanted things that way.  I'm not sure she knows what to do when things are going wrong, so perhaps she just doubles down and pretends they're fine?  She actively defended Josh and promoted Derick when public opinion seemed turned against them.  She was in labor with Israel for way long after her water broke, I'm guessing because she was determined to have a vaginal birth, then ended up needing a c-section.  We don't know the details associated with Sam's birth and subsequent problems.  She wanted to go on a mission to CA, or whatever they were doing there, but seemed to not like it when they were there.  Did she think it would be the same as her family going for a week or two, handing out presents, feeding and hugging orphans, and having each other for support pretty much all the time?  I think she needs to look at each situation for what it is vs. what she wants, reevaluate her goals as necessary, then research, plan, and work to achieve them. 

I think Jill was so used to things going her way that when she faced adversity...she froze.  She didn't know what to do, so she did nothing.  And I think it was hard for her to address failure before it reached a crisis point (Izzy's labor, mission work, probably her marriage) because she was raised to believe that God doesn't allow good Christians to fail.  He protects them and guides them.  So she may have identified that things were going poorly but persevered because she was literally raised to expect a miracle.  Until no miracle happened.  And then she's left wondering WHY she doesn't deserve God's protection.  What did she do?  Why didn't God step in and save the situation?  

But yes, I definitely think that Jill expected mission work to be a long term missioncation.  She didn't expect any real danger.  She didn't expect any inconvenience.  She expected to go to a foreign country, help adoring and grateful locals, and then return to much praise and fanfare in the States, all while downplaying how amazing she was for doing all that while popping out another blessing.  

[cascarones]

11 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

It seems that fundy men do not want women on their level, at least not those who have achieved much in the intellectual arena despite their potential. It is nice to be in a relationship with someone who you find mentally stimulating, for me it is far better than when, in the interest of not being snobbish, I had few standards in this regard

I get this, but isn't it mentally stimulating to be with a partner who you see is smarter than you and you can learn things from? That's a big thing for me, it's not snobbish, but I played dumb and sweet for most of my youth. Maybe this was a big draw for Jill.

Derick is clearly welcoming her into his educational journey, which is nice to see. 

ETA (found my words!): If we are going to say all fundy men don't want women on their level, we should also consider that fundy women, who have had their education denied or limited, might want a man who hasn't. They might view this as hopeful or a way to broaden their horizons. That might just be me reading too much historical literature, but it is a common theme and "escape" for women who don't have the rights or opportunities they want.

[feministxtian]

14 minutes ago, cascarones said:

I get this, but isn't it mentally stimulating to be with a partner who you see is smarter than you and you can learn things from? That's a big thing for me, it's not snobbish, but I played dumb and sweet for most of my youth. Maybe this was a big draw for Jill.

I am probably more intelligent, definitely more well-read and knowledgeable on many things than my husband. He loves it when I explain things to him (the starting/charging system on his truck for example) however, I find it to be sort of a pain in the butt. I mean, things that are so obvious to me, he's totally in the dark about. Sometimes I have to keep from rolling my eyes and watch for the condescending tone of voice...it's HARD at times to be with a "brain sponge" and you find yourself sometimes in the role of teacher with that person. It can be a real drag. 

****this is not to be taken as Mr. Xtian is dumb...he has a history of learning disabilities and was never pushed much academically. 

[Maggie Mae]

1 hour ago, Dandruff said:

I think she needs to look at each situation for what it is vs. what she wants, reevaluate her goals as necessary, then research, plan, and work to achieve them. 

I think she's still in the romantic "I'll do what God whats, and I think that God wants me to do this because (misinterpreted) scripture says that God chose my husband and this is my life." She's not going to evaluate what she wants as much as "i want to do this, does it go with what God wants?" There's not a lot of long-term planning when your life is "take what God gives you." 

[SilverBeach]

42 minutes ago, cascarones said:

I get this, but isn't it mentally stimulating to be with a partner who you see is smarter than you and you can learn things from? That's a big thing for me, it's not snobbish, but I played dumb and sweet for most of my youth. Maybe this was a big draw for Jill.

Derick is clearly welcoming her into his educational journey, which is nice to see. 

ETA (found my words!): If we are going to say all fundy men don't want women on their level, we should also consider that fundy women, who have had their education denied or limited, might want a man who hasn't. They might view this as hopeful or a way to broaden their horizons. That might just be me reading too much historical literature, but it is a common theme and "escape" for women who don't have the rights or opportunities they want.

I wouldn't say my partner is smarter than me, but he is knowledgeable about many things that I am not, and vice versa. We learn from each other, that's what I find stimulating.  Personally, I don't want someone "smarter" than me, in terms of intellectual capacity. I have more formal education, but not more intellect. I have never played dumb.

We don't know that Dewreck is welcoming her as much as he is accepting her in her role as a supportive helpmeet. I never said all fundy men, there's always exceptions. But yes, it is a two-sided phenomena. Marrying "up" is a thing, so I don't doubt that there are fundy women who seek men they perceive as smarter than them, especially since the men are supposed to bring in the income and make all major decisions. It's part of the patriarchy. In 2018, in the US, this just isn't necessary but some fundy daughters have learned helplessness and see themselves as less capable because they are women. Which is a shame, because they are not.

[Maggie Mae]

53 minutes ago, cascarones said:

I get this, but isn't it mentally stimulating to be with a partner who you see is smarter than you and you can learn things from?

For me, I like my partner to be at my same level but have different interests. So we can challenge each other and think things through. I did not enjoy being with someone who considered himself to be intellectually superior, nor did I enjoy being with someone who was sweet but oh so dumb. (Well meaning, but just not a deep thinker. It was not a good relationship for me - I need someone to push back or at least thing of things I haven't thought of yet. I also don't like being forced to make all of the decisions or having to convince someone who is supposed to be my partner of the importance of voting/reading/school) 

[SassyPants]

I was the snob who said that I could not be with an intellectual bottom feeder. Sorry, not sorry, my standard has worked out well for me. I know, snob thinking. Another poster claimed that Derick likely knew that Jill was less intelligent and thus would not be able to home school. Me, being the snob that I am disagreed  with that assertion. I think that DD believes that JD is perfectly capable of educating their children. I wish people would follow entire threads before commenting.

A bottom feeder is an individual who lacks common sense and basic logic. A bottom feeder is lazy and lacks self drive. A bottom feeder is a weight that drags another down as opposed to a complimentary partner.

[sleepy_doggos]

I think that DD believes that JD is perfectly capable of educating their children.

Derek (sp?) might also be the kind of person who thinks educating children is not very hard.

[PennySycamore]

If the baked beans were ordinary ol' pork and beans,  it's pretty common, at least here in the South, to eat those unheated.  And straight out of the can if you're not serving anyone but yourself.  

[Maggie Mae]

36 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

If the baked beans were ordinary ol' pork and beans,  it's pretty common, at least here in the South, to eat those unheated.  And straight out of the can if you're not serving anyone but yourself.  

Is that why my ex from Alabama never heated up anything in cans? I thought he was just gross. 

Nah, he was still gross. But maybe that one thing wasn't as bad as I thought.  

[feministxtian]

2 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

If the baked beans were ordinary ol' pork and beans,  it's pretty common, at least here in the South, to eat those unheated.  And straight out of the can if you're not serving anyone but yourself.  

I used to eat lots of stuff straight out of the can or container...usually because I was so hungry I couldn't wait. Pork & beans, Chef Boyardee, canned veggies, leftovers. Then again, I've been known to eat room temperature (defrosted) burritos and hot pockets because I was either too lazy or too busy to heat them up (hello 12 hour workdays).

[apandaaries]

6 hours ago, JesSky03 said:

Oh for sure, just pointing out that I don't think its weird to give a kid room temperature food straight from a can. I mean tomato sauce with a straw is really weird to me but if the kid likes it then whatever. If Michelle had given the baby the can and a spoon while sitting in a high chair would we still be criticizing her?

I’d be judging, but mainly because there are still sharp, dangerous edges to cans. As a grown adult, I’ve cut myself plenty of times rushing around in the kitchen, and I understand that those edges are sharp. A baby isn’t going to understand that but could still give themselves a bad cut from exploring what was given to them.

I’m also one who wouldn’t just feed out of a can; it doesn’t seem right to me. I’d still use some kind of dish ware. Even my pets have proper bowls that are washed repeatedly;  I wouldn’t expect less for my baby. 

[feministxtian]

36 minutes ago, apandaaries said:

I’d be judging, but mainly because there are still sharp, dangerous edges to cans. As a grown adult, I’ve cut myself plenty of times rushing around in the kitchen, and I understand that those edges are sharp. A baby isn’t going to understand that but could still give themselves a bad cut from exploring what was given to them.

I’m also one who wouldn’t just feed out of a can; it doesn’t seem right to me. I’d still use some kind of dish ware. Even my pets have proper bowls that are washed repeatedly;  I wouldn’t expect less for my baby. 

#1 son got straight from the jar...but that was because he was NOT about to wait. At 2 months old I was pouring food down his throat like he was a baby bird. He had an outsized appetite and NO patience. He started screaming the minute that umbilical cord was cut and the only thing that would quiet him was a FULL gut. He hasn't changed much, he's a grumpy shit when he's hungry even now. I remember him being a real asshole and I'd tell him to get something to eat...voila! Reasonably rational kid again. Nothing "wrong" with him, just an insane appetite and metabolism. At 31 (now), he's 6'1" and about 175lbs. Still eats like a starved T-Rex who hasn't eaten in a week. #2 son ain't much better but he's a sorta asshole all the time. 

These were the kids who would raid the fridge, head to Mc Donald's to get to Wendy's and then stop at Taco Bell on the way home. Hey, I wasn't paying for it!!! Back in those days (10 years ago or so), my grocery bill was about 300 bucks every 2 weeks. 

[What the Fundie]

5 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I was the snob who said that I could not be with an intellectual bottom feeder. Sorry, not sorry, my standard has worked out well for me. I know, snob thinking. Another poster claimed that Derick likely knew that Jill was less intelligent and thus would not be able to home school. Me, being the snob that I am disagreed  with that assertion. I think that DD believes that JD is perfectly capable of educating their children. I wish people would follow entire threads before commenting.

A bottom feeder is an individual who lacks common sense and basic logic. A bottom feeder is lazy and lacks self drive. A bottom feeder is a weight that drags another down as opposed to a complimentary partner.

I thought a bottom feeder was an oyster, clam or scallop.

[apandaaries]

1 hour ago, feministxtian said:

#1 son got straight from the jar...but that was because he was NOT about to wait. At 2 months old I was pouring food down his throat like he was a baby bird. He had an outsized appetite and NO patience. He started screaming the minute that umbilical cord was cut and the only thing that would quiet him was a FULL gut. He hasn't changed much, he's a grumpy shit when he's hungry even now. I remember him being a real asshole and I'd tell him to get something to eat...voila! Reasonably rational kid again. Nothing "wrong" with him, just an insane appetite and metabolism. At 31 (now), he's 6'1" and about 175lbs. Still eats like a starved T-Rex who hasn't eaten in a week. #2 son ain't much better but he's a sorta asshole all the time. 

These were the kids who would raid the fridge, head to Mc Donald's to get to Wendy's and then stop at Taco Bell on the way home. Hey, I wasn't paying for it!!! Back in those days (10 years ago or so), my grocery bill was about 300 bucks every 2 weeks. 

I feel like there’s a difference between baby food jars and straight up open cans. A jar lacks sharp edges and is designed for easy, quick eating (though I’d still warm things up, etc). Cans, IMO, are designed for heating or some light preparation before serving, especially with the sharp edges and potential for cuts with a little one. And there’s a huge difference between what a teen can handle v a toddler or younger.

For example, I’d feed a kid from a jar of applesauce. I wouldn’t feed a kid unheated tomato sauce, even from a jar, just because I’d be thinking of the overall meal. There isn’t a spot in my meal planning for unheated tomato sauce.

I’m all for satiating appetites and filling bellies, but I’m still a sucker for safety with the little ones. And eating straight out of cans, for me, is a bit of a problem. It’s not too difficult to use real plates or bowls, especially those designed for littles, and then wash them.

[feministxtian]

by the time the kid got old enough to feed itself, it either got food on the high chair tray or in a bowl (depending on age and the possibility of said bowl being thrown on the floor). I guess my kids started feeding themselves somewhere between 6 and 9 months and then got the whole bowl/spoon combo at maybe a year. Honestly, I don't remember how old they were when I introduced a spoon/bowl. I can say my kids all have reasonably decent table manners now, but what they do is their problem for the most part...they're too damn old for me to care anymore. 

I do remember, my daughter was VERY selective with eating. If it was something that would get her hands dirty (pre-spoon), she would NOT feed herself. I mean, nope, wasn't happening. My boys? Considering that #2 son would drink out of the dogs' water dish**, well...you can figure it out from there. 

**We asked the pediatrician about that...his answer was "do the dogs mind?" We had 3 big dogs at the time and well, as long as the dogs didn't mind, he said not to worry about it. We lived next door to our ped's inlaws so we saw him outside the office pretty regularly. 

[MarblesMom]

1 hour ago, What the Fundie said:

I thought a bottom feeder was an oyster, clam or scallop.

I used to have an aquarium and I loved our bottom feeders..... productive, useful and sort of playful.

 

[nastyhobbitses]

11 hours ago, Georgiana said:

The problem with sheltering your children from all adversity is that they grow up to be adults who have no skills for dealing with adversity.  And if you've ever met such an adult....good lord are they a handful. I ran into a few in college when I was a Resident Adviser, and they take up so much time, emotional resources, and just need SO FREAKING MUCH.  They aren't bad people, they're just people with a huge need that can be very, very draining for others to fill.

I had to do a lot of catch-up adulting in my late teens and early 20s because as good a job as I think my parents did, they still shielded me from a lot and I kinda had to figure shit out later than I should have figured it out. I did, and now I pride myself on being resourceful and adaptable, but I wish I could send gift baskets to everyone who had to put up with my idiocy. 

On the other hand, I met people at college who were even more sheltered than I was. I'm talking didn't know how to cook beyond putting processed muck in a microwave and ordering a pizza (and then wondered why their clothes no longer fit), called mommy about every little thing, had to learn how to grocery shop, et cetera. Parents, please throw your kids into the deep end every so often. I know you feel this protective instinct, but will you feel it when your 22-year-old can barely function on their own and can't handle basic tasks without calling you to whine, because you never let them learn to figure things out for themselves? Even if you're giving your kids a charmed life, at least teach them to be resourceful and see "thing I'm unfamiliar with/don't know how to do" as a surmountable challenge/learning opportunity and not a massive impenetrable roadblock. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

On 12/6/2018 at 11:36 AM, Carm_88 said:

That's funny, I'm pretty much a classic introvert and I make decisions all the time with less than full information. I'm quite decisive.

Me too, I can't stand indecisive people, well I can I married one, but it drives me crazy. Mr Names rethinks, over thinks, rethinks again, goes back for more info, forgets about it for a while, then starts the whole process over again. It can seriously take him 2 HOURS to decide weather or not to go out for dinner. On the rare occasions I still ask him that is, I just tell him "we're going out tonight" and he say's OK. I know better than to ask anymore he'll spend hours thinking about it and then say "you pick". The very last time we did that I said fine, lets go to whatever restaurant, had the nerve to say "No, I really want this restaurant".   We didn't go out, after I got done shrieking at him  WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T YOU SAY YOUR CHOICE IN THE 1ST PLACE? 

Does anyone else have a significant other who does shit like this, asks you a question you give them the answer and then they disagree with your answer, or argue with you about it? I'm always like if you didn't want my opinion/thoughts why did you ask me? 

[Firebird]

 

2 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Does anyone else have a significant other who does shit like this, asks you a question you give them the answer and then they disagree with your answer, or argue with you about it? I'm always like if you didn't want my opinion/thoughts why did you ask me?

HahaHaha I think that is me. It drives my husband NUTS! But in my head I don't see it as arguing, just discussing why I view my opinion as different from his. I grew up in a very argumentative emotionally abusive household, and my husband grew up in a household that never discussed anything, especially if you didn't agree. My husband and I are still trying to find a way to meet in the middle.

[WiseGirl]

4 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

Parents, please throw your kids into the deep end every so often. I know you feel this protective instinct, but will you feel it when your 22-year-old can barely function on their own and can't handle basic tasks without calling you to whine, because you never let them learn to figure things out for themselves

Preach! I see it all the time in school.  IMO, Helicopter parents are stunting their child's growth, but worse are the, to me, are the ones who don't hold their children to any level of responsibility.  Case in point parent meeting the child admitted they are failing because they didn't do the work. Parent responds by blaming the teacher and calling a meeting with the principal. 

Children need to learn to problem solve in real life (As opposed to Fortnite*sigh*).

I digress.  I also think that I should come up with a summer school program on life skills. Pretty sure I could supplement my income quite well with that.

[TheMustardCardigan]

I accidentally cut myself on an open can when I was very young messing around in the kitchen while my mom was cooking dinner. I think I tried to reach in the can for a baby corn when my mom wasn't looking. Had to get stitches. Cans can be a safety hazard!

[VelociRapture]

Just to let everyone worrying about cans and babies know - they make can openers they don’t leave sharp edges now. Husband and I own one and he uses it all the time. I use the older one that does leave sharp edges because I like to live dangerously. 

(Not really. I just always forget how to position it properly. I didn’t feed Velocitoddler directly out of a can so I figured it was fine, since my fingers are the only ones at risk. )

[SilverBeach]

One thing I am snobbish about is eating out of cans, have never done it, not even as a poor undergraduate, never fed my child out of a can either. It's a good idea to pour out the contents of cans before consuming just in case of contamination.

15 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I was the snob who said that I could not be with an intellectual bottom feeder. Sorry, not sorry, my standard has worked out well for me. I know, snob thinking. Another poster claimed that Derick likely knew that Jill was less intelligent and thus would not be able to home school. Me, being the snob that I am disagreed  with that assertion. I think that DD believes that JD is perfectly capable of educating their children. I wish people would follow entire threads before commenting.

A bottom feeder is an individual who lacks common sense and basic logic. A bottom feeder is lazy and lacks self drive. A bottom feeder is a weight that drags another down as opposed to a complimentary partner.

My intellectual standard, which is high, has also worked out very well for me, maybe I'm a snob too, LOL. Using your definition, I don't want bottom feeders in my life in any capacity, let alone as an intimate partner. This type of person is not any type of intellectual at all. I don't suffer fools gladly, so I avoid those without common sense and logic, who are lazy and unmotivated. These type of people frustrate me.

There will always be those who comment before following the entire thread, I have complained before about how this has lead to erroneous conclusions about posts I have made, but this isn't going to change, as frustrating as it may be. It's one of the things I don't like about FJ, folks who jump to conclusions, and don't ask clarifying questions before piling on when it's not a clearly hateful post.

So, as I always say, to each their own. Pick somebody who is smart enough for you, whether or not that is smarter than you, or not, and if the resulting dynamic works for the both of you, cool.

I started this post last night and Mr. SB distracted me with a political discussion.

[nastyhobbitses]

1 hour ago, WiseGirl said:

Preach! I see it all the time in school.  IMO, Helicopter parents are stunting their child's growth, but worse are the, to me, are the ones who don't hold their children to any level of responsibility.  Case in point parent meeting the child admitted they are failing because they didn't do the work. Parent responds by blaming the teacher and calling a meeting with the principal. 

Children need to learn to problem solve in real life (As opposed to Fortnite*sigh*).

I digress.  I also think that I should come up with a summer school program on life skills. Pretty sure I could supplement my income quite well with that.

I've heard the term "lawnmower parent": parents who want to "mow down" any obstacles or adversity their children might face so their path is clear/easy. But of course, the kid is stuck on that one nice freshly mown track of grass, and doesn't know how to do anything else, or anything for themselves.

I wonder if it's part of this "instant"/convenience culture in which we live; by nature children are not "instant" about much. An impatient parent will say/imply "let me do that for you, you're too slow, you don't know how to do it, this is faster because I know how to do it"...and next thing you know your kid can't do jackshit for themselves because you just "mowed" the path for them because that was easier and more convenient. 

My parents absolutely had these tendencies, and what kinda sucked for me as a kid was that they'd helicopter and lawn-mow and then when I fucked up because ultimately they couldn't keep me completely out of trouble and I hadn't learned good studying/time management skills, they suddenly morphed into Tiger Parents and would berate me for fucking up. Did I deserve to get called out for the dumb/lazy shit I did? Oh yes. And I did shape up because I realized that I couldn't do the things I wanted to do with my life if I kept fucking up. But would I have avoided a lot of them had I learned to deal with shit earlier and my parents had just let me solve my own problems? Probably. They did ease up when I got to college, and our relationship has improved a lot because I finally felt like I could be my own person and solve my own problems, but I'm the poster child for why helicopter parenting is a bad idea.