Dillards 70: Their Behavior Is Always Pretty Weird

[Bad Wolf]

Jill did study for and pass the midwifery test. Yes, she didn't follow through, but I think that was due to her mentor losing her license. It wasn't an RN license, but it was more the any of her siblings have done. (Except JD who has pursued his pilot licence.)

[SamiKatz]

12 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

when I read that I had one of those moments of visceral disgust where I wonder what the hell I'm doing here.

I have to admit I did for a few minutes as well.

[treehugger]

I also don't think it's fair to assume Jill isn't bright because she doesn't  write well. I know several people who are intelligent, logical, and smart, just not good writers. My husband used to be a dreadful writer, it improved dramatically after some university English courses, but he is, and always has been a whizz with numbers.  He also has a number of in-demand, high paying skill sets, and is constantly learning new things. But he isn't a writer, never will be. Doesn't mean he's dumb. 

Jill has the curiosity and desire to learn that makes me think she would actually do well in a proper school with real teachers. She might never be very eloquent or relatable, but I'm pretty sure she would do well in school. Especially something practical and hands on.  Just because someone isn't cut out for academia doesn't mean they are stupid.  

[TheOneAndOnly]

16 minutes ago, treehugger said:

I also don't think it's fair to assume Jill isn't bright because she doesn't  write well.

I was never blown away by her video appearances either. She just doesn't seem like college material no matter what medium she uses.

[SapphireSlytherin]

25 minutes ago, treehugger said:

I also don't think it's fair to assume Jill isn't bright because she doesn't  write well.

I don't think anyone here is basing their "Jill isn't bright" assumptions only on her writing. I know I'm not.

And I work with engineers. They are brilliant, brilliant people. Some of them couldn't write a coherent sentence if their life depended on it. lol

That's where MY job comes in.

 

[feministxtian]

1 minute ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

And I work with engineers. They are brilliant, brilliant people. Some of them couldn't write a coherent sentence if their life depended on it. lol

As a general rule, engineers can't write, can't spell and are not great communicators. Want to see an engineer shit his pants? Tell them to put together a power point presentation. Yeah, they'll shit bricks and stress over that more than they stressed over their thermo final. Their reading comprehension skills ain't that great either. 

[nst]

57 minutes ago, treehugger said:

 Just because someone isn't cut out for academia doesn't mean they are stupid.  

amen and preach it to the choir. When I worked for the Professor - she was brilliant as I mentioned in her field which is English Lit, she knew EVERYTHING (how to end a sentence, periods, etc etc)  - where as I have no idea what an adverb is - yet despite all this - we got on like flies on a dog because i was the practical side to her non acedmica side. 

[Maggie Mae]

48 minutes ago, TheOneAndOnly said:

I was never blown away by her video appearances either. She just doesn't seem like college material no matter what medium she uses.

First of all, just because someone doesn't go to college doesn't mean they aren't intelligent. I know plenty of intelligent people who didn't go to college for whatever reason. 

Second, ANYONE can go to college and get a degree. I had an ex CEO for a boss who I doubt could read. Our president went to Wharton and he can barely string a sentence together. College is not the end-all of intelligence, nor does it guarantee good communication skills. 

[treehugger]

Also, in Canada anyways, college and university are two totally different beasts. I think Jill would do just fine in college. It tends to be practical degrees (ie, practical nursing, interior decorating, secretarial, bookkeeping, etc...). University is absolutely more for the academics. Both are good and necessary. I don't know that Jill is university material (or that she would even want to be) but college, absolutely. 

[feministxtian]

16 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

First of all, just because someone doesn't go to college doesn't mean they aren't intelligent. I know plenty of intelligent people who didn't go to college for whatever reason. 

Second, ANYONE can go to college and get a degree. I had an ex CEO for a boss who I doubt could read. Our president went to Wharton and he can barely string a sentence together. College is not the end-all of intelligence, nor does it guarantee good communication skills. 

PREACH!!! Two of the most intelligent people I've ever known didn't have much by way of "education". My grandmother had a 3rd grade education but man...she was so smart. She did the NYT crossword puzzle IN INK. She was knowledgeable in so many areas, politics (she hated Nixon), opera, you name it. My father was a 10th grade drop out. Yet, he was a math whiz. I was struggling to learn long division and he'd stand behind me and say "put a 3, put a 5" I mean he could do this shit in his head (to this day division pretty much requires a calculator for me). 

Intelligence has nothing to do with academic achievement. 

ETA: I'm thought to be relatively intelligent (tested IQ). I don't have jack shit by way of formal education. I'm the proud owner of a high school diploma (with a miserable GPA) and an AAS degree. 

[singsingsing]

Jill does not seem exceptionally unintelligent to me, nor is her writing all that bad. I'm sure she's at least of average intelligence. I met many people at university, even people with master's degrees (in humanities or social sciences, no less) who were far, far worse writers than Jill. Jill probably would have done just fine in either college or university if she was motivated to succeed, had she been given the option.

[Ms. Brightside]

15 minutes ago, treehugger said:

Also, in Canada anyways, college and university are two totally different beasts. I think Jill would do just fine in college. It tends to be practical degrees (ie, practical nursing, interior decorating, secretarial, bookkeeping, etc...). University is absolutely more for the academics. Both are good and necessary. I don't know that Jill is university material (or that she would even want to be) but college, absolutely. 

I'm an American and have always basically used the word "college" do describe higher education that is below grad school.

We may say that someone is going to a community college to differentiate that they are studying for a certificate, or are only doing prerequisites for a 4 year school or a specific programs (like nursing). Generally just "college" without further clarification refers to higher education occurring at a college or university. From what I can gather, here most schools that offer undergraduate programs only are referred to as colleges, while graduate programs are usually part of a university. I wouldn't say Dartmouth College or Harvard College (the undergraduate portion of Harvard University) are low-quality or easy to obtain degrees. 

To further complicate things, some graduate programs refer to their med school as "XYZ College of Medicine."

'Merica. 

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, SamiKatz said:

I think referring to Jill as a bottom feeder is pretty harsh.  First off, she's woefully under educated, none of us know how  intelligent she really is.

Secondly, to me a bottom feeder is someone who does have some sort of intelligence/education and still won't do the right thing.  I'd call Derrick a bottom feeder before Jill.

I know this is a snark site, but hellfire and damnation.  Calling someone a bottom feeder if they do have less than average intelligence is harsh as well.

I was referring to DD knowing that Jill wasn’t very bright, as another member suggested. I did not say that JD was a bottom feeder. I doubt DD thinks that either! 

[Maggie Mae]

5 minutes ago, Ms. Brightside said:

I'm an American and have always basically used the word "college" do describe higher education that is below grad school.

In the US, Post-Secondary Education is usually colloquially referred to as "college." 

 

5 minutes ago, Ms. Brightside said:

I wouldn't say Dartmouth College or Harvard College (the undergraduate portion of Harvard University) are low-quality or easy to obtain degrees. 

Nope, but University of Phoenix only requires payment! And while Harvard, Yale, Stamford all are "elite" colleges, the admissions and retention process can involve some transfer of funds from Papa 1% the Alumni of Wherever to the school.  There's even evidence that the curriculum at some Ivy's isn't any more rigorous than certain public "state" schools, but attending one will get you something much better - the network. It's a completely different world. 

College/University degrees for many employers mean that the applicant has managed to commit to education and long term goals, most jobs require OTJ once hired. My Poly-Sci degree is useless in many aspects - it didn't teach me how how to do anything other than read complex texts and write OK when I try. The Work Study I did in Computer Science taught me more skills that I actually use. 

5 minutes ago, Ms. Brightside said:

To further complicate things, some graduate programs refer to their med school as "XYZ College of Medicine."

'Merica. 

Or the Bob Woodward School of Journalism, or the Famous Dentists school of Dentistry or the Ruth Ginsburg School of Law. (I really hope this exists.) We like to name things after our alumni, or just random people. I think there's even a Gerald R Ford school of something or other. Or maybe it's just a football field. 

[SassyPants]

I apologize for using a word that caused so many to become upset. I did not mean Jill was a bottom feeder, but rather I could not be with a bottom feeder ...and I seriously doubt that DD thinks that JD is anything less than his intellectual equal. Frankly, if he did think such, that would be more a reflection on him!

[Ms. Brightside]

@Maggie Mae I 100% agree with everything you said! It seems like posters from different countries were using phrases like "Jill isn't college material" and others were thinking Jill could easily make it through a college program, and that doesn't take into account the vast differences in post-secondary programs, nor the use of "college" vs "university" in US/non-US contexts. I'm glad we dove into that a bit more. 

Jill seems entirely capable of excelling in many academic settings, and like she would flounder in others. I could say the same for myself and anyone I know, really. It's too tough to judge from afar. 

[Eponine]

1 hour ago, Maggie Mae said:

Second, ANYONE can go to college and get a degree. I had an ex CEO for a boss who I doubt could read. Our president went to Wharton and he can barely string a sentence together. College is not the end-all of intelligence, nor does it guarantee good communication skills. 

FOR REAL! I think it's funny that some seem to assume Derrick is smarter than Jill because he has a university undergrad degree and is going for another. Anybody can get a university degree, especially going to the kinds of schools fundies normally go to (yes his undergrad is a real university). It doesn't mean anything about someone's intelligence.

I work at a real, legitimate university and am constantly amazed at some of the students who manage to get their degrees.

[nausicaa]

20 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Honestly? I don't think he believes Jill is as ignorant as we do. He probably thinks she's super-smart/intelligent/well-educated.

I mean, she's smart enough to realize how brilliant and amazing he is!  (?)

For me, it's more so that Derick comes off as such a narcissist, he wouldn't really care how well-educated his sons are. If anything, I think he'd dislike it if they did well in school and would feel threatened when they began to do high school level math and science that were out of his grasp. Especially if they began to question him and his ridiculous claims of incorrect things (like when he doubled down on the provably incorrect "naturalized uncle" thing). 

Derick reminds me of Steve Maxwell in some ways, with a bit less self-control. 

20 hours ago, Georgiana said:

I honestly don't think Jill Duggar Dillard has or has ever had a malicious bone in her body.  She is often misguided, overly enthusiastic, and a bit much, but she's very much like a golden retriever of a person: she sometimes goes overboard, she's sometimes in the wrong, but underneath everything her motivation is usually a desire to do good as she sees it because she loves people.  

I don't even like Jill, and I agree. She's not a mean person, just a very annoying one. It's a personality type that really grates on me (and clearly several other posters) but I do think it's important to remember she truly is trying to be kind and to help others. She's not a Lori Anderson or a Nicole Naugler. 

[SassyPants]

Here’s how I determine intellect. How well does a person navigate and negociate a very wide variety of situations? How well do they decision make? Can they make a decently balanced and appropriate decision with partial information, or are they stopped in their tracks? When situations are uncomfortable are they easily confused, upset or defeated, or are they calm  and tenacious? IMO, much of intellectual develop is formed by having a wide range of age appropriate experiences, educational opportunities  and responsibilities. In addition, having to answer to other adults besides one’s parents and to have personal, individual, age appropriate responsibilities like homework, projects, a Job are also very important. In this regard, IMO, the 2G Duggars were robbed.

[feministxtian]

Just now, SassyPants said:

Here’s how I determine intellect. How well does a person navigate and negociate a very wide variety of situations? How well do they decision make? Can they make a decently balanced and appropriate decision with partial information, or are they stopped in their tracks? When situations are uncomfortable are they easily confused, upset or defeated, or are they calm  and tenacious? IMO, much of intellectual develop is formed by having a wide range of age appropriate experiences, educational opportunities  and responsibilities. In addition, having to answer to other adults besides one’s parents and to have personal, individual, age appropriate responsibilities like homework, projects, a Job are also very important. In this regard, IMO, the 2G Duggars were robbed.

You are determining intellect based on a kind of biased neurotypical point of view. I disagree. I am happiest in familiar situations, home, work, church. Beyond that I'm screaming that I want to go home, especially when there are large crowds of people. Decision making? Considering I was a mess just trying to pick an apartment, I'd say my decision making skills are probably quite deficient. "partial information"...not me yo, I'll research the shit out of everything before I make a decision (another reason why decision making is HARD for me). I can't stand new situations, my anxiety goes through the roof, my hands shake, I can't cope with it. That doesn't change my innate intellect. You're talking more about emotional/psychological issues rather than innate intelligence. Judging intellect by your standards or by academic achievement is not an accurate way to judge. I've met MDs that didn't know jack shit about jack shit, The orangutang in the white house allegedly has an MBA from Wharton...he's seriously a fucking moron. I've known car mechanics that should have been physicists. I know of someone who has a master's in electrical engineering, a number of patents to his name but he plays in a fairly well known rock band...

By your standards, I'm just above a drooling epsilon minus semi-moron. 

[freealljs]

I don't want to write that Jill can't make it through college.  I think that, given the right upbringing, where she would have been encouraged to pursue higher education, she may have at least tried.  Whether she would have succeeded and finished a program, who knows.

[EmmieJ]

Jill is doing exactly what she was raised to do:  marry young, start popping out babies ASAP (except, due to unforeseen complications and what seem to be quite difficult births, she has had to slow down on that plan and I hope she and Dwreck will take steps to really space out further pregnancies), be a SAHM and homeschool her children, and be an adoring and supportive spouse. 

From what I see from the outside, it appears that she is somewhat more isolated from friends and family than her other married siblings.  (My perception could be totally wrong; maybe she spends as much time with her siblings and friends as she wants).  I do think she is much happier now they are living back in Arkansas, and I do think she is quite proud of Dwreck for being a college graduate, and now a law student.  He will certainly be the most educated of the spouses. 

I think Jill is of average intelligence, but from the very start, any natural curiosity was actively discouraged and punished.  I hope that being away from her parents, being around Dwreck who does see value in a higher education, will cause her to broaden her horizons and ignite her natural curiosity again.  I was not raised fundie like her, but I was raised in a protective cocoon.  It took me awhile to come out of that cocoon and start questioning things (example:  teachings of the Catholic church, another patriarchal system that is full of bull shit, while having some decent core beliefs, like "do unto others").  So I'm giving Jill time to grow on her own. 

[nausicaa]

32 minutes ago, Eponine said:

FOR REAL! I think it's funny that some seem to assume Derrick is smarter than Jill because he has a university undergrad degree and is going for another. Anybody can get a university degree, especially going to the kinds of schools fundies normally go to (yes his undergrad is a real university). It doesn't mean anything about someone's intelligence.

I work at a real, legitimate university and am constantly amazed at some of the students who manage to get their degrees.

I don't think a university degree is the end all be all of intelligence (and I don't think Derick Dillard is all that smart while I don't believe Jill is super dumb either). However, I do think there is a dynamic at play in their marriage where Derick enjoys being more worldly and educated and having his wife look up to him as some polymath Jeffersonian prodigy. While we know he is a total dipshit, the fact of the matter is, he does have far more life experience and exposure to formal education than Jill. It's uncomfortably clear to me that he likes it that way. 

I'd guess Jill is probably average in terms of raw intelligence (as difficult as that is to measure). Like others have said, she is a people-pleaser who would have done great in K-8 school at least. I do think she is the type of person to struggle with creative thinking and strong critical reasoning. If she'd been born to different parents, I really think a bachelors in early childhood education, psychology, or maybe even nursing wouldn't have been out of her grasp at all. I know several women like her with those degrees.

Unfortunately her parents discouraged any critical reasoning, expansion of horizons, or creative development. As it stands today, I imagine a conversation with her about religion, civil rights, or separation of church and state involves lots of circular logic (it's in the Bible so it's true and everything in the Bible is true because it's in the Bible).

[Maggie Mae]

20 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Here’s how I determine intellect. How well does a person navigate and negociate a very wide variety of situations? How well do they decision make? Can they make a decently balanced and appropriate decision with partial information, or are they stopped in their tracks? When situations are uncomfortable are they easily confused, upset or defeated, or are they calm  and tenacious? 

I think you are confusing emotional intelligence with overall intelligence. 

 

 

[apandaaries]

35 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

The orangutang in the white house allegedly has an MBA from Wharton...he's seriously a fucking moron.

Just to clarify: he tries to pass it off as an MBA from Wharton, but that fool got an economics degree (Bachelor of Science) from the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. That idiot did not go to grad school there. He lacks an MBA, but he certainly doesn't mind if everyone else thinks he’s got one!  Yet another example of his complete inability to present himself or speak truthfully.