Dillards 70: Their Behavior Is Always Pretty Weird

[Gobsmacked]

1 hour ago, Lurky said:

100% this.  And we know she DID want to go to university, as she wanted to be both a nurse and a midwife. 

But let's occam's razor this relationship.  Derick specifically wanted a submissive uneducated wife who would let him be the headship - is it REALLY likely Jill rules the roost, and insists on being around poor Derek when he doesn't want her there, or that Derek is the one wanting her around?   For all we know, Jill could still want to do courses, have hobbies, have friends, and Derick is the one stopping her, while he gets to explore the world in different ways.

I've always felt for Jill - she worked so, so hard to be the perfect golden child, and all that happened is that she never had a "best friend" sibling.  The other older ones all do (or did, until the Fall of Josh), but Jill only has her adopted sibling-kids, where they could never be peers, as she was parenting them.  I feel for the Duggar who wanted to get educated and have a career, but was denied that (in the same way that I feel for Jessa being presented as a "bitchy" Duggar just because she wouldn't buckle down and Keep Sweet.  I applaud her for her small rebellions).

In any other relationship, I would be hoping that once the kids are older, and Derick has finished his law degree, Jill could get some kind of education, as she seems pretty passionate about it, whether it's by proxy through her husband, or through her Bible study.  But these are the Dillards - once Derick finishes this course, he'll start a theology degree, or an MBA or another Masters, and then another one, and then a PhD etc etc, and Jill will always come second.

I agree. Dwreck appears to be the eternal student/ wanna be hippy/nomad type of guy. Jill's frights at falling shower curtains put an end to that. Only after they married did Drwreck realise that Jill wasn't the wandering missionary-type he thought she was going to be. If they had been sensible and used birth  control, their time in Central America may have worked out. Sadly,  Jill hasn't had easy births which can't have helped Dwrecks dreams. If she has been luckier in that respect the baby would have been strapped to her back and off they would have plodded on a new adventure.  They must both be disappointed at the way things have turned out. 

Dwreck doesn't have to be such a mealy mouthed bigoted dick though. He really hid that side of his character well. ( or did he? J-B is very much the same so........, he was always going to be in the running for SIL). Takes one to know one as the old saying goes. 

 

[Mlissmartin]

7 hours ago, Lurky said:

Yes, yes, this too.  I've said this before, but Jill's social media looks weird in comparison to other young women her age, but she wasn't allowed to learn social media as a teen, like her peers did - and hers is all a) expected to be an example of a Godly lifestyle, or even a Mission, and b) very, very public.  So while she's 27, she's only been allowed social media since she got engaged 4 years ago - so it's more like a social media age of 18.

And her education was so terrible.  Completing workbooks means she has probably never had to do an essay until her Bible study in the last few years, and I'd bet the nearest to trying to come up with persuasive arguments is finding Bible verses to back up what is a pre-approved point of view.  I feel so strongly for these kids, and worse, for the younger kids and the next generation, who had to rely on them for their own education.  At least Jill seems to value education, so I think she'll make an effort with her own sons - it's just she's been so hamstrung by her parents, she might not even see where her own education was deficient.  Here's to Derick deciding to send the boys to school, and Jill getting the chance to learn more, through helping them with their homework, if she'll never get to do formal education herself.

Their kids will be sent to school? Confirmed?

7 hours ago, acheronbeach said:

Except that her siblings passed through exactly the same educational program as her, and seem able to articulate their feelings and thoughts in a much more complex way than Jill.  

Frankly, I think Jill's writing reflects who Jill is.  We've never seen her - either on the show or on her social media - being nuanced in any way.  Her behaviour is that of a very black and white thinker; toe the line, you Get to Meet Prince Charming.  Tattle on your siblings, become the very best child.  

Life doesn't work that way.  But unlike her sisters, who now seem more able reflect upon what makes something good, or why they feel a certain way, Jill just doubles down on the bald hyperbole - BEST husband!  FAVORITE book!  SPECTACULAR boiled veg!  

What exactly did she "tattle" about besides her disgusting oldest brothers doings which very well needed to be brought to light.

[acheronbeach]

52 minutes ago, Mlissmartin said:

What exactly did she "tattle" about besides her disgusting oldest brothers doings which very well needed to be brought to light.

What are you on about? Josh wasn't the only one who said she was a tattle.  The other older kids on 14-19KAC talked about how they'd threaten each other to tell Jill because hey knew she'd run to their parents.  Michelle and JB also talked about how compliant and obedient and honest she was with them compared to the other kids.

[Lurky]

2 hours ago, acheronbeach said:

The other older kids on 14-19KAC talked about how they'd threaten each other to tell Jill because hey knew she'd run to their parents.

So she's the tell-tale because the other kids would threaten to tell on each other to her, so she'd feel she'd have to tell her parents?  It might not reflect well on Jill (except, you know, they'd all grown up with corporal punishment, and being told it was their duty to tell their parents everything) but it reflects even worse on the other kids, who wanted it both ways - to get their other siblings into trouble, without being seen to be the one to tell.

ETA I absolutely can't blame any of the Duggars 2nd Gen if they were telling tales on each other.  It's not a moral failing in their context, where their father is also their spiritual leader, next to Jesus in importance, and they've had the combinations of being beaten with plumbing line, sent to JTTH, and being brought up on Gothard ideas - as well as the older daughters having to raise their siblings, as substitute parents, but without the power or a good example of how to discipline. 

ETA 2 No one blames eg Jana for the jewellery box incident, which included telling tales on Jessa, but Jill is sometimes treated like she deserves everything she gets, because she was a 'tattler", aka tried to live up to her parents' impossible standards - AND is apparently the one who told about Josh's abuse. 

3 hours ago, Mlissmartin said:

Their kids will be sent to school? Confirmed?

Not at all.  I was using "Here's to..." in the meaning of "I hope that..." - as in a toast, "here's to a long life for the happy couple" etc etc

[HarleyQuinn]

Regardless of if Jill is helping him or not (maybe she made him flashcards; "Murder" / "Jail time!") It's still a laughably bad instagram post complete with awkward hashtags. 

[Mlissmartin]

10 hours ago, acheronbeach said:

What are you on about? Josh wasn't the only one who said she was a tattle.  The other older kids on 14-19KAC talked about how they'd threaten each other to tell Jill because hey knew she'd run to their parents.  Michelle and JB also talked about how compliant and obedient and honest she was with them compared to the other kids.

What do you mean what am I "on" about...I'd never heard other examples. Chillax.

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Regardless of if Jill is helping him or not (maybe she made him flashcards; "Murder" / "Jail time!") It's still a laughably bad instagram post complete with awkward hashtags. 

Jill: Derick the word is M-U-R-D-E-R...same R ending sound as PERPENDICULAR. I learned all about the R sound from by momma. See, I told you the SOTDRT taught me "real good." LOL

[VelociRapture]

10 hours ago, Lurky said:

So she's the tell-tale because the other kids would threaten to tell on each other to her, so she'd feel she'd have to tell her parents?  It might not reflect well on Jill (except, you know, they'd all grown up with corporal punishment, and being told it was their duty to tell their parents everything) but it reflects even worse on the other kids, who wanted it both ways - to get their other siblings into trouble, without being seen to be the one to tell.

ETA I absolutely can't blame any of the Duggars 2nd Gen if they were telling tales on each other.  It's not a moral failing in their context, where their father is also their spiritual leader, next to Jesus in importance, and they've had the combinations of being beaten with plumbing line, sent to JTTH, and being brought up on Gothard ideas - as well as the older daughters having to raise their siblings, as substitute parents, but without the power or a good example of how to discipline. 

ETA 2 No one blames eg Jana for the jewellery box incident, which included telling tales on Jessa, but Jill is sometimes treated like she deserves everything she gets, because she was a 'tattler", aka tried to live up to her parents' impossible standards - AND is apparently the one who told about Josh's abuse. 

Not at all.  I was using "Here's to..." in the meaning of "I hope that..." - as in a toast, "here's to a long life for the happy couple" etc etc

I just want to clarify briefly that we don’t know whether Jill actually told her parents about Josh or not. Here’s what the Washington County report stated:

- Josh confessed to his father in March of 2002 that he had been touching some of his sisters while they slept. The parents informed the girls (by their own admissions this was Jill and Jessa) and the daughter we believe is Jill (based off the other police reports) said she remembered Josh removing her blanket, but nothing else. 

- In July 2002, Josh admitted to touching the family friend as she slept. They decided to discipline him somehow at this point (which they should have fucking done - properly and legally - after he molested two of his sisters, but whatever.)

- In March 2003, Josh touched his sister (Joy) while reading her a story. It’s not clear who told on him, but the way the report is written makes me believe it was Josh who told on himself again. Based off the report for Jana, it appears that all the children from a certain age up (I’d guess that Jessa would have been present at the dinner. Possibly Jinger too) had gone out to dinner with their grandparents and parents when the story session incident occurred... meaning, Michelle and JimBob somehow thought it was a brilliant idea to leave their son with a history of assaulting their daughters at home with some of their other kids. 

Josh and the others have stated multiple times that Jill was a tattle tale, but like you I can’t exactly blame her for it - especially if her siblings took advantage of that to avoid having to be the snitch. I can’t blame the siblings much either since I assume they were all doing what they had to, but that’s an asshole move if the siblings really did purposely use Jill to rat each other out only to turn around and hold it against her later.

[acheronbeach]

12 hours ago, Lurky said:

So she's the tell-tale because the other kids would threaten to tell on each other to her, so she'd feel she'd have to tell her parents?  It might not reflect well on Jill (except, you know, they'd all grown up with corporal punishment, and being told it was their duty to tell their parents everything) but it reflects even worse on the other kids, who wanted it both ways - to get their other siblings into trouble, without being seen to be the one to tell.

ETA I absolutely can't blame any of the Duggars 2nd Gen if they were telling tales on each other.  It's not a moral failing in their context, where their father is also their spiritual leader, next to Jesus in importance, and they've had the combinations of being beaten with plumbing line, sent to JTTH, and being brought up on Gothard ideas - as well as the older daughters having to raise their siblings, as substitute parents, but without the power or a good example of how to discipline. 

ETA 2 No one blames eg Jana for the jewellery box incident, which included telling tales on Jessa, but Jill is sometimes treated like she deserves everything she gets, because she was a 'tattler", aka tried to live up to her parents' impossible standards - AND is apparently the one who told about Josh's abuse. 

I don't think using it as an example of her tendency to have more black and white/good or bad type of thinking is blaming her or saying that her siblings are somehow better because they used that tendency as a weapon against one another.  It - like the other examples I gave - were evidence of a personality trait which hasn't lent itself well to social media, IMO.  

[Dandruff]

20 hours ago, Mlissmartin said:

Their kids will be sent to school? Confirmed?

I expect their kids will be sent to school, but I'm not aware of any confirmation.  While I don't give Derick credit for much, I suspect he is aware of the kind of education they'd get at the J. Muffin Homeskool, and that it might not be the best approach toward the boys attending his alma mater.  I think he wants at least one of them to become Pistol Pete. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

4 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

I expect their kids will be sent to school, but I'm not aware of any confirmation.  While I don't give Derick credit for much, I suspect he is aware of the kind of education they'd get at the J. Muffin Homeskool, and that it might not be the best approach toward the boys attending his alma mater.  I think he wants at least one of them to become Pistol Pete. 

Honestly? I don't think he believes Jill is as ignorant as we do. He probably thinks she's super-smart/intelligent/well-educated.

[singsingsing]

I’m pretty sure they’ve said they plan to homeschool.

[HarleyQuinn]

Okay these photos Jill is sharing to promote that clothing company are so bad. How hard is it to look presentable and fake a nice IG photo? She fakes having #besthubbyever enough.

[Georgiana]

I honestly don't think Jill Duggar Dillard has or has ever had a malicious bone in her body.  She is often misguided, overly enthusiastic, and a bit much, but she's very much like a golden retriever of a person: she sometimes goes overboard, she's sometimes in the wrong, but underneath everything her motivation is usually a desire to do good as she sees it because she loves people.  

I do think this made her a tattletale.  NOT because she was trying to get her siblings in trouble, but because she clearly IDOLIZES her parents and thinks they can do no wrong, so she wants them to know everything so that they can respond.  She truly sees them as this perfect, beneficent force that can always be trusted to do the right thing, even when it means a punishment.  Then there's that whole Bible verse about sin in darkness vs light or whatever.  Bottom line is: Jill was raised to believe that telling her parents EVERYTHING was the right thing to do AND that it would ultimately help her siblings.  I think she would run to JB and Michelle because she genuinely believed that was the best thing she could do to help the people she loved. 

Unfortunately, from a sibling perspective, this meant her siblings very rightfully came to believe she could not be trusted to keep things in confidence.  That is likely why she doesn't seem as close to many of her siblings as they otherwise do to each other, and may be why she seemed to not have many close friends outside the family.  Trust is a major part of any relationship.   

It's all just kind of a sad mess.  All the kids were just doing the best they could and reacting to the challenges of being in that home.  I don't blame Jill for being who she became, but it's just as natural for kids (and especially young adults) in that situation to resent someone who can be counted on to make public anything they know.  Privacy was likely a precious commodity in the Duggar household that many of the kids fiercely coveted.  

[SassyPants]

44 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

I expect their kids will be sent to school, but I'm not aware of any confirmation.  While I don't give Derick credit for much, I suspect he is aware of the kind of education they'd get at the J. Muffin Homeskool, and that it might not be the best approach toward the boys attending his alma mater.  I think he wants at least one of them to become Pistol Pete. 

IDK, I don't think a young, educated man, a man currently pursuing a JD, would be actively satisfied with or would admit to having an intellectual bottom feeder for a wife. Maybe it's just me, but I'd have a hard time being attracted and happily married to a bottom feeder. Maybe I'm shallow, but partnering and parenting with a person like that would drive me bonkers...DD doesn't seem to be the most patient, considerate soul around. 

[AtlanticTug]

Jill is the sort of girl who would have been teacher's pet in school. Her entire personality is centred on being eager to please while at the same time requiring an enormous amount of positive reinforcement. Had she been allowed to go to school, she probably would have worked very hard, which she'd have to, because I don't think for a second that she is naturally gifted/bright. But she would have taken great pride in being the kid to get a perfect grade accompanied by 10 fuzzy stickers from the teacher. I think she would have also done well as a nurse if she had a good, more senior mentor who put a lot of effort in her. I personally do not work with or hire junior lawyers with her personality because I simply do not have the time it takes to invest in praising them and ensuring that everyone on the team deals with them in a very white gloves sort of way. I could totally figure her out from a mile away, but having said that it doesn't make for an inherently bad employee at all. She just needs to be surrounded by the right people to flourish. She's floundering because Derrick is all wrong for her and because the one person who seems to have "gotten" her (Daddy) is no longer her headship. Her best hope at this point, aside from leaving Derrick, is that as her children grow older, they will love/worship her to the point where she gets her meaning from those relationships and she gains confidence in herself again. It's questionable whether that will happen given their parenting style.

[Georgiana]

8 minutes ago, AtlanticTug said:

Jill is the sort of girl who would have been teacher's pet in school. Her entire personality is centred on being eager to please while at the same time requiring an enormous amount of positive reinforcement. Had she been allowed to go to school, she probably would have worked very hard, which she'd have to, because I don't think for a second that she is naturally gifted/bright. But she would have taken great pride in being the kid to get a perfect grade accompanied by 10 fuzzy stickers from the teacher. I think she would have also done well as a nurse if she had a good, more senior mentor who put a lot of effort in her. I personally do not work with or hire junior lawyers with her personality because I simply do not have the time it takes to invest in praising them and ensuring that everyone on the team deals with them in a very white gloves sort of way. I could totally figure her out from a mile away, but having said that it doesn't make for an inherently bad employee at all. She just needs to be surrounded by the right people to flourish. She's floundering because Derrick is all wrong for her and because the one person who seems to have "gotten" her (Daddy) is no longer her headship. Her best hope at this point, aside from leaving Derrick, is that as her children grow older, they will love/worship her to the point where she gets her meaning from those relationships and she gains confidence in herself again. It's questionable whether that will happen given their parenting style.

Unfortunately, it's this that makes me worry that Jill Dillard will become Jill Rodrigues 2.0.  I think JRod has many of these same needs for praise, attention, accolades, etc. and CERTAINLY needs to be dealt with with kid gloves.  I think that David Rodrigues, like Derick, does not tend to provide the sort of praise his wife needs to flourish.  So JRod trained her kids to worship her and give her that attention she needs.

The problem is, using children to take on the burden of fulfilling adult emotional needs is deeply unhealthy and often emotionally damaging/abusive.  Jill's emotional health is NOT Izzy and Sam's burden, and it never should be.  Jill is an adult, stunted though she may be, and it is HER responsibility to see that her emotional needs are met by other adults...not her children.  And while the love an adoration of children can be a wonderful compliment to adult emotional fulfillment, it cannot truly take the same place nor be counted on the same way in times of trouble.  

I don't want to see Izzy or Sam without $10 to their name to buy books/food, but spending $40 to send their precious mama flowers and trinkets.  It's truly sad the way JRod uses her kids to fulfill her emotional need for praise, and it's heartbreaking the way the Rod kids believe that Mama's happiness is THEIR responsibility.  

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Okay these photos Jill is sharing to promote that clothing company are so bad. How hard is it to look presentable and fake a nice IG photo? She fakes having #besthubbyever enough.

To be fair her latest post for that gives credit to Izzy for the photos. Not gonna lie, I think that’s kind of adorable. And at least she knows to add a hashtag about being a partner for the brand unlike some others we discuss here (looking at you Josie and Kelton Balka. You too Alyssa Webster, even if you did recently figure it out.)

[MsSaylor]

Interesting points to think about the parallels between Jill D and JRod @singsingsing. I can definitely see some of those dynamics developing with the Dillards. I dont think it will be as bad/extreme though. I dont see Jill D as having...the innate narcissism that drives JRod. Few people do.  

[HarleyQuinn]

I always had the feeling the Dulls would go the Naugler route before the JRod one.

[nst]

3 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Okay these photos Jill is sharing to promote that clothing company are so bad. How hard is it to look presentable and fake a nice IG photo? She fakes having #besthubbyever enough.

put some shoes on and don't pose in front of a headboard. i mean come on. 

 

[SamiKatz]

17 hours ago, SassyPants said:

IDK, I don't think a young, educated man, a man currently pursuing a JD, would be actively satisfied with or would admit to having an intellectual bottom feeder for a wife. Maybe it's just me, but I'd have a hard time being attracted and happily married to a bottom feeder. Maybe I'm shallow, but partnering and parenting with a person like that would drive me bonkers...DD doesn't seem to be the most patient, considerate soul around. 

I think referring to Jill as a bottom feeder is pretty harsh.  First off, she's woefully under educated, none of us know how  intelligent she really is.

Secondly, to me a bottom feeder is someone who does have some sort of intelligence/education and still won't do the right thing.  I'd call Derrick a bottom feeder before Jill.

I know this is a snark site, but hellfire and damnation.  Calling someone a bottom feeder if they do have less than average intelligence is harsh as well.

[Eponine]

16 hours ago, SassyPants said:

IDK, I don't think a young, educated man, a man currently pursuing a JD, would be actively satisfied with or would admit to having an intellectual bottom feeder for a wife. Maybe it's just me, but I'd have a hard time being attracted and happily married to a bottom feeder. Maybe I'm shallow, but partnering and parenting with a person like that would drive me bonkers...DD doesn't seem to be the most patient, considerate soul around. 

Yes Derrick has/will have multiple degrees, but let's not overlook the fact that he's no intellectual giant himself. Also, he seems to be pretty focused on himself, so as long as Jill is continuing to adore and support him I seriously doubt he'll have a problem with her intellectual capabilities. I have a hard time believing he gives one flying fuck about her mind when she feeds his ego so well.

Not blaming her for that as it's what she's been trained to do. Their marriage is a perfect example of what happens in their fundie culture: the ignorant, eager to please wife supports her husband no matter what he decides to do with their family. She's a cheerleader for him, and he likely was never prepared to see her as an intellectual equal anyway.

[LittleOwl]

I think @Georgiana has hit the nail on the head. Jill is a golden retriever! All I can think of now is Dug the dog from Up!..... 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

49 minutes ago, SamiKatz said:

Calling someone a bottom feeder if they do have less than average intelligence is harsh as well.

I couldn't comment on it so thank you for saying this.

when I read that I had one of those moments of visceral disgust where I wonder what the hell I'm doing here.