Dillards 70: Their Behavior Is Always Pretty Weird

[CorruptionInc.]

3 hours ago, treehugger said:

I also don't think it's fair to assume Jill isn't bright because she doesn't  write well. I know several people who are intelligent, logical, and smart, just not good writers.

I don't write well at all. I'm also not logical. I always think laterally.

I put it down to there are so many different ways of being smart. I have a high IQ (tested because of ASD) but most of the time I seem like a complete chatty mess. I still dress like an 80's teen to a certain extent...

I have no doubt that Jill IS smart; maybe not in your "traditional" way; I have a friend who is similar to her - she is smart with money and investing; and able to keep calm all the time. 

[FundieCentral]

I thought Trump transferred to Penn from Fordham after his dad made a donation or something? I somehow remember him not actually getting his full degree from Penn. 

[apandaaries]

The Atlantic says it was U Penn, from the Wharton School: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/560309/

He transferred from Forham to U Penn: https://www.chronicle.com/article/Trump-The-College-Years/237013

For those outside of the US, our states typically have three rungs of education: top is the university of that state (like UCLA and the other UCs), state schools (here in CA, those are the California State Universities, like Cal State Los Angeles), and the community/junior colleges (like Los Angeles Community College). The top tier educate to the top degrees—PhDs, MDs, JDs, etc. The state schools generally end with a masters program. The community colleges give associates degrees and allow students to transfer to four year schools, though some have partnered with distance learning colleges and have BA/BS programs available. 

All this to say that Dumpster has a four year degree (BS — bachelor of science, not bullshit, which is what they should have awarded him) from an Ivy (likely thanks to daddy), and no post graduate education. 

ETA: And the Ivy he graduated from has its own inferiority complex, selling items with labels like "Not Penn State," to differentiate itself as the University of Pennsylvania, not the state school. State schools can be awesome choices, but there's lots of competition, jealousy, and ambition involved in these educational circles, and a number of Universities of Various States look down up Various State Universities. 

Spoiler

(Personal example: I had a friend at University of Michigan who was aghast that I initially mistook it for Michigan State. LOTS of ego involved in these arenas.)

 

[Kailash]

I agree with @EmmieJ. Some people are slower to “emerge”, for want of a better word. Jill, as a people pleaser, puts her own feelings last. I hope that as she ages she will start realizing her worth, and decide to invest some time in herself. Jessa “found” herself quickly after marriage and motherhood. Jinger is still finding herself, imo. Jill will take the longest of the three. 

[Nodaknorskie]

1 hour ago, Ms. Brightside said:

@Maggie Mae I 100% agree with everything you said! It seems like posters from different countries were using phrases like "Jill isn't college material" and others were thinking Jill could easily make it through a college program, and that doesn't take into account the vast differences in post-secondary programs, nor the use of "college" vs "university" in US/non-US contexts. I'm glad we dove into that a bit more. 

Jill seems entirely capable of excelling in many academic settings, and like she would flounder in others. I could say the same for myself and anyone I know, really. It's too tough to judge from afar. 

In the United States the difference between colleges and universities is simple.  Universities offer more pody grad and doctoral progrsms than a college.  I initially taught at a college which earned their title as a university.  There is a process that a school had to go through to earn this title.  It doesn't mesn a college is less than a university in terms of quality.  Some colleges have very elite progrsms they just happen to have less than a universi4tu.

[singsingsing]

Imagine growing up in an environment like the Duggar household. How many of them suppressed their intellects because they wanted to be accepted and praised? Because they wanted to seem humble, meek, and sweet? I'm not saying they're all secretly geniuses. But I do think some of them have purposely dumbed themselves down, and I think Jill is one of them.

[justoneoftwo]

I've never heard of a state school that didn't offer PhD programs...

 

[fundiefan]

2 hours ago, nausicaa said:

I don't even like Jill, and I agree. She's not a mean person, just a very annoying one. It's a personality type that really grates on me (and clearly several other posters) but I do think it's important to remember she truly is trying to be kind and to help others. She's not a Lori Anderson or a Nicole Naugler. 

I dislike Jill, and all the Duggars, on many levels and for many reasons. But, when it comes to the 19 offspring, they are woefully uneducated and inexperienced. They have very few social experiences with the real world so they probably don't really know how to communicate well and especially don't have a lot of experience, thus skill, in social nuances, etc. 

I doubt any of them lacks intelligence in general(except Josh; he has been a f*ck up from the beginning, as we've seen; he's been a typical coddled oldest boy in a fundie family). What they lack is emotional intelligence, so they don't come off in the best light to people outside their controlled sphere. They are inexperienced in social interaction, consequences and awareness that comes from interacting with people. Sure, they have a lot of contacts & friends within their circles, but little to no experience outside them. Look at Josh. He went from Daddy's car lot to FRC on Duggar reputation alone. He didn't have to earn that position or work for it or work up to it. He didn't have to learn anything, academically or socially, in order to get that job. He didn't have to interact with anyone outside the narrow world he was raised in. Derick and Jill took of for Central America shortly after their marriage, supposedly as "missionaries". But, it was really just more schlepping for some of their inner circle and they stayed within that circle even while in a foreign country. They learned next to nothing from their time there; they didn't immerse in the culture or interact with anyone outside the setting created by the mission-cation organization they were with. 

That's a lot of rambling. But, I think they are probably all perfectly intelligent people. They just have no education, experience or ways to develop as the average person. 

[mpheels]

11 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

I've never heard of a state school that didn't offer PhD programs...

 

There are several schools in the North Carolina public university system that are bachelors/masters only. 

[feministxtian]

The Duggar kids have an inadequate education and they live in a world where intelligence and achievement is not prized. They're no different than other brainwashed victims of a cult. They've never had a time where their worldview was challenged, where they were drawn into a discussion where they could not say "because Jesus" and get away with it. 

I'd say most, if not all of the kids could have thrived in an environment where they were stretched and prodded a bit and encouraged to, well, flaunt their intellect and achieve something. Any dream they had of higher education was quashed by JB & M in accordance with their cult leader who bragged that the kids would get great jobs because of their shining eyes and character. Umm...nope...gotta have some sort of education to go along with it. The boys have all been steered into some sort of manual labor, working for daddy and the girls have all been told that their only job was to be a sweet, submissive helpmeet to some Y chromosome carrier. 

They've lived in a little bubble and show no signs of wanting to go beyond that. We'll see what happens in 5-10 years. 

[louisa05]

1 hour ago, apandaaries said:

The Atlantic says it was U Penn, from the Wharton School: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/560309/

He transferred from Forham to U Penn: https://www.chronicle.com/article/Trump-The-College-Years/237013

For those outside of the US, our states typically have three rungs of education: top is the university of that state (like UCLA and the other UCs), state schools (here in CA, those are the California State Universities, like Cal State Los Angeles), and the community/junior colleges (like Los Angeles Community College). The top tier educate to the top degrees—PhDs, MDs, JDs, etc. The state schools generally end with a masters program. The community colleges give associates degrees and allow students to transfer to four year schools, though some have partnered with distance learning colleges and have BA/BS programs available. 

All this to say that Dumpster has a four year degree (BS — bachelor of science, not bullshit, which is what they should have awarded him) from an Ivy (likely thanks to daddy), and no post graduate education. 

ETA: And the Ivy he graduated from has its own inferiority complex, selling items with labels like "Not Penn State," to differentiate itself as the University of Pennsylvania, not the state school. State schools can be awesome choices, but there's lots of competition, jealousy, and ambition involved in these educational circles, and a number of Universities of Various States look down up Various State Universities. 

  Hide contents

(Personal example: I had a friend at University of Michigan who was aghast that I initially mistook it for Michigan State. LOTS of ego involved in these arenas.)

 

Many state schools are just called "the Univesity of _____________" and are still public, state-funded universities. And it is completely inaccurate that state schools do not have Ph.D, J.D. and other post Master's programs. Most of the large state funded public research universities do have doctoral programs and often also have law schools and medical schools. 

The University of Michigan is a public, state-funded university. So is Michigan State University. The reaction you experienced likely had a lot to do with sports rivalry and nothing at all to do with status or funding. 

[apandaaries]

1 hour ago, justoneoftwo said:

I've never heard of a state school that didn't offer PhD programs...

 

I don’t think any of the Cal States do. Most have terminal masters programs. A number of people go onto PhD programs from there, but they have to apply and transfer to other schools and do more coursework there, along with their dissertations.

ETA: This is the latest post I can edit, but I did want to clarify that the tier system has to do with public universities.  We also have private universities of wildly varying quality.  Harvard is private, but so is University of Phoenix.  Both award degrees, but each elicits a very different reaction from a potential employer/transfer school. 

Wasn't sure if that was a possible cause for confusion or not, but as always, we here in the USA have lots of options, from the very best to the absolute worst.

[feministxtian]

2 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

Many state schools are just called "the Univesity of _____________" and are still public, state-funded universities. And it is completely inaccurate that state schools do not have Ph.D, J.D. and other post Master's programs. Most of the large state funded public research universities do have doctoral programs and often also have law schools and medical schools. 

The University of Michigan is a public, state-funded university. So is Michigan State University. The reaction you experienced likely had a lot to do with sports rivalry and nothing at all to do with status or funding. 

I can't say much about Nevada but Virginia has a shit ton of public colleges/universities. The College of William & Mary has graduate programs. Virginia Commonwealth, University of Virginia and Virginia Tech have grad programs. So do Christopher Newport, James Madison, Washington & Lee...etc etc etc. I went to 2 year school that was part of the Community College system and most, if not all the state 4+ year schools had 2+2 agreements with the CC system. My stepdaughter J's RN was through the community college system. She's, I believe, working on a BSN now, distance learning through VaTech. There's also quite a few HBCs there (historically black colleges). The largest is Hampton University (formerly Hampton Institute). 

[apandaaries]

31 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

Many state schools are just called "the Univesity of _____________" and are still public, state-funded universities. And it is completely inaccurate that state schools do not have Ph.D, J.D. and other post Master's programs. Most of the large state funded public research universities do have doctoral programs and often also have law schools and medical schools. 

The University of Michigan is a public, state-funded university. So is Michigan State University. The reaction you experienced likely had a lot to do with sports rivalry and nothing at all to do with status or funding. 

You are 100% wrong about the bolded. I was with a very academically competitive person, and the schools have very different reputations in certain circles.

Also, I never said any of them weren't public, state-funded universities. I may be speaking for more populated regions, but Penn, Michigan, NY, CA, CO, TX, and many other states have a tiered system.  Even Iowa has Iowa State v University of Iowa. I also don't know of many state schools able to offer such an array of post-graduate work as you've described, but I'm always welcome to learning more. 

[CorruptionInc.]

16 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

I'd say most, if not all of the kids could have thrived in an environment where they were stretched and prodded a bit and encouraged to, well, flaunt their intellect and achieve something.

I definitely think in a non-fundie environment Jana, JD, Jill & Jessa would've been go getters. 
 

[Maggie Mae]

1 minute ago, louisa05 said:

The University of Michigan is a public, state-funded university. So is Michigan State University. The reaction you experienced likely had a lot to do with sports rivalry and nothing at all to do with status or funding. 

University of Michigan is also considered a "public ivy," where as MSU is not. There's the rivalry, but U of M is the harder school to get into, and supposedly has a stronger alumni program . (And at least in 2000, they still used "children of alumni" in their admissions process. MSU does not.) 

[justoneoftwo]

5 minutes ago, apandaaries said:

I don’t think any of the Cal States do. Most have terminal masters programs. A number of people go onto PhD programs from there, but they have to apply and transfer to other schools and do more coursework there, along with their dissertations.

Berkeley certainly does, but that's just off the top of my head.  My parents were both professors and almost always worked at state university's with PhD programs. They moved states often too

[apandaaries]

51 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

Berkeley certainly does, but that's just off the top of my head.  My parents were both professors and almost always worked at state university's with PhD programs. They moved states often too

Berkeley is a UC -- University of California at Berkeley. It's not a CSU -- California State University -- despite the fact that it's often referred to as  "Cal." 

[SapphireSlytherin]

The public University (yes, University) I went to didn't offer doctoral degrees until about five years after I was there. Their first doctoral was and Ed.D. When I was there, they expanded the science department to accommodate human cadaver morgues, etc., but the D.O. program didn't launch until many years later. So much later that the facility was obsolete so they built a new one. lol

[Maggie Mae]

2 hours ago, apandaaries said:

For those outside of the US, our states typically have three rungs of education. 

Some states have tribal colleges as well, which confuse me, but also have different funding sources. Ilisagvik college in Utqiagvik (Barrow) offers free tuition to any Alaska Native, however, their programs are limited to 2 year degrees - so accounting, trades, with few "academic" type careers. I don't know about other colleges, but I guess there's around 40 nationwide. 

[apandaaries]

1 minute ago, Maggie Mae said:

Some states have tribal colleges as well, which confuse me, but also have different funding sources. Ilisagvik college in Utqiagvik (Barrow) offers free tuition to any Alaska Native, however, their programs are limited to 2 year degrees - so accounting, trades, with few "academic" type careers. I don't know about other colleges, but I guess there's around 40 nationwide. 

Did not know this! That's awesome. 

[TheWayTheWorldWorks]

MSU, UofM, Wayne State Univ, Grand Valley Univ, Central Michigan Univ, Mich Tech Univ... all have many varied PhD programs. I'm not checking every public university in Michigan but all of those I did verify. 

Yes, UofM is the hardest public university to get into in Michigan. That said, MSU is also nationally known (pre-Nasser bullshit). It is more fair to say that in the public higher ed system, you have top tier "public ivy", major state univ that are nationally known, smaller influence state univ, state colleges and state community colleges. Qualifications to make this statement: degreed higher ed professional in MI for 20+ years.

 

Edit: also tribal 2 year colleges

[apandaaries]

4 minutes ago, TheWayTheWorldWorks said:

MSU, UofM, Wayne State Univ, Grand Valley Univ, Central Michigan Univ, Mich Tech Univ... all have many varied PhD programs. I'm not checking every public university in Michigan but all of those I did verify. 

I stand corrected: State Universities can and do offer more post-grad work beyond a terminal masters...in some cases.  They don't all offer every flavor of advanced post-grad courses that Universities of Various States offer, but things seem to be improving there.

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, feministxtian said:

The Duggar kids have an inadequate education and they live in a world where intelligence and achievement is not prized. They're no different than other brainwashed victims of a cult. They've never had a time where their worldview was challenged, where they were drawn into a discussion where they could not say "because Jesus" and get away with it. 

I'd say most, if not all of the kids could have thrived in an environment where they were stretched and prodded a bit and encouraged to, well, flaunt their intellect and achieve something. Any dream they had of higher education was quashed by JB & M in accordance with their cult leader who bragged that the kids would get great jobs because of their shining eyes and character. Umm...nope...gotta have some sort of education to go along with it. The boys have all been steered into some sort of manual labor, working for daddy and the girls have all been told that their only job was to be a sweet, submissive helpmeet to some Y chromosome carrier. 

They've lived in a little bubble and show no signs of wanting to go beyond that. We'll see what happens in 5-10 years. 

And Jill is especially at a major disadvantage because her head mate refuses to work for a living or successfully get along with others in the work force. Jill is trying to earn a living because someone has to provide. I am curious to know who pays their bills. If they had money socked away, why did Derrick complain that TLC wasn’t paying  them and how hard Sam’s medical bills were  on their budget?

[feministxtian]

4 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

And Jill is especially at a major disadvantage because her head mate refuses to work for a living or successfully get along with others in the work force. Jill is trying to earn a living because someone has to provide. I am curious to know who pays their bills. If they had money socked away, why did Derrick complain that TLC wasn’t paying  them and how hard Sam’s medical bills were  on their budget?

Jill, like the other kids are used to a certain standard of living...I'm not seeing her headship providing her with that. She was the golden daughter, gifted a mansion at her wedding...and Derick the dick threw that all away to go traipsing down to sintral America to be a "missionary"...then they came back and he screwed them with TLC. So now, she's living in what seems to be a small duplex or apartment/townhouse with 2 small boys while he goes on with his life in law skool. I don't think that's what she originally signed up for when she said "I do" but...this is what she has to work with. 

She's probably bored and restless but can't express that because of that whole "keeping sweet" thing. On the other hand, I'm sure Jessa and Bin have had some loud "discussions" because Jessa isn't about to "keep sweet" and Bin seems to be the sort to be rather assertive himself. Derdick seems like he runs the show (or thinks he runs the show) and Jill just is along for the ride whether she likes it or not. Maybe if she found some sort of playgroup for the boys and meet other young moms, or did some volunteer work or something she'd learn more about social interaction outside her bubble.