Erin and Chad 4: Hoping She Loses the Polka Dot Cape

[zygote373]

Erin chimed into the ignorant propaganda chorus about the new NY law. It allows women and their medical professionals to make tough choices when the fetus is not viable or the mother’s life/safety is in danger. 

I originally saw it ~45 minutes after she posted, and the comments were turned off. No idea if she left them off from the get go or she turned them off after some rapid pushback. 

[Kangaroo]

44 minutes ago, zygote373 said:

I originally saw it ~45 minutes after she posted, and the comments were turned off. No idea if she left them off from the get go or she turned them off after some rapid pushback. 

The comments were originally on, but turned off pretty quickly. I didn't see any criticizing her originally though, they were all very supportive. There wasn't many comments at that time, maybe 20-30. I don't know how long she took to turn them off.

 

 

 

[VBOY9977]

She had the comments on in the beginning. Kelly even commented something about doctors, saying that the mayority of them didn’t agree with the law ?

I did saw a good # of critics but the mayority was positive

[nickelodeon]

Maybe people actually started offering to send her "all the babies they couldn't raise" and she had to recant.

[Carm_88]

The thing is that it's easy for people like Erin and Kelly to show their babies and say "How could a mother do this?" The law in New York is not for babies like Everly, it's for babies that will never live. No woman decides to abort their full term baby unless something is dreadfully wrong and their life is at stake. The ignorance is unreal! 

[CarrotCake]

While I hate how they use their babies for this anti-choice propaganda I do dislike this certain post a bit less than most others. It is little bit more 'I feel bad for the mothers that cannot raise their babies and I wish I could take them' and a bit less 'those mothers are pure evil'. 

But maybe that is just how I want to read it.

[SorenaJ]

Most women seeking late term abortions are not doing so because of fetal defects and life endangerment. 

[JillyO]

1 hour ago, SorenaJ said:

Most women seeking late term abortions are not doing so because of fetal defects and life endangerment. 

I don't know what anti-choice medium you got that information from, but that's just straight-up, 100% incorrect.

[nausicaa]

2 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

While I hate how they use their babies for this anti-choice propaganda I do dislike this certain post a bit less than most others. It is little bit more 'I feel bad for the mothers that cannot raise their babies and I wish I could take them' and a bit less 'those mothers are pure evil'. 

It's not hateful, and I don't think Erin is a nasty person, but its cloying naivete does make me roll my eyes. I wish Erin could grow up enough not to wholly rely on emotional knee-jerk reactions, see some nuance, and acknowledge that others live under different circumstances than her.

The number of abortions in New York state in 2016 was 87,325. Erin wants to feed, clothe, and educate all of those babies? They might need to upgrade from their two bedroom cottage...

[catlady]

1 hour ago, SorenaJ said:

Most women seeking late term abortions are not doing so because of fetal defects and life endangerment. 

Would you be so kind as to provide backup for this statement?  Over on the thread dedicated to the new NY law, another user shared statistics that contradict what you say.   

[dharmapunk]

14 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

The thing is that it's easy for people like Erin and Kelly to show their babies and say "How could a mother do this?" The law in New York is not for babies like Everly, it's for babies that will never live. No woman decides to abort their full term baby unless something is dreadfully wrong and their life is at stake. The ignorance is unreal! 

Actually I believe some mothers would carry their disabled baby to term if it was certain that the baby would die quickly.  I think the greatest fear is that a baby might survive for days, weeks, months...full of suffering without hope of a "happy" outcome.

But with the US healthcars system being what it is, I think there might also be mothers who make the decision to abort a disabled baby for economic reasons or because they know they would not have enough support to be able to raise a child with disabilities. This is were all those Christians could step in, if they wanted to. But it seems all they want to do is scream about how abortion is murder. ?

[SorenaJ]

36 minutes ago, JillyO said:

I don't know what anti-choice medium you got that information from, but that's just straight-up, 100% incorrect.

Where do you get the information from that I am incorrect? 

The Guttmacher Institute is pro-choice. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24188634

https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/journals/3711005.pdf

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3243347 (very old, so bit cautious with that one) 

And from Florida: 

http://ahca.myflorida.com/MCHQ/Central_Services/Training_Support/docs/TrimesterByReason_2018.pdf

@catlady there you go. Can you link me to the thread or the contradictive statistics? 

 

Edited January 28, 2019 by SorenaJ

[catlady]

18 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

Can you link me to the thread or the contradictive statistics? 

here's the thread.  i will read your links during my lunch break.  thank you.

[JillyO]

35 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

Where do you get the information from that I am incorrect? 

The Guttmacher Institute is pro-choice. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24188634

https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/journals/3711005.pdf

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3243347 (very old, so bit cautious with that one) 

And from Florida: 

http://ahca.myflorida.com/MCHQ/Central_Services/Training_Support/docs/TrimesterByReason_2018.pdf

@catlady there you go. Can you link me to the thread or the contradictive statistics? 

 

The first link does not discuss reasons why women have late-term abortion. It talks about who seeks them (i.e. demographic profiles). So that doesn't even apply to our questions.

The next two links talk about abortions in general, not late-term abortions. No one is arguing that the majority of all abortions are done because of fetal non-viability. But the vast majority of late-term abortions are.

The last link that talks about Florida only lists two late-term abortions, one of which was "Performed due to a Life Endangering Physical Condition" and the other was "Performed due to Serious Fetal Genetic Defect, Deformity or Abnormality." Now, some of the second-trimester abortions may also be considered late-term (generally considered either after 20 weeks or after viability) but before the start of the third trimester. However, there is no way to get that information from this statistic. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of second-trimester abortions take place at the beginning of the second trimester and are thus not even remotely considered late-term.

That said, none of your links support your claim that "Most women seeking late term abortions are not doing so because of fetal defects and life endangerment."

I have to leave for work now, but I'll come back tonight and provide some accurate informational links if nobody does so in the meantime.

Edited January 28, 2019 by JillyO
Fixed the error Coconut Flan pointed out

[Coconut Flan]

I think you meant second trimester abortion occur at the beginning of the second trimester i.e. before 20 weeks. 

 

[JillyO]

13 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

I think you meant second trimester abortion occur at the beginning of the second trimester i.e. before 20 weeks. 

Indeed. I fixed it up there, thank you.

[Carm_88]

52 minutes ago, dharmapunk said:

Actually I believe some mothers would carry their disabled baby to term if it was certain that the baby would die quickly.  I think the greatest fear is that a baby might survive for days, weeks, months...full of suffering without hope of a "happy" outcome.

Yeah the child may live, but they wouldn’t have any kind of life. Often times, it would be a life full of pain and suffering.

Either way an abortion that late has to be heartbreaking.

[SorenaJ]

13 minutes ago, JillyO said:

The first link does not discuss reasons why women have late-term abortion. It talks about who seeks them (i.e. demographic profiles). So that doesn't even apply to our questions.

The next two links talk about abortions in general, not late-term abortions. No one is arguing that the majority of all abortions are done because of fetal non-viability. But the vast majority of late-term abortions are.

The last link that talks about Florida only lists two late-term abortions, one of which was "Performed due to a Life Endangering Physical Condition" and the other was "Performed due to Serious Fetal Genetic Defect, Deformity or Abnormality." Now, some of the second-trimester abortions may also be considered late-term (generally considered either after 20 weeks or after viability) but before the start of the third trimester. However, there is no way to get that information from this statistic. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of second-trimester abortions take place at the beginning of the third trimester and are thus not even remotely considered late-term.



Surely who and why are related. Why are women seeking late-term abortions? Because of their demographic profile. Because they happen to be from a disadvantaged socioeconomic group. 

Yeah, okay, I defined late term as after 20 weeks, so included the second trimester. 

[SorenaJ]

Surely who and why are related. Why are women seeking late-term abortions? Because of their demographic profile. Because they happen to be from a disadvantaged socioeconomic group. 

Yeah, okay, I defined late term as after 20 weeks, so included the second trimester. 

EDIT: Okay, so having had a look at the NY thread and this paper from the first page https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/ss/ss6713a1.htm, it references on to the abstracts of the following papers on second trimester abortion (half of which I would define as late term, or even 16 weeks tbh) 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20399953 "women requesting second trimester abortions were more likely to report: obstacles financing the abortion, traveling long distances. These women were less often employed outside the home." 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24188634 "Most women seeking later abortion fit at least one of five profiles: They were raising children alone, were depressed or using illicit substances, were in conflict with a male partner or experiencing domestic violence, had trouble deciding and then had access problems, or were young and nulliparous."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16394050 "Factors associated with second-trimester abortion in logistic regression were prior second-trimester abortion, delay in obtaining state insurance, difficulty locating a provider, initial referral elsewhere, and uncertainty about last menstrual period."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16982236 "The most common reasons for delay were that it took a long time to make arrangements (59%), to decide (39%) and to find out about the pregnancy (36%). Poor women were about twice as likely to be delayed by difficulties in making arrangements."

 

Edited January 28, 2019 by SorenaJ

[Hisey]

1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

It's not hateful, and I don't think Erin is a nasty person, but its cloying naivete does make me roll my eyes. I wish Erin could grow up enough not to wholly rely on emotional knee-jerk reactions, see some nuance, and acknowledge that others live under different circumstances than her.

The number of abortions in New York state in 2016 was 87,325. Erin wants to feed, clothe, and educate all of those babies? They might need to upgrade from their two bedroom cottage...

Oh, please. If she really felt this way, she's stop having babies and start adopting out of foster care.

[neurogirl]

I am happy that Erin shared this post. I am one of those people who has held weirdly softer views of Chad and Erin (and have admitted as such!) but shouldn't, I think because as an insecure high schooler I basically dreamed of her life. And I KNEW she held these views. But to see her post her ignorance (along with all the other fundies), imagining (I presume) well taken-care-of white women aborting their almost full term chubby-cheeked healthy white babies for...fun? Sport? the influence of satan? 

It's just a good reminder that she votes to take away rights from women, minorities, LGBTQ individuals, etc. She may be pretty on the outside but her beliefs are just as ugly.

[Vinieartemis]

I read the comments before she turned them off. Some people respond her that there was a lot of children waiting to be adopted and she should do it if she really wanted to help children. 

[freethemall]

I feel like this thread title needs to be renamed:

Erin and Chad 4: Hoping She Loses the Polka Dot Cape  Ignorant Pro-Birth-but-not-Pro-Life Fundie Beliefs

(Because also I don't know what the polka dot cape is and also, a polka dot cape sounds fantastic)

[HarleyQuinn]

Chad and Erin get so many passes so I'm happy she showed her hateful colors too. I didn't get to see the comments before she turned them off.

What a stupid thing to say on her part. 

[AussieKrissy]

I have to admit, the only thing I give Erin props for is that she at least named what she was talking about. She did turn the comments off, but initially they weren't off. 

Jana and Jinger have vaguely posted about this NY legislation, as to not out their nasty colours and lose followers.

Erin believes it is wrong and says so. 

I don't agree with her but at least I know where she stands.

I hate "vaguebooking" or whatever the instagram term for that is. 

Just throw that shit at me, don't hint at it.