Lori Alexander 49: Immodest, Indiscreet, and Downright Inappropriate

[AlwaysDiscerning]

Say something reasonable, get called a demon. Just another day...

[Liza]

1 hour ago, Koala said:

honestly feel that nothing that I've done in this life, compares to the fact that I started the generation that never once spanked, in my family.  I am so happy that when my children look back and remember their father and I, they can honestly say that we never raised a hand to them.  I know that sounds crazy, but I take so much comfort in that.  

@Koala    My husband and I did the same thing and YES, you should take much comfort in not perpetrating the abuse.  I feel the exact same way.   

[polecat]

14 minutes ago, Imrlgoddess said:

@Koala That makes absolute sense.  I never gave it much thought but I didn't keep a fly swatter in the house for years and years.  That was my moms chosen tool, especially for me.  I guess we all have little ticks whether we understand what they are or not.  It doesn't make us weird or fucked up...just cautious.  

These (hidden under spoiler in case triggering): 

Spoiler

When I was a kid, that was what you got from every carnival or VBS or whatever -- a little token prize. I began dreading getting them because my mom would confiscate them, rip the ball off, and use them until they broke. 

Those "spankings" didn't hurt as much as the beatings she gave us with other implements (handled cutting boards, for instance), but they almost felt worse in a way because she'd cannibalized a TOY to give them.

 

16 minutes ago, Liza said:

@Koala    My husband and I did the same thing and YES, you should take much comfort in not perpetrating the abuse.  I feel the exact same way.   

I share this regularly because it's important. 

http://gretchenschmelzer.com/parents-corner/2015/8/11/parenting-when-you-have-a-history-of-trauma

[Lgirlrocks]

2 hours ago, Meeka said:

What I don't understand in regards to spanking is when they admit that there are other ways to discipline but chose to spank because it is easier. Ken admits this. Since when do parents do what is easier rather than what is better. It is easier to feed your children junk food or go out to McDonald's every day but instead parent often take the time and effort to make healthy food for their children and get them to eat it even though it is not easier. 

It also irritates me when they think that gentle parenting is the same as permissive parenting. My parents were definatly gentle parents and they never once spanked or even yelled. My sisters and I also grew up to be good moral people who hold down jobs, never been any trouble and are certainly not the problems that Lori and her ilk imagine we would be due to gentle parenting. My parents were quite strict, in fact, and we had quite a few rules of things that we had to do and were not allowed to do. However, they understood that we were children and using brute force to make a child do something, something that we probably were not even able to understand, does not work. 

My grandmother had 9 children and she also never spanked or yelled at them. All of them, except for 1 since she died as a child, are all wonderful people who never got in trouble with the law, have addictions or anger problem, are kind hearted people, and are all still married to their 1st spouses. This is the legacy of my family. What kind of legacy do parents who spank want to leave to their children just because spanking is easier?

 

My mom told me it wasn’t easy spanking my older brother. He was in trouble a lot, usually for the same stuff. My older brother has a lot of anger issues, maybe from being spanked maybe not. I never feared my parents or being spanked. My younger brother thinks that spankings and time outs work the same so you might as well spank. He was spanked a lot too. He was sneaky. I know that I couldn’t spank. What is the point in hurting someone that you love?

[polecat]

18 minutes ago, AlwaysDiscerning said:

Say something reasonable, get called a demon. Just another day...

Quick: What's more perverse? A woman nursing her baby, or good ole boy Joshua Joseph Hughes lecherously staring at her and condemning her as demon-possessed in his mind? 

 

[Petronella]

36 minutes ago, polecat said:

This just strikes me as really disrespectful. He's essentially mocking you publicly, in front of friends. The problem isn't so much your religious beliefs or his lack thereof but his failure to respect your feelings. 

Yes, agree.

Jessesgirl, while your husband coming to share your beliefs might superficially solve the problem of him making fun of them, the more important thing that needs solving is how he treats you when he doesn’t agree. He should be able to be kind whether he agrees or not; lack of such kindness is troubling.

[IntrinsicallyDisordered]

17 minutes ago, Liza said:

I KNEW Lori is having a dangerous effect on women ... here is an example of the thinking of a woman on her page.

Second to last paragraph she says  "your husband asks and your body is one so no  you can't be raped".    

It's hard to believe that any woman alive believes that a woman cannot be raped by her husband.  Just so sad.

 

So, like, if you are one in marriage and you can't be raped, does that hold for your husband too?  If he says no, and you "pump him dry" anyway, it's all good, right?  Somehow I doubt it.  These people are garbage.

Breastfeeding & modesty, I can't remember if I've told this story before but I was on a tram one night with a young mother wearing hajib and the full floor length tunic.  There were a handful of other women but most of the car was men of various ages, Muslim and not.  Her toddler was running around saying hi to everyone and when her infant started crying she started nursing.  Not one person said anything, stared, looked pointedly away, or otherwise acted like an ignorant jackass.  I was surprised for a second (I've seen many women in western clothes breastfeed, but this was a first) and then just thought good for her. 

5 minutes ago, Lgirlrocks said:

My mom told me it wasn’t easy spanking my older brother. He was in trouble a lot, usually for the same stuff. My older brother has a lot of anger issues, maybe from being spanked maybe not. I never feared my parents or being spanked. My younger brother thinks that spankings and time outs work the same so you might as well spank. He was spanked a lot too. He was sneaky. I know that I couldn’t spank. What is the point in hurting someone that you love?

Some people say the point is that the world is cruel and they're toughening their kids up by hurting them first.  But maybe the world wouldn't be as cruel if we didn't hit our children, if we treated them as fellow human beings and not as possessions.  

I've been laughed at for this, but I believe spanking and war are two ends of the same spectrum.  Might makes right is a vile ideology.

[polecat]

11 minutes ago, IntrinsicallyDisordered said:

Some people say the point is that the world is cruel and they're toughening their kids up by hurting them first.  But maybe the world wouldn't be as cruel if we didn't hit our children, if we treated them as fellow human beings and not as possessions.  

I've been laughed at for this, but I believe spanking and war are two ends of the same spectrum.  Might makes right is a vile ideology.

I read a book a long time ago called something like "Primitive Mothering in a Modern World," and this was one of its premises -- that cultures that spank or hit their kids tend to be more aggressive as a whole. 

re: the first part -- I have tried to follow the philosophy of not transforming my children to fit into this world but to raise children who will ultimately transform the world. (No, my ego isn't so big that I think MY kids will single-handedly change the world.)

[Jessesgirl25]

49 minutes ago, polecat said:

This just strikes me as really disrespectful. He's essentially mocking you publicly, in front of friends. The problem isn't so much your religious beliefs or his lack thereof but his failure to respect your feelings. 

It definitely feels that way at times. I often wonder though if it’s not starting to get to him and he gets curious but then wants people to back up his disbelief in order to confirm to himself that none of it is real? If we’re around other believers it’s not brought up, friends who don’t believe, he will bring it up. I am solid when it comes to my stance and don’t back down when questioned so I think that frustrates him even more. I don’t know if he thinks a group telling me I’m wrong will change me or what. 

If there is something I don’t know, I tell him I don’t know.  

Other than those rare occasions, we’re fine. Happy day to day, dealing with kids and life. I hope no one gets the impression that he’s a jerk, it’s just one of those things that sometimes marriages have that are a bit more sensitive. 

[Emilycharlotte]

2 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Sorry but as agnostic person myself I couldn't help rolling my eyes at this. How would you feel if I told you that l'd hope for your own good that you let go of those old superstitions? Not particularly respectful isn't it? 

No, it isn't, and I think that's the whole point of the passage about "winning without a word" that Lori tosses around. It's not respectful to nag/proselytize your spouse (or anybody), and it's also almost guaranteed to have a negative effect. 

Unlike Lori, I don't think women are responsible for--or capable of--saving their husbands' souls. And I don't think the passage is meant to be a promise that if you follow the steps your husband is guaranteed to be converted. 

I DO think it is practical advice for when you are a Christian married to a non-Christian: don't sow discord in your marriage by preaching at a spouse who doesn't want to hear it. Focus on your own spiritual journey, pray for your spouse, and then leave it up to God.

[Jessesgirl25]

42 minutes ago, Sobeknofret said:

No.

I am in the same situation as @Jessesgirl25in that I am a believer and he's agnostic. I will never let our relationship suffer because of proselytizing, not that Quakers do it anyway. I believe that God is all-merciful and all-loving, and will not let a soul slip through His hands that He can save.  My job is to just be the best that I can be, and let God take care of the rest. I love my husband with all my heart and soul, and I pray everyday for him, but I have to trust God with this issue. We've been together almost 30 years at this point, and we have a really solid relationship. I try to model the love of God to him as best I can by my actions, but in the end, his relationship with God is his own to mediate, and I would be overreaching in huge ways to interfere with that. 

All of this. 

[delphinium65]

39 minutes ago, AlwaysDiscerning said:

Say something reasonable, get called a demon. Just another day...

Because you can't simply disagree without being demon possessed.  I wish I had been more open with breastfeeding my babies.  If breastfeeding mothers were commonplace in our society it would cease to be an issue, except for people like Joshua. Reasoning with his type really is impossible! 

[Jessesgirl25]

48 minutes ago, Petronella said:

Jessesgirl, while your husband coming to share your beliefs might superficially solve the problem of him making fun of them, the more important thing that needs solving is how he treats you when he doesn’t agree. He should be able to be kind whether he agrees or not; lack of such kindness is troubling.

I swear this is the only area we really stumble. Of course we have the normal stressors of life and marriage but it’s okay. He’s not an unkind man or anything. He questions a lot about faith. Growing up with a single Mama and a father who would spank just because they (he and his brothers) hadn’t been spanked in a few days  when they would go to visit him, and who went and had a whole other family without their knowledge (we found a couple half sisters about 3 years ago) he asks if there is a God why would he let that all happen? 

Thats basically more or less his struggle. 

[Emilycharlotte]

1 hour ago, Jessesgirl25 said:

I would agree that it would be disrespectful IF I was saying that to him but I am not. Those are just my thoughts. I’m not pounding him over the head with a KJV demanding he read it or he must believe it. 

An example of when the contention and worries come is when he sees me reading the Bible and then later with friends if we get on the topic of religion he tells them that I read the Bible and write things down and it’s “f*cking weird” etc., etc. So MOST of the time it is a remark coming from him that sparks a disagreement. 

Am I wrong for arguing? Probably. Sometimes I can walk away, sometimes I can’t. I’m not a rigid or strict Christian, have hardly stepped into a church in the last 20 years. 

Sorry I kind of went a little long on your question, just felt I needed to clarify that I’m not walking around our house praying the Lord’s Prayer and demanding we all be saved, lol. 

 

First, welcome @Jessesgirl25 !

Second, your husband's attitude and comments are way out of line, and they must be really hurtful. I'm sorry you have to deal with that. 

I know first-hand how Lori's advice to sweetly, silently accept everything your husband says and does, no matter what, can appear to work in the short-term. The problem--besides it not being Biblical--is that you end up walking on egg shells, and things never get better. 

I would suggest checking out Leslie Vernick. She is a terrific, Biblical Christian counselor who is educated, compassionate,  and excellent at helping people understand setting boundaries, the real meaning of submission, how to deal with verbal abuse, etc.  She has a website and a blog which are easily found by googling her name. I can't recommend her highly enough.

 

[Jessesgirl25]

Just now, Emilycharlotte said:

First, welcome @Jessesgirl25 !

Second, your husband's attitude and comments are way out of line, and they must be really hurtful. I'm sorry you have to deal with that. 

I know first-hand how Lori's advice to sweetly, silently accept everything your husband says and does, no matter what, can appear to work in the short-term. The problem--besides it not being Biblical--is that you end up walking on egg shells, and things never get better. 

I would suggest checking out Leslie Vernick. She is a terrific, Biblical Christian counselor who is educated, compassionate,  and excellent at helping people understand setting boundaries, the real meaning of submission, how to deal with verbal abuse, etc.  She has a website and a blog which are easily found by googling her name. I can't recommend her highly enough.

 

Thank you and I will check her out! 

[SongRed7]

3 hours ago, Loveday said:

I cross that bridge as infrequently as possible, and never, EVER on a windy day. OMG.

The time i drove it I only was going South. Due to other aspects of the trip we came up thru the heart of Virginia on the way back.  I-95 through VA is another form of hell IMHO lol...

Any yes....I couldn't imagine it in the wind. We were lucky it was a calm day in August.

[Jessesgirl25]

Just wanted to say real quick that I left the chatroom made by Lori. I couldn’t in good conscience be there and be here, felt weird for me. Makes it a little less personal feeling for me if anyone from here posts something from one of them, if that makes any sense....oh and saw a few posts back people talking about why Lori doesn’t offer to pray or anything like that. A prayer request post is made every Tuesday in the chatroom for people to write what they would like prayed for, some of them go into detail so I think that’s why it goes in the chatroom. Just in case anyone was still wondering.

She could still offer something publicly as far as someone struggling, don’t know why she doesn’t do that. 

[Koala]

Captain Predictable just posted a picture of her new grandbaby.  It looks suspiciously like a loaf of Einkorn Sourdough bread, but I'm sure it'll outgrow it.

But seriously, she just posted a loaf of bread...to announce a new grandbaby.   Who does that?  The baby was mentioned almost as an afterthought.  The main thing is the food.  Kind of like when she posted the "deathbed salad".  This is birth bread.  Yum.  

Quote

This just came out to the oven! I made it for my DIL who just had my 7th grandbaby! I made everyone French toast with this bread this morning and everyone loved it! I used it to make my Parmesan chicken last night and they loved it too! It’s such a great bread to know how to make! 

Love the announcement about your precious new loaf of bread grandbaby, Lori!  Nice to know you've spent this exciting time on the internet, trying to go viral.

 

Side note- The breastfeeding post- They're to her dil.  Can't have Ken drooling all over the family.

Had it *not* been her, Lori would have bragged about how modest she is.

Side note 2- that Instagram has 37 replies, but none of them show up...

[ladyicantxplain]

2 hours ago, Emilycharlotte said:

First, welcome @Jessesgirl25 !

Second, your husband's attitude and comments are way out of line, and they must be really hurtful. I'm sorry you have to deal with that. 

I know first-hand how Lori's advice to sweetly, silently accept everything your husband says and does, no matter what, can appear to work in the short-term. The problem--besides it not being Biblical--is that you end up walking on egg shells, and things never get better. 

I would suggest checking out Leslie Vernick. She is a terrific, Biblical Christian counselor who is educated, compassionate,  and excellent at helping people understand setting boundaries, the real meaning of submission, how to deal with verbal abuse, etc.  She has a website and a blog which are easily found by googling her name. I can't recommend her highly enough.

 

I second Leslie Vernick.  When I was first toying around with coming out of Comp'ism, I found her but quickly dismissed her out of fear that God was going to "squash" me for listening to a woman teach.  (Never mind that I had been listening to Lori "teach" for several years by this point).  Also highly recommend Rebecca Davis' blog. Heres the joy, I think it's called?  Someone will have to help me.

A big welcome to @Jessesgirl25

@Koala

deathebed salad and birth bread.

 

You just made me laugh SO hard.

Thanks.  Been gone for a couple weeks.

 

 

[klein_roeschen]

I put my experience with spanking under spoiler, it may sound not so harmfull to me, but I don't want to triggering anyone.

Spoiler

My parents had their different ways of punishment. Both where alcoholics and daily levels of booze in the blood influecend their punishment. My father used to beat with his houseslipper, but the more he was drunk, the less likely he would beat you. And the older I became, the more he relayed on me, exp after my mother moved out. My mother was different, she was a narcissist and the more drunk she was, the meaner she became. If I done something wrong in her eyes, she could ignore me for days and gave me the feeling I was less worth than dirt. And when she was drunk enough and in the right mood, she could be downright cruel, but only to me, never to my brother. Both are gone now, they drank themselves in an early grave. And while I miss the expierince of decent parents, I don't miss them.

Regarding breastfeeding. I worked ( and start saturday my new job in) in different pharmacies and by law german pharmacies are requiered to have a small room, where we can privatly talk to customers, take the bloodtest for bloodsugar, etc. And it is really common for young mothers to come to us with their crying babies and use the room to nurse in quiet and heated setting in colder weather. Public nursing is not a problem here, besides the one or two sideeyes from older persons.

Dinner today was a stirfry made of allready marinaded gyrosstyle pork, that my supermarket had on offer, a yellow zuchini, 2 red bellpeppers and springonions with tzatziki, dessert was my freshly backed red currant crumble cake. I saved my daily treat extra for that piece of cake and the special beer this evening

[SongRed7]

RE: the issue of spanking/not spanking and outcomes.

One of the many fallacies of Lori and her supporters/other like minded people's reasoning is they are assuming/assigning cause and effect for two things in the absence of strong empirical evidence.  

Ex:  I spanked/hit/beat my child and they grew up as respectful citizens. Since the kids turned out "fine " spanking therefore = successful child rearing.   But that is no different than saying "I fed my kid chocolate everyday of their life and they turned out great.  Therefore, chocolate = successful childrearing (oh! If that were true). One isn't necessarily the result of the other since there are so many variables, as well as inherent personalities we all have. So its not one size fits all. In fact, one size might not fit any....but its all coincidence. 

I haven't dug up and studied all the research into spanking/negative affects, but I would bet the studies were set up with control groups and sets of standard questions/measurements and outcomes. I would tend to believe those that used real data/findings that say spanking  is in fact negative in the development of  a child. I'm in my early 50s. I was spanked twice that I recall. I recall the incidences, but honestly can say they neither made me "straighten out and fly right" nor turned me into a violent monster who hated authority.  If anything it was a net zero. IF that's the case -- why do it? wjy use violence as a means of control.

So for Lori to say those studies are all wrong, is just well...WRONG.  She is basing her theory on everything based on anecdotal stories at best. It in no way proves or disproves anything.   The children she beat could very well have turned out great, despite the physical discipline (beatings).  

 

[ladyicantxplain]

@Jessesgirl25, it's hard to shed old mindsets sometimes; I get it.  It comes from religion, which is SO opposite of the love of God it is ridiculous.  I am actually ashamed that I spent so much time in the past agreeing with much of what is taught in ALCR and on the blog; it HURTS women!  It actually has the potential to mean life and death to wives, women and children (and even husbands and men, for that matter.)  It is laden with RELIGION and religious mindsets that do not align with the full gospel of Jesus Christ.    It is a huge step in the right direction for you to step out of that chat room, in my opinion.  Kudos to you, regardless of the motivation behind your choice.  You will see much more clearly being out of there, I believe.

 

 

[SuperNova]

3 hours ago, Koala said:

I despise those memes, and I am so sorry about you and your sister. 

Belts are very triggering for me.  They must be either worn, or put away.  I don't like to see them lying about, or draped over a chair until they're next worn.  

I hate to admit this (because I know it sounds crazy) but I used to actually hide them.  My husband would be trying to get ready for work, and he'd be like, "Hey, have you seen my belt?"  Then I'd have to tell him whatever bizarre place I'd stashed it.  Bless his heart, I don't know if he's ever figured out why.  I lean towards neat freak, so he probably just attributes it to that.  He knows that I was abused as a child, but he doesn't know any of the specifics, because I haven't yet brought myself to say it out loud.

To be VERY CLEAR- I wasn't hiding them from him.  He's the most wonderful, gentle man you'd ever meet.  I was hiding them....I don't know, it was almost like a compulsion.  I don't even really like to touch them.   Seeing them is just too much.  I don't mind if they're being worn...but if they aren't, they must be put out of my sight.  

Now that I think about it, I am the same way with a lot of objects.  There are many things I simply won't have in my house, and will go out of my way to avoid in a store.  God, that's fucked up.  But, @Ken and Lori Alexander, THAT is what abuse does to kids.

I was talking to a friend once about my childhood. At that point we had been friends for about ten years but she knew next to nothing about my upbringing. That day I told her what it was like growing up with my abuser and she said, you must have always been so scared. She was surprised when I said no, we were like rabbits. Rabbits don't walk around being constantly afraid, they're very good at being cautious. We were like little animals hiding from a predator. As an adult I know the threat is gone but some ideas are hard to let go of because they developed instinctively before I even had language. I still live with many of the same survival skills, good and bad, and they can affect my life, good and bad. 

 

I'm not sure how my comment adds on to this but it was the first thing I thought of after reading your post.

[AlwaysDiscerning]

43 minutes ago, Jessesgirl25 said:

Just wanted to say real quick that I left the chatroom made by Lori. I couldn’t in good conscience be there and be here, felt weird for me. Makes it a little less personal feeling for me if anyone from here posts something from one of them, if that makes any sense....oh and saw a few posts back people talking about why Lori doesn’t offer to pray or anything like that. A prayer request post is made every Tuesday in the chatroom for people to write what they would like prayed for, some of them go into detail so I think that’s why it goes in the chatroom. Just in case anyone was still wondering.

She could still offer something publicly as far as someone struggling, don’t know why she doesn’t do that. 

Yeah, its a good questions. It sets the tone that her chat room is the group for her elite followers. The VIPs who get special treatment. The general masses don't need prayer requests. This is how Lori comes across as snobby. 

Another person for you to check out is peacefulwife.com (April Cassidy). She is sweet. Says the same message as Lori but no one here has issues with her because of the mature, empathetic way she handles things. 

[Koala]

11 minutes ago, klein_roeschen said:

Dinner today was a stirfry made of allready marinaded gyrosstyle pork, that my supermarket had on offer, a yellow zuchini, 2 red bellpeppers and springonions with tzatziki, dessert was my freshly backed red currant crumble cake. I saved my daily treat extra for that piece of cake and the special beer this evening

That sounds really good.  I love stirfry.  My husband and I had dental cleanings today, so something easy for dinner tonight.  I am leaning pretty heavily towards something like potstickers and rice (one of our favorites).