Mr and Mrs Jill Duggar 58: The D’Wreckoning

[SorenaJ]

The only things I had to memorise was the Lord's Prayer and the Apostles' Creed. 

[libgirl2]

Just now, SorenaJ said:

The only things I had to memorise was the Lord's Prayer and the Apostles' Creed. 

I think with those (and the Hail Mary) it was more of saying it all the time that you memorized it. 

[candygirl200413]

My sunday school would give prizes to memorize the order of the bible and that every week we would be given a bible verse that you would recite the next week to our teachers. Most of the kids at my church though went to christian day schools and I went to evil secular (but culturally heavily Jewish) public school. But they also wouldn't start this until Kindergarten and it was a verse, never so crazy like 10 lines worth.

[libgirl2]

38 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

I memorized the Catholic mass young enough that I don't recall ever NOT having the whole thing memorized.  I used to say it along with the priest, which my parents tolerated because honestly, you can't be TOO picky with how little kids amuse themselves during something so long and boring as the mass. 

I still have Langston Hughes' Harlem, Shelley's Ozymandias, parts of T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men and Prufrock, and excerpts from Their Eyes Were Watching God memorized from high school.  I honestly come back to them so many times to frame experiences and situations.  They're incredible insights into the human condition, I feel, and I keep them with me like linguistic security blankets.  I didn't want to memorize them at the time, but I am happy I did.  Especially Harlem, which I have quoted more than once on FJ.   

That being said, I also have quite a bit of Shakespeare floating around in my brain, which I have NEVER used except to be an ass, so I do feel I could have done without that memorization.  Hamlet is one of my favorite works, but I really don't NEED his soliloquy taking up brain space, thanks.  

That all being said, memorization is actually a very poor method of obtaining useful knowledge.  Not only does it have an incredibly low rate of retention over time, it also is not generally stored in a way that makes the data contained useful or even available to the brain in problem solving. Memorization =/= learning.  Doesn't make it a useless skill, but it's not as important as many people think it is...especially in an age of modern technology where we can store information in devices instead of needing them stored in the brain.  

I used to say it along with the priest too just to myself. 

[Cheetah]

2 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

Did anyone else notice that in that Twitter pic of Ofjill post-voting that it was in reverse?  His wedding ring appeared to be on the right hand and the sticker said (roughly) "I betoV".

Selfies (from a front camera on a phone) flip the photos just like a mirror.  

[Georgiana]

1 hour ago, justoneoftwo said:

Someone was saying memorization is valuable for learning and is undervalued now.  Just a question, as someone who places basically no value on it, what is the value of memorization?  I don't mean memorization because you've used something enough you just know it (I can make waffles without the recipe because my kid wants waffles at least twice a week) but actually actively trying to memorize something?

Cognitive Scientists and those that study human learning disagree with memorization being a useful learning tool, often VERY strongly.  Make it Stick: The Science of Successful Learning is a great and very accessible book that discusses this, if anyone is interested  

That being said, pulling things from memory can be useful, and learning how to quickly store things in memory is a skill that often needs to be learned and practiced.  For example, if I just want to remember where things were placed in a room I just walked into so I can go get decorations from the store, that would be a situation where being able to quickly memorize would be important.  Or memorizing addresses.  Or remembering names.  Or street order in a city.  Or where you parked a car.  There are definitely life situations where being able to memorize and retrieve information quickly puts you ahead or makes your life easier.

In the past, this was a much more important skill because those situations were more common and there was no working around them.  For my mother and grandmother, if they couldn't remember something they had to go through the effort of manually looking it up, find someone to tell them, or make decisions without that information.  Those are all bad options for a variety of reasons, so being able to store information quickly was a huge advantage to anyone with that skill.  It might be the difference between a successful person and someone who struggles.  In that world, you can see how it would be a central part of a well rounded education.  But now?  I can whip out my phone and take a picture of the room.  I can store a person's address in their contact info.  I can look up a map any time.  I can tell google to remember where I parked.  Names, I just suck at.  So while it was important for my grandmother and mother to learn how to quickly put things into their memory so they could pull them out later, it's less important for me and even less important for my niece.  It was definitely a key part of education in a world where a person needed to personally store any reference information they might need to call upon.  But that's not the world we live in anymore. 

People with good memories do look very smart and sleek because they don't have to pull out their phones so much.  I personally enjoy my library of factoids.  But overall it's kind of like penmanship/writing cursive: it's useful at a certain level, it's a cool skill, but is it VITAL in our modern times?  Not as much.  Are other skills more important?  Almost certainly.  

[feministxtian]

I grew up Catholic. The last Mass I attended was my mother's funeral Mass over 5 years ago. However, the prayers and responses stay with you! I also had to memorize the preamble to the Constitution in 8th grade history and STILL can recite it many (more than I'll admit) years later. 

I'm not sure that memorization is really useful, I'm of the opinion that if someone can remember the general gist of what was written or studied, they have a foundation to go back and re-read whatever it was. But, then again, I'm a fountain of fairly useless trivia...

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

2 hours ago, TheOneAndOnly said:

I suspect the memorization thing was helpful to anyone called to preach who couldn't read. 

Made me laugh.  Immediately  thought of good ol' Bro GHaw!

[Frumper]

OfJill has locked down his Twitter account - only followers can see him now.  I have to say I am pretty surprised, I really thought he was getting off on the negative attention.  I guess maybe not.

[onekidanddone]

6 minutes ago, Frumper said:

OfJill has locked down his Twitter account - only followers can see him now.  I have to say I am pretty surprised, I really thought he was getting off on the negative attention.  I guess maybe not.

I was just coming here to say this.  So OfJill is just burring further down into the echo chamber.  Pity, his tweets were a great amusement 

[Georgiana]

Locking down your twitter account when you already have hundreds of thousands of followers is one of my favorite futile gestures.  I am excessively diverted.  

Also, I wonder if this was Derick's own free choice...or if he was strong armed into doing so by the powers that be.  

[ShesCrafty]

24 minutes ago, Frumper said:

OfJill has locked down his Twitter account - only followers can see him now.  I have to say I am pretty surprised, I really thought he was getting off on the negative attention.  I guess maybe not.

I do believe that’s the first intelligent decision he’s made since he became a Duggar. 

[PennySycamore]

1 hour ago, Cheetah said:

Selfies (from a front camera on a phone) flip the photos just like a mirror.  

Thanks for the explanation.  I don't do selfies (haven't had a smartphone for that long either) and just usually end up snapping photos of the dogs and cat.

[onekidanddone]

35 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

Locking down your twitter account when you already have hundreds of thousands of followers is one of my favorite futile gestures.  I am excessively diverted.  

Also, I wonder if this was Derick's own free choice...or if he was strong armed into doing so by the powers that be.  

Yea, but now we need a mole. I can't because I'm blocked. 

[Shiny]

Bahahahaha!! I love that he went private. That tool needs to rethink the way he interacts with the world. 

I wonder what was said to make him lock it? 

[karen77]

42 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

Locking down your twitter account when you already have hundreds of thousands of followers is one of my favorite futile gestures.  I am excessively diverted.  

Also, I wonder if this was Derick's own free choice...or if he was strong armed into doing so by the powers that be.  

Didn't he do this once before (maybe it was instagram) and then it was public again within a week?

[Rachel333]

3 hours ago, justoneoftwo said:

Someone was saying memorization is valuable for learning and is undervalued now.  Just a question, as someone who places basically no value on it, what is the value of memorization?  I don't mean memorization because you've used something enough you just know it (I can make waffles without the recipe because my kid wants waffles at least twice a week) but actually actively trying to memorize something?

It can just be a mental exercise, and you really do need it sometimes depending on what you're learning (here's one argument in favor of it). Medical school takes a ton of memorization, for example, and if you're learning a language it's really helpful to just memorize a lot of vocabulary so you have it as a base and can start actually using it, as that's one instance where having the information available isn't all that helpful if you can't produce it on your own. It doesn't take the place of real comprehension by any means -- I feel like that's something people argue against even though no one is actually saying memorization in itself is the same as real learning, and I guess that's what I mean when I say it's undervalued: people have this kneejerk reaction to it sometimes -- but there are times when you're just going to have to straight up memorize stuff.

Now, I'm not claiming it's incredibly important either, just that it can be a useful skill sometimes and that at the very least I don't think memorization in itself is going to hurt anything. The content that Israel is memorizing could be a different issue, however.

[onekidanddone]

1 minute ago, Shiny said:

Bahahahaha!! I love that he went private. That tool needs to rethink the way he interacts with the world. 

I wonder what was said to make him lock it? 

The truth, and like the line from that movie "He can't handle the truth".

[justoneoftwo]

Very interesting, I'll have to look into the sources above.  I will say that some of the things mentioned seem to not be memorization, just having a good memory, but now I'm not sure what the difference is.

I'm sad he made his twitter private, we got a lot of information from it, particularly about things we are really curious about.  I also expected a bit of a blow up in Duggar land, but if its locked down that may not happen.

I see value in him making their dirty laundry public, but I get why he wouldn't want to, if it was anyone else I would say they were getting smarter ...

[singsingsing]

I'm sure there are plenty of people who were already following him on Twitter who can still see what he posts and will have no problem sharing it (paraphrased, if it's being posted here, since it's technically now a private account).

I also have a feeling his Twitter won't stay locked down for long. Isn't this part of his ministry? Think about all the lost souls you're not reaching now, Jillrick! I mean your next tweet might have been the one that finally converted me!

[Dandruff]

32 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

Also, I wonder if this was Derick's own free choice...or if he was strong armed into doing so by the powers that be.

I'm not inclined to give him full credit for this decision. 

My guess:  Cross Church accepted DWreck, along with his reputation, into their program.  They're now noticing repeated discussion of their program, as associated with DWreck and his reputation, online.  After DWreck is gone from the program, any subsequent massive failures of his may be discussed in the context of Cross Church and their program for a long time to come.  Perhaps Cross Church was hoping that DWreck would turn around his public reputation while in the program?  Doesn't look like that's happened.  I suspect they've had a word with him regarding his future objectives and those of the church, along with how those objectives would be best supported...and he decided to lay low for awhile.

[Rachel333]

4 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

Very interesting, I'll have to look into the sources above.  I will say that some of the things mentioned seem to not be memorization, just having a good memory, but now I'm not sure what the difference is.

Intentionally committing things to memory is definitely different than simply having a good memory. I know I've made the mistake when studying far too often of thinking that simply reading through the material carefully is enough when I never remember as much as I think I will. I remember things a lot longer when I intentionally memorize them too.

I think I'm extolling the benefits of memorization far more than I actually feel, though.   It's really not that big of a deal, I just meant it as a much more tepid, "eh, it can be kind of useful and it's probably not going to hurt anything" in response to the posters upset by a child memorizing something.

[RubyRei]

I’m surprised by how many people think memorization is close to useless. I was an incredibly book smart and successful student until my ability to memorize started to go downhill. I mean, good luck getting through calculus or physics or the like without memorizing anything! It’s not the most important aspect of learning to say the least and I’m against memorizing for the sake of memorizing, but I can’t imagine how anyone could get through undergraduate or graduate school without having to memorize while they learn the material. 

[acheronbeach]

1 hour ago, Georgiana said:

Also, I wonder if this was Derick's own free choice...or if he was strong armed into doing so by the powers that be.  

Well, InTouch posted this lovely headline less than a day ago, "Derick Dillard Just Reminded Us That He's Garbage Again With New Hate-Filled Rant."  They also posted an article about how moronic Jill's tweets are, and highlighted her silence in the face of her husband's hatefulness.  I can't imagine either of those went over well at Casa Dillard.  

Like @Dandruff mentioned, I wonder what Cross Church thinks of all this.  As the months have passed, he has turned into nothing but a lightning bolt for criticism.  I can't imagine that they expected him to be such a liability for their brand.  

[libgirl2]

40 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

I'm not inclined to give him full credit for this decision. 

My guess:  Cross Church accepted DWreck, along with his reputation, into their program.  They're now noticing repeated discussion of their program, as associated with DWreck and his reputation, online.  After DWreck is gone from the program, any subsequent massive failures of his may be discussed in the context of Cross Church and their program for a long time to come.  Perhaps Cross Church was hoping that DWreck would turn around his public reputation while in the program?  Doesn't look like that's happened.  I suspect they've had a word with him regarding his future objectives and those of the church, along with how those objectives would be best supported...and he decided to lay low for awhile.

I think you are on to something. Maybe he is trying to get a real job too? 

1 minute ago, acheronbeach said:

Well, InTouch posted this lovely headline less than a day ago, "Derick Dillard Just Reminded Us That He's Garbage Again With New Hate-Filled Rant."  They also posted an article about how moronic Jill's tweets are, and highlighted her silence in the face of her husband's hatefulness.  I can't imagine either of those went over well at Casa Dillard.  

Like @Dandruff mentioned, I wonder what Cross Church thinks of all this.  As the months have passed, he has turned into nothing but a lightning bolt for criticism.  I can't imagine that they expected him to be such a liability for their brand.  

It hurts their reputation when things like that come out. The image of the nice smiling Christian doesn't jive (or attract followers) like an out of control Derick. 

Its like I said maybe he is trying to get an actual job if Cross said enough was enough?