Dillards 56: Running a Marathon but not Working

[Hashtag Blessed]

34 minutes ago, Oh_Dear! said:

In no way was I trying to be disrespectful to people who actually suffer with mental illness. My husband was recently diagnosed with bipolar tendencies so mental illness has been on my mind and I’ve been reading about it a lot. Some of Derricks actions seem more than just hateful, but completely psychotic... and there seems to have been some sort of trigger that has caused him to start this raging against LGBTQ community.

All he’s been doing is ranting on twitter. That doesn’t scream “psychosis” to me. 

I’m with @Gobsmacked and @viii, he’s just a hateful little shit. He feels entitled and hates that people can’t see how godly he is. I believe he is just seething with jealousy that these happily queer people are being celebrated by the masses, and paid by tlc, just to be themselves. He cannot stand how praised they are while he’s mocked and hated for being what he was always told was the best thing in the world: A straight, white, christian cis-man. No one is giving him the gold stars for existing that he feels entitled to! He and Jill are criticized constantly and got kicked off of tlc. Meanwhile Jazz Jennings, Nate and Jeremiah are thriving and being praised as good parents and role models.

It isn’t mental illness. It is just the jealous tantrums of a man-baby.

[Carm_88]

I don't think Derick has a mental illness, I think that he's an asshole. His beliefs are the only ones that matter, everyone else should follow life according to Derick. Does he have white saviour complex? Sure as bear's shit in the woods, he does. 

As for immigration, I'm Canadian and all my relatives were not so legal immigrants in the 1800s. They came and they stayed, no one questioned them. Newfoundland is interesting though, we have a very distinct sense of self and an up and down relationship with Canada. We became the 10th province in 1949, my grandfather was 29, the same age I am now. He had two young children and though he wanted to be Canadian, he felt lost. Canada offered so much good but Newfoundland was a country, we were both British and not British. Now similar to many immigrants and refugees, we became the joke. We were backward, stupid, and we talked funny. The chip on the shoulder mentality lasts through generations and it hurts. It hurts to be just as much a part of a country as everyone else but to be the joke. I can't imagine how that would feel if you were fleeing persecution, if you were of a different race, or if you spoke a completely different language. The us vs. them mentality doesn't work. People should be able to celebrate who they are and where they came from, whether it be England in the 1700s or Syria in 2016. 

Fundies and people of their ilk thrive on hate, let us be loving! 

[SilverBeach]

3 hours ago, Fjrocks said:

Folks, please,  can you pretty please move this discussion to the Quiver Full of Politics?  You have threads on threads over there to hash this out.  We can't move since this is the appropriate place  or I'd genuinely be happy to move and work around you

Thread drift eventually peters out, even the contentious kind. You can try asking Curious or one of the helpmeets if they think it should be moved though.

[Destiny]

1 minute ago, SilverBeach said:

Thread drift eventually peters out, even the contentious kind. You can try asking Curious or one of the helpmeets if they think it should be moved though.

If you guys wanna move the convo to politics, go nuts, but I see no need to move it. Drift is part of what we do here. 

[SilverBeach]

1 minute ago, Destiny said:

If you guys wanna move the convo to politics, go nuts, but I see no need to move it. Drift is part of what we do here. 

I agree, thanks. I navigate around drift all the time, but when its a topic I like, I enjoy it!. 

[Destiny]

Just now, SilverBeach said:

I agree, thanks. I navigate around drift all the time, but when its a topic I like, I enjoy it!. 

I hear there's a thread around somewhere with drift about putting things up your butt. Sometimes I like it, sometimes I roll my eyes, but always, it's one of my favourite things about FJ. 

[SilverBeach]

Just now, Destiny said:

I hear there's a thread around somewhere with drift about putting things up your butt. Sometimes I like it, sometimes I roll my eyes, but always, it's one of my favourite things about FJ. 

Yep, I noped out of that discussion, LOL! The bestiality one too. Kitties, recipes, nail polish, Trump hate, ...I'm in!

[Destiny]

Just now, SilverBeach said:

Yep, I noped out of that discussion, LOL! The bestiality one too. Kitties, recipes, nail polish, Trump hate, ...I'm in!

Bestiality too? Yikes. Oh, FJ. <3

[BernRul]

2 hours ago, Denim Jumper said:

Yes. The very reason the US began to tightly restrict immigration was cut down on the influx of “undesirable” immigrants, particularly eastern European, southern European, and Chinese.

 

 

 

 

I'm of Irish descent and it really hurts to hear other Irish Americans spout anti-immigrant retoric. It's like they completely forget the hate that our people faced when they first came here. And they didn't all come here "legally" either. Many Irish bought tickets to Canada because it was cheaper and then snuck across the border to America. So for all some people know, they could be descended from "illegals." 

As for mental illness, even if Derick did have it, it doesn't excuse being an asshole. But I don't think he does. I think he's an insecure bully whose life is not going the way he planned. It's common for people to have a crisis when life doesn't go the way they want, but for a lot of people it helps them grow and ultimately become better people. For some, like Derick, it makes them worse. 

[Jilli]

I don’t have any reason to believe Derick is mentally ill. I do think it’s an interesting idea. He is angry which can be related to anxiety. He might be experiencing situational anxiety, but I don’t think so because he seems passionate about what angers him. He’s in his late 20s which is the only thing that I could make me believe mental illness would just pop up. 

 

Derick doesn’t seem like a rampage part either, he’s able to express it through unapologetic asshole-ness.

[Fjrocks]

    I feel the need clarify I have absolutely no opposition to FJ drift.  I relish it.

    I felt like we were engaged in two important discussions that both deserved being thoroughly hashed out and tried to very kindly ask we separate them out since they already had their own homes anyways.   

    The help meet said no so while initially disappointed,  I have respect for the culture and am just going to roll with it.

[bananabread]

Come at me, bro.

[SilverBeach]

Dewreck is not mentally ill, he is just a narrow-minded, hateful asshole who is becoming more assholish as time goes on. And some churches do conflate mental illness, especially depression and anxiety, with something lacking spiritually instead of wacky brain chemistry. That's a huge mistake. I appreciated it when the senior pastor at my church disclosed his depression and taking medication for it. Several of the pastors go to counseling and therapy. Denying the reality of mental illness among believers is not useful and can lead to harmful practices. Check out how sloth became one of the seven deadly sins.

[seraaa]

On 4/28/2018 at 8:11 PM, feministxtian said:

Regarding "undocumented" immigrants. I have NO sympathy whatsoever. Many of the ones here have had years to get their shit straight, amnesties, etc.

For many people- the Dreamers fall into this category, for example - there is no legal path to citizenship, which is why they're waiting on Congress to create one, legislatively. Part of the impetus towards immigration reform is that the current system doesn't offer a viable route for many people.

[SilverBeach]

5 minutes ago, Fjrocks said:

    I feel the need clarify I have absolutely no opposition to FJ drift.  I relish it.

    I felt like we were engaged in two important discussions that both deserved being thoroughly hashed out and tried to very kindly ask we separate them out since they already had their own homes anyways.   

    The help meet said no so while initially disappointed,  I have respect for the culture and am just going to roll with it.

I appreciate this, thread drift is usually less important, but politics came up organically here. I will express my disgust about Trump wherever I can, can't help myself!  I do think 45 and his administration has emboldened pricks like Dewreck.

[bananabread]

I'm not comfortable speculating on D-Wreck's mental health (or lack thereof), but I do oftentimes find myself thinking about this:

I've known many different people of many different persuasions. Some are actively pro-LGBT rights. Some are indifferent. Some passively disapprove of the LGBT "lifestyle" (in the same way one may disapprove of premarital or casual sex), but don't feel it's their place to interfere in other's lives and would never be rude to an LGBT person. Some change their views with the times.

But the ONLY people I've ever met who are vocally and obsessively anti-LGBT, so much that it seems to consume them, are people who:

a. I know for a fact have secretly experimented with homosexuality themselves, OR

b. I know have been abused by a member of the same sex, and who think homosexuality is to blame.

Not saying this is definitely the case with D-Wreck. But I do wonder what could possibly compel someone to have SUCH an irrational, all-consuming obsession with LGBT people.

[SassyPants]

4 hours ago, JillyO said:

Do you seriously not understand the difference between your husband's situation and that of people who flee their home countries because their lives are in danger (be it from gang violence, economic destitution, lack of adequate medical care, or something else)?

These people don't have the luxury of waiting for years and years, spending thousands of dollars in the process, to possibly, maybe, get the chance to legally come to the United States. I know that it is frustrating for anyone to go through the legal immigration process. But the two situations are in no way comparable. Was your husband at risk of being murdered by a gang who was looking for his ex, like the woman in the CNN article @amandaaries linked to, while he was waiting for his visa? Was he at risk of starvation? Did he have a congenital heart defect and his home country didn't have the necessary medical facilities to treat him?

I can't believe how heartless some of our posters here apparently are. You are not better than anyone else because you had the good fortune to be born in the US (or another rich, developed country). Try to have a little empathy.

I have said this before on the board, I do not think everyone has the ability to feel empathy- 

[SapphireSlytherin]

3 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Have you considered that if you succeed in retiring to the UK (having legally jumped through all those hoops you so resent) you will be an immigrant yourself, and possibly accused of sucking on the teat of the NHS.  You should know that immigrants are not always popular, legal or not.  I'm quite astonished you want to retire to the UK.  You seem to hate the place, the people, and you will be closer to those UK relatives towards whom you have demonstrated contempt.

Of course I've considered that. And I will be a LEGAL immigrant to the UK when it happens. NHS will actually cost us £££ because I will not have paid into the system, unless I decide to get a "retirement job" when we're there.

Can you please point out to me where I have EVER said I hate the UK and its people? Because the opposite is quite true. I love every single second I spend in the country. And if you knew my relatives there, you would understand the contempt. My MIL physically and emotionally abused my husband from the time he was 2 until he moved out of her house when he was 14, to live on the streets.

As for DH - yes, he has a green card, and no, he has not (and will not) get his US citizenship.

[Jinder Roles]

@HermioneSparrow My thoughts are with you, loved ones you know and everyone struggling in your country. The situation in Venezuela is...there aren't words.

Stories like yours are frankly why I think a lot of first-world countries stances on immigration to "protect themselves" are largely bullshit. A lot of these same countries helped create/made worse situations in the countries that people are fleeing. Not to mention the bias in what type of person gets to immigrate easier. Plus they say they need to help themselves first. But the U.S. government has shown no interest in remedying situations like Flint, Michigan or Puerto Rico. Not to say there should be no legislation, but it needs to be revised. 

Anyways I'm glad you're doing well and have found a healthy environment. 

Edit: @Glasgowghirl...Yes! I've heard of several descendants of the Windrush generation being threatened with deportation to countries they weren't raised in. And this is despite past legislation and despite the fact that many of the Caribbean immigrants served Britain in significant ways during and after the war. Some of my own family members made their way to the U.K. in this manner. 

[Thumper]

1 hour ago, seraaa said:

For many people- the Dreamers fall into this category, for example - there is no legal path to citizenship, which is why they're waiting on Congress to create one, legislatively.

Indeed! Thank you. And congress has failed to do so many times even when they had a democratic majority. So for everyone who down voted my other comment please tell me what Nancy Pelosi has did for the benefit of Dreamers. I am all ears. So many people are stuck on "Trump is bad mmmkay" that they seem to forget there are 3 branches of government. And for the record I am a black woman (for everyone who wants to play identity politics which is all I see on this thread) so politics are more for me than middle class vitue signaling navel gazing trying to demonstrare how "progressive" I am.

Doug Jones and Tim Kaine keep voting in favor of Drumpf despite regular voters bring told "just vote blue". Someone please tell me what is the point of democrats if they continue to vote in favor of Republicans. Put these Ds feet to the fire. That seems more productive than contuing seething about the election. (Which does nothing).

If Trump was never born Ted Cruz would be President and Rs would still have a majority in the House and Senate so please tell me how Trump simply not existing advances a progressive agenda.

[FundieCentral]

@pandora: I don’t know what particular affiliation Cross Church has, but if it’s strictly evangelical than the majority attitude is likely something along the lines of “homosexual relationships are one sin among many, but for Christians the right way to deal with homosexual desire is celibacy/single service for God.” This is derived from the understanding that the only morally permissible sex is sex within marriage with the purpose of procreation or marital bonding. As such, a gay Christian person showing up at that church would be encouraged (but not forced in my experience) to consider committing oneself to celibacy, just like an unmarried cohabiting couple showing up would be encouraged to move out again until marriage. You likely would not be able to become an official member of the church without repenting and moving away from “the gay lifestyle”. 

Churches vary in how they treat gay non-Christians: some say that these rules don’t apply to non-Christians because they’re not Christians. Some churches (the more authoritarian kind) want to see the world as a whole conform to biblical principles, whether or not the people within it are actually Christian. There is also a movement within evangelical churches that recognizes gay relationships as permissible and subject to the same rules as heterosexual relationships, with varying levels of agreement on whether raising children in such a relationship is proper. My strong suspicion is that across Church is firmly in the not-acceptable, authoritarian camp. 

However, none of the official stances of the Church Associations defend or encourage heckling, hating, or twitter abuse a la Derrick, they usually attempt to convert. In my experience, even independent churches will often attempt to pray with someone, read the Bible with them, etc etc. and “convert” them to celibacy rather than have abuse as their primary mode of interaction. Now, what individual member churches and their followers do is a different matter. Some church associations are more tolerant than others of member churches and followers “diverging” from this official policy into the pressuring/threatening/heckling territory.

Overall, it tends to be true that the more gay people have been in a church, the kinder it tends to be. (Clarification - unrelated to the paragraph before!)

[Lurky]

1 hour ago, bananabread said:

But the ONLY people I've ever met who are vocally and obsessively anti-LGBT, so much that it seems to consume them, are people who:

a. I know for a fact have secretly experimented with homosexuality themselves, OR

b. I know have been abused by a member of the same sex, and who think homosexuality is to blame.

I mean, I can't dispute your anecdata, but as a lesbian, I can 100% promise you I've met homophobic arseholes who are neither closeted nor the victims of child abuse.  

I've said this before on FJ, but this idea that all virulently homophobic people are secretly closeted is another way of saying "real heterosexuals are never homophobic", and that only someone who was homosexual would be that nasty.  Of course there are some people who are terrified people will realise they're LGBT, so lash out to divert attention, but there are also a hell of a lot of straight people who are just as bad, just because they're prejudiced.  When you look at the incidence of homosexuality in society, it's not just a minority of a minority who are driving homophobia - and if it were, they wouldn't have the influence they do.

It's both insulting to LGBT people that being in the closet makes you a hateful person, and seems like it's letting straight people off the hook.

And I hope I'm misunderstanding you, but your second point reads like you are conflating abusers and homosexuals, which, if that's what you're trying to say, is just plain wrong, and if it's intentional, would be super insulting.

[Palimpsest]

3 hours ago, pandora said:

Genuine question- What percentage of church members do people think believe the anti-gay rhetoric? I ask because I feel like I've heard it confidently asserted here both that just about everyone attending a cross church believes those things, and then there's been posts saying that Derick' s vitriol towards the queer community will not be well received by their church community. I've always assumed the sentiment there swayed heavily towards Derick's beliefs, because he's so hateful so openly, but what do I know? I'd love to hear other people's opinions and reasoning.

You would need a member of Cross church to answer that question conclusively.  My guess is that Cross Church members are pro-Derick's ugly ideas because Pastor Floyd has also been just as hateful.  And they are voluntary members of that church.

42 minutes ago, FundieCentral said:

@pandora: I don’t know what particular affiliation Cross Church has, but if it’s strictly evangelical than the majority attitude is likely something along the lines of “homosexual relationships are one sin among many, but for Christians the right way to deal with homosexual desire is celibacy/single service for God.” This is derived from the understanding that the only morally permissible sex is sex within marriage with the purpose of procreation or marital bonding. As such, a gay Christian person showing up at that church would be encouraged (but not forced in my experience) to consider committing oneself to celibacy, just like an unmarried cohabiting couple showing up would be encouraged to move out again until marriage. You likely would not be able to become an official member of the church without repenting and moving away from “the gay lifestyle”. 

Churches vary in how they treat gay non-Christians: some say that these rules don’t apply to non-Christians because they’re not Christians. Some churches (the more authoritarian kind) want to see the world as a whole conform to biblical principles, whether or not the people within it are actually Christian. There is also a movement within evangelical churches that recognizes gay relationships as permissible and subject to the same rules as heterosexual relationships, with varying levels of agreement on whether raising children in such a relationship is proper. My strong suspicion is that across Church is firmly in the not-acceptable, slightly authoritarian camp. 

Um.  As explained above, Cross Church is SBC.  And the SBC leadership is getting increasingly supportive of horrendously anti-gay rhetoric.

As for IFB churches and "non-denomination" churches, they are all little tubs that stand on their own bottoms.  Some may not be hateful.  But, from observation, far too many are.

@FundieCentral also said:

Quote

 

However, none of the official stances of the church associations defend or encourage heckling, hating, or twitter abuse a la Derrick.

 

Oh, come on.  I can point to many extreme fundamentalist and even evangelical churches that heckle and hate.  

Quote

In my experience, even independent baptist churches will attempt to pray with someone, read the Bible with them, etc etc. and “convert” them to celibacy. Now, what individual members do is a different matter. Some churches are more tolerant than others of members “diverging” from this official policy into the pressuring/threatening/heckling territory. Overall, it tends to be true that the more gay people have been in a church, the kinder it tends to be.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you but attempts at "Praying away the gay" isn't kind.  Or tolerant. It is ugly behavior pretending to be nice. 

It is utterly disrespectful.  And it doesn't work.  Let us just make that clear.   Thanks.

2 hours ago, Destiny said:

I hear there's a thread around somewhere with drift about putting things up your butt. Sometimes I like it, sometimes I roll my eyes, but always, it's one of my favourite things about FJ. 

Mine too.  But my scrolling fingers sometimes get cramp.  And I run away from some thread drift. Things like bestiality, horrendous bloody child birth stories, and foreign objects inserted in rectums make me run a mile. 

2 hours ago, BernRul said:

I'm of Irish descent and it really hurts to hear other Irish Americans spout anti-immigrant retoric. It's like they completely forget the hate that our people faced when they first came here. And they didn't all come here "legally" either. Many Irish bought tickets to Canada because it was cheaper and then snuck across the border to America. So for all some people know, they could be descended from "illegals." 

As for mental illness, even if Derick did have it, it doesn't excuse being an asshole. But I don't think he does. I think he's an insecure bully whose life is not going the way he planned. It's common for people to have a crisis when life doesn't go the way they want, but for a lot of people it helps them grow and ultimately become better people. For some, like Derick, it makes them worse. 

I agree.  And to Free Jinger.  I am so glad you joined us.

 

[TheOneAndOnly]

I wonder if Derick has a sort of frustrated savior complex.  He went on missions but who knows if anything he did ever helped anyone. TLC won't let him preach fire and brimstone. If he wants to "help" but no one will let him that must make him miserable.

[Bad Wolf]

Don't you have to train a lot for a marathon? Wouldn't that take away from his studies and family time? JK.