Joy & Austin 21: Still Talking About Baby Gideon

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

4 hours ago, Toothfairy said:

Because these kids are in competitionwith each other. Home births gives you more points 

The home birthing started with Anna and their asinine modesty standards, she was worried about a man she didn't know seeing her vag, so they took the insane risk of an unattended home birth. They were very lucky she seems to have fairly easy births, and her and Mac were fine. With the rest she had a half hearted attempt at care with a lay midwife.  

I'm not sure why they stopped getting OB care, probably the cost savings, except with Jill & now Joy how much are they really saving, having both had emergency c/sections? I know for a fact doctors HATE when women come in in active/end stage labor needing medical intervention.  It increases the likelihood of a bad outcome, which in turn increases the risk for a malpractice suit. These backwoods nitwits (and yes I'm calling the Duggar's backwoods nitwits) who think rightwing Jebus will save them from their own stupidity, and when all goes well they praise him to the heavens, and when it doesn't they blame the doctor and sue.

[HarleyQuinn]

I really think the birth weight is more about poor diet than genetics. You can tell Jessa tried to be more active during her pregnancy with Henry than Spurg and he was only 8 lbs. High 8 lbs, but still.

[SassyPants]

37 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I really think the birth weight is more about poor diet than genetics. You can tell Jessa tried to be more active during her pregnancy with Henry than Spurg and he was only 8 lbs. High 8 lbs, but still.

Jessa even mentioned that she tried to watch it more closely with Henry! Michelle also mentioned that during her pregnancy with Jessa, her largest baby, she ate a candy bar every day of her pregnancy.  Yep, Michelle connected the contributory dots.

[mydoggoskeeper]

If I were Jinger (arguably the slimmest of the bunch), with 3/3 of my sisters having HUGE babies and complications with most of the births, there is no way in rufus I would even attempt to have a home birth.  I cannot see her or rather Jeremy letting her labor for hours in pain when we have these new fangled medical advances to help with all of this.  

[Eternalbluepearl]

When I had baby Pearl, being in the hospital and having very caring nurses, a wonderful doctor whome I had never met before and having monitors on me while I pushed were so comforting. I felt so safe with these competant people that I forgot to worry and just enjoyed the experience of delivering my baby. The medical staff made everything go as smooth as it could. It's been 3 mos but I want to send a thank you letter or something. I had never met the delivering doctor because my hospital closed their labor and delivery ward when I was 8 mos pregnant and I had to deliver elsewhere. 

[melon]

12 hours ago, bucket said:

I wonder if she wasn’t ready for the labor, wore out, and got scared? That can definitely lead to a hospital transfer and if she was really exhausted, a c-section. 

 

I call bullshit on a 10lb baby flipping breach mid labor. 

It isn't quite the same,but my oldest son,was in what they call the posterior position.I kept hearing the dr say that,at the time <I did not know what it meant.The dr, tried to move the baby,which hurt like hell,my baby would not budge.I was able to a him and all of my sons,vaginally but I had to have episiotomies (sp) each time.

2 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

The home birthing started with Anna and their asinine modesty standards, she was worried about a man she didn't know seeing her vag, so they took the insane risk of an unattended home birth. They were very lucky she seems to have fairly easy births, and her and Mac were fine. With the rest she had a half hearted attempt at care with a lay midwife.  

I'm not sure why they stopped getting OB care, probably the cost savings, except with Jill & now Joy how much are they really saving, having both had emergency c/sections? I know for a fact doctors HATE when women come in in active/end stage labor needing medical intervention.  It increases the likelihood of a bad outcome, which in turn increases the risk for a malpractice suit. These backwoods nitwits (and yes I'm calling the Duggar's backwoods nitwits) who think rightwing Jebus will save them from their own stupidity, and when all goes well they praise him to the heavens, and when it doesn't they blame the doctor and sue.

Her modesty standards are asinine.I'd a rather my male doctor see my va jay jay then be televised giving birth on the toilet.

 

[viii]

23 minutes ago, mydoggoskeeper said:

If I were Jinger (arguably the slimmest of the bunch), with 3/3 of my sisters having HUGE babies and complications with most of the births, there is no way in rufus I would even attempt to have a home birth.  I cannot see her or rather Jeremy letting her labor for hours in pain when we have these new fangled medical advances to help with all of this.  

I think Jinger will have a relatively average size baby because she doesn't seem to be carrying so big, plus judging from insta, she's made a real effort in what she eats. 

[GeoBQn]

9 hours ago, Kittikatz said:

I think that @MargaretElliott is correct that a lot of people in the modern world don't understand the perils of childbirth. I will never forget reading a letter to the editor in our local paper. It was written by the mother of a baby who had died within minutes of its birth. She was angry at what she saw as the incompetence of the hospital, her doctors, nurses and the world at large, not because anyone mishandled the birth, but because "nobody had ever told her that babies could die."

It kind of blew me back because I can't fathom anyone not knowing that anyone and anything can die at any moment, but maybe we're so used to living charmed lives that death isn't discussed or considered much outside of a palliative or critical care unit.

It's almost like people feel entitled to a happy outcome to all their endeavours.

I feel like my mom could have written something similar after she was diagnosed with ovarian cancer.  From the first signs of trouble with her bloodwork to her surgery, the doctors kept emphasizing that there was only a "small chance" that it was cancer, that the tumor was "borderline" and "probably benign."  When the test results finally came back that she, in fact, had a malignant tumor and needed chemotherapy, she was ANGRY.  She felt like the doctors were so focused on giving her a positive outlook that they lied to her about the reality of her situation.

[VBOY9977]

Did anyone else notice that in the congratulations video Ben said that he was coming home from work when Jessa told him Joy had the baby, but on the episode he was there at the compound waiting on the birth with everyone else... weird 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

Just thought I'd through this out there, a good friend of mine had wonderful prenatal care, exercised regularly, ate fresh whole foods, very VERY little processed foods (she still eats this way) did everything right.  Went to the hospital when she went into labor at 40 weeks 2 days to have her medically supervised VBAC, and the baby still died.

She would argue, as would a lot of us, that her baby would have most likely survived if she'd had a midwife supervising a home birth or in a birth center.  The baby had a cord accident, her shoulder caught the cord and pinched off her oxygen supply.  Everything was fine when her doctor checked her, she got up to use the bathroom and walk the hall for a bit, and then went back to bed and was hooked back up to the monitor.  When the doc came back about 3 hours later to check her progress he realized the nurse was monitoring mom on both monitors, and went to move the monitor around when he found babies heart beat, it was in the double digits.  They RAN her to the operating room and had the baby out in less than10 minutes (she had to be put out as she hadn't had an epidural yet) her husband wasn't even in the room when the baby was born, no time to get him ready, as fast as they were the damage was already done. She was on life support for 2 1/2 days before it was shut off and her heart stopped almost immediately.

A midwife wouldn't have been delivering other babies or taking a nap as she was on call at the hospital for 48 hours.  The cord most likely pinched while she was walking, and IF the nurse had known better or the doctor hadn't been so busy it would have been caught hours sooner and the baby would have survived. It was the nurses fault, she SHOULD have known better, but was new at her job and didn't, it was a training issue, the head nurse SHOULD have been watching her more closely, but P said her baby was only 1 of 14 born that day, they were insanely busy, they didn't have time to babysit each other, where as at home or in a birth center you are the only patient, or one of only two or 3.

 

[justoneoftwo]

People forget that even with modern medicine giving birth is still THE MOST DANGEROUS thing the average American women will do in her life.  (Your more likely to die in a car, but that has to do with the amount of time you spend in a car vs. labor, per instance the death rate for giving birth is much higher).

People also seem to forget that The Business of Being Born was filmed in 2008, and hospitals have responded by changing.  Further the documentary itself is suspect and had an obvious agenda.  It also focused more on the process than the results, something I am hesitant to do with the most dangerous activity I will ever do.

The cost of a proper home birth is on average actually more than a hospital birth.  The only cost saving measures the Duggars are taking is to not have proper care.  

I don't know if they are getting some kind of exception to the ACA, but if not they could have a super high deductible plan, and pre natal care would be 100% covered (not birth).  There is no good reason for them to be avoiding this.

Child birth is 100% a natural thing, so is death from child birth.

[SapphireSlytherin]

24 minutes ago, GeoBQn said:

I feel like my mom could have written something similar after she was diagnosed with ovarian cancer.  From the first signs of trouble with her bloodwork to her surgery, the doctors kept emphasizing that there was only a "small chance" that it was cancer, that the tumor was "borderline" and "probably benign."  When the test results finally came back that she, in fact, had a malignant tumor and needed chemotherapy, she was ANGRY.  She felt like the doctors were so focused on giving her a positive outlook that they lied to her about the reality of her situation.

Doctors ALWAYS ALWAYS downplay the possibility that it's cancer. My breast surgeon even had the grace to appear shocked when my suspicious mass turned out to be cancerous. He was SO SURE it was benign - even after I had seen the looks on the faces of the ultrasound tech and the guy who did my US-guided biopsy. Then he practically BEGGED me only to have a lumpectomy - saying it was "small" and I'd "only" need radiation afterwards. I insisted on a bilateral mastectomy - which, after all pathologies were complete - meant I didn't have to have chemo OR radiation. Also, they found atypical hyperplasia in my so-called "good" breast, and he again had the grace to admit he was wrong to insist on a lumpectomy, saying I'd have been back in a year for another surgery.

[lizzybee]

Things: 

I'm pretty sure I recall Gothard mentioning homebirthing as an affordable option as a way to increase family size but I cannot recall if it is in the Advanced or Basic.

Yes, you can determine a range for weight of baby via ultrasound. Those are definitely not completely accurate but it can give you an idea of what you're working with. 

I watched it, and unless they just weren't showing the midwife, the only person I saw there was Jill. I really hope that the person they were calling the midwife wasn't just Jill. If it was, yeah that freaking explains why no one realized baby was breech. So irritating that they put themselves in danger like this. 

If Joy would have had a hospital birth from the beginning there was a good chance they would have checked first that said baby was head down (they did with me) before allowing her to attempt a vaginal birth and would have attempted to flip him if he was determined breech and saved her a c-section if they'd been successful. If he was breech before hand, a good OB would have caught it and tried to flip him prior to labor and would have scheduled a C if they were unsuccessful right out of the gate saving her a lot of pain and suffering for nothing. 

I really am wondering if these girls are not doing glucose tolerance screening with these large babies. It's on my mind because I had mine yesterday (I passed, yay!). Not being aware that you have gestational diabetes can definitely result in big babies. I really hope that's not the case but these really small girls with these really huge babies makes me wonder. GD doesn't discriminate. I don't care how tiny you are, great your metabolism can be, or how many babies your mama had you can still have it, Duggars. 

Lastly, suffering for days only to also have a c-section is akin to just birthing both ways. Now you have surgery+rigors of a miserable labor to recover from. Why don't you want doctors/nurses to help you? 

[Hembie]

This happened 10 years ago but I was pregnant with twins and at a hospital that specialized in multiple births in a major city. Up until the birth Baby A was head down. When I went into labour. They did a quick ultrasound and told me Baby A was still head down. Many hours later at  8  cm. They checked again and oops they had misread the ultrasound. Baby A was breach.  He had flipped from a week ago but not during labour. There was never any real emergency, but a c-section was scheduled that morning and I had my babies. So even doctors don't always get it right even with an ultrasound. 

For the record. I went on to have midwife attended VBACs in hospital. But these were real midwives in Ontario. I can't understand this lay midwife trend in the states. 

[karen77]

13 hours ago, nst said:

well you are my hero !! did you get an icecream during that time... because then you would get a medal 

It is possible!! But honestly, none of that hurt at ALL.. just feels like your stomach tightening up a bit, no pain. Trust me the pain came later, the epi wore off mid-transition (most painful part of the birth process) so, there were some major swear words said before they jacked my epi back up and then I couldn't feel a thing.

 

 

As for Joy, she tried the HB, didn't work, so it'll be interesting to see which way she goes for #2.  Then I'll slap some more judgement on her if she goes Jill's route there, but if she does a hospital birth and tries for a VBAC (at the hospital obviously) I think that is reasonable.

[AtlanticTug]

3 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I really think the birth weight is more about poor diet than genetics. You can tell Jessa tried to be more active during her pregnancy with Henry than Spurg and he was only 8 lbs. High 8 lbs, but still.

I totally agree but you almost can’t say that here without being accused of fat shaming a pregnant woman. Look, the reality is you need about 300 calories extra per day and not really any in the first trimester. Joy gained an enormous amount of weight by the time she announced her pregnancy (15-16 weeks) and I don’t care how sensitive we want to be, that is unhealthy. Interestingly enough endocrinologists specializing in diabetes will tell you that gestational diabetes is highly correlated with inappropriate/excessive weight gain in first trimester and they generally view first tri weight gain as a negative. 

Jinger has NOT followed that path and I will bet she’ll have a more manageable sized baby.

[squiddysquid]

36 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Just thought I'd through this out there, a good friend of mine had wonderful prenatal care, exercised regularly, ate fresh whole foods, very VERY little processed foods (she still eats this way) did everything right.  Went to the hospital when she went into labor at 40 weeks 2 days to have her medically supervised VBAC, and the baby still died.

She would argue, as would a lot of us, that her baby would have most likely survived if she'd had a midwife supervising a home birth or in a birth center.  The baby had a cord accident, her shoulder caught the cord and pinched off her oxygen supply.  Everything was fine when her doctor checked her, she got up to use the bathroom and walk the hall for a bit, and then went back to bed and was hooked back up to the monitor.  When the doc came back about 3 hours later to check her progress he realized the nurse was monitoring mom on both monitors, and went to move the monitor around when he found babies heart beat, it was in the double digits.  They RAN her to the operating room and had the baby out in less than10 minutes (she had to be put out as she hadn't had an epidural yet) her husband wasn't even in the room when the baby was born, no time to get him ready, as fast as they were the damage was already done. She was on life support for 2 1/2 days before it was shut off and her heart stopped almost immediately.

A midwife wouldn't have been delivering other babies or taking a nap as she was on call at the hospital for 48 hours.  The cord most likely pinched while she was walking, and IF the nurse had known better or the doctor hadn't been so busy it would have been caught hours sooner and the baby would have survived. It was the nurses fault, she SHOULD have known better, but was new at her job and didn't, it was a training issue, the head nurse SHOULD have been watching her more closely, but P said her baby was only 1 of 14 born that day, they were insanely busy, they didn't have time to babysit each other, where as at home or in a birth center you are the only patient, or one of only two or 3.

 

This sounds like shoulder dystocia. It happens suddenly, is unpredictable and has a high mortality rate.

You have about 5 min to get the baby out, so even with the best care the survival chances are really bad unfortunately.

SD remains an unpreventable and unpredictable obstetric emergency

shoulder dystocia is impossible to predict or prevent in an individual patient

 

[Glasgowghirl]

1 hour ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Doctors ALWAYS ALWAYS downplay the possibility that it's cancer. My breast surgeon even had the grace to appear shocked when my suspicious mass turned out to be cancerous. He was SO SURE it was benign - even after I had seen the looks on the faces of the ultrasound tech and the guy who did my US-guided biopsy. Then he practically BEGGED me only to have a lumpectomy - saying it was "small" and I'd "only" need radiation afterwards. I insisted on a bilateral mastectomy - which, after all pathologies were complete - meant I didn't have to have chemo OR radiation. Also, they found atypical hyperplasia in my so-called "good" breast, and he again had the grace to admit he was wrong to insist on a lumpectomy, saying I'd have been back in a year for another surgery.

The doctor told my mum the lump in her thyroid was benign, almost 2 years ago a family friend was diagnosed with cancer in her leg and died a few months later, this prompted mum to go back to doctor, half her thyroid was removed and turned out it was cancerous and she needed the rest removed and two rounds of radiotherapy,  she is now got the all clear.

 

[Toothfairy]

4 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

The home birthing started with Anna and their asinine modesty standards, she was worried about a man she didn't know seeing her vag, so they took the insane risk of an unattended home birth. They were very lucky she seems to have fairly easy births, and her and Mac were fine. With the rest she had a half hearted attempt at care with a lay midwife.  

I'm not sure why they stopped getting OB care, probably the cost savings, except with Jill & now Joy how much are they really saving, having both had emergency c/sections? I know for a fact doctors HATE when women come in in active/end stage labor needing medical intervention.  It increases the likelihood of a bad outcome, which in turn increases the risk for a malpractice suit. These backwoods nitwits (and yes I'm calling the Duggar's backwoods nitwits) who think rightwing Jebus will save them from their own stupidity, and when all goes well they praise him to the heavens, and when it doesn't they blame the doctor and sue.

Derrick said TLC didn't pay for births. So not affording it is another factor. 

[justoneoftwo]

17 minutes ago, Toothfairy said:

Derrick said TLC didn't pay for births. So not affording it is another factor. 

Home birth being cheaper is often a myth.  Obviously its cheaper than a c-section or a NICU stay, but you have those either way if you need them.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

I gained less weight with my second pregnancy yet he was much bigger than my first. I ate very similarly with both pregnancies and consumed little processed sugar since it made me nauseated. I'm guessing it was genetics.

[ladybug15]

I am 17 weeks pregnant and am using certified midwives. however my midwives deliver at the University Hospital, use ultrasounds including one when you get to the hospital to determine the position of the baby. the hospital has a full blown NICU and doctors on call, as midwives deliver in the same space. With breach baby they know how to turn it during labor and will attempt it if you want to.

I will be attempting VBAC as I gave birth to my twins by c-section. Twin A was butt down. If Twin A was head down and Twin B was breech they would have let me attempt vaginal birth and turn Twin B, but I would have to have epidural so I would be ready for c-section if anything goes wrong. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

Home birth being cheaper is often a myth.  Obviously its cheaper than a c-section or a NICU stay, but you have those either way if you need them.  

Scameritan pays for everything when having a homebirth. Many of these fundies have that kind of "insurance."

[Kittikatz]

My mom had the sunshine and roses thing spoon fed to her when she was diagnosed with breast cancer, and she latched onto it and had the minimal lumpectomy and followed up with radiation. This despite the fact that she has cystic/fibrous breasts that make finding problematic lumps tricky. Now she has to go for screenings every six months, and they've found another mass that she's ignoring.

One of her friends had the same diagnosis (minus fibrous breast issues) and choose a double mastectomy followed by a new pill that is taken daily that is supposed to prevent cancerous cells from spreading.  My mother went on about how if the doctors took her breasts, she wouldn't feel like a woman any more. WTF Mom???

I realize it's difficult to know what choices you would make until you are in the situation, but I think that if the genetics rule and I get a breast cancer diagnosis in the future, I'd lean towards the mastectomy followed by some nice reconstructive surgery. I wouldn't trust that another lump wouldn't grow.

[SapphireSlytherin]

I had "nice" reconstructive surgery. My "boobs" look great through clothing. In reality, though - they're not much to look at. They are just lumps of skin and implants. They're also basically "dead" to the touch because so many nerves were severed/removed during the mastectomies. BTW, in case you (in general) don't know - when a mastectomy is done, they cut a "football shaped" opening, scoop everything out, and sew it all back up in a mostly straight line, from mid-chest to just under the arm. (American football, obviously - so rugby ball for those elsewhere.)

They take the nipple in the vast majority of surgeries because cancers can (and do) lurk behind the nipple tissue.

As to why doctors downplay it? They're just as scared of cancer as anyone else on the planet.