Joy & Austin 21: Still Talking About Baby Gideon

[NotQuiteMotY]

8 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I gained less weight with my second pregnancy yet he was much bigger than my first. I ate very similarly with both pregnancies and consumed little processed sugar since it made me nauseated. I'm guessing it was genetics.

Also maybe that second babies tend to be larger? Not sure about your precise situation, obviously, but that is something I've seen cited in pregnancy books: that each subsequent baby tends to be larger than the one(s) before.

4 hours ago, Lizzybet said:

I was under the impression that having very large babies is a red flag. I didn’t know it could just be normal for some women.

It can kind of go either way. If there's a history of big babies in the family, there's a chance it's just normal, especially if everything's been checked and come up okay. But if it's not checked, it's hard to know.

On Joy: ouch. Worst of both worlds, laboring and having a c-section. I'm suspicious of the scenario of the baby flipping to breech in labor, though, especially a very big baby. It happens, but... I'd bet either no one checked, whoever the midwife was didn't know a butt from a head, or she honestly just couldn't do it because of exhaustion or size and went with that excuse. I haven't seen the episode, so that last bit may be pulling things out of thin air.

Someone mentioned upthread that s/he didn't know why Joy couldn't tell that the kicks were too low. This one I can understand: I never could either! Could have been feet or hands, for all I knew.

[Ivycoveredtower]

11 hours ago, VBOY9977 said:

Did anyone else notice that in the congratulations video Ben said that he was coming home from work when Jessa told him Joy had the baby, but on the episode he was there at the compound waiting on the birth with everyone else... weird 

I haven't seen it was he there when Jenny got the call about the Gender she was in labor for a long time and had the baby after three so he could have been at the house during some of the labor and at work during the end. 

10 hours ago, lizzybee said:

Things: 

I'm pretty sure I recall Gothard mentioning homebirthing as an affordable option as a way to increase family size but I cannot recall if it is in the Advanced or Basic.

Yes, you can determine a range for weight of baby via ultrasound. Those are definitely not completely accurate but it can give you an idea of what you're working with. 

I watched it, and unless they just weren't showing the midwife, the only person I saw there was Jill. I really hope that the person they were calling the midwife wasn't just Jill. If it was, yeah that freaking explains why no one realized baby was breech. So irritating that they put themselves in danger like this. 

 

so wait Jill was filmed. oh my and Derick said none of his family would be. he might be able to say the Jill talking heads from the week's episode were pre taped but not joy's birth. 

[VBOY9977]

@Ivycoveredtower yes he was there on the couch. Also, JD fires a gun with blue stuff to tell everyone the baby is a boy, and Ben is there holding spurgeon. Pics below: 

they either staged all of that or he faked the story because on the congratulations video he says Jessa asked him to guess the sex after she told him Gideon was born, but he clearly found with everyone else

 

[Ivycoveredtower]

2 minutes ago, VBOY9977 said:

@Ivycoveredtower yes he was there on the couch. Also, JD fires a gun with blue stuff to tell everyone the baby is a boy, and Ben is there holding spurgeon. Pics below: 

they either staged all of that or he faked the story

 

who the flip knows with the Duggar's we already know that Si and Lauren were already engaged before it was announced as Ben and Jessa are wearing the exact same outfits in both the congrats Joy and Austin and congrats Josiah and Lauren Videos. the Duggars do like to play fast and lose with the truth. though Ben sounded really happy with himself so I would think this one was more of a TLC reshoot thing. 

[DillyDally]

4 hours ago, VBOY9977 said:

they either staged all of that or he faked the story because on the congratulations video he says Jessa asked him to guess the sex after she told him Gideon was born, but he clearly found with everyone else

Good catch! You can't fool us, Duggars!  

[LittleOwl]

My main question is: Why on earth is Austen still wearing a cap in the theatre???  Complete with the hairnet on top of the cap 

[Knight of Ni]

8 minutes ago, LittleOwl said:

My main question is: Why on earth is Austen still wearing a cap in the theatre???  Complete with the hairnet on top of the cap 

Without the cap how will people know he’s a boy with the gender neutral scrubs on. 

[LittleOwl]

1 minute ago, Knight of Ni said:

Without the cap how will people know he’s a boy with the gender neutral scrubs on. 

Love it. 

[Jellybean]

22 hours ago, GeoBQn said:

I feel like my mom could have written something similar after she was diagnosed with ovarian cancer.  From the first signs of trouble with her bloodwork to her surgery, the doctors kept emphasizing that there was only a "small chance" that it was cancer, that the tumor was "borderline" and "probably benign."  When the test results finally came back that she, in fact, had a malignant tumor and needed chemotherapy, she was ANGRY.  She felt like the doctors were so focused on giving her a positive outlook that they lied to her about the reality of her situation.

 

22 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Doctors ALWAYS ALWAYS downplay the possibility that it's cancer. My breast surgeon even had the grace to appear shocked when my suspicious mass turned out to be cancerous. He was SO SURE it was benign - even after I had seen the looks on the faces of the ultrasound tech and the guy who did my US-guided biopsy. Then he practically BEGGED me only to have a lumpectomy - saying it was "small" and I'd "only" need radiation afterwards. I insisted on a bilateral mastectomy - which, after all pathologies were complete - meant I didn't have to have chemo OR radiation. Also, they found atypical hyperplasia in my so-called "good" breast, and he again had the grace to admit he was wrong to insist on a lumpectomy, saying I'd have been back in a year for another surgery.

 

21 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

The doctor told my mum the lump in her thyroid was benign, almost 2 years ago a family friend was diagnosed with cancer in her leg and died a few months later, this prompted mum to go back to doctor, half her thyroid was removed and turned out it was cancerous and she needed the rest removed and two rounds of radiotherapy,  she is now got the all clear.

 

 

20 hours ago, Kittikatz said:

My mom had the sunshine and roses thing spoon fed to her when she was diagnosed with breast cancer, and she latched onto it and had the minimal lumpectomy and followed up with radiation. This despite the fact that she has cystic/fibrous breasts that make finding problematic lumps tricky. Now she has to go for screenings every six months, and they've found another mass that she's ignoring.

One of her friends had the same diagnosis (minus fibrous breast issues) and choose a double mastectomy followed by a new pill that is taken daily that is supposed to prevent cancerous cells from spreading.  My mother went on about how if the doctors took her breasts, she wouldn't feel like a woman any more. WTF Mom???

I realize it's difficult to know what choices you would make until you are in the situation, but I think that if the genetics rule and I get a breast cancer diagnosis in the future, I'd lean towards the mastectomy followed by some nice reconstructive surgery. I wouldn't trust that another lump wouldn't grow.

Sorry to quote so many posts, but I wanted to respond to all of you. 

I agree that doctors are scared of bad outcomes and that they try to downplay things because they’re scared themselves and don’t want to make their patient scared, especially if it might be something benign. 

I think they need to know how to prepare people who are having testing and how to deliver bad news in a way that is compassionate but also accurate and informative (this information should probably also be given in written form because it’s so common for people to blank out after the initial diagnosis).

My medical school was renowned for its communication teaching, which really was good. We did a LOT of role playing, watching them back on video and discussing them in small groups. I really think it made a difference. 

When I was diagnosed with a rare disorder, I wasn’t given any preparation or any privacy. I was told in an open-plan room with several other patients and staff members, by someone I had barely met, “You have X disorder. Obviously that means you’ll never be able to have children.”

I was 27 and in a long-term, committed frelationship. I wanted children. I already knew about, and was coping with needing to use a wheelchair all the time for the rest of my life, as well as my diagnoses of bladder failure, intestinal failure, autonomic failure, etc. and I could live with those. This diagnosis just tied together all the things that were already wrong with me. That, on its own, would have been a good and helpful thing to know. I was just totally unprepared for not being able to have children, and the blasé way in which I was told felt almost unforgivable. I was too shocked to say anything, or even to cry. 

I got home and cried for three days straight, mourning the children I thought I’d have; mourning for Husbean (then Boyfbean), who would have been the most wonderful father. He took a day off work when I found out and we held each other and cried together.

Bad news is bad, but shit happens and we deal with it, as long as we’re given the information we need to be an active member of our medical team, and can contribute to any discussions about further treatment, etc. - it is just not fair to keep people in the dark.

I’m so sorry for all of who who experienced poor information and were not well prepared to receive bad news. Sending love to all of you.

[KelseyAnn]

20 hours ago, viii said:

I am just thankful to live in the time period we do! 

I'm a writer, and I'm currently working on a novel of Jane Seymour, the third wife of Henry VIII, who died of complications from child birth. We have come such a long way!

I wonder what would have happened had Jane lived, many people think she was his favorite. 

Holy crap! Is that a rare Jenny smile we see?

Also, in regards to Austin still wearing his cap, I can't say I blame him. In the panic of an emergency, I doubt the hat was the first thing on his mind. 

[Ivycoveredtower]

6 minutes ago, KelseyAnn said:

I wonder what would have happened had Jane lived, many people think she was his favorite. 

she was his favorite because she gave him a son. if she had lived he would have stayed married to her so no doubt was shed on said son which means wives 4-6 never would have happened and maybe more children. 

Henry didn't care who he was married to it as all about that male Heir and getting more male heir's. 

[singsingsing]

2 minutes ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

Henry didn't care who he was married to it as all about that male Heir and getting more male heir's.

Nah, Henry had a fairly romantic view of marriage and was constantly chasing this ideal of the perfect wife. It wasn't just about who could give him a son (though obviously that was a big factor). The main reason he married Anne Boleyn wasn't because he thought she was the perfect candidate to give him a son. There were plenty of other younger and probably more fertile women he could've chosen from. 

Jane didn't have time to fall from his favour, but I think there's a pretty good chance their marriage would have worked out fine if she had lived. She didn't rock the boat, and she did give him a son. Maybe he would've gotten bored with her or disenchanted, but most likely he just would have sought romance/excitement in the arms of his mistresses. No way would he have called into question the legitimacy of his marriage to the woman who'd given him his heir.

[JoiseyGoil]

I’d like to assume Jill and Derick took their doctor’s orders and waited at least six months-a year to conceive Samuel, do you think Joy and Austin would do the same?

[KelseyAnn]

20 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

 

Jane didn't have time to fall from his favour, but I think there's a pretty good chance their marriage would have worked out fine if she had lived. She didn't rock the boat, and she did give him a son. Maybe he would've gotten bored with her or disenchanted, but most likely he just would have sought romance/excitement in the arms of his mistresses. No way would he have called into question the legitimacy of his marriage to the woman who'd given him his heir.

1

I honestly do think Jane Seymour was going to be his Catherine replacement, as they both had easy temperments. 

[Ivycoveredtower]

7 minutes ago, JoiseyGoil said:

I’d like to assume Jill and Derick took their doctor’s orders and waited at least six months-a year to conceive Samuel, do you think Joy and Austin would do the same?

If she did she's smarter then her mother at least  Michelle never took that advice to wait that is for sure. she was always pregnant right away after her c-sections. 

[libgirl2]

15 minutes ago, KelseyAnn said:

I honestly do think Jane Seymour was going to be his Catherine replacement, as they both had easy temperments. 

After his tempestuous to Anne, I do believe Jane reminded him of the peaceful earlier days with Katherine. Would he have gotten bored? Maybe, but he would never have divorced her with a legitimate heir to the throne (and perhaps if she gave him another). 

[HarleyQuinn]

25 minutes ago, JoiseyGoil said:

I’d like to assume Jill and Derick took their doctor’s orders and waited at least six months-a year to conceive Samuel, do you think Joy and Austin would do the same?

Hopefully. 

[viii]

If Henry just wanted a son, he wouldn't have married Anne. She was already older, and from a relatively small family. There would have been plenty of other girls he could have chosen from. He was madly in love with Anne, and I honestly believe that she was his actual great love, not Jane. Jane has just been recorded as so because she gave him a son, and so Henry idealized her in his mind. 

If Jane had lived, then marriages 4 - 6 wouldn't have happened. Henry would have stayed married to her, and there probably would have been more children (I believe Henry of all people knew the importance of a 'spare'). The marriage would have been relatively happy, but I still think he would have strayed quite often to mistresses. None of them would have stuck, though. JMO. 

[libgirl2]

51 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Nah, Henry had a fairly romantic view of marriage and was constantly chasing this ideal of the perfect wife. It wasn't just about who could give him a son (though obviously that was a big factor). The main reason he married Anne Boleyn wasn't because he thought she was the perfect candidate to give him a son. There were plenty of other younger and probably more fertile women he could've chosen from. 

 

Exactly. I have read that often. With Katherine he was "rescuing the princess", with Ann of Cleves, he disguised himself to go greet her under the assumption she would find it romantic (she didn't)..... and yes, Anne Boleyn was already considered a bit "old" yet he hung in there. 

8 minutes ago, viii said:

If Henry just wanted a son, he wouldn't have married Anne. She was already older, and from a relatively small family. There would have been plenty of other girls he could have chosen from. He was madly in love with Anne, and I honestly believe that she was his actual great love, not Jane. Jane has just been recorded as so because she gave him a son, and so Henry idealized her in his mind. 

If Jane had lived, then marriages 4 - 6 wouldn't have happened. Henry would have stayed married to her, and there probably would have been more children (I believe Henry of all people knew the importance of a 'spare'). The marriage would have been relatively happy, but I still think he would have strayed quite often to mistresses. None of them would have stuck, though. JMO. 

I always thought he was more infatuated with Anne. Madly infatuated. I don't know if Henry ever really loved any woman besides his mother. I think he basically was looking for someone like her and got caught up with Anne and Catherine Howard who both got his passion going.... 

[justoneoftwo]

6 minutes ago, viii said:

If Henry just wanted a son, he wouldn't have married Anne. She was already older, and from a relatively small family. There would have been plenty of other girls he could have chosen from. He was madly in love with Anne, and I honestly believe that she was his actual great love, not Jane. Jane has just been recorded as so because she gave him a son, and so Henry idealized her in his mind. 

If Jane had lived, then marriages 4 - 6 wouldn't have happened. Henry would have stayed married to her, and there probably would have been more children (I believe Henry of all people knew the importance of a 'spare'). The marriage would have been relatively happy, but I still think he would have strayed quite often to mistresses. None of them would have stuck, though. JMO. 

It appears he may have had a genetic problem which caused his wives not to be able to carry a second child.  I don't think there would have been more children.  I don't think he would have divorced her though, just been unhappy and angry all the time.  He wouldn't risk his son for anything, so he couldn't have gotten rid of her.  I also don't think she was as compliant as she seemed, if she was maybe she would have agreed to go to a nunnery or something and let him move on.

[singsingsing]

25 minutes ago, viii said:

(I believe Henry of all people knew the importance of a 'spare').

Exactly - he definitely would have been intimately acquainted with the importance, because he himself was 'the spare'!

18 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

It appears he may have had a genetic problem which caused his wives not to be able to carry a second child.  I don't think there would have been more children.

I've heard this theory, and while it's interesting, it's still pure conjecture. Infant mortality was high in the 16th century. Children and young adults died all the time. It's entirely possible that Henry was just extremely unlucky. Catherine appeared to have issues with premature labour, yet she did have two living children, Mary and Henry, and Henry probably died of something that killed other babies all the time. Anne had one living child and two miscarriages - if Henry had stuck with her, she may well have had other living children. Jane had one living child and died, so we don't know if she would have had others. And by the time Henry got to Catherine Howard, he was older, obese, and possibly impotent. That's not to say that the theory isn't intriguing, just that it's not quite as compelling (to me) as some make it out to be.

(I guess basically my point is that we only have two wives worth of data - Catherine and Anne - and that's not quite enough for me to draw any conclusions.)

[Ivycoveredtower]

13 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

It appears he may have had a genetic problem which caused his wives not to be able to carry a second child.  I don't think there would have been more children.  I don't think he would have divorced her though, just been unhappy and angry all the time.  He wouldn't risk his son for anything, so he couldn't have gotten rid of her.  I also don't think she was as compliant as she seemed, if she was maybe she would have agreed to go to a nunnery or something and let him move on.

that doesn't make sense Catherine was pregnant 7 times  had 3 live birth's plus still births.  and miscarriages Mary was her fifth pregnancy and 2nd live birth her first son and second pregnancy lived 52 days a second live daughter was born later an lived a few hours.  it very well could have been a genetic issue on Henry's part but not with carrying the children. 

[Georgiana]

6 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Exactly. I have read that often. With Katherine he was "rescuing the princess", with Ann of Cleves, he disguised himself to go greet her under the assumption she would find it romantic (she didn't)..... and yes, Anne Boleyn was already considered a bit "old" yet he hung in there. 

Yes.  Anne of Cleves greatest "sin" was NOT that she was ugly, fat, or not a maid.  It's the fact that she didn't play into the great romantic fantasy that Henry loved so much.  Intentionally or not, when they first met, Anne didn't play Henry's game and he never forgave her for it.  Or at least that's the narrative.

But I personally wonder if Anne's conduct was largely irrelevant.  The fact that Henry felt forced into making a political marriage didn't sit well with him, and he was already upset about that before he met Anne.  Again, a practical, diplomatic marriage went right in the face of this great romantic fantasy that Henry seemed so into.  Katherine was the desperate princess he rescued, Anne was his Great Love, Jane was the comforter who healed his wounds from Anne and gave him a son...all 3 largely Courtly Love tropes.  And then here comes Anne of Cleves, the prudent marriage for diplomatic reasons.  You wont find love poems about that. 

I think barring Anne showing up and being a supermodel with a perfect disposition, Henry would have rejected the marriage because he just hated it on principle and hated that he was forced into it (Henry didn't like ANYTHING he was FORCED to do).  I personally think that one of the reasons Henry offered Anne such a generous settlement and treated her well afterward is that he really DID like her well enough...but being forced into a marriage clashed with his own ideals on marriage, his ideals on kingship, and his ideas about himself.  He COULDN'T stay in it, but that wasn't really Anne's fault and while he couldn't come out and say that without admitting he had been bullied, I think he did recognize on some level that his issues were with the marriage, not with the lady.  

Anyways, I am not a historian.  So I welcome this argument being torn to shreds  

[singsingsing]

@Georgiana I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. Henry's parents had a very dramatic/exciting/romantic beginning to their relationship. They then appeared to settle into a happy, harmonious and fruitful marriage, and his father was devastated when his mother died and never married again. Let's just put aside the fact that Henry's father did seem to be interested in marrying again, he just never got around to it - I think that Henry idealized his mother and idealized his parents' relationship. He was forever seeking to emulate it, and forever failing, because he could never succeed, because the picture of their marriage he had in his mind was a fairy tale.

[melon]

So he was always hoping,looking for something he'd never have?Is it also possible he had untreated diabetes?Leading to possible impotence,and a wound that would not heal?

I assume there wasn't much that could be done about diabetes,then.