Joy & Austin 21: Still Talking About Baby Gideon

[SapphireSlytherin]

I never jumped all over you - in fact, I agreed that sitting Indian-style cross-legged was no big deal. 

[Million Children For Jesus]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

There is all this talk of genetics.

So let's look at Michelle's babies- let's throw out the largest (Jessa, near 10lbs and Josie 1 lb)

For the babies that were born via the TEVVVEE times: IIRC, Jackson, Hannie and Jordyn all weighed less than 8lbs at birth, and Jenny was in the 8.5 lb range. Michelle has never mentioned any of the others being huge.

So far the Duggar generation 2 ladies have birthed: 2 , 9 lb -10ozers, 1 #9-11 ozer and 1 >than 10lbs- IMO, this is d/t poor prenatal care and education. The genetics does not support these huge babies.

Forget Henry, 8-11!

Michelle’s babies were all really close together. Is it possible that her babies would have been larger had she spaced them out longer? 

I was told by my doctor that getting pregnant within 12 months of delivery could cause the next child to weigh less than their full potential growth. I just checked the Mayo Clinic and the March of Dimes, and both sites suggest waiting 18 months after delivery before getting pregnant, and both list low birth weight as possible risks of spacing pregnancies too close together. 

Edit: I just took Benadryl, so I’m not sure if this post makes sense. I apologize if it doesn’t. I’m not sure anymore. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 hour ago, bananabread said:

A girl I knew from college had an attempted home birth like this. The midwife checked her, said everything was great, and she took castor oil to induce labor. Fast forward 12 hours, midwife comes over to check her and "discovers" baby is breech. The mother's belly shape hadn't changed at all. The baby was always breech, and the midwife completely missed it. The mother was PISSED and ended up needing an emergency c-section.

Midwives make mistakes, even real midwives. And you have to make it to the hospital to fix them.

My friend had a breach home birth, she KNEW the baby was breach, but the midwife didn't and she didn't tell the midwife.  The baby had been breach, they did that procedure to turn the baby it worked but the baby turned back the next day and she didn't tell her midwife.  The baby was only 6.5 lbs she had to call 911 twice,  once because the baby got stuck, thankfully he was out by the time the medics showed up, but he was blue and needed their supplemental oxygen. They had to be called back about 20 minutes after they left because she started to hemorrhage, she wound up spending 24 hours in the hospital. She risked her babies life because she was that scared of a c/section. 

[SassyPants]

23 minutes ago, Fjrocks said:

      Just want to say,  I am yet again amazed at how incredibly fair and slow to judge the folks here are.   You guys are still using asterisks or making qualifying statements, like "it appears," or " based on limited information."  The Duggars are not even remotely as generous as FJ.  FJ may be tough, but you guys are very fair. 

   In my mind,  I think there is enough evidence to say the Duggar girls do not receive quality prenatal care from Jill's trampling through Zika areas to botched home births.   I want to pull my hair out and scream, "#[email protected] you Duggars!  Stop preaching about abortion and mucking in other's people's business when you DO NOT EVEN CARE ENOUGH ABOUT YOUR UNBORN BABIES TO GET THEM PROPER MEDICAL CARE."  *

* My rage is based on limited, alleged or partial information available via a dramatized reality show. 

   

IMO, they likely get very spotty care*, but it's not from educated, degreed and licensed professionals.

Spotty care=  store bought in bulk, home PG test, Jill slapping a doppler on every pregnant abdomen related or attached to a Duggar and a boutique ultrasound-

[AnnEggBlandHer?]

When I was pregnant with my son I was doing a lot of prenatal yoga, and there were several women who were worried because by 36 weeks their babies were still breech. Most of the instructors swore by a certain chiropractor to flip the babies (that’s a little too ‘Erica Shupe’ for me but hey, maybe it works.) 

Any prenatal caregiver should be monitoring that the baby moves into the proper position well before the 20th hour of labor. And I agree that no 10 lb baby is flipping mid labor, especially when Joy is so short...there’s  not exactly room to spare in there.

 

[Nargus]

44 minutes ago, Sister Mozz said:

It is rare, but babies can turn breech even if they have been head down and even if they are full-term......Proper prenatal care and monitoring makes such a difference!

Amen! My close friend’s baby was head down at her 36&38 week appointments, at her 40 week appointment she was breech.

And her midwife referred her to a doctor immediately and her birth center plans became hospital plans right then.  

 

[SassyPants]

I wonder if the Duggar G2 females think that because their mother had so many successful, easy pregnancies and births that they will too, and that routine prenatal, L/D and postpartum care is for other people who are not associated with such successful and prolific birthing lineage?

[OhNoNike]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I have no idea if this is a thing but maybe genetics are involved? My mom, sister, and I all had vaginal deliveries without any problems. And all babies were 8 and 9+ pounds at the hospital. We joke that we have birthing hips but that's a joke. We don't really think that's a thing. 

Ehhh.  I was a c section, my husband was a c section, my step daughter was a c section and I had two complication-free, relatively quick and easy vagjnal deliveries.  My two were also both early but close to due dates and my husband and I were both fairly large/overdue babies.   

I think genetics certainly can play a part, but I learned from my Experience that it’s not everything. 

[Rachel333]

I'm at least glad they did go to the hospital once they learned the baby was breech (if that's actually what happened). There are a lot of people who advocate for home birth even with breech babies.

[Crazy Enough to Join]

I agree homebirths are a dangerous idea. But let's stop blaming the Duggar girls for not being able to pop out 9 or 10lb babies and get pregnant the next year with ease to pop out another one. M told the lie for years that any woman could easily pop out 19 or 20 babies if they only trusted God and did what nature intended them for. The truth is pregnancy and childbirth is neither "natural" or "easy" and plenty of women are just like the Duggar girls. It's not because they lacked prenatal care that they couldn't push out a 10lb baby. It's because childbirth is very difficult. (BTW I agree the breech thing is just something to say rather than the factual truth about what caused the C-section.)

[Glasgowghirl]

Both my mum and sister had c sections because baby was breach, Mum wanted to try vbac with my sister but was advised not to and then had me by c section a month early. My sister was told that despite baby being breach they could still attempt a natural birth, her waters had already broke 10 weeks early, she opted for a c section and then chose it for her second child. She had decided if before her section date she had gone into labour she would have attempted a vbac. 

I don't get why people don't use the available health care, it is not medeval times and ultrasounds and other tests are things people generations ago would have killed for. I'm not saying don't have home births just at least use qualified medical staff and make sure it's safe. Not saying Joy ignored risks, she seems to have listened to the midwife and went to hospital.

 

[Nikedagain?]

1 minute ago, Crazy Enough to Join said:

But let's stop blaming the Duggar girls for not being able to pop out 9 or 10lb babies and get pregnant the next year with ease to pop out another one.

Did one of us do this? Blame them? Confused...

[Kelsey]

14 hours ago, Someone Out There said:

As a question, is that because you rarely eat beef?  I know that when reintroducing meat from vegetarianism you need to go slowly and eat little bits of it slowly building up tolerance.  That being said, I know that there are some Ticks that can cause allergies to Red Meat (and in some cases dairy as well).

No, I grew up eating beef and stopped at around age 30 when I realized that every time I ate it, my stomach hurt. Now, I'd say I eat beef like 3-5 times per year.

As far as I know, I've never had a tick.

[fluffernutter]

I know a decent amount about birth- just as a doula, no medical training, but I'm surprised that a breech position wouldn't have been caught beforehand. A baby's head usually engages before labor begins with first time babies. And by palpitating the abdomen, they can usually feel the bottom, head, and the back. Even where you can pick up the heart beat can tell how a baby is lying. And yes ok a baby can turn- but I've never heard of a 9 pound baby turn that late?  Has anyone here had a big baby flip mid-labor?  If the midwife had any reason to suspect the position a basic ultrasound could have ruled it out or confirmed it. And I never knew a cnm that would ever attempt a breech at home. Those would be referred to the ob back-up for inversion/c-section. The fact that Jill was assisting raises doubt in my mind as to whether or not Joy was attended by a cnm vrs. a cpm. The cnm's I worked with in home births always had their own assistants. Just my speculations.  I hope they all start leaning towards more conventional births. I'm all for out of hospital births in a low-risk mom, but so many issues have happened with them it just seems like the reasonable thing to do moving forward. I hope Joy and baby are recovering well. 

[SassyPants]

So the more I think about Joy's story, the angrier I get. For all the Duggar talk about leaving conception up to God and babies being such blessings and miracles, how come these 2nd generation women are seeming doing the bare minimum in terms of prenatal and labor/delivery care? Why does it just seem like they are taking the easy way out, yet again?  Would they default to faith? Does having faith mean that you have to refuse to THINK or use your brain to make solid, common sensical decisions?

The only + about all these c-sections is that the total # of live births will decrease- 

You know when JB and M stopped- after having an extremely pre-term infant and a subsequent late term miscarriage- what is it going to take for the 2nd generation Duggars to start getting real {!0 month} prenatal medical care at a medical facility??

[Kailash]

I would like to know how much physical activity the Dugger women do after getting pregnant. It is my theory that keeping active helps keeps extra weight off-except in cases like gestational diabetes. Anna (I realize she’s not genetically a Duggar) has always seemed more active to me. And as each child was born, had by necessity to stay active. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that she’s managed all vaginal births. Obviously just speculation since I don’t monitor the Duggars closely.   

[singsingsing]

27 minutes ago, Nikedagain? said:

Did one of us do this? Blame them? Confused...

Seriously. I was about to post the same thing. Literally no one here is blaming them for not being able to give birth vaginally/with no complications. WTF?

[Shadoewolf]

I watched it (I'll take the peace and quiet of the prayer closet, really!!).

Love that Joy admits to a lot of emotional ups and downs, admits that she is horribly uncomfortable right at the end, and she flat out drops the keeping sweet when they talk about names. She basically says screw what other people think and Austin's like "we can say it nicer than that". 

It certainly looks like Jill was acting in some sort of assistant capacity. She talks about Joy and the baby's vitals being fine, and appears to be helping do something in a very weirdly cropped scene. It's all filmed really weird, actually. Like they're being very careful who they show. But it's not grainy like Jill and Jessa so film crew!

Joe looks completely sweet and supportive of Kendra. She still does the nails on chalkboard giggle but their segment was short. She's got a good sized bump going on!

They flash text that it's an emergency c-section. How do you not know for 20 hours that a baby is breech, unless it's Jill?  My question is, would a big baby like Gideon cause the muscles of the uterine wall to thin more than a 6-7 pounder? 

Just glad he arrived safely and Joy is okay.

[Snarkasarus Rex]

8 minutes ago, Shadoewolf said:

It certainly looks like Jill was acting in some sort of assistant capacity. She talks about Joy and the baby's vitals being fine, and appears to be helping do something in a very weirdly cropped scene. It's all filmed really weird, actually. Like they're being very careful who they show. But it's not grainy like Jill and Jessa so film crew!

 

Teresa Fedosky strikes again?

[FreeCalifornia]

56 minutes ago, Nargus said:

Amen! My close friend’s baby was head down at her 36&38 week appointments, at her 40 week appointment she was breech.

And her midwife referred her to a doctor immediately and her birth center plans became hospital plans right then.  

 

Happened to me. I felt the baby move from head down to breach at 40 weeks 5 days.

My midwife confirmed it and I lost the chance to deliver at the birth center. My baby had an unstable position and was flipping around like crazy! 

It was my longest pregnancy and only one where baby was out of position.

 

[Rachel333]

16 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Seriously. I was about to post the same thing. Literally no one here is blaming them for not being able to give birth vaginally/with no complications. WTF?

I had the same reaction, but I guess there have been quite a few posts suggesting that having huge babies is a result of them not taking care of themselves, and I can see how someone would take that as blaming.

[Knight of Ni]

Post spinal shakes. Is that what I felt after my c-section. I suddenly felt so cold and I’m not one to get cold from air conditioning. I shook uncontrollably for what seemed like a really long time. 

[AliceInFundyland]

 Since there's some thread drift about the seeming inability of these women to get themselves to a hospital..I encourage everyone to check out the current saga of Candy Brauer. 

She's been bleeding for over a month. 

[viii]

Oh wow, a c-section will definitely limit the size of their family. I’m surprised - Joy really had a lot going for her (young, fit, active, genetics) and so I’m surprised it turned out like this for her.  

[luv2laugh]

8 minutes ago, viii said:

Oh wow, a c-section will definitely limit the size of their family. I’m surprised - Joy really had a lot going for her (young, fit, active, genetics) and so I’m surprised it turned out like this for her.  

It was a huge 10 lb baby.  I've been doing research and apparently, if you are laboring naturally and tensing up from the pain, it can stall labor and cause stress on the baby. If she were in the hospital and were open to some pain medication or an epidural, it could have allowed her pelvic muscles to relax  and progress to a possible vaginal delivery.

It could be a blessing in disguise. With as fundie Joy and her husband are, if she had births like Jessa or Anna, she could've ended up with more babies than Michelle since she has started much younger.