Lori Alexander 39: Civilization breaks down because...women

[Koala]

Nice to see that Lori's getting ready swimsuit season (also known as: Lori's adult kids are getting ready to hit the beach, and she doesn't have a damn bit of control over what they wear while they're there).

The simple answer here, is environment.  You dress for the environment you are going into. 

It'd be kind of weird for Lori to go into The Really Super Expensive Organic Food Store in her tankini and board shorts that she's so proud of.  Some men (pretty much ALL fundamentalist) would consider her to be extremely immodest, even on the beach.  

It'd be weird for a woman to go in to the office in a full piece swimsuit.  Why?  You don't wear swimsuits to work.  

Dear lord.  Why on earth does this matter so much to her?  Is Ken really that hard to keep in the fence?  

Look, I am a pushing 40 mom.  My hair is going grey, and I am not as thin as I was when I was 16.  There are always going to be women who are prettier, younger, and thinner.  I don't worry though.  If anything, I think- heh, enjoy it while you've got it, because for most of us, it doesn't last long.  Then I go home with my husband, who loves me just like I am.  And you know what?  He's going bald, and grey in what's left, but every day I look at him and realize that he's even more gorgeous than he was the day I married him.  

THAT'S what Lori and Ken are missing.  In their petty game of one-upmanship, where the end game is to control the other, they've missed real and true love.  The kind that makes you feel head over heels about someone you've been with for 20 years or more.  And you know, that's a shame, but they shouldn't assume that everyone else is as messed up as they are.

My husband doesn't drool over other women.  He just doesn't.  He's a genuinely good guy. 

I don't know what's wrong with Ken, or why Lori worries about making sure he doesn't walk behind the waitress (see: weird, middle of the night modesty "Youtube").  It doesn't matter, because the problem is SO MUCH DEEPER than what the waitress is wearing.  She'd do a lot better, if she'd stop trying to Ken Proof the world, and instead address the very worrisome problem of why they seem to loathe each other so. 

[Fascinated]

My husband and I just spent a few days in Miami. I thought of Lori often .  

ETA to clarify, that’s Lori’s face, not mine.

[BlackSheep]

Modesty? Does she not remember Shorts-gate? IIRC, she was even questioned on her FB about it.

Her post on March 31, 2017:

Spoiler

And then in July 2017, two pics from their vacation surfaced.

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

Lori is free to wear what she wants. But I take issue with her preaching about dressing modestly and then not dressing modestly.

[Hane]

@Koala, the bikini vs. undies pics remind me of a time we were on summer vacation in Newfoundland. It was unusually hot, hitting 93 F, and we had to wait for a boat that was going to take us around the inland fjords. My teenaged daughter and her friend stripped down to their very pretty bikini-looking underwear to go wading. Nobody noticed or cared.

[JillyO]

3 hours ago, foreign fundie said:

I would like to be a bold and confident evangelist, because I wish for everyone in the world to have a chance to hear about Jesus.

Serious question (not meant in a snarky way): Why do you think other people want to hear from you, or any other random person, about Jesus? I can guarantee you that the vast, vast majority of people have in fact heard about him, and if they're not already Christians, then there is a reason for that. Either they already have their own religion, or they choose not to follow a religion. What makes you think you have the right to tell other people that their deeply held beliefs are wrong and yours are right?

Again, my question is 100% serious and I do not mean to be contentious here. While - as I'm sure you have already gathered from my question - I strongly disagree with evangelism, I am honestly interested in your answer (or the answer of anyone else who cares to address my question).

[Fascinated]

Does Lori really want to know why one is underwear and one is a bathing suit?  I posit that it is the non-see-through nature of the bikini when wet. Otherwise they are the same damn thing. 

Thats really all I’ve got on this incredibly interesting post.  Well, maybe one more comment.  Lori must be a tormented and miserable woman.  All of her own doing.  And that’s definitely all I have.

 

[lilwriter85]

4 hours ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

I'm OK with women being considered the help mate (I refuse to say helpmeet because that's stupid).  I'm all for women being able to get an education and work because I live in reality and know that sometimes life sucks and a woman has to to what she has to do. Plus I feel for men having to work 2-3 jobs just to pay for necessities when an able-bodied wife could help.  If a woman is the help mate, then doesn't the man get to decide how he needs her to help?

 

 

4 hours ago, molecule said:

Lori's bitterness, hypocrisy, and lack of compassion are what bug me the most about her. On those occasions when I agree with an overall point she is making, I am horrified by her approach. The only thing she has transformed is God's word into venom.

I agree with both on you on those things. One of the main things that bugs me about Lori is that she had a nanny and housekeeper while being a SAHM, while many of her fangirls are SAHMs who don't have hired help. She has cut down working mothers for having their kids in daycare or with babysitters. Yet, Lori admitted on FB that the nanny held her crying daughter for hours at a time. Lori lacks compassion and obliviously doesn't do shit for churches or charities while saying that churches should support widows for years.

Many of Lori's fangirls  lack compassion for men. Some fangirls talk about their husbands working 2-3 jobs and they don't seem to give a shit about all those jobs taking a toll on their husbands' physical or mental health.

 

[louisa05]

2 hours ago, KDA said:

Can I ask you a question? And it is a genuine question, borne from simply wanting to know, and not a snarky one. If you don't feel comfortable answering, I understand.

Is it standard for Catholics to not read the Bible? Or is this just your personal preference? Do you read other texts instead?

The Catholic Church is not "sola scriptura"--our faith is based on scripture, tradition and the sacraments. The focus is entirely different. When I was converting, I found myself in conversations with evangelical and mainline protestant friends about this (not Episcopal/Anglican or Lutheran people). In my experience (and in my Protestant life I attended Methodist, Presbyterian, Disciples of Christ, Evangelical Free, SBC, and "non-denominational" churches and that's not the full list), those groups, with the emphasis on sola scriptura, tend toward the entire faith, services, etc... being framed around the Bible and little else. 

The Catholic mass, while it includes more Bible readings than I ever heard in a evangelical or mainline church, is not focused on the Bible. The sacrament of the eucharist is the center. The sacraments are almost always the center. The grace found in the sacraments and the works of mercy both corporal and spiritual were the core of what we were taught in Catholic school. The Bible is not at the core. So reading it, analyzing it, trying to find messages in it is not part of Catholic culture or daily life for most of us. 

[Loveday]

Reader:

Quote

We cannot break a child’s will and make it into something else. We are not the Holy Spirit.

 

Lori:

Quote

Oh yes we can! We can break their stubborn and rebellious will and make them want to obey us. They are much happier children when they are obedient instead of rebellious. It benefits them for life.

She says this with such relish. Sickening.

[treehugger]

2 hours ago, louisa05 said:

@Hisey

Other topic: I am a Catholic Christian. I rarely read the Bible. For Lent, I'm reading a commentary on Romans and it includes the text. It will be the most scripture I've read on my own in years when I am done. 

But I'm a convert. I've read the Bible. I've memorized significant portions of it. I won "find the verse the fastest" contests in Sunday School and youth group and got prizes for reciting the books in order. For six years while teaching at Christian school, I was beaten over the head with the Bible on a daily basis. Until I was emotionally black and blue. Nothing I did measured up to the Bible. Except that nothing we were talking about had a damn thing to do with the Bible (kids' penmanship, nail polish colors, catching or not catching gum chewers in class, scheduling drama rehearsals, pollen allergies,...I could keep going). What I learned is that random people interpreting the Bible for their own purposes to control and manipulate others is damn dangerous. And for a long time, I didn't want to have anything to do with the Bible. 

What I strive to do is live the way we are taught in the gospels. That is no easy task and I fail every day. But slogging through a chapter of a random book of the Bible every day is not going to help me do it. What it will do is remind me of that abuse and push me away from my real goal. 

 

 

This resonated with me, and is kind of where I am at right now. I am Anglican (living in Canada), but grew up Reformed (think Ben Seewald Calvinist type). Growing up we memorized large portions of the Bible and I have read it through at least a dozen times from end to end. But my parents raised us to think for ourselves (which ended up backfiring as at least half of my siblings, myself included, no longer subscribe to a Reformed doctrine), and I ended up questioning a lot during my high school years - and ultimately rebelling in a lot of ways. And the Bible was definitely used as a weapon against me. For at least the past 5 years, it has been incredibly triggering to read, and I just haven't done it. I don't really know how to read it not literally (as that was the only way we were taught). I have struggled deeply with my faith, often not sure I believe in anything. But I found the rituals of the Anglican tradition deeply comforting (even though I can't explain why). And I am grateful that I can go there as a very liberal, pro-choice, pro-lgtbi feminist, and not have to feel like I need to give up one or the other. I finally cracked open a Bible yesterday as part of a Lentin devotional, and I am venturing in timidly. It's a bit scary, to be honest. But I am going to try and read it more as a collection of stories and thoughts and less literally.

I cannot imagine proselytizing to anyone, having been on the receiving end too many times myself. I pray multiple times a day, because again, I do find it comforting, but the God I pray to is very different from Lori's god.

[Pammy]

19 minutes ago, JillyO said:

Serious question (not meant in a snarky way): Why do you think other people want to hear from you, or any other random person, about Jesus? I can guarantee you that the vast, vast majority of people have in fact heard about him, and if they're not already Christians, then there is a reason for that. Either they already have their own religion, or they choose not to follow a religion. What makes you think you have the right to tell other people that their deeply held beliefs are wrong and yours are right?

Again, my question is 100% serious and I do not mean to be contentious here. While - as I'm sure you have already gathered from my question - I strongly disagree with evangelism, I am honestly interested in your answer (or the answer of anyone else who cares to address my question).

Lots of people are curious about what others believe, even when they have beliefs of their own.

Sometimes it's for the sake of genuinely getting to know other people -- as in, because friends like to understand each other. Sometimes it's for curiosity: the enjoyment of understanding a new thing about how various people live, think and perceive the world. Sometimes it's because they are thinking about making a change: they hold their own beliefs lightly, or hey haven't made up their mind, or they are worried about something in their worldview that isn't currently working for them. There are a lot of reasons someone might want to be part a conversation about Jesus with someone who believes in him.

Sometimes, given Christianity's reputation and general cultural knowledge, they have enough information to reject ideas about Jesus without chatting with an actual adherent... but sometimes they have a level of interest that a Christian can satisfy.

On the other side of the equation:

Because Christians believe that the darker side human nature places people in afterlife-peril unless they can get Jesus' help with that problem -- naturally, the feeling of "wanting to help" is going to be a part of our lives. Having a positive conversation about Jesus and the Christian beliefs (when it is welcome) is one way that Christians express our desire to help the people around us. (Hopefully it's not the only way we help! There's a lot of more 'useful' things we can also put our time into!)

[BlackSheep]

I'm in the mood for being tedious, so here goes.

#1 isn't acceptable to wear in public because it's designed to be worn under clothing.

• The thin fabric and lacy edge on the bottoms help to avoid lines showing through one's pants. The underwire supports without adding bulk. The formed bra cups optimize the shape of your breasts under your shirt.

#2 is acceptable to wear in public because it's designed for swimming.

• The fabric is stretchy for movement and remains opaque when wet.

They have the same general form but different functions.

Lori sensationalizes topics like these to get clicks and likes and shares. When you break this topic down into its parts, it quickly becomes dull.

[Frog99]

Curious to see how long these comments remain (and I’m still waiting for someone to answer her question about what is difficult about housework- provided you are healthy of course): 

Sorry they are out of order. I can’t figure out how to fix. 

[Fascinated]

1 minute ago, BlackSheep said:

 

They have the same general form but different functions.

 

I have to vehemently disagree with this.  Their function is the same. To defraud Ken.  To cause Ken to lust. To catch Ken’s wandering eye. Not acceptable. Period.  

[feministxtian]

I don't like wearing a bathing suit in public...could have a lot to do with being overweight and hating my body...I can't wait until we have a house with a pool again...then I'll even skinny dip with my Mr. 

[Seahorse Wrangler]

42 minutes ago, BlackSheep said:

Lori sensationalizes topics like these to get clicks and likes and shares. When you break this topic down into its parts, it quickly becomes dull.

Just like Lori, then. Dull.

[samurai_sarah]

3 hours ago, KDA said:

Can I ask you a question? And it is a genuine question, borne from simply wanting to know, and not a snarky one. If you don't feel comfortable answering, I understand.

Is it standard for Catholics to not read the Bible? Or is this just your personal preference? Do you read other texts instead?

It all very much depends. Technically, Catholics are supposed to leave the interpretation of the bible up to the clergy. The interpretation! However, I was born and raised Catholic in Germany, and always read the Bible.

[Free Jana Duggar]

5 hours ago, usmcmom said:

*raising hand now*

Me! Me! I'm a Bible reading Christian. 

I generally read for comfort and for deciding how I should live MY life. I have no time to tell others how to live theirs because I have waaaaayyyy too many issues/sins of my own to work on. The only time I use the Bible to try to prove a point is when I feel others are continually misusing it and tainting Christianity. That, in fact, is what got me to start posting on here - Ken and Lori's gross misinterpretation of scripture that allowed them to use it as a weapon. They like to use the Bible to victimize women. 

I don't know how to say this without humble bragging but here goes. My daughter recently spent a week with one of my dearest friends, who happens to not be a Christian. My friend told my daughter "I know your parents are Christians but they are so accepting and non-judgmental of anything that is different than their beleifs." Someone recently wrote similar words in a letter to me. I share that because I was humbled to realize, at age fifty one, maybe, just maybe I am starting to get it right - m goal as a follower of Christ, I mean.  I still have a ways to go; I know.  

Jesus' teachings are for ME; not to use as a checklist against my friends. I just try to stick to my own beliefs while loving others. Also, I am pro-life but tend be more liberal on other social issues. 

Sorry again about that humble bragging. Please don't call me Cabinet (Wo)man.

I may be completely imagining this, but I think someone at FJ found @Free Jana Duggar's blog and, realizing how conservative she was, suggested she might need to be banned.  Maybe that's why she's worried about getting in trouble. 

Or maybe I was high on cough medicine and that didn't happen. 

DID that happen?!?  I should never have typed this comment but...

submit reply. 

 

I shared the link myself to share a couple posts i wrote on Lori, not remembering some of my other posts.  There was quite a discussion.  I appreciate my FJ peeps. Guess it goes to show people of all beliefs can see Lori for who she is. 

[usmcmom]

Just now, Free Jana Duggar said:

I shared the link myself to share a couple posts i wrote on Lori, not remembering some of my other posts.  There was quite a discussion.  I appreciate my FJ peeps. Guess it goes to show people of all beliefs can see Lori for who she is. 

Thank you for clairfying. Somebody else (sorry I can't remember who) pointed that out to me. I am glad you had shared it yourself; but sorry I had the details wrong. 

[louisa05]

1 hour ago, treehugger said:

This resonated with me, and is kind of where I am at right now. I am Anglican (living in Canada), but grew up Reformed (think Ben Seewald Calvinist type). Growing up we memorized large portions of the Bible and I have read it through at least a dozen times from end to end. But my parents raised us to think for ourselves (which ended up backfiring as at least half of my siblings, myself included, no longer subscribe to a Reformed doctrine), and I ended up questioning a lot during my high school years - and ultimately rebelling in a lot of ways. And the Bible was definitely used as a weapon against me. For at least the past 5 years, it has been incredibly triggering to read, and I just haven't done it. I don't really know how to read it not literally (as that was the only way we were taught). I have struggled deeply with my faith, often not sure I believe in anything. But I found the rituals of the Anglican tradition deeply comforting (even though I can't explain why). And I am grateful that I can go there as a very liberal, pro-choice, pro-lgtbi feminist, and not have to feel like I need to give up one or the other. I finally cracked open a Bible yesterday as part of a Lentin devotional, and I am venturing in timidly. It's a bit scary, to be honest. But I am going to try and read it more as a collection of stories and thoughts and less literally.

I cannot imagine proselytizing to anyone, having been on the receiving end too many times myself. I pray multiple times a day, because again, I do find it comforting, but the God I pray to is very different from Lori's god.

I am feeling pretty timid about my venturing into Romans as all things Pauline were the chief clubs I was beaten with at Christian school. But I have long wanted to understand the Catholic perspective on that book that is in many ways the cornerstone of the Reformation. So I found a Catholic commentary and have decided to read one chapter a day for Lent. It isn't easy. I expect it to be triggering as I get deeper into it, just because the text is there. There are passages from the epistles that bother me when they are read at mass; I find myself cringing in the pew. 

I do not proselytize either. Like you, I have been on the receiving end and still am sometimes. A lot of the evangelicals from my Christian school life still pop up to convert me back. Social media is great for that. Fortunately, it also makes it easy to shut them down---start inviting me to church and sending me links about everything that's wrong with Catholicism and you get unfriended. 

@samurai_sarah My parish actually encourages everyone to read the Bible in a variety of ways. I just cannot do it. Our confirmation kids get a Bible as a gift from the church when they begin their two years of preparation and we encourage them to read it. Our challenge to them for Lent is to pick a gospel and read it through before Easter. We read passages that pertain to our lessons in class. But Catholics are encouraged to not attempt to interpret scripture entirely on their own. I find that perfectly reasonable. And if you read about the history of Christianity, you'll find that the notion that every individual should interpret the Bible for themselves really didn't exist prior to the Second Great Awakening and, not surprisingly, was an American idea--we never fail to champion individualism after all. Luther never propagated the idea at all and still valued educated clergy. There is an excellent work that details that called The Democratization of American Christianity by Nathan O. Hatch. I would highly recommend it to anyone who is curious about how American Protestantism found its way to where we are now. 

 

[Lgirlrocks]

6 hours ago, usmcmom said:

Weird. It is still working for me. Never fear!  Here's the screen shot. 

If you click the link that she has in the article it doesn’t work. It says web page can’t be found

[BlackSheep]

6 hours ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

I'm OK with women being considered the help mate (I refuse to say helpmeet because that's stupid).

That term has always seemed a bit ridiculous to me as well, mostly because I've always thought that it was due to misunderstanding the text.

Quote

Genesis 2:18 - "And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him."

To me, the correct reading of it is "an help [that is] meet for him". That is, a helper that is appropriate for him.

From dictionary.com:

Quote

adjective

1. suitable; fitting; proper.

 

[JillyO]

1 hour ago, Pammy said:

Lots of people are curious about what others believe, even when they have beliefs of their own.

Sometimes it's for the sake of genuinely getting to know other people -- as in, because friends like to understand each other. Sometimes it's for curiosity: the enjoyment of understanding a new thing about how various people live, think and perceive the world. Sometimes it's because they are thinking about making a change: they hold their own beliefs lightly, or hey haven't made up their mind, or they are worried about something in their worldview that isn't currently working for them. There are a lot of reasons someone might want to be part a conversation about Jesus with someone who believes in him.

Sometimes, given Christianity's reputation and general cultural knowledge, they have enough information to reject ideas about Jesus without chatting with an actual adherent... but sometimes they have a level of interest that a Christian can satisfy.

On the other side of the equation:

Because Christians believe that the darker side human nature places people in afterlife-peril unless they can get Jesus' help with that problem -- naturally, the feeling of "wanting to help" is going to be a part of our lives. Having a positive conversation about Jesus and the Christian beliefs (when it is welcome) is one way that Christians express our desire to help the people around us. (Hopefully it's not the only way we help! There's a lot of more 'useful' things we can also put our time into!)

Thanks for the reply, but that doesn't really answer my question. Of course people can have discussions about Jesus or Christianity even when one of them has other beliefs. Especially if the non-Christian has a question that the Christian then answers. That's not really what I consider evangelism though. Evangelism - from what I understand - is going out into the world and telling people about Jesus Christ with the intention of converting people. Having been at the receiving end of it several times (though surely not nearly as often as some of our other posters here!!) I find this behavior to be highly annoying, and I am curious to learn how some of our posters who engage in evangelism justify this.

[cindyluvs24]

I thought God chose your husband.......

[Fascinated]

1 hour ago, Pammy said:

Having a positive conversation about Jesus and the Christian beliefs (when it is welcome) is one way that Christians express our desire to help the people around us. 

This stands out to me. I, too, have a dislike of evangelism. The idea expressed here is that having a positive conversation about Jesus will ‘help’ me.  In other words, Christianity is better.  I truly don’t mean to be rude, but, can you see how this is insulting to those who don’t believe as Christians do?  I never attempt to ‘convert’ anyone to atheism beacause I respect their decision to believe what they do. Evangelical Christians do not show me the same respect.