Lori Alexander 39: Civilization breaks down because...women

[Jenn43]

On 2/14/2018 at 11:11 PM, Fascinated said:

Thanks, @feministxtian,  I have definitely noticed that you aren’t averse to using profanity, which I love about you  .  Seriously, thanks for your reply. I really am curious about this because, as I said, I can’t always tell how much religion plays a part in actual daily life, as opposed to some people’s online presence.  When I read Lori, for example, there ansol7is nothing unrelated to her beliefs. I always wonder if that is how she (and so many others) is in her daily life, or whether it is just when she is ‘teaching’ us women online. Does she ever think of, or talk about, anything else?  

I too, am a Christian, but not like Lori.  The whole crux of my personal faith, is LOVE! Love is what brought Jesus down to die for us.  Lori is a CINO(Christian in Name Only).  One cannot have a personal faith in Jesus, and spout some of the things she says!  Her Christianity is a list of do's and don'ts and if you keep these "terms" everything in your life will be roses and chocolates! That isn't what my faith is.  It's relationships.  Honestly, I don't think Lori knows how relationships work.  They are give and take, compromise.  If something isn't working it's not because you are or aren't doing xyz correctly, that is just the way life is.  I don't go around prozelitzing in my life, but if someone asks about my faith, I will share it.  I'm not opposed to using profanity either.     

 

Also--my kids are proof that homeschooling works sometimes!! I have 3 older kids that graduated from homeschool.  One is a Sargent in the Army, the second in nursing school, and the third in design school.  My 4th son, 19 years, has no diploma, no GED, just a job.  He chose to drop out of school and go his own way.  He is very rebellious, but we love him.  He has chosen to move out of our home and we respect his choices.  Do I wish he would go back to school? Yes.  But just because you homeschool, doesn't mean all your kids will turn out great.  He is still young, and I know God has a plan for him, so I keep praying!  My two youngest are in 8th grade at public school and doing very well.  I think you try to raise your kids the best you can, and when they get older, they have to make their own choices. 

 

Didn't mean to write a book.  Lori frustrates me so much!!!!!! 

[delphinium65]

If Lori is right (which I don't believe for a moment, but I'll play her game), and women are more easily deceived...why exactly is that?  Is that just the way God made women? A design flaw on his part? Did God screw up when he made women? If a woman is more easily deceived, and she is in fact deceived about <insert issue here>, isn't that God's fault for making her that way?  

[JillyO]

Until very recently, I lived in Berlin, and I worked extensively with recently arrived refugees. Many of them became my friends. So I have friends who grew up in Syria, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Algeria, etc. I have known them since shortly after they arrived in Germany. Some of them grew up in cities, some of them grew up in mountain villages. You know what? They had all heard of Jesus. You know what else? Not one of them had any desire whatsoever to become a Christian. Shocking, I know. Most of them are more or less devout Muslims. Some of them have no faith and are Muslim in cultural tradition only. But not one of them wanted to become a Christian. And they certainly wouldn't have appreciated white Americans or Europeans coming to their homes to preach at them about Jesus. And by the way, as choralcrusader said, the Internet is a thing. All of these people have it. If they wanted to know about Jesus, they'd google him.

[Jenn43]

On 2/15/2018 at 2:15 PM, Free Jana Duggar said:

I read my Bible and pray everyday. I may get in trouble for saying this on here, but I do agree with some of the principles Lori teaches. i tend to lean to the conservative right on the controversial issues.  My problem with Lori is her extremism and her hateful attitude.  I can't stand her praise for the Pearls. Hitting infants and flicking the cheeks of nursing babies is awful, but yea I did swat my kids on the behind when they were old enough to know better. 

I get that there are verses in the Bible that indicate women should not be in leadership over a man in church. My husband is an SBC pastor, and does not ordain women, but he is fine with women speaking. I've even given the sermon once in his absence and another for Mother's Day.  He takes those passages not as an insult to women, but instructing the men to do their job. Meaning if the women step up and lead, the men will sit back and do nothing, so really it's an admonition to the men to have to be told to do their job.  That's just one interpretation I've heard.  

I do consider him the head of our home, but he does not feel the need to control my every move or put his two cents into everything.  Me submitting doesn't come up much at all.  The last thing I remember "submitting" on was he felt I needed to wait to get my car painted until we had some more savings. Not a problem, I waited. Our agreement is if we are spending more that $100, we need to check with each other. 

I'm OK with women being considered the help mate (I refuse to say helpmeet because that's stupid).  I'm all for women being able to get an education and work because I live in reality and know that sometimes life sucks and a woman has to to what she has to do. Plus I feel for men having to work 2-3 jobs just to pay for necessities when an able-bodied wife could help.  If a woman is the help mate, then doesn't the man get to decide how he needs her to help?

OK, sorry for the ramble (back on topic now). I do read my Bible and pray daily and just try to remember "What Would Jesus Do?" and live accordingly. 

Can I be your bestie??? 

[SuperNova]

1 hour ago, louisa05 said:

I very clearly stated that if you are an atheist and a rational adult, I will presume that you have carefully made your own choice and respect that.

 

18 hours ago, louisa05 said:

And that's when I choke back the vomit and leave. 

How do you know what kind of relationship with God every person you talk to has? Those kinds of statements strike me as so terribly presumptive.

Am I missing something here? Why is it ok for you to make presumptions but not someone else? There's nowhere to go in this conversation so I'm dropping it. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

@foreign fundie 

Why the fuck should people hear about your religion? The fact that you belive in it is no reason to have other people to listen to it. Can't you manage enough respect for other people's culture and beliefs (or lack thereof) to not interfere with them?

Can't you see your enormous condescension towards "those people who never heard about Jesus"? Why should they spend one second listening to YOUR beliefs only because YOU hold them dearly? Can you see how this revolves all around YOU? YOUR beliefs, that make YOU feel good, that in YOUR opinion are they right ones, the saving ones. 

As for the great values of the Western World, please remind me how Christianity brought us democracy, equality, respect for other cultures, respect for who is different, respect for minorities. Cos it didn't. God ordained sovereigns ruled. Poors and women were chattel. Foreign cultures were conquered, submitted, enslaved and converted.

I may agree that Jesus words are words of love and respect, but you have to note that Christianity failed to see it for many centuries and only with humanist philosophers from Renaissance to nowadays things started to improve. Many of those philosophers walked far away from Churches' teachings before the churches started to recognise that there was truth in their ideas. 

And now Christianity claims to be the source of all what is good in our culture. It's so hypocritical and fake.

[Fascinated]

20 minutes ago, Carol said:

 

 11 minutes ago,  Carol said: 

"Also faith is an inner conviction which cannot be forced from the outside. It is not what Jesus taught. He always gave people freedom to believe or not. But from my perspective there are vast numbers of people that have never heard and some or maybe many of them may very well want to follow Jesus if they only knew about his message".

How did this quote show up as, "Carol said".  I didn't say that, I feel totally the opposite.  

Oh!  I’m sorry. I didn’t even notice that when I posted. No. I was not quoting you, Carol.  Sorry about that.  

[Destiny]

I feel like this is relevant:

[Carol]

22 minutes ago, Fascinated said:

Oh!  I’m sorry. I didn’t even notice that when I posted. No. I was not quoting you, Carol.  Sorry about that.  

No problem, I was pretty sure you didn't notice it.  Sounds like we have a wonky quoting system.  I actually felt nauseated thinking some here would read it and think I said it.

As I said before, I waver in my beliefs but, I am deeply grateful for Humanists, Free-Thinkers, Atheists, Agnostics, Freedom From Religion Foundation, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens...people who value science over religion, facts over faith.

They make me think.  It's up to me to decide where to go with it. 

[Free Jana Duggar]

 

I thought Penn Jillette had an interesting view on Christians evangelizing.  He  said something to the effect of if you truly believe someone is going to hell and don't warn them, you don't care about  them. He is an atheist, but respects Christians for showing they care when they truly believe your soul is in jeopardy.

https://churchpop.com/2016/01/16/atheist-penn-jillette-christians-evangelize/

[dairyfreelife]

Oh, for fucks sake, Hindus are well aware of Christianity. Evangelicals have and still exist in India. Some people converted, but most people did not and have not. They have heard about your religion. They are happy with theirs. My bf's parents are Hindus, from India. They have mentioned hearing about Christianity and feel quite negative about the Christians who come in and try to convert them. The only place that may have not heard much about Christianity might be North Korea as they are very isolated, but I think North Korea has bigger issues than simply not being Christian. As for China, Buddhism and other non-Christian religions does not = Atheism. I would need to see proof on your statistic that millions of Chinese are converting to Christianity every year though in a country of 1.2 Billion, that's not really a lot. 

A bigger issue I see is the assumption that they all NEED your religion. That their religion isn't good enough. Most Muslim dominated countries are not that isolated. They still have access to TV, other people from other countries. I mean, the UAE is home to Air Emirates, a massive airline with a hub city for many travelers across the globe. I have known engineers from the US live in places like Saudi Arabia for a time and they were Christians. These people are not that isolated. You would be hard-pressed in this day and age to actually find someone who hasn't heard of Christianity or Jesus. 

*Note, I don't see any issue sharing how your faith helps you when someone else is struggling. I also, as an atheist, don't have an issue with someone saying they keep me or my family in their prayers in a bad situation like serious illness or loss. The person in question is well meaning and I see it on the level of, hey, I'm thinking about you. I only have an issue when it's forced on others and made to presume or assume another's religion. If religion comes up in a conversation, then it's invited either way with any religion to share beliefs, but random people shouting at you in the streets handing you chick tracts or knocking at your door to "share" (convert) you to their religion is not so much. 

[Beermeet]

 When I am approached on the street or even worse at my home, I think and feel this:

1.  The evangelist assumes I am not Christian ( I am not but we are strangers so they do not know this).   Just randomly decides this. It's intrusive and rude.  

2. That the evangelist thinks they have *it* all figured out and knows what is best for me spiritually.   They do not.

3. The evangelist, in order to feel better than me or that they are doing their Christian duty so they can feel better about themselves and get head pats from their chuch, is not my problem.  Don't try and use me for this.  I'm happily busy, go away.

4.  The evangelist will never bother to listen to my views but, I should listen to theirs.

5. No one likes to be out and about doing their thang and have self proclaimed Jesus freaks yelling at them how we are all hell bound.  Um, no.  That's the evangelists view, period.  Go find something better to do and leave everyone else alone.  

6. Yes, we've all heard about Jesus.   Believe it or not evangelist,  not everyone wants to be a Christian.  Accept it and focus on yourself.  Your religious view is not THE Way.  I respect their faith, respect mine.  Nothing the evangelist says can sway me.  And, no, there is nothing wrong with me, I'm fine thanks.  Satan does not have a hold on me. Don't be weird and dramatic.

[DaisyD]

2 hours ago, foreign fundie said:

Thank you for kindly defending my right to answer your question Although I can understand the    harsh responses as well, given the bad experiences people have had with evangelism. And I am really sorry for these instances where people have felt exploited or manipulated. 

As for nearly everyone in the world having heard the gospel and just not wanting it, I respectfully disagree. Throughout the Middle East conversion to Christianity is illegal and converts are often persecuted and even killed. Who would tell these people about the gospel? Evangelism has been illegal for a long time and generations come and go without ever hearing it. Bibles are often forbidden for Muslims in Muslim majority nations. Saudi Arabia does not have one indigenous church. Where would Saudis hear the gospel? In North Korea Bible possession is punishable by prison camp or death. Where would North Koreans hear the gospel? What about millions of illiterate rural Indians and Pakistanis. Not everyone goes to school where they may hear Jesus mentioned. There are vast regions throughout Asia without any church. And hundreds of languages that have no Bible translation. We don’t really know if they want to believe the message of Jesus and follow Him until they hear who he is.

In China a million people become Christians every year, when they hear about Jesus through other Chinese Christians. The Atheism they were taught didn’t cut it for them. They convert even though in China you will be looked down upon or worse. In Iran Christianity grows fast, with many becoming believers through dreams about Jesus. They risk everything to leave Islam. And they beg believers abroad to tell them more and send them Bibles. Internet ministries get tens of thousands of requests for Bible courses in counties where the government opposes Christianity.  They want to hear, they actively look for someone to tell them.

So yes, these days in most countries there are churches, but that doesn’t mean that everyone has heard the gospel or that everyone who is now Muslim or Hindu is that because they want to. Many have never had an alternative. 

And full religious freedom is not a thing in many populous countries. People may want to convert but not dare to. 

So yes, I agree that a person who hears of Jesus and does not want to believe in him should not be bothered or pushed. Forcing religion on people is always wrong. Also faith is an inner conviction which cannot be forced from the outside. It is not what Jesus taught. He always gave people freedom to believe or not. But from my perspective there are vast numbers of people that have never heard and some or maybe many of them may very well want to follow Jesus if they only knew about his message.

 

Ignoring, for a moment, the fact that the prophet Jesus is mentioned many times in the Quaran. What gives you the right to go to a country specifically to break the laws of that country? If converting is illegal and carries a death sentence then you are advocating for endangering people so you can make them martyrs for your cause. 

Other than the extreme condescension in your belief that many people actually want to convert but can't (you're going to have to site a source that isn't a religious propaganda piece before I ever buy that), what you seem to be proposing is extremely reckless and dangerous.

[Fascinated]

24 minutes ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

 

I thought Penn Jillette had an interesting view on Christians evangelizing.  He  said something to the effect of if you truly believe someone is going to hell and don't warn them, you don't care about  them. He is an atheist, but respects Christians for showing they care when they truly believe your soul is in jeopardy.

https://churchpop.com/2016/01/16/atheist-penn-jillette-christians-evangelize/

I have read this before and it always surprises me. I like much of what he has to say on the subject but on this I disagree with him. Others here have stated that they understand that prayers and attempts at conversion are said ‘with love’ or fear for my soul.  I’m sorry, but my reaction is just to be pissed off. Partly for all the reasons stated above but also because I basically have to remain mute about my beliefs, for fear of offending. They can insinuate that I am going to spend eternity in hell but I never feel I can tell them that I think they are utterly deluded or that it is my belief that they are in for a big disappointment. It’s frustrating as hell. 

My fear is that many ardent Christians spend so much time worrying about eternity, that they forget to live this life.  That’s why I asked my original question about how much of your lives you guys devote to your religion/beliefs.  Just looking at Lori’s posts, I wonder if that is literally all she thinks about.

[Curious]

On 2/15/2018 at 2:10 PM, AuntKrazy said:

I question more why someone who does not have faith would want to go to heaven (which I think of as a place of unending worship of Jesus) if they did not choose to worship him on earth than anything else.

I have never thought heaven sounded that great, even as a practicing Catholic.  It seems like it would be super boring and I'd be stuck with a bunch of people that think they are superior because of their religiosity.

If people like Lori are going to heaven, I'll take anywhere else, thanks

Personally, I want to go to the Rainbow Bridge and hang out with all the pets.  I was actually quite disappointed when I died and none of my past pets came to meet me.  I console myself with thinking I wasn't dead long enough for them to meet me and when my final...final time comes there will be a whole pack of dogs, cats, hamsters, etc just waiting to run freely in fields of flowers, all of us healed and ready for an eternity of fun together.

[feministxtian]

5 minutes ago, Fascinated said:

My fear is that many ardent Christians spend so much time worrying about eternity, that they forget to live this life.  That’s why I asked my original question about how much of your lives you guys devote to your religion/beliefs.  Just looking at Lori’s posts, I wonder if that is literally all she thinks about.

There's a saying attributed to good Baptist Southern grandmas..."that boy is so heavenly minded, he's no earthly good". 

[JillyO]

5 minutes ago, Curious said:

Personally, I want to go to the Rainbow Bridge and hang out with all the pets.  I was actually quite disappointed when I died and none of my past pets came to meet me.  I console myself with thinking I wasn't dead long enough for them to meet me and when my final...final time comes there will be a whole pack of dogs, cats, hamsters, etc just waiting to run freely in fields of flowers, all of us healed and ready for an eternity of fun together.

Sounds good to me! Where do I sign up?

[DaisyD]

9 minutes ago, Fascinated said:

I have read this before and it always surprises me. I like much of what he has to say on the subject but on this I disagree with him. Others here have stated that they understand that prayers and attempts at conversion are said ‘with love’ or fear for my soul.  I’m sorry, but my reaction is just to be pissed off. Partly for all the reasons stated above but also because I basically have to remain mute about my beliefs, for fear of offending. They can insinuate that I am going to spend eternity in hell but I never feel I can tell them that I think they are utterly deluded or that it is my belief that they are in for a big disappointment. It’s frustrating as hell. 

My fear is that many ardent Christians spend so much time worrying about eternity, that they forget to live this life.  That’s why I asked my original question about how much of your lives you guys devote to your religion/beliefs.  Just looking at Lori’s posts, I wonder if that is literally all she thinks about.

The 3rd time the Baptists across the street came to proselytize they actually walked through my open back door without permission. I told them I worshipped the devil so they'd never come back. It worked beautifully. I think I've stopped getting Mormon missionaries because they left my house questioning things. I've only ever held conversations, but I was raised in a family of rabid atheists. I know how to argue the bible. I'm pretty much a deist these days, but if you want to disturb my privacy to sell me your religion, I'm going to do my best to make you think twice next time.

[dairyfreelife]

11 minutes ago, Curious said:

I was actually quite disappointed when I died and none of my past pets came to meet me.  I console myself with thinking I wasn't dead long enough for them to meet me and when my final...final time comes there will be a whole pack of dogs, cats, hamsters, etc just waiting to run freely in fields of flowers, all of us healed and ready for an eternity of fun together.

Now that sounds like true heaven if one ever exists. 

[feministxtian]

1 minute ago, DaisyD said:

but if you want to disturb my privacy to sell me your religion, I'm going to do my best to make you think twice next time.

You and me both! I live in a sort of "low rent" neighborhood so we get EVERYONE through here...Mormons, JWs, local non-denom whack jobs. I don't let them in the house and have great fun with them outside

[louisa05]

2 hours ago, slp said:

Louisa05,

That was a terrible thing for that woman to do and in no way Christian.  I am so sorry someone said that to you.  I 'know Jesus' and I knew Jesus when my mother died, and I grieved hard, and still grieve for her.  I knew Him when my ex husband left and I grieved that too.  That is absolutely NOT what I meant at all.   I would never think that if you know Jesus you aren't sad, or don't grieve.  He just gives me strength to make  it through the hard time, He doesn't make me not be sad or not grieve.  The bible says He is our comforter, and that would be all I was trying to share. 

At one point, a friend (who is atheist) experienced a loss.  I had helped physically, but the friend was going through a rough emotional turmoil as well, and I shared about my experience with loss and asked if I could share what helped, but I did tell her  that it involved God and I understood if she'd rather I didn't share that. She allowed me to share with her the verse from the Bible that helped me and thanked me.  I wasn't trying to 'convert' her.  I honestly just wanted to help her in any way I could.  

So you just did it. Do you see that? You say in one sentence that no one should act like their faith is the only answer especially when speaking to a grieving person. Then you proceeded to explain to me (ANOTHER CHRISTIAN FFS) how Jesus helps grief. You literally just did what I'm talking about: "let me tell you how my Christianity works". 

[crawfishgirl]

A while back, I watched a documentary about Dayna Curry and Heather Mercer - they were two aid workers working in Afghanistan in 2001 (I believe they were sponsored through a church).  Afghanistan forbade the teaching of Christianity, and they were fully aware of it.  However, they decided to evangelize anyway, and were arrested, along with a few others.  Then-President Bush had to send the US Special Forces to rescue them, and they were greeted like heroes at home, and were invited to the White House.  They were interviewed in the documentary, and they didn't see any problem with their actions.

Personally, I was disgusted.  They knowingly went to another country and illegally encouraged Christianity, and then expected the govt to rescue them.  People could have been killed due to their actions, including during their military rescue.  I was also saddened that they were treated like heroes here - their actions were knowingly illegal, not heroic.  They knew it was a criminal offense, but they just didn't care how their actions could impact others.  

Here are a couple of articles about them:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/decemberweb-only/22.0.html

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/people/shows/curry.mercer/profile.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayna_Curry

https://www.amazon.com/Prisoners-Hope-Captivity-Freedom-Afghanistan/dp/1578566460

[Seahorse Wrangler]

27 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

You and me both! I live in a sort of "low rent" neighborhood so we get EVERYONE through here...Mormons, JWs, local non-denom whack jobs. I don't let them in the house and have great fun with them outside

Sorry, No. Yes it's -30C. You're still not coming into the house.

 

I have no problem leaving them outside. They came to me. I didn't invite them.

[Denim Jumper]

57 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

 When I am approached on the street or even worse at my home, I think and feel this:

1.  The evangelist assumes I am not Christian ( I am not but we are strangers so they do not know this).   Just randomly decides this. It's intrusive and rude.  

2. That the evangelist thinks they have *it* all figured out and knows what is best for me spiritually.   They do not.

3. The evangelist, in order to feel better than me or that they are doing their Christian duty so they can feel better about themselves and get head pats from their chuch, is not my problem.  Don't try and use me for this.  I'm happily busy, go away.

4.  The evangelist will never bother to listen to my views but, I should listen to theirs.

5. No one likes to be out and about doing their thang and have self proclaimed Jesus freaks yelling at them how we are all hell bound.  Um, no.  That's the evangelists view, period.  Go find something better to do and leave everyone else alone.  

6. Yes, we've all heard about Jesus.   Believe it or not evangelist,  not everyone wants to be a Christian.  Accept it and focus on yourself.  Your religious view is not THE Way.  I respect their faith, respect mine.  Nothing the evangelist says can sway me.  And, no, there is nothing wrong with me, I'm fine thanks.  Satan does not have a hold on me. Don't be weird and dramatic.

#2, especially. I’ve come to realize that I don’t proselytize or “witness” because I’m not entirely sure of anything, when it comes to Christianity. Growing up atheist, none of this comes naturally to me; ironic that I ended up marrying a would-be fundie-lite pastor, who ended up leaving that scene for a liberal, mainline denomination. The Quaker faith ended up being the best fit for me, although I attended Catholic mass quite often, because I truly enjoy it and feel a Spiritual presence during mass.  

[Cleopatra7]

I think that many North Koreans (especially the older ones) do have some knowledge of Christianity, since the Korean Peninsula was the only place in East Asia where Christianity really took hold. Kim Il Sung, the founder of NK, was raised in a Presbyterian household and went to missionary schools as a child. Rank and file North Koreans probably have some idea about Christianity even if it’s disorted through a nationalist lens. I would think that many of them are also aware of relatives in the South who are Christian, even if they have never met them. The only people I can think of who might really have no idea who Jesus is might be some super isolated tribe in the Amazon or India, and even they are rare these days.