Lori Alexander 39: Civilization breaks down because...women

[Curious]

8 hours ago, louisa05 said:

That must be hard.

I would much rather be asked if I want to hear about someone's relationship with god with the ability to say no thank you than have someone say something like "that must be hard" to me.  Even when I know people mean well, it always comes off sounding sarcastic to me.

Different strokes and all...

[EowynW]

1 hour ago, Curious said:

Before my mom married my (step)dad, I went to a Methodist church with my grandma.  I have very fond memories of it and if I were to ever decide that I believed (I vacillate between thinking I'm agnostic and atheist.  Sometimes I think I'm just scared to say I'm atheist.  Sometimes I think I believe in some kind of higher power, not necessarily the Christian God exactly) I would go back to the Methodist church.

I was an only child so I was often taken to "adult" events and was the only child there.  I loved when the church ladies got together and did baking or crafts.  Pot lucks at the church are very fond memories, as well.

I hope you find what you are looking for there EowynW

 

I think it was last year, in the comments on a post on the Wartburg Watch, after the recent election, some said something along the lines of "I believe in Jesus & His love but I'm rather agnostic about the rest of this Christian stuff these days." I admit this is how I feel these days. Atleast about the way Christianity is in our culture here. 

This tiny Methodist church has been healing for both of us. It's a 50/50 split of Liberal Democrat & Republican, no politics are ever preached, no guilt trips or hellfire and they are very active in service in our town in many ways and charities. Right now it feels right for us. 

[Cleopatra7]

@Curious I read Dante’s Paradiso for a class on Medieval Christianity, and he made it seem like the most boring place imaginable (unintentionally of course). I guess that’s inevitable when he put all of the interesting people in hell. Why spend all of eternity hanging around Dominic the Grand Inquisitor or the OCD “rolling in thorns to fight off lust”  iteration of Francis of Assisi when you could hang with Socrates and Plato in the ring of hell reserved for pagan philosophers or Paris from the Iliad? Something that also annoyed me about Dante’s version of the afterlife is the question how can fictional characters from Greco-Roman mythology co-exist as historical characters with characters from the Bible? Because if the Greco-Roman myths are part of a false religion, as Dante no doubt believed, then it seems impossible for Paris, Dido, Achilles, etc. to also exist in this same universe. I get that Renaissance artists mixed and matched from different sources but the continuity doesn’t fit.

[Curious]

1 hour ago, Sarah92 said:

With the recent back and forth I've hesitated to post because I feel like the respect I've seen over the past few months of being here has broken down to a degree. However, that could just be my conflict avoidant nature, I don't like fighting or conflict at all. So it's probably just my problem and I could totally just be over analyzing it. So please forgive me if I am.

This is nothing.  If you want to see what a real FJ fight looks like start a thread about banning peanut butter from schools or wearing shoes in the house.   It will be on the second thread before you get up tomorrow.  Also, please test this is no holds barred

[Jellybean]

I am seen as a fair target for evangelists because it is apparent, even from a distance, that my body is broken and damaged. Disabilities provoke lots of different reactions in those that I meet, most of whom don’t recognise me as being just another human; just like them.

Many people are afraid of pain, immobility, progressive medical conditions, and of dying young. It’s easier to view me as ‘inspirational’ or ‘incredibly brave’ because they don’t want to believe that I’m just like them, but in an uncomfortable situation. People tell me that they couldn’t cope with my life; they would rather die than use a wheelchair or have a feeding tube. 

Before my body started to fall apart, I might have had similar thoughts, but I have found that my life still has so much value - light and love and laughter - despite all the medical stuff that I need to keep my body on track.

This is my rather long-winded way to say that I understand why people feel that I need to be ‘saved’ and that knowledge of their god would bring some comfort to me, amidst the obvious suffering. They don’t see value in my life, and are offering a solution to the problems that they see. I find it hurtful that my life is seen as so worthless; patronising that complete strangers think that my suffering is so urgent that they can’t possibly stay silent.

Except that I am grateful for my life. I am happy as an atheist, happy with my life partner, grateful for good friends and family members. Those who need to tell me about their gods are doing so because they can only see their own prejudices - my life is not worth living without faith in their deity and/or healing from my medical conditions. 

Please don’t project your own fears onto me. 

My life matters, just as it is.

I matter, just as I am. 

 

[Destiny]

1 hour ago, Curious said:

This is nothing.  If you want to see what a real FJ fight looks like start a thread about banning peanut butter from schools or wearing shoes in the house.   It will be on the second thread before you get up tomorrow.  Also, please test this is no holds barred

So help me C, if you start a peanut butter war, I'll ... I don't know what I will do, but it will be DRASTIC. ;-p

[feministxtian]

can we just have a nice discussion about nail polish? You know, gel vs. enamel sort of discussion? Or maybe a discussion of acrylic paints vs. watercolors? Or how about long, lean and luscious husbands? 

[Carol]

19 minutes ago, Jellybean said:

I am seen as a fair target for evangelists because it is apparent, even from a distance, that my body is broken and damaged. Disabilities provoke lots of different reactions in those that I meet, most of whom don’t recognise me as being just another human; just like them.

Many people are afraid of pain, immobility, progressive medical conditions, and of dying young. It’s easier to view me as ‘inspirational’ or ‘incredibly brave’ because they don’t want to believe that I’m just like them, but in an uncomfortable situation. People tell me that they couldn’t cope with my life; they would rather die than use a wheelchair or have a feeding tube. 

Before my body started to fall apart, I might have had similar thoughts, but I have found that my life still has so much value - light and love and laughter - despite all the medical stuff that I need to keep my body on track.

This is my rather long-winded way to say that I understand why people feel that I need to be ‘saved’ and that knowledge of their god would bring some comfort to me, amidst the obvious suffering. They don’t see value in my life, and are offering a solution to the problems that they see. I find it hurtful that my life is seen as so worthless; patronising that complete strangers think that my suffering is so urgent that they can’t possibly stay silent.

Except that I am grateful for my life. I am happy as an atheist, happy with my life partner, grateful for good friends and family members. Those who need to tell me about their gods are doing so because they can only see their own prejudices - my life is not worth living without faith in their deity and/or healing from my medical conditions. 

Please don’t project your own fears onto me. 

My life matters, just as it is.

I matter, just as I am. 

 

After a week of horror your post revived my spirit.  Thank you.

[feministxtian]

21 minutes ago, Jellybean said:

I am seen as a fair target for evangelists because it is apparent, even from a distance, that my body is broken and damaged. Disabilities provoke lots of different reactions in those that I meet, most of whom don’t recognise me as being just another human; just like them.

Umm...I'm one of those horrible people who wouldn't evangelize at you but I might say totally inappropriate things. A very good friend of mine is an achondroplastic dwarf with osteogenesis imperfecta. IOW, bubba is a mess. He's also funny as hell, irreverent as hell, and used to follow me around the college commons fake drooling b/c in his chair, he was at eye level to my backside. We were at the big theme park near my hometown and I was bitching that my feet hurt...D had something to say about that and loudly announced that his ass hurt...I think I told him that his ass was hurting me too b/c he was one all over...then we went in the Festhaus and got smashingly drunk! 

Your body may be jacked up, but your mind is just fine (well, you may be a wee bit twisted as you hang out here on FJ)...I'm a sick sense of humored bitch...but that's because laughing is always better than crying, and laughing until you cry is the BEST!

[Sarah92]

2 hours ago, Curious said:

This is nothing.  If you want to see what a real FJ fight looks like start a thread about banning peanut butter from schools or wearing shoes in the house.   It will be on the second thread before you get up tomorrow.  Also, please test this is no holds barred

No no my conflict avoidant self will say no to that. I'm staying away from the great peanut butter debate lol. I feel like it would be that "is it a white dress or a blue dress" debate all over again. 

[Destiny]

24 minutes ago, Sarah92 said:

No no my conflict avoidant self will say no to that. I'm staying away from the great peanut butter debate lol. I feel like it would be that "is it a white dress or a blue dress" debate all over again. 

So. Much. Worse. LOL

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

41 minutes ago, Sarah92 said:

No no my conflict avoidant self will say no to that. I'm staying away from the great peanut butter debate lol. I feel like it would be that "is it a white dress or a blue dress" debate all over again. 

 

16 minutes ago, Destiny said:

So. Much. Worse. LOL

The funny thing is that the peanut butter thread in No Holds Barred doesn't have much arguing. No one who wanted to fight to the death about ground legumes commented there, IIRC. When I read it, I just ended up hungry for things like cinnamon toast. 

I've noticed that about thread drift sometimes; whether it's a fun drift or an angry one, when it gets moved to its very own thread, it often tends to die out after a bit. Only a few posters bother to follow it to its new spot. Some folks only frequent a few threads or forums, I guess?

[Petronella]

10 hours ago, louisa05 said:

So you just did it. Do you see that? You say in one sentence that no one should act like their faith is the only answer especially when speaking to a grieving person. Then you proceeded to explain to me (ANOTHER CHRISTIAN FFS) how Jesus helps grief. You literally just did what I'm talking about: "let me tell you how my Christianity works". 

Clearly your past experiences makes that a painful thing for you to hear, but it doesn't seem fair to say that it is, on its own, a cruel thing to say to anyone. She's offering a suggestion from her own experience of what has helped her, and offering it within the context of a personal relationship and other forms of support. Similarly, a friend of mine suggests oils/tinctures that I don't find very relevant to what I'm going through, but she's doing so out of kindness and from her personal experience. I appreciate her.

I think a distinction is that I wouldn't appreciate here if she were trying to SELL me a product. Similarly, if someone is sharing a verse that has helped them with the goal of WINNING your soul, that is offensive. But a friend brainstorming with a friend from their own experiences seems both kind and normal to me.

It seems very similar to any recommendation, like yoga for a bad back, a certain kind of therapy, a helpful book.... Someone offering their experience humbly, as a *possible* comfort to consider, seems nice to me. Where it becomes bad is when it's presented as the only way, or as criticism, or from on high rather than peer-to-peer, or from someone with no comparable experience who is underestimating the depth of difficulty. That would be disrespectful and not at all okay. But I don't think that's what she's describing.

[Petronella]

5 hours ago, Curious said:

I would much rather be asked if I want to hear about someone's relationship with god with the ability to say no thank you than have someone say something like "that must be hard" to me.  Even when I know people mean well, it always comes off sounding sarcastic to me.

Different strokes and all...

Yeah, I think the context in which it's helpful is when someone feels like they're not supposed to "complain", or should be "over it" by now, or just feel like they're not allowed to reveal or "dwell on" their negative emotions. It's an invitation to be candid about a hard situation, and I've seen and experienced that phrase as a comfort many times.

But if one is in a different situation, such as trying very hard to hold their feelings in check for their own reasons (not someone else's expectations), or someone who feels like their difficult situation is defining them, or, well, any other reason, it wouldn't be what you want to hear.

I guess the key is trying one's best, and being forgiving of others trying their best (and walking away from people who are being controlling rather than kind!).

[Koala]

7 hours ago, Curious said:

The only person that seems to be peeping in windows is LORI.  Since she seems to think this is a negative thing, it makes me question why she does it and then posts about it on top of that.

Yes, exactly!  

Lori says:

Quote

Can you imagine peeking into the window of a neighbor...

No, Lori.  I can't.  I certainly can't. You on the other hand, should be able to imagine it well...

Here's a reminder of your willingness to waltz into another county, and brashly invade their privacy. 

A mere 21 days later, you did the same thing to the owner of this home.

The good news?  I don't think we're a "nation of peeping toms".  You're the only person I've ever seen do something so crass.

[Koala]

11 hours ago, Curious said:

I have never thought heaven sounded that great, even as a practicing Catholic.  It seems like it would be super boring and I'd be stuck with a bunch of people that think they are superior because of their religiosity.

If people like Lori are going to heaven, I'll take anywhere else, thanks

I think you're the only person (aside from myself) that I've ever heard say that!

I remember being in a fundamental Baptist church, and hearing the preacher say that heaven would be an eternity of worshiping at the feet of Jesus.  I knew instantly that I wasn't interested in going.  All I could think, was "how boring would that be!?!"  

Like you, I'd be somewhere looking for a dog to pet.

[Jellybean]

I think it was Mark Twain who said that he’d choose “heaven for the climate, hell for the company” - seems about right to me!

[Edhelfin]

@foreign fundie  this was from the previous thread and I just managed to catch up with the latest Lori stuff so apologies. You said 'What you want is what ISIS fighters want out of their ‘wives’. Really, your thinking is much more in line with ISIS than with the Bible. You got the wrong religion' (addressing Trey the commenter) - ISIS is not a religion, nor is it representative of Islam.

[Curious]

4 hours ago, Destiny said:

So help me C, if you start a peanut butter war, I'll ... I don't know what I will do, but it will be DRASTIC. ;-p

I'm not starting anything *big doe eyes*  I'm merely suggesting if one wanted to see a fight of EPIC proportions they could do so.   Don't you want to see who would play the roles of Elle and Confused Jezebel?

3 hours ago, Sarah92 said:

the great peanut butter debate

Oh, it wasn't a "debate."   It was a full out WAR.  Gauntlets were thrown!  Children nearly died because they were either allergic to peanut butter OR they would starve to death because other nut butters are WAY TOO EXPENSIVE.  Not to mention the children that would eat NOTHING but peanut butter!   It was a real and true (first world) crisis, I tells ya!

good times....good times

[Curious]

3 hours ago, Destiny said:

So. Much. Worse. LOL

Where is your sense of adventure?

If not peanut butter or shoes in the house, how about circumcision or vaccines?  I mean they aren't peanut butter, but they are pretty good if one wants to see true FJ fighting.

I feel like with this current board culture none of these topics would be as epic as they were "back in the day."     Sometimes I really miss Elle (for about 15 seconds).  Ah, the memories.

3 hours ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

 

The funny thing is that the peanut butter thread in No Holds Barred doesn't have much arguing. No one who wanted to fight to the death about ground legumes commented there, IIRC. When I read it, I just ended up hungry for things like cinnamon toast. 

I've noticed that about thread drift sometimes; whether it's a fun drift or an angry one, when it gets moved to its very own thread, it often tends to die out after a bit. Only a few posters bother to follow it to its new spot. Some folks only frequent a few threads or forums, I guess?

Have you read the old PB thread? https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/freejinger/needs-of-the-few-outweighing-the-needs-of-many-a-m-t6281.html#.UQn9f79ZVip

We are much more "segmented" now than on Yuku and people do tend to stick to one area.  There are prolific posters that I have never even seen because they never leave the Duggar/Bates forums.   I've never figured out a good way to get people to move around more, which I think would (mostly) be a benefit for both the community and the members.

I have no desire to go back to eleventy Duggar threads pushing the other threads off the first page in minutes every day though.

[foreign fundie]

26 minutes ago, Edhelfin said:

@foreign fundie  this was from the previous thread and I just managed to catch up with the latest Lori stuff so apologies. You said 'What you want is what ISIS fighters want out of their ‘wives’. Really, your thinking is much more in line with ISIS than with the Bible. You got the wrong religion' (addressing Trey the commenter) - ISIS is not a religion, nor is it representative of Islam.

Yes, you are right. That is why I didn’t say ‘what Muslims want out of their wives’. But Christianity is a religion and he’s got the wrong one. I hope that clears it up.

[foreign fundie]

Hi all who responded to the evangelism discussion! I just wrote an good hour long reply to many of your comments, posted it and it never appeared.However I have to pack and will be traveling so cannot continue the discussion at this time. 

[Grandma D]

9 hours ago, Curious said:

This is nothing.  If you want to see what a real FJ fight looks like start a thread about banning peanut butter from schools or wearing shoes in the house.   It will be on the second thread before you get up tomorrow.  Also, please test this is no holds barred

Or breastfeeding! 

[Grandma D]

3 hours ago, Koala said:

Yes, exactly!  

Lori says:

No, Lori.  I can't.  I certainly can't. You on the other hand, should be able to imagine it well...

Here's a reminder of your willingness to waltz into another county, and brashly invade their privacy. 

A mere 21 days later, you did the same thing to the owner of this home.

The good news?  I don't think we're a "nation of peeping toms".  You're the only person I've ever seen do something so crass.

Is that a reflection of Lori in the side window? Looks like she's posing and rather defrauding. 

[molecule]

I am having quote problems, so let me try it this way:

Louisa05 said, "Actually, Jesus said make disciples not converts and there is a difference."

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes! Too many Christians view this as a command to recruit new members (the whole "soul-winning" thing). I view what Jesus said more along the lines of retention than recruitment: help the people who are already Christians grow in discipleship.

This whole topic seems really odd to me. I just don't think of my faith in terms of evangelism. I figure that I can help take care of people's bodies and hearts. Taking care of souls is for God to do, not for me. I also don't think of salvation in terms of heaven or hell but as oneness with God, so it seems weird to me that the Maxwells ask people where they're going when they die.

It would never occur to me to talk to someone about Jesus unless they asked me. I talk about my church and my ministry work because it's part of my life--just like when I used to talk about jobs and book clubs to people. If they want to know, they'll ask. If they don't ask, I just keep being as kind as I can--not because I'm trying to win them over but because it helps my own spiritual development.

Our best friends are of another faith. We often talk about our beliefs because it's so interesting to learn about each other's experiences. We've attended services with each other. But we have never tried to convert each other.

I respect the strong feelings people have expressed against proselytizing because I feel the same way--but it's so removed from the way I live my faith that it all feels odd to me. I know those comments apply to me because I'm a Christian, but they are about things I just don't do.