Lori Alexander 39: Civilization breaks down because...women

[usmcmom]

43 minutes ago, Lgirlrocks said:

If you click the link that she has in the article it doesn’t work. It says web page can’t be found

Oh gosh! I see what you mean. I apologize for misunderstanding. I had not even seen that link in the post. You are right; it does not work. Sorry about that. 

[AuntKrazy]

About evangelism (versus proselytizing) - I would say that for me, I talk about Jesus like I would any other person or relationship. 

If I talk a lot about how great my mum is all the time, I might ask my friend who has said he/she wanted to meet mum to have lunch with us when she visits. But it wouldn't be pushy or anything. 

Evangelism then, is more natural, at least what I believe in, than an agenda. Someone asks me where  I get my hair done, I give her my salon's card. Someone needs a doctor, I give him the name of mine. Someone asks me about my beliefs, I tell him. A friend asks me where I'm going and I'm on my way to church, I might ask if she'd like to come along. But I'm still a friend no matter if he/she doesn't go to my hairdresser, doctor, or share my faith.

Why I talk about Jesus: My faith has helped me. Jesus is the friend who taught me to have hope, and how to love. He brings me comfort, and inspiration. I think it is normal to talk about all the things in life that we are passionate about; but in the context of a recipicol, engaged conversation. I don't want to badger anyone with Jesus anymore than I want to badger people with hockey stats. Doing so could put someone off and cause them to dislike the idea of Jesus, or, God forbid, hockey. ;-)

 

[slp]

Quote

5 minutes ago, AuntKrazy said:

About evangelism (versus proselytizing) - I would say that for me, I talk about Jesus like I would any other person or relationship. 

If I talk a lot about how great my mum is all the time, I might ask my friend who has said he/she wanted to meet mum to have lunch with us when she visits. But it wouldn't be pushy or anything. 

Evangelism then, is more natural, at least what I believe in, than an agenda. Someone asks me where  I get my hair done, I give her my salon's card. Someone needs a doctor, I give him the name of mine. Someone asks me about my beliefs, I tell him. A friend asks me where I'm going and I'm on my way to church, I might ask if she'd like to come along. But I'm still a friend no matter if he/she doesn't go to my hairdresser, doctor, or share my faith.

Why I talk about Jesus: My faith has helped me. Jesus is the friend who taught me to have hope, and how to love. He brings me comfort, and inspiration. I think it is normal to talk about all the things in life that we are passionate about; but in the context of a recipicol, engaged conversation. I don't want to badger anyone with Jesus anymore than I want to badger people with hockey stats. Doing so could put someone off and cause them to dislike the idea of Jesus, or, God forbid, hockey. ;-)

 

 

Yes, this... exactly.  I don't censor my self around my atheist friends.  I still say "I'm worried about such and such, but I'm just going to have to trust God to know what's best and leave it in His hands."  just like I would around my church friends.  If I speak to someone who is having a hard time I might say (if it felt right) "You know, when I've had a hard time in my life, I was really helped by my relationship with God. Can I tell you about it?"  etc.  

[Lgirlrocks]

This women must never leave her home. My dad worked two jobs and my mom one (part time) so we could get by. We were lower middle class growing up and we always wore handmedowns unless someone gifted us clothes. We never went on lavish vacations or had cable. We hardly ever ate out unless my grandma took us and paid. We always had food and clothes but money was tight a lot. Women are supposed to help their husbands and sometimes the way to help them is to work too. My parents didn’t believe in having debt. If they had to they always paid things off early. My life didn’t suffer because both of my parents worked. It was better. I got to spend time with both of my parents. Someone was usually home. Dad worked during the day on weekdays and nights on the weekends. My mom worked days on the weekends and some nights during the week. We also had sitters when a parent couldn’t be there.

Things were different in the Bible. There weren’t schools like we have to day. It wasn’t safe for women to be out on  their own so it was better for them to take care of the house. 

[louisa05]

15 minutes ago, slp said:

Yes, this... exactly.  I don't censor my self around my atheist friends.  I still say "I'm worried about such and such, but I'm just going to have to trust God to know what's best and leave it in His hands."  just like I would around my church friends.  If I speak to someone who is having a hard time I might say (if it felt right) "You know, when I've had a hard time in my life, I was really helped by my relationship with God. Can I tell you about it?"  etc.  

And that's when I choke back the vomit and leave. 

How do you know what kind of relationship with God every person you talk to has? Those kinds of statements strike me as so terribly presumptive. And every time they have been directed at me, they have come from people that do not have a single clue about my spiritual life or journey OR who do and disapprove of it and believe that I am in the wrong church and it is their duty to get me back to the right one. Thus, the latter group does have an idea of my spiritual life but chooses to completely disrespect it. So, yeah, no. Just stop it with that. 

[lilwriter85]

Uh, fucking Lindy. She makes dumb ass generalizations about two income families all the time. There are probably some two income families out there with massive debts, but Lindy is assuming that it's very common. Some families tend to have housing debts which isn't always horrible. Not everyone can or is able to save up for years to buy houses in cash. Also, many two income families don't have debt.

I crack up at the part about Lindy mentioning people coveting the Internet. Lindy, why do you have Internet access?

 I don't think families having cable, going out to eat, and vacations are bad things. If a two income couple are mainly working to build up savings, access to health insurance and other benefits and they have some money to play with-- let them have fun watching cable channels as a family, going out to eat every once awhile or taking an occasional vacation.  Lindy ignores the fact that Lori spent a few months in Wisconsin last year and she has gone on other trips. Lori posted pictures of restaurants that she and Ken went to and she has posted about watching movies on cable networks.

 

[December]

3 hours ago, BlackSheep said:

They have the same general form but different functions.

Lori sensationalizes topics like these to get clicks and likes and shares. When you break this topic down into its parts, it quickly becomes dull.

I don't think your answer is tedious. It's logical. Nobody would argue that a wetsuit and a disco suit are essentially the same piece of clothing, just because they cover approximately the same amount of skin! 

5 hours ago, Koala said:

Some men (pretty much ALL fundamentalist) would consider her to be extremely immodest, even on the beach.  

The only moral swimsuit is my swimsuit!  

I love the idea that modesty is somehow only related to the amount of skin covered, too. When I go to the pool, I wear a tankini and a swim cover-up. I'm not trying to cover up my skin so I don't defraud the poor men because I don't think every man is a raging horndog who will automatically think dirty thoughts about some random lady.  I'm covering up because I burn easily -- that's why I slather on sunscreen and wear a hat, too! 

[lilwriter85]

This woman brings up a good point about working to have pensions and not wanting to live in poverty in old age. Some of Lori's fangirls might have huge financial struggles when they are old especially if their husbands don't have high pensions or no other retirement funds. We also have no idea what will become of Social Security in the US. Lori better hope that nothing fucks up Ken's retirement fund.

 

ETA: I just noticed that another FJer Frog99 screencapped Samuela's comments. Sorry, I didn't notice it. I'm surprised Samuela's comment has stayed up this long. I laugh that Lori didn't even try to reply to the point that was brought up regarding pensions for women.

 

[delphinium65]

3 hours ago, Fascinated said:

I have to vehemently disagree with this.  Their function is the same. To defraud Ken.  To cause Ken to lust. To catch Ken’s wandering eye. Not acceptable. Period.  

Great argument in favor of donning a burqa.  

[SuperNova]

1 hour ago, louisa05 said:

And that's when I choke back the vomit and leave. 

That's a little harsh. I am a staunch atheist and I don't mind hearing about someone else's god. If someone doesn't know what my spirituality is or isn't and wants to share, how does it hurt me if someone chooses to show kindness by sharing what comforts them? It doesn't. It doesn't convert me either but I can appreciate the gesture of kindness. I don't find it presumptive or take it personally as a commentary on my faith or lack thereof. I can choose to say no when they ask to share but most often I listen.

[feministxtian]

3 hours ago, SuperNova said:

I can choose to say no when they ask to share but most often I listen.

That works both ways. My friend K and I have a deal...we just don't really talk about faith/religion. I know what she does or doesn't believe and she knows what I do or don't believe. We share many of the same interests. When she was going thru some stuff, she asked me to pray for her...so I did...it blew my mind, but it helped her. She's like my little sister...and I love her to pieces, even though we're as different as night and day. 

As I said above, I don't push my faith on anyone. I don't hide it, but I don't flaunt it either. If you come to my house, I won't hide my bible or my journal. I won't take down the cross that hangs on my wall (It was my aunt's and hung in her home for years). I won't hide my choir music. I won't hide the bible apps on my phone, tablet and computers. If it makes you uncomfortable, I'm sorry...but I won't hide who I am. I don't expect you to hide who you are either. 

[KDA]

6 hours ago, JillyO said:

Thanks for the reply, but that doesn't really answer my question. Of course people can have discussions about Jesus or Christianity even when one of them has other beliefs. Especially if the non-Christian has a question that the Christian then answers. That's not really what I consider evangelism though. Evangelism - from what I understand - is going out into the world and telling people about Jesus Christ with the intention of converting people. Having been at the receiving end of it several times (though surely not nearly as often as some of our other posters here!!) I find this behavior to be highly annoying, and I am curious to learn how some of our posters who engage in evangelism justify this.

I personally DO NOT evangelise, or tell anyone about Jesus without being asked, or anything of the sort (although if you ask me, I will tell you what I believe and why, and take you along to church if you want to come) but I know some Jehovah's Witnesses ladies who door knock regularly to give random strangers pamphlets on Jesus. They have to do it for so many hours per week - it's a requirement to be in their church, apparently. In discussions I have had with them, they have said that they believe so passionately and so strongly in their church, and that it is right, and they don't want anybody to miss out on the opportunity to know what they know. They believe they are "saving" people - this is their mission/calling in life, to save souls. It is very important to them to lead people to Jesus, so they can be saved. 

My personal philosophy, and that of most of the people I attend church with, is more along the lines of this poem I love:

"I am my neighbours Bible, he reads me when we meet. Today he reads me in my home– tomorrow, in the street. He may be relative or friend or slight acquaintance be; he may not even know my name, yet he is reading me."

I don't know the origins of that poem, but I love it. 

[TeddyBonkers]

That is a beautiful poem, @KDA. Sums up my thoughts so well.

I listen to my husband read the Bible almost every day. He reads out loud after supper, and we have 'church' at home where he reads a chapter or two and explains it to the kids. People out in the world may or may not know that I am a Christian, but I try to be known as a kind person (but Lord, this mouth...). 

I think there's a mindset that Christians tend to be judgmental and hypocritical. Lori does Christianity no favors by actually being judgemental and hypocritical.

[BlackSheep]

1 hour ago, TeddyBonkers said:

I think there's a mindset that Christians tend to be judgmental and hypocritical. Lori does Christianity no favors by actually being judgemental and hypocritical.

Agreed.

Christians are human, just like everyone else. We aren't perfect. We have our moments (and hopefully we learn from them).

But Lori has consciously built a ministry on a foundation of judgment and hypocrisy. This is no moment of weakness that you wish you could take back. What she does is calculated.

[Loveday]

Someone needs to tell Lori that the Internet does not stop at the borders of the United States. It floats across the oceans of the world, even unto Zambia.

Reader from Zambia, responding to Lori's scribble yesterday afternoon about 'women of old:'

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Most of them had maids, lets not forget that too. Even the virtuous woman did

Lori, from the heights of her privilege:

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But they didn’t have running water, hot water out of the taps, toilets, washing machines, dishwashers, dryers, etc. Those are our maids!

Reader from Zambia:

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...its not everyone that had dishwashers, washing machines etc also.
A typical example is myself.
Am living in an area where sometimes we have no running water for a whole month so we have to fetch from a well. 
Most of these dishwashers, washing machines, dryers in countries where some of us from are luxuries so we do everything manually even pounding things like groundnuts, we do it manually so I know the place am speaking from.
Here we still have women who walk long distances for firewood and to fetch water such that girls even miss out on education.
You talk of home schooling kids, we have parents here who have never been to school, cant even write their names, how will they homeschool a child? So parents have no choice but to take the child to a public school. 
Even if the parent can homeschool, think of a child and who walks over 2km to fetch water and another over 2km comming back plus firewood among other chores.

Lori, with her nose in the air:

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the women who read my posts have all of these modern day conveniences and need to know how blessed they are to have them instead of destroying their marriages because their husbands don't help with housework.

Well, clearly not all women who read your posts, Lori, because this woman--this reader of your posts!-- from Zambia just told you that many women in her country DON'T have these conveniences, and she probably doesn't have all of them either. 

I don't know whether to laugh hysterically or to just keep slamming my head against the brick wall that is Lori's abysmal stupidity.

 

[louisa05]

That's a little harsh. I am a staunch atheist and I don't mind hearing about someone else's god. If someone doesn't know what my spirituality is or isn't and wants to share, how does it hurt me if someone chooses to show kindness by sharing what comforts them? It doesn't. It doesn't convert me either but I can appreciate the gesture of kindness. I don't find it presumptive or take it personally as a commentary on my faith or lack thereof. I can choose to say no when they ask to share but most often I listen.

The statement I was responding to is hardly a normal conversation for starters. And whether the poster had encountered it as such or not, it is a studied and taught way to evangelize. It is presumptive because it assumes the person has no relationship with God and it assumes that the person has no coping means of their own. It was thrown at me often when caring for a terminally ill parent.

Frankly, I’ve seen the worst of evangelism training up close. Trying to prey on anyone in a down time of life is a strategy that is literally taught. I find the notion that I should go exploit people’s struggles to convert them pretty repulsive.

You also have to understand how utterly distasteful it is to be a Christian whose Christianity is considered false or inadequate and thus be a conversion target.

[lilwriter85]

1 hour ago, Loveday said:

Someone needs to tell Lori that the Internet does not stop at the borders of the United States. It floats across the oceans of the world, even unto Zambia.

Reader from Zambia, responding to Lori's scribble yesterday afternoon about 'women of old:'

Lori, from the heights of her privilege:

Reader from Zambia:

Lori, with her nose in the air:

Well, clearly not all women who read your posts, Lori, because this woman--this reader of your posts!-- from Zambia just told you that many women in her country DON'T have these conveniences, and she probably doesn't have all of them either. 

I don't know whether to laugh hysterically or to just keep slamming my head against the brick wall that is Lori's abysmal stupidity.

 

I'm at the point where I tend to laugh more at Lori's stupidity.

On a related note, a woman who grew up Mexico before moving to Canada posted this. I rolled my eyes and laughed at Lori saying "We were created to work hard like your family". Lori has never worked hard in her life.  Lori as a SAHM in a first world country had access to nanny who was likely doing some  or most of the housework. There are hard working SAHMs here in the US, but Lori wasn't one of them. I have met a few people from Mexico who grew up similarly to the commenter. They have said they appreciated learning work ethic from growing up like that. But, they have said they weren't always happy. I feel sorry for the commenter because she seems to have no  clue how privileged Lori is.

 

[Loveday]

Work hard? Lori has never worked hard at anything other than deleting comments that she doesn't like. Lori thinks she was created to be a lily of the field. She toils not, neither does she spin. 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

57 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

You also have to understand how utterly distasteful it is to be a Christian whose Christianity is considered false or inadequate and thus be a conversion target.

Yes, yes, yes.!! 

I cannot count the number of times I've been told that as a Catholic I'm not a Christian. That I worship idols and false gods and that I need to repent my sins and "Accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior" and that I need to "Get right with God." 

Some of the people who do this are seemingly well-meaning, but condescending. Saying I just haven't thought it through, and have been deceived by the devil working in the Catholic Church.  Then they get all concerned. Asking if I really want to spend eternity burning in Hell.  Because they're worried about me ya know.

Others are just downright rude. Telling me that deceased members of my family, because they weren't born again and accepted Jesus, are all burning in Hell.  They are sorry not sorry, but that's just the truth and the way it is. 

The older I get the harder it is to be civil to those who attack me because of my faith. I suspect one day I will have had enough and I won't be civil. At all.

.

 

[EowynW]

A beautiful catholic service on a vacation weekend was the pivotal moment in us leaving Baptistville. We are now attending a Methodist church.  

[fluffy]

Peeping Toms? You don't say...

[foreign fundie]

@JillyO

Thank you for the question. Before I answer it, I would like to draw a distinction between those who have never heard about the gospel of Jesus, like millions in Hindu, Buddhist and Muslim nations, and those that have grown up surrounded by Christians, churches, Christian institutions, and all kinds of public displays of the Christian faith. In the case of people being completely unfamiliar with the Biblical message (hard to imagine for Westerners, but the reality for a large proportion of the world’s population), evangelism is offering them a chance to hear of a God that made them, loves them, who became a man to share their suffering and deal with their sin, who conquered death, who offers them eternal life and who calls them to follow him. This message is the message that we believe all people should have a chance to hear and to respond to. I will later explain why.

However, from frequent comments here, I gather that in America many people feel pushed, imposed on, nagged or relentlessly invited to explore a faith they either already possess in a slightly different form, or that they have explored and decided against. 

Although I can think of many good reasons for sharing my faith with those who have not had a chance to hear, or really understand because Christianity was misrepresented to them (all they know is from Lori’s blog for example), I can think of no good reason for harassing people who have decided against Christian believes or who are Christians but do not attend your church. If an evangelist (or random Christian friend) shares his faith with you and you are not interested or believe already, then a ‘no thank you’ should be enough to make him back off or change topics. When I say ‘bold’ evangelism, I mean unashamed and unafraid, not aggressively pushing the gospel down people’s throat. And I also firmly believe that we cannot and should never try to ‘convert’ people. Only people themselves can choose to convert, because their hearts are convinced by the Spirit of God that the message they hear is true. 

But back to your question why you would share your faith anyway and not just let people believe what they believe. There are several answers, so here goes…

Jesus told his followers to ‘go into all the world and preach the gospel’ to ‘make disciples of all nations’ to ‘be my witnesses…until the ends of the earth’. The gospel was not meant to stay in Jerusalem, but was meant to be made know everywhere. So really, we have a mandate.  

Also, saying that you are happy to be a Christian yourself, but see no need to urge other to consider it, that makes no sense in my opinion. Because the only reason you believe is because somebody told you about it. And that person heard it from someone else. Ultimately, there were missionaries/evangelists that left their homes and took the trouble, the cost, the danger, and whatever it took to make this message known. Without evangelism, we would all have very different believes and very different values. Because whether you are a Christian or not, a lot of what we consider common values in the West, find their base in a Judeo-Christian worldview. I am not saying Christians or people in countries with Christian roots are better people, or that their countries are superior. I am saying that many of the values we judge ourselves and each other by are not common to mankind everywhere, nor did we think them up. They are firmly rooted in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament. We came to share these values because the scriptures that contain them were brought to us and translated for us, by evangelists. 

Back to evangelism, if we are glad that we have heard that message and believe it, we cannot at the same time believe evangelism is morally wrong. Because if it was, we should never have heard it either. You could take that further and say that if evangelism is morally wrong, than all Christian expressions in our culture, which are all a result ultimately of evangelism, should be done away with. 

Then there is the point of truth. I had a friend who joined a doomsday cult. She loved my family and did what she could to get us on board, so we could along with her escape the destruction of the world in December a few years ago. She did not convince me, but her ‘evangelism’ was the result of her conviction that what she believed was true, and could save us. How could I fault her for trying? She loved us. I have another friend who often has a coffee with her Muslim neighbor. She is a very strong evangelical and her friends husband a mosque leader. They both really want the other to know the truth. So when they meet, they get 20 minutes each to talk about their believes. They listen to each other. They appreciate the other trying. They don’t get pushy about it. They hope and pray their friend will be convinced. 

If you believe what is in the Bible is true, it cannot only be true for yourself. Because the claims of Jesus are not limited to his followers. God loves the world, Jesus came to save the world, he will come again to judge the world. Now if we consider our faith ‘an opinion’ then we can let others have their opinion and not bring ours up. But if we believe the gospel is really true, then we cannot keep what we believe private, because the very content of that gospel demands its proclamation. And as I am convinced personally that Jesus is who he says he is, I cannot be let off the hook. Now there are a million ways and places this gospel can be shared, through words and actions. And again I am not saying Christians have a right or a duty to be annoying assholes. Quite the opposite. But still I think that as a believer in Jesus, I am ‘automatically’ an evangelist. Off to my soapbox! (Oh wait, I was on it already)

 

 

 

[fluffy]

@foreign fundie Please for the love of God stop proselytizing. It is deeply offensive and a really fucked up use of this space. 

[saintmom]

On 2/14/2018 at 9:39 PM, Koala said:

"It's so cool to be one of the popular girls!"  

Reader:

Lori, Queen of the Cool Girls:

Is she kidding herself?  I am sorry, but what self respecting woman wants to be treated this way?  AT BEST, Lori is going to accept her, and then demand that she only tell her the things that she wants to hear.  If she doesn't like what she says, she will ban her, and hold her up to ridicule on her blog.

Further, this woman will be "monitored" by The Godly Mentor for a "majority of the day".  If Lori doesn't like a conversation she's having with another chat room member, she'll scold them like children, and demand that they stop.

Why anyone would subject themselves to such ridiculousness is absolutely beyond me.

An application???? OMFG  

[treehugger]

@foreign fundie, as an MK/TCK myself, I just want to let you know that most Muslims, Jews, Hindi people already know about Jesus. In fact, there really isn't an "Unreached" people group in the world anymore. Colonialist, Christian missionaries had taken care of a large portion of the world since, well let's face it the Byzantine Empire at least, and globalization, and the idiotic John Shraders of the world have taken care of the rest in the modern era.