Joy and Austin 18: 234 Days Since the Wedding and Counting

[victoriasponge]

Ahem. Now it's the light of a lovely new day, I'd like to partially apologise for causing colossal thread drift (landslide?). I was on a train for 3.5 hours which gave me excellent amounts of time to either refresh FJ or look out the dark window at nothing but rain... Apparently I chose the pissed off board-poster route. (I blame my argumentative family and boyfriend for never letting me miss an opportunity for a 'discussion'.)

But I stand by my original comment. Breast might be best, but a fed baby is better, and it's not on me or anyone else to judge a woman's reasons to breastfeed or to bottlefeed unless they are actually causing distress. And that judging everyone who chooses to feed one way because of a bad anecdotal experience makes no sense. I mean, I had a terrible experience breastfeeding and that left me starved, but I'm not going around judging parents, or even nurses/doctors, who push for women to breastfeed, it makes sense - and it's hypothetically free too.

At the end of the day, all this does is continue to place all the blame for the good or bad upbringing of kids on the mum, leaving the dad completely out of blame, even if it was a mutual decision. (And please, for the love of God, let women breastfeed in public. Ugh to making them go into public toilets.)

[Jenn The Heathen]

@Shadoewolf I remember that Time article.  I remember being really angry about it, not because of the image, but because of the headline that accompanied it: “Are You Mom Enough?”  Basically, if you don’t breast feed until your kid is old enough to open your shirt for you, Time magazine thinks you’re a crap mother.  Good to know.

[Shadoewolf]

I'm cool witth nursing in public so long as it's done discreetly, and I don't mean with a blanket or a cover over the baby because some babies don't like it or in the bathroom (eww!). My problem is more the the breastapo who sit down at Starbucks, whip out their boob and let it hang while they get the baby out of the carrier, etc then bitch when people complain. There's cute nursing tops, the two shirt method, asking for a booth and facing the other way. No reason a nursing mom has to flash everyone for more than a minute or so while latching other than to cause a big scene. So tired of these 15 minutes of fame mothers doing it just for attention.

[Rosalie]

7 minutes ago, Shadoewolf said:

I'm cool witth nursing in public so long as it's done discreetly, and I don't mean with a blanket or a cover over the baby because some babies don't like it or in the bathroom (eww!). My problem is more the the breastapo who sit down at Starbucks, whip out their boob and let it hang while they get the baby out of the carrier, etc then bitch when people complain. There's cute nursing tops, the two shirt method, asking for a booth and facing the other way. No reason a nursing mom has to flash everyone for more than a minute or so while latching other than to cause a big scene. So tired of these 15 minutes of fame mothers doing it just for attention.

...Or let the boobs hang free for anyone to study them after the bf, “as they have to air dry”. That’s pure exibitionistic, IMO.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I've never seen boobs flop around or hang free when I see nursing in public. It's always discreet or a woman is using a cover. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

Yall owe me... something. I don't know what. 

This breastfeeding thread drift caused me to dream I was breastfeeding last night. I wasn't able to produce enough milk, though, because my breasts aren't really breasts anymore (breast cancer/bilateral mastectomy/reconstruction). So my baby hedgehog needed formula. Yeah. A hedgehog.

#ineedalife #whatthefuckwasidreamingthatfor #iblameFJforeverything #itbitmetoo

[Fascinated]

I was recently in an airport waiting area.  A woman was talking on her cell phone and her kid, who looked to be 2 or 3 (I suck at guessing ages), climbed up and hoisted her top. He went back and forth from one breast to the other and she just kept talking on her phone. I didn’t know how to feel.  I was a little uncomfortable that her boobs were on full display, and everyone in the area seemed to be doing everything not to look. It was really weird.  I knew she had every right to feed her kid there, yet it all seemed like a deliberately public display. It bothered me that it bothered me.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 minutes ago, Fascinated said:

I was recently in an airport waiting area.  A woman was talking on her cell phone and her kid, who looked to be 2 or 3 (I suck at guessing ages), climbed up and hoisted her top. He went back and forth from one breast to the other and she just kept talking on her phone. I didn’t know how to feel.  I was a little uncomfortable that her boobs were on full display, and everyone in the area seemed to be doing everything not to look. It was really weird.  I knew she had every right to feed her kid there, yet it all seemed like a deliberately public display. It bothered me that it bothered me.  

Well that's definitely out of the ordinary so I'm the type that thinks it's ok to feel uncomfortable when you witness something that basically never happens. I nursed a child that age and I would NEVER allow him to do that in an airport. 

[Knight of Ni]

 

11 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

Random pissed off rant: Why is it that the Republicans who are so 'pro life' want to take WIC away from tiny children? Not so pro-life once the baby is born. 

They are not pro-life. They are pro-birth. 

[Jenn The Heathen]

I think the difference between nursing an infant and nursing a toddler/preschooler in public is necessity.  With a breast feeding infant, the boob is the only source of nutrition for a while so if baby starts crying to be fed in the middle of Starbucks, a mom has to do what a mom has to do.  But the airport story is a whole other thing.  It’s not the only source of nutrition (chances are it’s not even a big portion of a child that age’s nutrition).  Mom could have offered him a granola bar or a piece of fruit instead of allowing him to expose her breasts to an entire airport.  And, it’s not about bonding either if she was basically ignoring him for her phone call while he drank.

It really bothers me when the militant pro breast feeders start yelling that people shouldn’t be uncomfortable around women breast feeding in public because breasts aren’t meant to be sexualized, that they’re use is for feeding babies.  I get that, but unfortunately, breasts are sexualized, A TON, so yeah, people are going to react.

[HarleyQuinn]

I remember that Time article. All I could think of is how that kid's peers are going to tease the fuck out of him if they ever see that. 

[obiwanfreak]

12 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I lock the door of the bathroom and then I get little fingers under the door begging and pleading to let them in. Then cars are shoved under the door. With hysterical laughter to follow. 

This!!  My cats even try to get in the bathroom with me....

[louisa05]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I've never seen boobs flop around or hang free when I see nursing in public. It's always discreet or a woman is using a cover. 

My crazy aunt, (may she rest in peace) nursed her last of six kids until he went to kindergarten. We were visiting once and a bunch of us were sitting at the dining room table at my grandma's house (this cousin is 17 years younger than me). The young kids were playing outside and her youngest, age 4, came running in to his mother, lifted up her shirt, got her boob out, took a drink like it was a water fountain, then ran back outside. Aunt left her boob hanging out for the remainder of the conversation. Like half an hour. My dad (her brother!) and my brother (her nephew) had no idea where to look or what to do. 

It was quite awkward. And I won't apologize for thinking that 1--if the kid is using it for a water fountain, perhaps it is time to stop and 2--she needed to put her boob away, so to speak, as soon as he left. 

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, Fascinated said:

I was recently in an airport waiting area.  A woman was talking on her cell phone and her kid, who looked to be 2 or 3 (I suck at guessing ages), climbed up and hoisted her top. He went back and forth from one breast to the other and she just kept talking on her phone. I didn’t know how to feel.  I was a little uncomfortable that her boobs were on full display, and everyone in the area seemed to be doing everything not to look. It was really weird.  I knew she had every right to feed her kid there, yet it all seemed like a deliberately public display. It bothered me that it bothered me.  

I’m a big supporter of moms nursing wherever and whenever they need to, but this would have bothered me too. Probably because it’s so outside the norm for me - I haven’t experienced anything close to this. I think you did the right thing by choosing to look away rather than make a fuss though. It was an odd situation, but (like you said) she had the right to feed him there and deciding to handle it as you did shows you respect that right. 

[KnittingOwl]

13 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I lock the door of the bathroom and then I get little fingers under the door begging and pleading to let them in. Then cars are shoved under the door. With hysterical laughter to follow. 

My 6 year old DD does not understand why everyone doesn’t want company in the bathroom. 

[melon]

17 hours ago, sabeek said:

Baby wearing and cry it out, too, right?  

Oh,no.I was told NOT to hold my baby...that he would "manipulate" me.And yes,I was told he needed to cry because it was good for his lungs.Did I listen?Hell,no.My mother said this,Melon,honey,hold him as long as you can"."He won't want to be held when he'a older".

[JermajestyDuggar]

I've actually had to make a lot of rules about my body and personal space lately. My kids don't just get free reign over my body. I think that's what bothers me the most about the preschoolers just whipping out mom's boob and taking a drink whenever they want. By that age, there needs to be some teaching about personal space, boundaries, and there being a time and place for nursing. I had to tell my toddler that it was not time for nursing. I had to tell him not to play with Mommy's boobs in public. It's my body, not theirs. They of course don't learn that as babies. But they definitely can start to learn at toddler/preschool age. And I think it's an important lesson to learn. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Well that's definitely out of the ordinary so I'm the type that thinks it's ok to feel uncomfortable when you witness something that basically never happens. I nursed a child that age and I would NEVER allow him to do that in an airport. 

I've not seen it at an airport but I did see it 1 time in a restaurant and the woman did it just to get attention because when the manager asked her to put her breast away she screamed about being allowed to nurse in public. He politely said that wasn't the issue the issue was the baby was sleeping and in his carrier and her breast was STILL out and had been for some time.  I was sitting right next to her, I told her, her breast was still out, thinking maybe she forgot, she just gave me a dirty look. She tried to media coverage it saying this place didn't allow public breast feeding but it fell flat. I PMd her on FB about being there and I sent her a photo of her sitting there with the baby in the car seat and her boob out and I wasn't afraid to use it. She shut up after that.

I saw it anther time at the mall, but that time I do think the woman genuinely forgot because when someone told her she looked all kinds of horrified, she had what looked to be a 6-8 week old infant and a toddler and she looked exhausted.

The one time I thought I was seeing an issue was a mom trying to nurse her large infant (s/he was just big maybe 5/6 months old) and the manager asked if they wanted to move, she started to get defensive and the manger just said she had two better options of a chair with arm rests or a big both for more room and comfort for her to nurse in, she offered to move their food and drinks to the new table, after mom seemed grateful for the extra cushion of a booth and better way to prop herself up to feed comfortably.

[lizzybee]

I couldn't breastfeed because milk wouldn't come in adequately and my NICU baby never learned how to latch and wasn't patient enough to try to help get the milk in. He did fine with formula. It's a dirty lie and a painful one to tell mothers that everyone can breastfeed. No they can't. Most can, but no, not everyone. There is some form of thought that it's even questionable if breastfeeding IS superior or not. BF'ing is hard on mom's, contributes to sleep loss and isolation, and should only be done if the mother wants that and as long as she wants that. 

As for toddlers+ breastfeeding, I support it even if it does make people uncomfortable including myself. I was in the mother's room at church months ago with my son and a lady was sitting at court touting her breastfeeding experience to a few mamas with newborns. Her very generous boobs were both out and splayed for all in the room to behold. I was sitting in the corner formula feeding my child, wishing she would say something to me about that formula bottle. She didn't, lol. I was probably just being defensive. Anyway, her child was verbally telling her which boob he wanted and that seemed really a lot to me. BUT I respect her right to do what she wanted with her body and her child. It was just awkward. That's definitely more boob than I ever expected to see at church.  

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

5 minutes ago, lizzybee said:

I couldn't breastfeed because milk wouldn't come in adequately and my NICU baby never learned how to latch and wasn't patient enough to try to help get the milk in. He did fine with formula. It's a dirty lie and a painful one to tell mothers that everyone can breastfeed. No they can't. Most can, but no, not everyone. There is some form of thought that it's even questionable if breastfeeding IS superior or not. BF'ing is hard on mom's, contributes to sleep loss and isolation, and should only be done if the mother wants that and as long as she wants that. 

YES!  I fall in that percentage of women who do not lactate. I nursed and pumped and nursed and pumped #2 for 4 weeks, at 1st she'd nurse for 40/45 minutes and swallow maybe twice, I would pump and get around 1/4 of an ounce out of each breast, this was nursing and pumping every 2 hours for 2 weeks and then pumping every 2 hours for 2 more, and never got more than 1/2 an ounce total after a pumping session, and I could pump and get 1/8 of an ounce total one days worth of pumping wouldn't get me enough for 1bottle, I returned the rented pump after 30 days (this was in 2000 & I couldn't afford the $60 a month for that and $$ for formula). Lactation consultants and a well meaning friend kept telling me it would come in. It was finally my pediatrician, who told me to quit torturing myself lots of moms can't nurse and lots more don't want to, that is why they have such good formula, gave me a couple different samples and some coupons and sent me on my way.

[Glasgowghirl]

15 hours ago, CaricatureQualities said:

 

What now? You know a family who gives their 3 year olds mountain dew in a baby bottle? Seriously? Please elaborate.

When I worked in KFC I saw parents put Pepsi in their kids bottles a few times. The kids always looked under 2. I was always tempted to say something but not my place and could have gotten into trouble from my boss. 

[Alisamer]

22 minutes ago, Glasgowghirl said:

When I worked in KFC I saw parents put Pepsi in their kids bottles a few times. The kids always looked under 2. I was always tempted to say something but not my place and could have gotten into trouble from my boss. 

A former friend of mine (who is a bit dim generally) used to put Mountain Dew in a bottle for her kid. She did all sorts of things that are not recommended, both while pregnant and with the baby. He ended up losing many of his baby teeth to decay before school age and she was just baffled as to how that could have happened.

[Blue jay]

Ugh. Am I really hearing shaming of moms that BF their toddlers after we collectively freaked out about shaming moms that formula feed? Really? Can we stop that please? Come on now.

I get that it might make people uncomfortable, but I’d like to point out that there was a time that seeing a pregnant woman in public was uncomfortable, and we just had to get over it because that was wrong to ask women to accommodate our discomfort.

I BF my toddler, and I can see how that airport story could have been me. I get why it would have made people uncomfortable, honestly, I probably would have been a tad uncomfortable while doing it too. But I can think of a million reasons why it might have been happening. (The one that jumps to mind is dealing with something important on the phone that required concentration and knowing my toddler was occupied while Bfing and not running all over the place).

I am not a the breastapo. I formula fed too. I don’t think shaming moms helps in either direction. Saying bfing is great until the kid can ask for it, sounds a lot like saying formula feeding is fine as long as you tried to breastfeed. Both are tinged with shaming. 

Can we please operate under the assumption that everyone is doing he best they can, because we often don’t understand people’s circumstances.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

12 minutes ago, Blue jay said:

Ugh. Am I really hearing shaming of moms that BF their toddlers after we collectively freaked out about shaming moms that formula feed? Really? Can we stop that please? Come on now.

I get that it might make people uncomfortable, but I’d like to point out that there was a time that seeing a pregnant woman in public was uncomfortable, and we just had to get over it because that was wrong to ask women to accommodate our discomfort.

I BF my toddler, and I can see how that airport story could have been me. I get why it would have made people uncomfortable, honestly, I probably would have been a tad uncomfortable while doing it too. But I can think of a million reasons why it might have been happening. (The one that jumps to mind is dealing with something important on the phone that required concentration and knowing my toddler was occupied while Bfing and not running all over the place).

I am not a the breastapo. I formula fed too. I don’t think shaming moms helps in either direction. Saying bfing is great until the kid can ask for it, sounds a lot like saying formula feeding is fine as long as you tried to breastfeed. Both are tinged with shaming. 

Can we please operate under the assumption that everyone is doing he best they can, because we often don’t understand people’s circumstances.

Not shaming toddler moms, it is moms of preschoolers and older whose kids come up to them and use them like a drinking fountain.  There is a huge different. a toddler is from 1 year to 3 yrs old. Once they turn 3 they are a preschooler, so we are talking kids 3 and up, and some kids as old as 6 to 7 years old.

And not even really shaming the school age mom so much as saying there is really no reason a 5 year old needs to lift moms shirt for a drink (in public or at home, the kid is old enough to ASK 1st). Give the kid a water bottle.

[Blue jay]

4 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Not shaming toddler moms, it is moms of preschoolers and older whose kids come up to them and use them like a drinking fountain.  There is a huge different. a toddler is from 1 year to 3 yrs old. Once they turn 3 they are a preschooler, so we are talking kids 3 and up, and some kids as old as 6 to 7 years old.

And not even really shaming the school age mom so much as saying there is really no reason a 5 year old needs to lift moms shirt for a drink (in public or at home, the kid is old enough to ASK 1st). Give the kid a water bottle.

But why do you care enough to have a judgement about it? Why do you get to determine what the appropriate cut off age is?