Joy and Austin 18: 234 Days Since the Wedding and Counting

[VelociRapture]

10 minutes ago, Meggo said:

Ahem - Adoptive Mom getting on soap box. If you decide NOT to breastfeed your child - don't feel like you won't still bond with the little one. I'm plenty bonded to my little Waffle (although he is nearly five and sassy). There is no "right" way.
(off soap box) (also disclaimer - not saying anyone WAS saying that you wouldn't bond - but just go with your gut - you've got this Momma.)

AND - just to chime in on kangaroo care? IT's the BOMB. In the NICU - they also gave us warmed flannel blankies and it was heaven. Also a bonus for Daddies to get in on the cuddly, bonding time too. My husband acts all tough - but he was ALL about it. (the flannel blankies helped)

Yes!!! They had the fluffiest and warmest blankets available for Kangaroo Care in our NICU. It was especially nice considering it was early December. Nothing better than snuggling a sweet little newborn under a warm blanket.  

And I absolutely agree. Breastfeeding is a great way to bond for some moms, but no one size will fit all. 

[Carm_88]

I'm not a parent, so my five cents*, may not be worth much. That being said, I feel no need to judge Moms. If breast feeding is something that you want to do, then do it. If you try and it doesn't work, that doesn't make you a failure. If you want to bottle feed, go for it. If your child is happy and healthy with either method; that's all that matters! Parenting is hard and fuck the shamers. Its none of their damn business. They're not feeding your child. Seriously though, people like that need a hobby.

*5 Cents because in Canada, we don't have pennies. 

[Clairice]

I bf my enormous boy for 11 miserable weeks. I'll always remember that contented full look on his face after he had his first formula bottle. I wish someone had told me that it was ok to not to continue to beat myself  up for failing.

Daughter who was my second bf with absloutely no problems till she was 8 months, little monkey wouldn't entertain a bottle!

[Screamapillar]

@Fascinated said this better than I probably will, but it begs repeating. I really don't see how there's a difference in bonding whether you're holding your baby to breastfeed or holding your baby to bottle feed. You still get to snuggle and hold your newborn when they're taking a bottle, same as when they're breastfeeding. I loved sitting in the dark with my daughter at 3am and getting cozy together while she sloooooowly had a bottle.

 

[SapphireSlytherin]

1 hour ago, Screamapillar said:

I loved sitting in the dark with my daughter at 3am and getting cozy together while she sloooooowly had a bottle.

 

A friend gave me a copy of Pillars of the Earth when GryffindorDisappointment was born. She brought the book to me when she came to visit me/meet the baby in the hospital. She told me that book would be my best friend during those wee-hours feedings.

 

She was right - I actually looked forward to the 3am nursing time so I could read that wonderful book. Sadly, the kid started sleeping through the night at 6 weeks, so I had to read it during the daytime nursings. I will admit to letting my daughter nurse EXTRA LONG so I could read more. lol

[Lurker]

I breastfed both of mine as much as I was able too.  Formula was given when I was at work as I hated pumping and never had any sucess.   My mother was totally repulsed by it as her generation loved the cleanliness of formula.  They boiled the bottles, nipples, can openers, measuring spoons, and then scalded the sterilzing pot before each use to keep it clean.

It worked for me because I was not an all or nothing person about it. What is important is taking the time with what ever works for you and make eye and cuddle contact with your baby.  When I see babies with a bottle propped up without human contact while feeding I get upset and sad.

[Rosalie]

4 hours ago, Irishy said:

As far as baby friendly hospitals etc, and banning formula, I do understand. Formula companies have aggressive marketing techniques designed to undermine brand new mothers at their most vulnerable. It can be easier to perservere when no other option at hand, and often mums are glad there wasn’t. Obviously there are exceptions to this.

 

Breastfeeding rates are so low in the western world because it is a lost art. It’s a tricky thing to get right. And our mothers, aunts, sisters and grandmothers often have no experience. Today’s new mums are on their own. 

And here you reminded me on how different the countries are. In Norway all births, except for a very few home births, happens in public hospitals, were there are no marketing or salesmen ready to “attack” patients on their most vulnerable.

Also, in Norway, most children are bf. The newest statistics I found, from 2014, are saying 95% of all babies are fed breastmilk and 84% of all babies are fed only breastmilk when two weeks old. 81% are breastfed at 4 months, 55% at 9 months, 35% at 12 months. 44% are fed only breastmilk at 4 months. 

Link to the statistics, only in norwegian.

[backyard sylph]

When I breastfed my six children, beginning in 1987, the nurses didn't know how to help. They actually gave me some poor advice based on bottle feeding routines, tried to give her water between times, etc., and it took some time to get things worked out at home. You see, it never occurred to me to bottle feed, because I'd never been around any babies except one; my cousin's son who was born when I was 15, and she breastfed him so long he was asking for it in complete sentences.

That daughter and her next younger sister both had babies last year in two different states, and each had a nurse in the hospital dedicated to making sure they latched on well, there were videos to watch, and pretty much continual support. I would have appreciated that a lot, but even when I had the last one in 1998, I kind of knew more about it by then than the hospital staff, having had rather a lot of experience at it. :-)

[SapphireSlytherin]

1 minute ago, backyard sylph said:

the nurses didn't know how to help.

I was taught how to breastfeed by a male nurse. He assured me he knew what he was doing - he said he was the oldest of five kids and watched his mom enough to know. I guess he was right, because we were off and running pretty easily. lol

[SassyPants]

I nursed while I was home on maternity leave (6 months) and they both got a bottle of formula before bedtime every night- I know, contrary to what one "should" do, but I needed them to sleep at night, so that's how I did it. The reason I weaned prior to returning to work is because I will never forget the day I answered our work phone for a fellow nurse who had twins (2 sets actually) and all I could hear was screaming. My co-worker was newly back to work and her babies would not take bottles for the sitter. My thought, oh hell no!

[SilverBeach]

My baby knew the difference between my breast milk and formula and she wasn't having it. She spit that formula right out. I had to pump at work and gradually mix more and more formula into the breast milk to get her to adjust. It wasn't the bottle, but the contents. I bonded while breast feeding and while bottle feeding, no difference there. This was in the 1980's. I can't believe new moms are being subject to judgemental bullshit. The hospital did support moms wanting to breast feed like I did, but there was no pressure. There were also no roving formula pushers, they don't have access to new moms like that.

And, its developing nations, not third world countries.

Be confident and comfortable whatever you do, new moms. All the best to you and your babies.

 

 

[Bad Wolf]

Bf, formula, do what's right for you. If you bottle feed, then both of you can do it and share the moment. Mr. Wolf always did bath time since I did bf. Whatever works.

[Blue jay]

There are plenty of circumstances where formula feeding is the right option for a family (namely, whenever a family decides its the right option) But moms that want to breastfeed should get all the support they need to make that happen if that is how they want to feed their baby. There are plenty of women who end up formula feeding not because they really wanted to, but because they didn’t have enough support when they tried to breastfeed.

We need easy, cheap, quick access to lactation consultants. We need paid maternity leave. We need better information about how breastfeeding works. We need health care teams that support practices that make breastfeeding easier not more difficult (without any guilt about formula). We need supportive family, friends and people in general. This should be the aim of “breast is best” campaigns - getting women the practical supports they need to breastfeed successfully if they want to.

what we don’t need is to heap guilt and shame on moms that are busy making the best decisions the can for their families based on a complex array of life circumstances. 

TL;DR Yay for support and resources! Boo for shame and guilt!

 

[RosyDaisy]

All 3 of my sister's kids required a hypoallergenic formula. So, breast isn't always best. But, she made up her mind before they were born to formula feed. She quickly shut down anyone who tried to convince her to breastfeed. As long as the baby is healthy and being fed, it's nobody's damn business.

[adidas]

Fed is best. Period. 

Disclaimer- I breastfed one of mine and I bottle fed the other. The time I breastfed had absolutely nothing to do with me, my effort or how much I wanted to breastfeed. It takes two.

[Someone Out There]

20 hours ago, SweetJuly said:

I love this forum because there is just so much experience and knowledge bundled up together. Perhaps someone could advise me on the below?

I hope to breastfeed my daughter when I give birth later this year.

However, I had a breast reduction surgery some 15 years ago, and I read that there is a possibility I might not be able to breastfeed.

Do you know what happens if I produce milk after birth, but I physically can't breastfeed or even pump the milk? I assume at a certain point it will simply cease, but what happens until then?

And do you have any idea if/how I can find out before the birth if I will be physically able to breastfeed?

Unfortunately I don't seem to have any detailed records about my surgery, so I am not certain what exactly was done, and when I asked my gynaecologist he just gave me a blank stare and said he had never had that question, so if anyone has any idea or has been in the same situation, that would be really helpful  

Here is some audio about a lady who wrote a book about what she did http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/lifematters/why-it27s-ok-to-bottle-feed-your-baby/5775278. She had breast surgery at some point and ended up breast feeding and supplementing with formula as she didn't produce enough milk for the baby.  The book was co-authored with a Pediatrician.

Basically she is saying that while breastfeeding may be better, there is nothing wrong with formula.  There is also nothing wrong with doing a combination of breastfeeding and formula.  It should also be noted that for some women it takes a few days for milk to come in as well.

[LittleOwl]

16 hours ago, victoriasponge said:

Yeah, my grandparents live there so I know the area well (and will have a base to search from).

Ooh! Where do they live?  I was born in Notts and every member of my (large extended) family still live there

[BundleofJoy]

7 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

its developing nations, not third world countries.

As a person from a second world country, I prefer the name second/third world countries over developing nations. Developing nations sounds like it insinuates that these countries are underdeveloped and it reminds me of imperial times when my people were called savages that needed to be introduced to civilisation. Once again Western white people are telling us when we will be good enough to be considered developed, to be considered civilised. That's what it feels like to me. 

However, this is just my opinion. YMMV with other people from these countries. 

[HarleyQuinn]

18 hours ago, Melbelle said:

Thanks everyone for posting their breastfeeding experiences!  I'm expecting in April and the biggest internal conflict I have is whether or not to breastfeed.  I do not want to BF, my breasts are a bit of an emotional trigger for me and the thought of a baby attached to them is horrifying to me. 

This was a big part of why I chose to use formula and I'm glad I did. The hardest part was unfortunately the breastapo. I'm happy with the decision I made. Mine were well fed, since they weren't BF I was able to snuggle them without them trying to grab my shirt all the time and I felt I bonded when I did give them the bottle.

And they never got ear infections. I have no idea if there's a study with formula fed babies not getting them as much as BF ones (probably just a coincidence) but a lot of my friends that BF always had little ones with ear infections and I've never had to deal with that.  

[bananabread]

My attitude towards BF vs no-BF is a little complicated. A lot of studies suggest that BF is better for babies, but BF is not always an option. If there's any doubt that the baby isn't getting enough nutrition, or the mama cannot tolerate BF for some reason, then formula offers a wonderful solution. I plan to BF one day, but will not hesitate to use formula if the need arises. My future mother-in-law never attempted BF and used exclusively formula in the early 90s. She said she "didn't want to deal with all that." My fiance spent the entire first year of his life in agony, crying constantly, because his stomach could not tolerate any formula they tried to give him. (I believe his lifelong anxiety and lack of any deep emotional attachment with his parents are due at least in part to this trauma in his formative years.) It amazes me that his mother was willing to spend $50k a year on private school, but not willing to even attempt BF when he was clearly suffering so much.

So I guess my feeling is that BF is preferable, and it irks me when mothers don't even attempt it, especially if their child has problems tolerating formula. But formula is of course a great alternative (and vastly preferable to an underfed baby or tortured mama!!).

[victoriasponge]

4 hours ago, LittleOwl said:

Ooh! Where do they live?  I was born in Notts and every member of my (large extended) family still live there

Just out in the suburbs. Family live in the Beeston/Sawley/Long Eaton general areas. It's nice to have Notts so close by.

I know some people will judge me for this. But the idea of bf doesn't just terrify me, it slightly horrifies me. I have no problem with other women doing it, and even champion them trying it, which I know is stupid when I still hate the idea for myself. But the idea just makes me squirm, no idea why, loads of women I know loved the experience and are hugely supportive. I'll probably try but have accepted I'm probably setting myself up to fail with my attitude. But the breastapo make it worse, by acting like I'm not a real woman for feeling this way. Heck off with that. Fed babies are the best babies? I guess that's my thinking. And I do think maternal health (including mental health) is really important too. The other issue is that it's likely my boyfriend will be taking more time off with a newborn than I would, he's much more into that kind of thing than I am - and that makes bottle feeding pragmatic.

(Assuming no allergies, of course, the idea that @bananabread's fiance was suffering is horrendous)

[HarleyQuinn]

2 hours ago, bananabread said:

 

So I guess my feeling is that BF is preferable, and it irks me when mothers don't even attempt it, especially if their child has problems tolerating formula. But formula is of course a great alternative (and vastly preferable to an underfed baby or tortured mama!!).

I think mental health of the mother is important too, so no, if the idea of BF really gives you anxiety, you shouldn't try it. That's only going to make you hate every moment of feeding your baby and that's not good for anyone. 

Would your MIL even been able to breastfeed by the time she figured out her child couldn't tolerate any type of formula? That's a hard scenario.

ETA: Alimentum was the name of the formula I was spacing when I originally posted this. That's for allergies. 

[victoriasponge]

@HarleyQuinn I know someone who had special formula because of their allergies, not sure what was in that or how long it’s been around for (or even what allergy it treats). Might be a solution for some. 

[HarleyQuinn]

2 minutes ago, victoriasponge said:

@HarleyQuinn I know someone who had special formula because of their allergies, not sure what was in that or how long it’s been around for (or even what allergy it treats). Might be a solution for some. 

Yeah, Similac Alimentum is one I'm familiar with that's for allergies. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

2 hours ago, bananabread said:

My attitude towards BF vs no-BF is a little complicated. A lot of studies suggest that BF is better for babies, but BF is not always an option. If there's any doubt that the baby isn't getting enough nutrition, or the mama cannot tolerate BF for some reason, then formula offers a wonderful solution. I plan to BF one day, but will not hesitate to use formula if the need arises. My future mother-in-law never attempted BF and used exclusively formula in the early 90s. She said she "didn't want to deal with all that." My fiance spent the entire first year of his life in agony, crying constantly, because his stomach could not tolerate any formula they tried to give him. (I believe his lifelong anxiety and lack of any deep emotional attachment with his parents are due at least in part to this trauma in his formative years.) It amazes me that his mother was willing to spend $50k a year on private school, but not willing to even attempt BF when he was clearly suffering so much.

So I guess my feeling is that BF is preferable, and it irks me when mothers don't even attempt it, especially if their child has problems tolerating formula. But formula is of course a great alternative (and vastly preferable to an underfed baby or tortured mama!!).

I wouldn't chalk this up to not breastfeeding, it sounds more like his mother just couldn't be bothered in general.  You CAN bond with a child and not breastfeed, and it is down right fucking rude for someone who's never even had a child to be irked by what moms do or don't try to do parenting wise.  My detachment from my mother has nothing to do with being breastfed and everything to do with her being a horrible mother. Her sister breastfed all her kids and they all hate her too because she is as mean and hateful as my mother is.