Joy and Austin 18: 234 Days Since the Wedding and Counting

[Glasgowghirl]

21 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

A former friend of mine (who is a bit dim generally) used to put Mountain Dew in a bottle for her kid. She did all sorts of things that are not recommended, both while pregnant and with the baby. He ended up losing many of his baby teeth to decay before school age and she was just baffled as to how that could have happened.

Where I live has the worst record in Europe for child tooth decay, non fizzy juice should not be in bottles either, it is something I see kids having all the time and as someone yet to have kids it amazes me that these parents don't know how bad it is or the fact they don't care about how bad it is because it's only their baby teeth.

I remember hearing Leah from Teen Mom 2's mum saying she gave Leah's twins coffee on twitter, they were toddlers at the time Leah fed her kids a lot of junk and her kids. Addie was seen eating icing and sugar packets. She obviously learned her bad habits from her mother.

[SassyPants]

21 hours ago, Screamapillar said:

This morning I was actually marveling at what a respectful discourse about feeding we've had. I was wondering how long it would be before someone made it get heated.

New and expectant Moms reading this: do your thing. Ignore the shamers.

 

Retired Nicu nurse here.

Feed your hungry baby any nutritive liquid available to you that is developmentally appropriate and known for allowing babies to grow and flourish. Dispense said nutrition from your breasts or from whatever implement that is clean and safe, and that allows your baby to grow and flourish.

Do not shame any woman (yourself or others) who do the above and have baby (ies) that grow and flourish.

[VelociRapture]

30 minutes ago, Blue jay said:

Ugh. Am I really hearing shaming of moms that BF their toddlers after we collectively freaked out about shaming moms that formula feed? Really? Can we stop that please? Come on now.

I get that it might make people uncomfortable, but I’d like to point out that there was a time that seeing a pregnant woman in public was uncomfortable, and we just had to get over it because that was wrong to ask women to accommodate our discomfort.

I BF my toddler, and I can see how that airport story could have been me. I get why it would have made people uncomfortable, honestly, I probably would have been a tad uncomfortable while doing it too. But I can think of a million reasons why it might have been happening. (The one that jumps to mind is dealing with something important on the phone that required concentration and knowing my toddler was occupied while Bfing and not running all over the place).

I am not a the breastapo. I formula fed too. I don’t think shaming moms helps in either direction. Saying bfing is great until the kid can ask for it, sounds a lot like saying formula feeding is fine as long as you tried to breastfeed. Both are tinged with shaming. 

Can we please operate under the assumption that everyone is doing he best they can, because we often don’t understand people’s circumstances.

Most people discussing the public breastfeeding of toddlers have made it clear that while it may make them personally uncomfortable they fully support the mother’s right to do so. There are a few posts that could be considered approaching “shaming,” but I personally wouldn’t consider most of the posts made so far that way. 

ETA: But I do agree with your overall point. Whether a parent is giving breast milk or formula is no one else’s business and, again, every parent has the right to feed their child in public in the manner they prefer.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

3 minutes ago, Blue jay said:

But why do you care enough to have a judgement about it? Why do you get to determine what the appropriate cut off age is? 

Sorry but if you kid is old enough to play independently on a play ground s/he is old enough to drink from a cup in public, I don't care what they do at home that is their business.  It is about maintaining and setting boundaries for your child, and kids need that. This was also more to the point of people who saw children walking up to mom and not even asking for a drink just taking one and walking away.  That isn't acceptable, even if the kid was drinking out of YOUR glass, you teach them to ask before taking something from someone don't you? Isn't this the same thing? 

I've seen women nurse children in public that are 2-2.5 years old and I don't care, but I've never personally seen any mother allow a child to walk up to her in public and use her like a drinking fountain, others have and I find that to be unacceptable. The use as a drinking fountain, not extended breastfeeding.

[singsingsing]

I feel really weird about negatively judging women for 'whipping their boob out' or 'letting their boob hang out' in public. It's a boob. What do you think it's going to do, attack you? I understand if someone's just sitting there with their boobs exposed, that's generally a social faux pas, so one might assume that the woman is deliberately trying to cause discomfort, but how often does that actually happen? I know people have given examples, but I think it must be pretty rare. I can't remember the last time I even saw part of a woman's breast while she was breastfeeding in public, let alone breasts 'hanging out'.

It's legal where I live for women to go topless. I've never seen a woman go topless in public, because despite it being legal, it's still socially frowned upon. But breastfeeding is a completely different story. Babies have to eat. Women shouldn't be forced to seclude themselves just because they have a nursing infant. No one is going to be traumatized by seeing a breast in public. The same people who complain about women 'whipping their boobs out in a restaurant' to feed their infant probably watch Game of Thrones every Sunday night. Sorry, no sympathy.

[VineHeart137]

1 hour ago, Glasgowghirl said:

When I worked in KFC I saw parents put Pepsi in their kids bottles a few times. The kids always looked under 2. I was always tempted to say something but not my place and could have gotten into trouble from my boss. 

I saw a family in a parking lot once, the mom was filling baby bottles with Coke for her three kids. I felt bad for them and asked if they needed help because their car was in a weird place like it had broken down, the dad said he ran out of gas and needed to get somewhere for work. But then he declined my offer to buy him gas... So I wasn't really sure what to think. Maybe he was just looking for cash. Still feel bad for the kids though. And the mom looked exhausted. 

[VelociRapture]

9 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I feel really weird about negatively judging women for 'whipping their boob out' or 'letting their boob hang out' in public. It's a boob. What do you think it's going to do, attack you? I understand if someone's just sitting there with their boobs exposed, that's generally a social faux pas, so one might assume that the woman is deliberately trying to cause discomfort, but how often does that actually happen? I know people have given examples, but I think it must be pretty rare. I can't remember the last time I even saw part of a woman's breast while she was breastfeeding in public, let alone breasts 'hanging out'.

It's legal where I live for women to go topless. I've never seen a woman go topless in public, because despite it being legal, it's still socially frowned upon. But breastfeeding is a completely different story. Babies have to eat. Women shouldn't be forced to seclude themselves just because they have a nursing infant. No one is going to be traumatized by seeing a breast in public. The same people who complain about women 'whipping their boobs out in a restaurant' to feed their infant probably watch Game of Thrones every Sunday night. Sorry, no sympathy.

I actually saw a partially exposed breast the other day while a mom was nursing. I’m still getting used to the whole play group thing, so I wasn’t exactly expecting it (as stupid as that sounds.) Velocibaby and I pretty much just walked by like nothing was happening at all - it didn’t faze the other Mom or her toddler, so I didn’t let it faze me either. We all lived to see another day, unlike many of the characters on Game of Thrones.  

[Jenn The Heathen]

I cannot imagine what the preschool years would have been like with my sons if they were hopped up on caffeine in addition normal little boy energy. I’m exhausted just thinking about it.

My kids are 8 and 10 and they’ve still never had caffeinated soda.  They’re allowed caffeine free varieties for special occasions (the movies, sporting events, stuff like that), but that’s it.  Last thing those two need is MORE energy.

[Cheetah]

Dang, I saw that this topic was hot and thought maybe Joy had had the baby a little early or something.  

[louisa05]

18 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

INo one is going to be traumatized by seeing a breast in public. The same people who complain about women 'whipping their boobs out in a restaurant' to feed their infant probably watch Game of Thrones every Sunday night. Sorry, no sympathy.

I have never seen Game of Thrones. 

And I can verify that while not traumatized, your 26 year old nephew is going to be extremely uncomfortable and long remember that discomfort if he has to sit at a table with you for a half hour while your boob is on display. And your older brother will feel the same. 

[mango_fandango]

The only person who’d be traumatised by seeing a boob in public would be Steve Maxwell, but that guy is crazy. 

[FJismyheadship]

Sooo...

 I take it there's no baby.

[justoneoftwo]

I'm all for kids having boundaries, but when it comes to breastfeeding, isn't it the mother's boundaries that matter?  If she is okay with that behavior why do you care?  The kid isn't reaching for your top.  If he was thats not okay, but boundaries are different with different people, and with your mom a 2 year old may not have that boundary.  If the mom says thats fine, its fine.

[Blue jay]

37 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

independently on a play ground s/he is old enough to drink from a cup in public, I don't care what they do at home that is their business.  It is about maintaining and setting boundaries for your child, and kids need that. This was also more to the point of people who saw children walking up to mom and not even asking for a drink just taking one and walking away.  That isn't acceptable, even if the kid was drinking out of YOUR glass, you teach them to ask before taking something from someone don't you? Isn't this the same thing? 

Somehow I just can’t imagine hearing the same reaction about a 5 year old taking a drink out of his moms glass.

[Toothfairy]

I see it similar to parents not talking to kids about sex. Fundies are ok eith talking to kids about abortion but sex is off limits 

Porn is huge in America but we shame people for doing porn 

[Meggo]

5 minutes ago, FJismyheadship said:

Sooo...

 I take it there's no baby.

Wouldn't it be funny if Joy started this thread drift just so we'd stop with the baby wait talk?

I know she didn't - but I would imagine she's sitting back thinking "ahhhh - it's not all about me for once - awesome."

[GutenbergGirl]

22 hours ago, VineHeart137 said:

I thought she had maybe announced the sex or something.

Also, formula-fed mom who breastfed her own child for 18 months here- Just feed your kid, yo. Breast milk, formula, whatevs, as long as it ain't Nesquik you're good.

My 18 year old sister has a bottle-fed baby who is 9 months old.  Sister was complaining that he wouldn't sleep thru the night without his bottle of (regular cow's milk) chocolate milk!  YIKES!

I mean, yeah, putting a baby to bed with a propped bottle is bad enough... but this just blew my mind. It probably shouldn't,  since she has been feeding him pizza,  French fries, Mac and cheese, etc since he was about 4 months old.  (She would mash it up with her fingers first.)  

Our Granny and Mom have tried to talk to her, but she just tells them not to tell her how to parent.  They are afraid if they push too hard, she will cut off contact.  

So, I'm all for feeding your babies,  however works best for you, but use some common sense!  

(Disclaimer:  my children are older, but when they were babies, it was OK to prop a bottle for a short period, if you were there to keep an eye on baby.  The example that comes to mind:  

I was feeding baby.  Older toddler had a diaper blowout, everywhere BUT his diaper.  I propped baby's bottle long enough to clean toddler up. 

I don't know if that's still ok, or not, though!)

[Irishy]

I have to address this poor poor mother in law farce. Clearly your fiancé has a lot of issues with his mother and their relationship and you have internalised his pain. It is so absurd that you blame her and the lack of breastfeeding for their lack of bond or whatever. You mentioned he’s an only child, so clearly he was her FIRST baby. I’m guessing this was 80s or 90s. The majority of people bottlefed. It was very normal!! And if he cried, an inexperienced mum (hell any mum) is going to assume he’s HUNGRY! And feed him more! I really doubt she had the insight to blame the formula, at least not initially. It’s likely there was no doctor or nurse or anyone around her with breastfeeding expertise that could convince her to switch and relactate (and provide all the info on how to do that). You are blaming her for something you know nothing about! And neither does your fiancé. He cannot possibly remember! Neither of you can place yourselves in her shoes back at that time. This is the greatest load of nonsense I’ve ever read. Go and acquaint yourself with the intricacies of lactating after 9 months of pregnancy, delivery, crippling tiredness and the loss of a couple pints of blood give or take... then feel free to comment on how selfish she was.

[Mela99]

My only other comment on the whole debate debacle is this:

You have NO idea what it may have taken a woman to conceive/stay pregnant. She may still be struggling with feeling like a failure or less than a woman because her body could not do what nature intended. From personal experience, let me assure you -- it is only going to make her feel 100x worse if you rag on her for making decisions for herself and her baby. 

Me, I absolutely want to breastfeed. But that's my choice. It's not right, wrong or indifferent. It's just mine to make. If Tiny Human feels slighted someday if I can't, I'll be happy to fund a nice therapist for him. 

And you know what, if it doesn't work out, that's not my fault or my son's fault and anybody who wants to start shit about it can go sit in syrup and let the bees get them. 

[Irishy]

As for seeing actual real life breasts out in public... what do people think breasts are for? What is so offensive about skin with a pointy bit on it? Why does a person have to be discreet about feeding a baby? I fed my babies anywhere and everywhere (including bloody Starbucks) , and the only flesh on display was the back of their heads. But if someone has a slip and flashes a boob, so what? Do we really feel the need to comment in 2018??

[AlwaysExcited]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

I feel really weird about negatively judging women for 'whipping their boob out' or 'letting their boob hang out' in public. It's a boob. What do you think it's going to do, attack you? I understand if someone's just sitting there with their boobs exposed, that's generally a social faux pas, so one might assume that the woman is deliberately trying to cause discomfort, but how often does that actually happen? I know people have given examples, but I think it must be pretty rare. I can't remember the last time I even saw part of a woman's breast while she was breastfeeding in public, let alone breasts 'hanging out'.

It's legal where I live for women to go topless. I've never seen a woman go topless in public, because despite it being legal, it's still socially frowned upon. But breastfeeding is a completely different story. Babies have to eat. Women shouldn't be forced to seclude themselves just because they have a nursing infant. No one is going to be traumatized by seeing a breast in public. The same people who complain about women 'whipping their boobs out in a restaurant' to feed their infant probably watch Game of Thrones every Sunday night. Sorry, no sympathy.

I was nodding in agreement till last sentence. 

[MargaretElliott]

3 hours ago, melon said:

Oh,no.I was told NOT to hold my baby...that he would "manipulate" me.

Ah yes, the Derick Dillard school of parenting! Where babies can conceptualize the idea of sin before they can conceptualize that Mama isn't actually gone when she hides behind her hands during peekaboo!

[singsingsing]

6 minutes ago, AlwaysExcited said:

I was nodding in agreement till last sentence. 

Care to elaborate? I have no idea what about the last sentence would have contradicted the overall point of my post. I'd like to clarify if possible.

[Beermeet]

1 hour ago, louisa05 said:

I have never seen Game of Thrones. 

And I can verify that while not traumatized, your 26 year old nephew is going to be extremely uncomfortable and long remember that discomfort if he has to sit at a table with you for a half hour while your boob is on display. And your older brother will feel the same. 

Actually,  I feel the opposite.   I think it is very healthy that boys/young men get to experience the fact of life that boobs feed babies.  Boobs are fun but breastfeeding is a normal part of life.  Hell, it is life.  They don't just get to play with a female body and know naught of what else we can do with our body.  And, not all guys are grossed out or traumatized by a baby breastfeeding.  They can handle it, they have primal instincts too.  Sheltering men from what happens after impregnating a woman does no one any good generally speaking.  I always found new fathers discovering how much they want their baby to latch on properly and feed absolutely amazing.  Instincts kick in.  All of the sudden, they talk about it in detail!  

ETA: not even just fathers!  Brothers, cousins, friends.....when they love a female who had a baby they love too, they care and don't get grossed out.  They get into supportive protective mode.  It's wonderful!  

[Melbelle]

I'd like to take a minute and just thank everyone for the thoughtful and insightful information, opinions, and perspectives on feeding babies.  Even the comments that might have been perceived as judgmental reminded me of my favorite quote "we do not see people as they are, we see them as we are" by Nin.  Everyone's views are always colored by their personal experiences and for many, maybe most, it can be hard to step outside of that perspective, which is probably one of the foundations of the prevalent mommy shaming that occurs in our society.  

With regards to BF in public, if I decide to BF I know that I will not being doing it anywhere outside of my home, unless it's in a private bedroom at a family and/or friends home.  So my diaper bag will always have to include bottles and formula or pumped milk for those occasions.  (I've registered for a bottle/breast milk cooler that matches my diaper bag for this very reason and because it's cute!)  I absolutely respect and believe that every woman has a right to feed their child however necessary in public, but it is not something I would ever be comfortable doing. 

I do however have one major pet peeve about bf in public, that is actually about the location of the bf, not the bf itself.  I live in Colorado and breweries are the "thing" here.  Mr. Melbelle and I love going out to our local breweries, we also seek out craft brews on every trip we take.  A recent study came out showing bar attendance is down around 35% in Colorado and those people are now going to breweries instead.  Breweries in Colorado are kind of strange though, some do not serve food and seem more like bars, while others serve food and seem more like restaurants with good beer.  However, I've never seen a brewery that said "no children" or "no children after ??pm".  I want my breweries to be adult focused...the #1 reason people are there is to drink beer afterall...so when I see women bringing their baby and bf them at the bar or table I have to admit I'm annoyed and I start to question that person's common sense.  I also saw a group that held their 3yo's birthday party at a brewery, which also made me question the parent's common sense.  (So technically I guess my personal issue is about kids in places that are typically considered adult domains, not so much bf at all.)  The trend of kids in breweries is only growing and many breweries are actively encouraging it because it gets more people in the doors since they can bring their kids and still feel like they're having "adult" fun, but I just want there to be a few places left in the world that you can go for an adults only evening that are affordable, fun, and easy to get to!  Also, as soon as I see a baby or young child in a brewery I instantly hear Reese Witherspoon say inside my head, "you have a baby...in a bar!"   And to be perfectly honest, we'll likely bring our child to our favorite brewery occasionally, it is a restaurant and brewery and they do encourage children, but I know I'm going to feel guilty doing it!  

On a side note, does it take a little bit of time for alcohol to make its way into breast milk, because I've seen women bf and drinking beers at the same time???