Stockdale family murders

[Maxwell]

Yeah, I had kinda thought that might be a possibility BUT... if YOU held those beliefs, would you then send your wife (husband) to live with another family and allow another woman (man) into your home and grant them influence over your children?  I certainly wouldn't!  That's what confuses me so...

 

[hoipolloi]

4 minutes ago, Maxwell said:

Why would a family that believes that TV and video games will lead the destruction of the souls of their children even be involved in a TV show called "Wife Swap"? 

My guesses would be: (1) the money; (2) maybe some notion of being a "light on a hill" for the heathen TV audiences; (3) they couldn't back out of it once they'd signed the contract or whatever..

 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Number one reason = Money

The mother stated in the family manual that the farm wasn't breaking even and that's why the dad had an outside job (2 jobs?).  She mentioned they were going to have to do something about that soon. I also think money was the reason the boys had to work for every thing they had -- including clothes I think.

I realize that the family manual was 10 years old, but I don't believe anything had changed 10 years later for the 2 sons still at home. Imagine living 10 more years with all that control and repression.

Perhaps with the 2 oldest off and married and the youngest going to college, Jacob had been designated as the son to stay home and do the farm work.

No college or girlfriend for you buddy. No ever leaving home for you Jacob. Just the rest of your life under that oppressive 24/7 schedule -- with the mustard blueberry drink (disgusting) and that damned castor oil.

There has been no mention of it, but I'd bet real money that there was physical punishment for rule infractions -- even for the adult sons left at home.

 

[Hane]

16 hours ago, BirdgirlH said:

Check it out - bit unusual, the colour, but I sorta like it!

That looks like Revlon's color Posh, a favorite of mine around Christmastime!

[amendgitan]

10 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

As much as we may despise him Josh Duggar isn't a criminal since being a cheater, an asshole and a cult member isn't a crime.

I agree with all you've said. Good post. One exception- Josh is a criminal. Just because he wasn't charged doesn't mean he didn't commit a crime when he molested five little girls. He was a teen offender and the statue of limitations ran. But he admits to the crime. 

[ADoyle90815]

I also wouldn't be surprised if there were actual or threats of physical punishment going on in that family, even for the adult sons still at home. My opinion is that this is why Jacob freaked out and said he were going to burn in hell on Wife Swap when they were told they were now allowed to have fun. While the families were told to exaggerate things for the show, I don't think that comment was only for the show, but that he was that afraid of breaking his mom's rules.

[amendgitan]

12 hours ago, BirdgirlH said:

Blessedlittleblog has a post up about it!

She or he made a wonderful and important point about isolating and sheltering and censoring as hard as possible to avoid the evils of the outside world, and then having your son kill you and a sibling, becoming a murderer, anyhow. 

Its true. There is nothing these families can do to totally prevent evil from touching their lives. Of course I believe that what they do actually invites it in. 

5 minutes ago, ADoyle90815 said:

I also wouldn't be surprised if there were actual or threats of physical punishment going on in that family, even for the adult sons still at home. My opinion is that this is why Jacob freaked out and said he were going to burn in hell on Wife Swap when they were told they were now allowed to have fun. While the families were told to exaggerate things for the show, I don't think that comment was only for the show, but that he was that afraid of breaking his mom's rules.

Where can I find a link about that? I missed something. 

[Howl]

8 hours ago, calvinball said:

Anyway, Laurie Tonkovic, the mother who swapped with the Stockdales, has chimed in: http://www.tmz.com/2017/06/19/wife-swap-family-murder-other-mother/ . Her comment about Jacob:

"When I switched the rules and I was going to let them have fun, have the television and video games and experience life a little bit, he ran outside crying. And when I went out after him, I asked him what was wrong, and he said that his mom and dad tell him that basically he would ‘burn in hell."

Didn't catch this the first time around.  A teenaged boy crying with terror over burning in hell if he watched TV or played a video game.  Straight up psychological abuse. 

[Walking Cat Bed]

I have sympathy for young Josh Duggar -- who was struggling with behaviors he knew were wrong, but kept getting away with them. Whose parents were more interested in keeping the family secret hidden than actually helping their children (getting Josh real help OR actually protecting their daughters). But when his behavior became deliberately predatory? Nope. 

 

Jacob is much more like Gypsy Rose Blanchard -- a child who was abused their entire lives, who saw no escape with their abuser still living. And there's a lot we don't know yet; we just know that there was ongoing, severe control in that house. 

[Howl]

2 minutes ago, Walking Cat Bed said:

And there's a lot we don't know yet; we just know that there was ongoing, severe control in that house. 

Well, killing someone is the ultimate form of control. 

[Walking Cat Bed]

26 minutes ago, Howl said:

Well, killing someone is the ultimate form of control. 

It's at least an attempt to gain control.

 

If the assumptions that the mother was abusive are correct and Jacob had a psychotic break, he'd do best with a psychiatric facility than prison. (Assuming he survives his suicide attempt.)

[BirdgirlH]

Found the police report (on radaronline, so grain of salt, although it looks legit). Apparently one shot family member in the kitchen, one in the upstairs bathroom and Jacob in the entrance way

[Snarkle Motion]

In the brief clip his response about the chicken being "a little bit not dead" was also kind of bizarre. Not something I would have noticed but coupled with what the other mom described about the "burn in hell" comments makes me wonder about his mental state and developmental level. I wonder if he was autistic or suffering from other mental health issues that made the family seek out healthy eating, limiting influences, and strict discipline. They didn't always live on the farm and grow their own food, right? I can't remember where I read that but for some reason I got the impression that they uprooted themselves and changed their lifestyle.

Really, this is a psa for gun control laws and gun safety. So much more likely to kill a family member by suicide (or homicide) or plain old accident rather than protect your family from intruders. 

[BirdgirlH]

New statement by oldest brother Calvin:

""I don't know why Jacob did what he did last week, but I do know he is my brother; I speak for our family when I say we love him and forgive him. The prayers and support for my family have been deeply appreciated and we ask for continued prayers for Jacob’s healing - body, mind, and spirit."

[hoipolloi]

An article with information on the memorial services (and the statement @BirdgirlH quotes) also says that Jacob is expected to survive:

Quote

Jacob Stockdale's medical condition is still listed as critical but his prognosis is optimistic for recovery, according to a statement by the family.

 

[ViolaSebastian]

It'll be interesting if he's able to talk about his motive. My personal theory is undiagnosed mental illness coupled with a lifetime of abuse. 

[nobleandstrong]

The Stockdale's performed at my parents' church yearly for 8 years; this spring included.  My parents liked them so much that they own 4 of their CDs and knew how to quickly find their youtube performances.  

They really liked what the Stockdale's had done with their family.  Not sure how I would have been able to handle it if they had actually gone to that level of isolation and deprivation when I still lived at home.  Walking out the door without any money or prospects is very scary when one is taught to fear and despise the homeless and poor.  

[LadyCrow1313]

This is a very sad situation, no doubt about it, and I do feel bad for the surviving family members. 

Do you think this could serve as a warning to Fundies that are extremely controlling over their kids? Not that I'm saying that it'd definitely happen, of course, but there could be a possibility of such a thing...

 

[Coy Koi]

1 hour ago, LadyCrow1313 said:

Do you think this could serve as a warning to Fundies that are extremely controlling over their kids? Not that I'm saying that it'd definitely happen, of course, but there could be a possibility of such a thing...

I wouldn't think so really. When it comes to consequences for people committing crimes (somewhat different subject but I think it's related), the two main factors that affect a person's chances of engaging in criminal behavior are how likely they perceive that there will be a punishment, and how soon they perceive a punishment will happen. Severity of punishment is not much of a factor, which is why the death penalty doesn't deter crime. People aren't concerning themselves with the tiny chance that they could be executed in 20 years if they commit a crime, and people aren't thinking their child might snap and kill them in 20 years if they control them so rigidly.

In both cases, the better option is a high probability of swift consequences. For incredibly controlling parents who isolate their kids and homeschool, that could mean more oversight for homeschoolers, and social services getting involved when the rigidity rises to the level of abuse, whether physical or emotional. Calm the hell down or lose your kids. Instead, we tend to tiptoe around these Christian whackjobs who demand "religious freedom" to abuse their children.

[Gellhorn]

Wow.  The manual is so smug in its tone.  Pity that Jacob didn't feel able to walk away with his violin, some clothes and whatever money he could scrounge instead of killing his mother and brother.  The last thing I read indicates he killed her first.  I'm going to guess that his brother was shot because he heard the shot and went to investigate it.  So sad.

On the GFM page, the photo doesn't show Jacob in the frame.  I wonder if things have been building up for a long time.  

It reminds me, a little bit, to what happened to Creigh Deeds' and his son.  Of course once a LAWMAKER has experienced the horrors of the shitty mental health options in this country they can do something about it.  It doesn't interest them, or it's regarded as problems by "those people", until it happens to one of their own.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/virginia-state-senator-injured-in-home-another-person-found-dead-inside/2013/11/19/3e419ac4-512c-11e3-9fe0-fd2ca728e67c_story.html?utm_term=.1de372105abe

http://www.dailypress.com/health/dp-fea-health-notes-0627-20150626-story.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/va-sen-creigh-deeds-is-using-a-6-million-lawsuit-over-his-sons-suicide-to-force-change/2016/01/07/64c5e026-b569-11e5-9388-466021d971de_story.html?utm_term=.263339ba4160

[BirdgirlH]

Pretty sure that's Jacob in the background on the GFM page, @Gellhorn (with the longish hair).

[NachosFlandersStyle]

Speaking of the Blanchard family, there's a new HBO documentary about them that I cannot recommend highly enough. It's called Mommy Dead and Dearest, but it's not quite as exploitative as the title suggests. They interview Gypsy from prison, and although she's clearly a bit of a mess and obviously doesn't love living behind bars, she does say that she has more freedom now than she did with her mother.

As for this case and examples like Andrea Yates, I think the relationship between severe mental illness and abuse is complicated. People don't become schizophrenic because of their upbringing or a bad marriage-- those problems arise in people from all kinds of backgrounds. But if you have the illness and you're living in an environment where it's difficult to get treatment or you're even being punished for your symptoms, it's likely to present in a way that's much more troubling. Likewise, just because someone has a mental illness doesn't mean they're ever going to have criminal tendencies of any kind, but if you take someone with impaired decision-making abilities and put them in an environment where violence, abuse, and black-and-white thinking are the norm, they may take those behaviors and run with them.

[Gellhorn]

5 hours ago, BirdgirlH said:

Pretty sure that's Jacob in the background on the GFM page, @Gellhorn (with the longish hair).

I thought it was James, not Jacob.  I should probably find my glasses.

[hoipolloi]

Not exactly an update, but more discussion & background in this article from Saving Country Music.

[starfish]

This reminds me a little bit of the Bever family killings in Broken Bow, OK near Tulsa.  Fundie homeschoolers, although the Bevers were reclusive. The two oldest boys killed both parents and three siblings. A 13 year old sister managed to call 911 and the brothers forgot abot the 2 year old little sister.