Stockdale family murders

[Jellybean]

Wow @Coy Koi I've never ever heard anyone else experience that after effect of medical hallucinations (and I've never told anyone in real life except Mr Jellybean). Thank you for sharing that. 

And @Curious too. It's not easy to share things like that - they seem so real and it's terrifying. @Coy Koiis totally right about one's own brain knowing how to scare one. It's so validating to hear that other people have experienced this. 

I was in hospital years ago with raging pneumonia. I was on a medical ward waiting for a bed on the high dependency unit and has been in a coma for a couple of days. When I started to come round I was so confused and disoriented I thought that the patterns on the curtains were words - notes that were important. I also thought there was a fire in my block of flats so I kept trying to go to the window of the hospital to see if I could see smoke, but all I could see was Big Ben and the Houses of Parliament. Every time I heard sirens (quite often in a big city hospital) I thought they were fire engines rushing to the fire in my flat, where my precious cat was home alone. I was devastated at the thought that she needed me and I wasn't going to help her (predictably enough, they wouldn't let me leave). Horrible stuff, and hospitals are so badly set up for anything like that. 

Have you read 'Ink in the Blood'? It's very short - published as an article by Hilary Mantel about infection and hallucinations after an operation she had. It's fascinating and beautifully written. 

[EowynW]

On 7/3/2017 at 10:45 AM, VVV said:

 I don't know if it is open or concealed carry; I believe it might be concealed. And professors have the option of posting a sign on their office doors prohibiting guns, but any shared space which of course includes classrooms cannot have them banned.   There was a fight over the dorms and I don't remember the outcome.  Of course excessive alcohol use in combination with easily accessible guns is just asking for trouble. 

it's only concealed on campus. Which means, in your state, that not just anyone can bring a gun with them because our can only carry in public if you have your LTC. Which in my here you can only get after a FBI background check, class, test and shooting test. Most of the people who go through the time,effort, training and spending the money to become licensed and legal will not be the ones you usually should worry about anywhere. 

[Maxwell]

With all this talk of hallucinations and paranoia and hearing things, this seems fitting.  Hope it make some of you smile.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Curious]

9 hours ago, DancingPhalanges said:

Last year Topomax was added on to my treatment plan at the time.

Interesting.  I was on a HUGE dose of Neurontin (Gabapentin), something like 900mg which was causing my hallucinations.  If I had been with it enough to ask what my meds were, I would have been able to tell them that I didn't do well on 100mg a few years earlier so 900mg was probably a bad idea.  Topamax and Gabapentin are similar medications.   They put me on Topamax when I was finally taken off the Gabapentin.

Due to a bad reaction to ambien a few years ago, I have refused ALL sleeping aids, but found after my quick brush with death, I couldn't sleep at night when I was transferred to a SNF that had a slow aide response time.  The psychologist (psychiatrist?) at the facility put me on Trazadone and it works well for me.  No weird grogginess the next day, no dreams that I remember (so I assume no nightmares), etc.

I know what it's like to have a spouse/loved one to try to understand, but they really can't.  If you want to talk, just shoot me a PM.

Good luck!

10 hours ago, livinginthelight said:

@Curious, how completely terrifying. Thanks for sharing, and for explaining what it is like for the person suffering the hallucination. I hope you never have to go through that again.

I hope I never go through it again either.  Fortunately, mine are (so far) all induced by medication, so resolve as soon as the drug is changed and out of my system.   I can't imagine what it would be like to live that way on a daily basis for much or all of your life.

I talk about all the stuff that I go through openly and honestly because I figure if telling my experiences help even one person with what they are dealing with, some good came of it.

[HarryPotterFan]

@Maxwell  What did I just watch?

I hallucinated when I was on pain killers post back surgery. I remember hallucinati policemen, and beig afraid I'd be arrested for using pain killers. I also IMed a friend about it while hallucinating, it really freaked her out.

[anniebgood]

@FluffyBunny I had to do a cold turkey off Ambien because my doctor didn't pay attention to me even after I told him I needed to be weaned. My PCP put me on Trazadone and I sleep quite well now. I do have odd dreams now and again and could swear they are real.I also take Klonopin BID because I do have a tendency to have panic attacks. 

When I had a cardiac event a few years ago they put nitro patches on me and I had horrible nightmares. I'd wake up crying and my monitor went nuts. They stopped them and I fell back into a good sleep. 

 

[LadyCrow1313]

Many moons ago, my aunt hallucinated that ninjas were on her ceiling fan. I can't say for sure if she was on any meds at that time, but she had a long history of being an alcoholic (& I know that can't be good for your brain). Within the last couple of years, she's sadly come down w/Alzheimer's & is now in a nursing home.

 

[ladymissdiva]

Quote

 James, our youngest brother, has always been a catalyst of family fun. Aside from being a gifted musician, James enjoyed dancing and had an innate love of people. James was working on a business degree and hoped to go into the business side of entertainment. He leaves behind many friends and a family that love him dearly. My brother, Jacob, is still in critical condition and we are praying for his physical recovery as our family makes funeral plans and begins the healing process.

Does anyone else find it interesting that Calvin Stockdale's statement doesn't mention his mother?

[Palimpsest]

12 minutes ago, ladymissdiva said:

Does anyone else find it interesting that Calvin Stockdale's statement doesn't mention his mother?

Yes.

ETA, I haven't gone through all of the dirt on this one yet but I am seeing red flags all over.  It was bad.

Calvin's statement, not mentioning Mom, says a whole lot.

[ladymissdiva]

50 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Calvin's statement, not mentioning Mom, says a whole lot.

Sometimes what we don't say, says the most. I really feel sorry for this young man and hope he gets the help he needs.

[Howl]

2 minutes ago, ladymissdiva said:

I really feel sorry for this young man and hope he gets the help he needs.

Won't he be charged with murder when he has recovered sufficiently?

[ladymissdiva]

5 minutes ago, Howl said:

Won't he be charged with murder when he has recovered sufficiently?

I'm sure he will, and he'll very likely be sentenced to prison or a mental institution where he will (hopefully) get medication and therapy. My gut tells me he needed both and wasn't allowed to access them.

[lawlifelgbt]

I occasionally hallucinate sound, if I am super tired or using sleeping meds. Mostly ordinary stuff like a cat meowing or someone saying my name, or a bit from a familiar podcast or radio program.

Maybe twice in my life though, I have had a combination of THE WORST song "earworm" and extreme tiredness. Then I literally hear the song!

[sawasdee]

I had a very high fever a few months ago, and during it had long conversations with Grandma Clampett.......

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

18 hours ago, LadyCrow1313 said:

Many moons ago, my aunt hallucinated that ninjas were on her ceiling fan. I can't say for sure if she was on any meds at that time, but she had a long history of being an alcoholic (& I know that can't be good for your brain). Within the last couple of years, she's sadly come down w/Alzheimer's & is now in a nursing home.

Long term alcohol abuse can affect the brain in similar ways as Alzheimer's disease. When my grandfather needed to go to a nursing home because grandma couldn't handle him alone anymore, we called it Alzheimer's disease, like she did. Privately, my mom pointed out to me that his being a long-time alcoholic may have been an underlying cause. (I found this, but I just skimmed it:  https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh25-4/299-306.htm )

Either way, it's very hard on family. I'm sorry about your aunt.

[Ozlsn]

7 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Calvin's statement, not mentioning Mom, says a whole lot.

I took it more as they'd divided up the statements in the family - the father's focused on Kathy, Calvin's focused on James. Not sinister, although personally I probably would have done a joint statement on both. But they may have wanted to acknowledge each individually, and the separate releases were more to do that. I still would have released them as being jointly written though.

[really rookie]

Such indignation over an inaccurate narrative.

Ask any of the other 400-500 some people at their public memorial service whether they were isolated.

The sons credit their mother's careful tutelage for their ability to achieve some of their life goals.

Their public statements aren't crafted to give critics fodder for microanalysis. They chose to include people they don't even know with info about the most gut wrenching personal tragedy most of us will never face.

If indeed this was a horrific brush with mental illness (not determined at this time), this would not be the first such story. Such sickness of mind can and does affect people from all walks of life and can strike on a time table none of us can even foresee.

It is obvious the posters in this thread do not know this family personally. I do. 

 

 

 

 

[Jasmar]

Of course the boys said good things about how their mother micromanaged ... um, raised them. Google Stockholm Syndrome.

I hope all involved are getting the (qualified) help they really need.

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 hours ago, really rookie said:

Such indignation over an inaccurate narrative.

Ask any of the other 400-500 some people at their public memorial service whether they were isolated.

The sons credit their mother's careful tutelage for their ability to achieve some of their life goals.

Their public statements aren't crafted to give critics fodder for microanalysis. They chose to include people they don't even know with info about the most gut wrenching personal tragedy most of us will never face.

If indeed this was a horrific brush with mental illness (not determined at this time), this would not be the first such story. Such sickness of mind can and does affect people from all walks of life and can strike on a time table none of us can even foresee.

It is obvious the posters in this thread do not know this family personally. I do. 

Could you give us some more info? Since none of us know them it's a lot of speculation and I think everyone would be glad to hear what you know about the family. 

[really rookie]

Out of respect for the family I do not wish to contribute details that would put them at risk for further criticisms and speculation (the post just after mine is evident that is distinctly a possibility).

I will say they were well known and very respected members of the community. They will be missed very much.

[JermajestyDuggar]

8 minutes ago, really rookie said:

Out of respect for the family I do not wish to contribute details that would put them at risk for further criticisms and speculation (the post just after mine is evident that is distinctly a possibility).

I will say they were well known and very respected members of the community. They will be missed very much.

If you don't want to correct any postings then we will most likely just go on the info we have. Which is what the paper reports, social media, and the episode of Wife Swap. 

[purjolok84]

I have to agree - of course we don't know everything that went on with the Stockdales. We don't know them apart from the information they previously chose to put out to the public, and now the information that we have today. Coming here to tell us off because you believe we have things so wrong but then backpedaling like that is not going to do much to change our minds. Or make you sound credible.

[Lurky]

10 hours ago, really rookie said:

It is obvious the posters in this thread do not know this family personally. I do.

With respect, unless you get verified by the moderators, which they will do for people, we have literally no reason to think you really do know them.  A lot of people come onto FJ claiming to personally know people we talk about, and it turns out they... don't.  If you want to chastise us with some credibility, contact the mod team.

(Of course, feel free to disagree without verification - that's done all the time - just don't expect that you'll be treated as more than the average poster)

[VVV]

6 hours ago, really rookie said:

Out of respect for the family I do not wish to contribute details that would put them at risk for further criticisms and speculation (the post just after mine is evident that is distinctly a possibility).

You do realize that you could be any random stranger in the world, claiming to know a family in the news, right? Unless you provide some sort of evidence that you are who you say you are, I think most of us will continue to form our opinions based on publically available information.

My opinion is that the upbringing described in the Wife Swap manual is horrific.

[Palimpsest]

10 hours ago, really rookie said:

Out of respect for the family I do not wish to contribute details that would put them at risk for further criticisms and speculation

If you are indeed close to the family, my condolences on your loss.

You aren't going to stop us from discussing this, however.  I would also advise you to avoid Websleuths (linked above in this thread) especially if Jacob recovers enough to stand trial for the murders of his mother and brother.  Posters there tend to very pro death penalty.  You might find it upsetting if you are fond of Jacob.  If it does go to trial, I think there may be mitigating factors in play.

Quote

I will say they were well known and very respected members of the community. 

Yeah, you might find it surprising how often people say that when a tragedy like this happens.  Then you find out that even "pillars of the community" are hiding very ugly family secrets and rampant abuse.  

13 hours ago, really rookie said:

The sons credit their mother's careful tutelage for their ability to achieve some of their life goals.

As I said, there are red flags all over this one.  Even if that manual from Wife Swap was exaggerated for the show, it still demonstrated (IMO) pathological levels of control.  Given the fact that the parents appeared to be determined to limit all the information their sons received, I bet their life goals were limited also.

Quote

If indeed this was a horrific brush with mental illness (not determined at this time), this would not be the first such story.

I agree mental illness cuts across all demographics, but it is actually quite rare for there to be absolutely no warning signs before a psychotic break results in a double murder and attempt at suicide.  Also I ask, whose mental illness?  Again, I suspect that the levels of control exerted over the sons by their parents approach the pathological. 

You might want to do a bit of research.  This is one place to start that will give you an idea of the dark side of homeschooling and the way some (not all) people use homeschooling to hide abuse.     https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/

We have threads here on the Jeub family.  They also appeared on reality TV.  The 4 eldest daughters have now escaped the excessive control waged over them by their parents.  Cynthia, in particular, has very interesting insights.

HA also keeps a list of criminal cases of abuse and homicide. "Respected members of the community" have been convicted of horrific abuse and murder.  Trigger Warning:  You need a strong stomach to read these cases. http://hsinvisiblechildren.org/

I'd also recommend a look at the Papa Pilgrim Hale case because the Hales also had a blue grass band.  The Hales were isolated, but they were also frequently in full view of the greater public through performances.  No-one intervened, even when they thought the whole family situation was peculiar, because Papa Pilgrim was so "charming."