Stockdale family murders

[BirdgirlH]

54 minutes ago, Gellhorn said:

I thought it was James, not Jacob.  I should probably find my glasses.

I think James is the one directly in front of him. You've got parents and three brothers in the foreground and Jacob (with presumably a niece and the grandfather) in the background, I believe.

so far, all of their official statements have actually seemed quite loving and forgiving towards Jacob.

[milkteeth]

On 6/16/2017 at 6:45 PM, nastyhobbitses said:

I read an article in Newsweek about "family annihilators" -- people who kill their entire families and then usually themselves -- and some psychologists said that they are more often than not middle-class white men who have failed in some way to fulfill societal ideals of middle class white masculinity: financial success, independence, a "perfect" (submissive) family. If you're a clean-cut white guy who's been told all his life by external and internal forces that you have to be the big strong man with a perfectly fuckable wife who pumps out child after child whom you support with lots of money (and no debt), and instead you're sitting at home with your weird parents who demand success from you that they never gave you the chance to chase, you fit that profile pretty darned well.

 

From Ma Stockdale's Family Manual: 

Teaching a child that it is ok to fail is not acceptable in my book. I never pass the boys if they have a C or even a B they have to achieve an A grade in a subject before moving on. That way they are working towards mastering the subject.

 

I wonder if Jacob was struggling in some area like being able to get into/succeed at college. Combine his mother's teaching with his isolation and no wonder he felt like he has no way out. 

[Hane]

10 hours ago, LadyCrow1313 said:

This is a very sad situation, no doubt about it, and I do feel bad for the surviving family members. 

Do you think this could serve as a warning to Fundies that are extremely controlling over their kids? Not that I'm saying that it'd definitely happen, of course, but there could be a possibility of such a thing...

 

I don't think so. The kinds of fundies we follow here would think, "That couldn't possibly happen with us--it's obvious THEY were doing something wrong!"

[seattlechic]

Holy. Bluegrass. Shit.

 

WOW. I will follow this closely both here and on my true crime forum. 

[BirdgirlH]

I don't think so. The kinds of fundies we follow here would think, "That couldn't possibly happen with us--it's obvious THEY were doing something wrong!"

Yes, that's my take as well. Maybe some would even think "must isolate ("protect") MORE, no outside contact except monitored, no FB, and that's definitely a no for college now ..."

 
WOW. I will follow this closely both here and on my true crime forum. 

Which true crime forum is that? I like to follow some occasionally with cases that strike a chord

[Zola]

If we're talking true crime forums, may I suggest:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?340887-Stockdale-Family-(Wifeswap)-Murder-Suicide-OH

They start talking about the Duggars on page 3.

[Carol]

I have some opinions about this but i want to stress that they are opinions, only.  I am not diagnosing anything.

I do not get the impression that Jacob suffered from traditional mental illness, ie., schizophrenia or bi-polar disorder.  My guess is that he has probably been suffering from hyper anxiety since an early age.  I'm also guessing that he may have been his mother's golden boy, the most talented, the best looking and the one that stood to prove her worth as a perfect mother who raised her children in a perfect home under the perfect guidance. 

While she projected all of the above on him I also suspect that he was demeaned by her, made fun of because he didn't have her toughness or that of his siblings.  While he thought his demeanor was what his mother demanded...compliance, perfection, absolute adherence to her standards, down deep she saw him as a weakling.

You can throw exactly the same thing at 4-5 separate siblings and they will all react individually.  It sounds like 3 of his brothers had stronger egos and were able to adjust their lives enough to follow family rules.  When they got the chance to leave, they did.  I suspect Jacob, because of the pressure of his mother/father, thought he wasn't capable or deserving of going anywhere.

Whatever the straw that broke his back, I think he snapped out of a sense of despair.  He was never going to get it right.  He just wasn't good enough. 

Again, just my gut feeling based on my own history and the people I've known.

[BirdgirlH]

You raise some very good points@Carol and have basically put into words what I've been thinking

[VaSportsMom]

Check it out - bit unusual, the colour, but I sorta like it! [emoji4]

I'm late but I love the color. I can't remember the last time I saw this tactic used but I miss it. I used to get lots of great mani/pedi ideas when the trolls came to play.

[BirdgirlH]

I'm late but I love the color. I can't remember the last time I saw this tactic used but I miss it. I used to get lots of great mani/pedi ideas when the trolls came to play.

Haha, I had only just read some of common abbreviations and FJ slang and decided it was a good time to try it out [emoji4]. At least on my phone, it brought us to a sweet new page!

[Aine]

9 hours ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

I think the relationship between severe mental illness and abuse is complicated. People don't become schizophrenic because of their upbringing or a bad marriage-- those problems arise in people from all kinds of backgrounds. But if you have the illness and you're living in an environment where it's difficult to get treatment or you're even being punished for your symptoms, it's likely to present in a way that's much more troubling

This is an over-simplification. There was a massive population-wide Swedish study (the good ole Swedes follow basically everyone for a long time) that then looked at identical twins given up for adoption to different homes by parents that included at least one diagnosed schizophrenic. Not a SINGLE one of those children developed schizophrenia if they were raised in a non-stressful environment whereas their identical twin did when raised in an environment that involved divorce, intense bullying, or abuse. 

Nature and nurture interact. People from all kinds of backgrounds develop schizophrenia but it is generally accepted that a combination of genetic vulnerability and significant life stress (including a divorce) can trigger it in the prodromal and active period from about 13-26. Epigenetics at work. This doesn't mean his parents were responsible as such *if* he was schizophrenic but they almost definitely didn't help the chances of him developing it. 

PTSD and severe depression and hopelessness are also likely causes.

[purjolok84]

Someone further up mentioned that Jacob might have had autism and that could have come into play, based on a joke he made on an almost dead chicken.

Not that it couldn't be a possibility (there has been one or two school shooters or young male adult murderers who have been diagnosed with ASD or Aspergers, but they aren't the norm) but I feel uncomfortable affixing such a label to Jacob. Joking about hurting animals is not something that generally an Aspie would do. It seems to me that it's more of an awkwardness situation - his personality has been shaped by having to race to the breakfast table for blueberry mustard drinks, memorising songs on the toilet and fearing hell. He was so isolated that I could envision he may have come across as almost autistic- if you don't interact in a natural way with others and you only have your brothers to talk to, then you're going to come across as weird and awkward. And then you make a weird joke about almost killing a chicken and it doesn't translate well.

[seattlechic]

17 hours ago, Zola said:

If we're talking true crime forums, may I suggest:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?340887-Stockdale-Family-(Wifeswap)-Murder-Suicide-OH

They start talking about the Duggars on page 3.

That's the one. 

[Gellhorn]

20 hours ago, BirdgirlH said:

I think James is the one directly in front of him. You've got parents and three brothers in the foreground and Jacob (with presumably a niece and the grandfather) in the background, I believe.

so far, all of their official statements have actually seemed quite loving and forgiving towards Jacob.

I haven't read anything her sons had to say about their mother.  

I'm glad they seem loving and forgiving towards Jacob but I wouldn't expect them to say anything else.  We'll see what they do once he's recovered enough to be in custody.  I hope they will follow through with actions to match those words.

[Walking Cat Bed]

My casual (some academic knowledge, but no professional experience) understanding of mental illness and abuse is that the latter is more likely to exacerbate the former than to cause it -- if a highly anxious teenager lives in an abusive home, they'll be more anxious. If the same highly anxious teenager lived in a home where their parents helped them deal with that anxiety, they (the teenager) would have an easier time dealing with that anxiety. It's not always that easy (especially when dealing with personality disorders or severe mental illness), but a kid with supportive parents tends to have an easier time with mental health.

 

Based on my experience, which involved public school, very occasionally being allowed to "earn" social outings other than church, and a lot of yelling...it was really difficult to manage anxiety and ADD when everything was either a responsibility or a reward. There wasn't much fun for the sake of fun, unless it was something my parents wanted to do or something that had me quietly sitting and doing whatever (like reading), and that was *still* something I had to earn. It's a crappy way to grow up even with some freedom. 

[Edhelfin]

Good God... This reminds me of another Wife Swap family, Haigwoods. Came across them on Yuku boards and watched a few clips. They were obsessed with healthy food (i.e. raw chicken, raw eggs, decayed meat) lived in a farm, had two isolated, homeschooled teen kids. The son seemed to struggle controlling his anger. I felt so bad for those kids. TV producers should not promote these loonie parents!!!

[MayMay1123]

19 hours ago, Zola said:

If we're talking true crime forums, may I suggest:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?340887-Stockdale-Family-(Wifeswap)-Murder-Suicide-OH

They start talking about the Duggars on page 3.

thanks for the link...they closed the abby and libby thread and the creato case was a mistrial (i have a somewhat personal link to that one) so now there's something new to read there for me

[onekidanddone]

23 hours ago, milkteeth said:

Teaching a child that it is ok to fail is not acceptable in my book. I never pass the boys if they have a C or even a B they have to achieve an A grade in a subject before moving on.

Oh for fucks sake.  I was thrilled when my daughter lifted her failing math grade up to a B. It was a B by the skin of her teeth mind you an 80.2 or something like that. She worked very hard for that grade. I am not giving the shooter a pass for murder. but that being said I feel like crying even thinking about putting a child through that pressure.

[Jucifer]

Just a caution for anyone trying the green nail polish- use an undercoat. 

I turned my toenails green a few years ago. It wasn't pretty.

[Snarkangel Gabriel]

This is just so tragic. I suspect the "full story" is complicated but it cannot help having been raised in such a dogmatic environment where transgressions will send you to hell with no concept of degrees of right and wrong or even whether or not something is right or wrong. Swearing - sin, sending you to hell. Sex outside marriage - sin, sending you to hell. Being gay - sin, sending you to hell. Drinking alcohol - sin, sending you to hell. Shooting family members - sin, sending you to hell. 

[purjolok84]

Oh for fucks sake.  I was thrilled when my daughter lifted her failing math grade up to a B. It was a B by the skin of her teeth mind you an 80.2 or something like that. She worked very hard for that grade. I am not giving the shooter a pass for murder. but that being said I feel like crying even thinking about putting a child through that pressure.

Sometimes one kid's struggled for B is another kid's easy A. And vice versa. As long as the kid has learned something relevant and meaningful, the grade shouldn't matter.

[PennySycamore]

@Edhelfin, I was thinking of the Haigwoods (or a similarly crazy family) several days ago.  IIRC, they were preppers, too and swapped with a liberal, educated, germ-hating, Black family from San Francisco.  The crazy family brushed their teeth with clay (the mom's teeth were particularly nasty) and that "high" meat they ate was just vomiticious.  

[HarryPotterFan]

22 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

The crazy family brushed their teeth with clay

That sounds absolutely disgusting. Where do they find these people?

[Howl]

Something popped into mind from long ago (early 1980s) and thanks to the Google! I found it on Amazon.  It's a book (I recall reading it as an article) titled:  Saints, Scholars, and Schizophrenics: Mental Illness in Rural Ireland, Twentieth Anniversary Edition, Updated and Expanded by Nancy Scheper-Hughes, a psychological anthropologist.

Although widely lauded in the US when it came out, that it was considered controversial by the study subjects, and in Ireland and the UK, is certainly an understatement. But it does go right to the heart of how family dynamics can create, or at least exacerbate, mental illness, but with a desired outcome within the family. 

This is from a review on Amazon.  If you click on the link to the book above, scroll down to the longest review.  Here's an excerpt. 

Quote

The subject of Scheper-Hughes's book alone would be enough to raise eyebrows in some circles: it is an attempt at "a broad cultural diagnosis of those pathogenic stresses that surround the coming of age in rural Ireland" and that, in her opinion, contribute to an extremely high incidence of schizophrenia in the country's western counties. This tendency is especially pronounced among the area's young and middle-aged "bachelor farmers," the men who have been subtly coerced by their families into remaining in the village of their birth and taking over their fathers' farms in an age where farming has lost its once high status as a profession and has become economically unprofitable in all but a very few cases. The breakdown of the traditional extended family structure, along with the emigration of many of the eligible young women from rural Irish villages, has resulted in these men living lives of social isolation, loneliness, and mostly unwanted celibacy. More than even this unfulfilling lifestyle, however, the brutal socialization process, in which the perceived "runt" of a family is demoralized, scapegoated, and made to feel overwhelming guilt if he refuses to remain at home to tend to his aging parents and inherit the family farm, is singled out by Scheper-Hughes as leading to the emergence of schizoaffective symptoms.

 

[Zola]

19 hours ago, MayMay1123 said:

thanks for the link...they closed the abby and libby thread and the creato case was a mistrial (i have a somewhat personal link to that one) so now there's something new to read there for me

Hell yeah. My favorite crime site since 2005.

All credit to @seattlechic. I must have somehow read her mind.