Stockdale family murders

[jojo]

I have been interested in this story because I am curious about  the "why." Then, when the obituaries were published I discovered I had lived in the same town the mother did and was living there when she graduated from our local public high school.  I worked many years in the nearby town where her parents now live and where her father and brother own a garden business. The mother who died, I read somewhere...perhaps from the tv show, that she wanted to protect her children from city life. Where she grew up was not a city.  In college, if she even lived briefly in Columbus for those few years -  that is in a large city. So, where does her fear of cities come from if she has such little experience? Of course, wondering me, searched Facebook and found some "very normal appearing" family members of hers.  Her father and brother's business has its own FB page.  So, where did her ideas originate?  I no longer live in the area, but now am very close to the trauma hospital where the son is, if he is still there. I wonder how it all went so terribly wrong and what her parents and siblings are thinking about what went wrong. This could not been out of the blue, right? We need to learn from these things and help others.

[Coy Koi]

10 hours ago, jojo said:

This could not been out of the blue, right? We need to learn from these things and help others.

Right after it happened, the police said the dad did say it was out of the blue, but I find that extremely unlikely. The mom they swapped with on the show 9-10 years ago, she said that when her son first told her this happened, he didn't know which one of the sons had done it, but right away she knew it had to be Jacob. People "know" things in hindsight all the time, but it could be true.

[BlackSheep]

After I caught up with this thread, I found a few news stories about it and learned that this happened just 2 hours from my home. Everyone I've read about at FJ is several states away, at least.

I've never visited their town but have been to other nearby towns. In addition to this story being tremendously sad, there's now the added aspect of "this happened within an easy drive of my house".

[DancingPhalanges]

http://www.cantonrep.com/news/20170814/stockdale-fiddler-likely-will-be-charged-in-death-of-mother-brother

Here's an update to the story. Forensics are finalizing, Jacob is still hospitalized, he will be charged but when he could possibly face trial is unknown. 

It is just a terrible and sad situation. 

[TisaWee Farm]

I registered on this site just go I could respond to all of the misunderstandings about this family.  But there are so many that I don't even know where to begin. 

First and foremost, however, is that you are all basing your thoughts on a "wife swap" manual that was done many years ago when the kids were small, and probably sensationalized for TV viewing.  Doing that show was the kids' idea.   They were homeschooled and learned by "experiences".  This seemed like a fun experience to them.  Kathy and Tim were against it, but the kids pushed for it. 

I knew Kathy personally and she was not the tyrant that everyone is making her out to be.  She did micromanage the kids when they were small, but once they became teenagers, those boys did anything they wanted to do.  Of course, they didn't WANT to watch TV or things of that sort, but they had internet and cell phones (and were constantly on their phones, in James' case! LOL).  James and Jacob were best friends and took road trips together.  Skiing trips, hiking/fishing trips.  They were very close.  

They were on a strict diet, but even when they were away from home and could "sneak" foods, they didn't because they knew they were trying to better their health.  They were on a "leaking gut" diet, and had been introducing new foods right along.  James, in particular, had a lot of food allergies.  

I truly don't know what caused this.  In my heart, I still feel that Jacob didn't do it.  There had to be some other explanation.  And if he did, it was a mental or medically-induced snap, but not caused by things at home.  He LOVED living at home.  He was a farmer at heart.  He and Kathy raised organic veggies and meats which they sold at various markets.  He could have gone to college, and Kathy and Tim encouraged him to do so, but he didn't want to.  He learned what he needed by reading and intended on farming and playing music for the rest of his life.  

This family was NOT isolated.  They traveled,  They were extremely popular and well-liked.  The kids were some of the most brilliant minds that I've encountered, very sociable and personable.   It is extremely sad to me to see them criticized unjustly.  

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

@TisaWee Farm you aren't the first person to come to FJ defending this family. I am sure the family put on a happy front for others. Don't most families? Isn't that basically what Facebook is? Everyone putting out the best aspects of their lives? Of course there are problems in a family where a child murders his brother and mother. There are problems in families where no one murders. You sound like you are very much in denial. He did it. There's no denying it. Now maybe there's untreated mental illness but that is never the entirety for it. It's probably a mix of untreated mental illness and family problems. Just like many family murders. 

[Flossie]

1 hour ago, TisaWee Farm said:

I registered on this site just go I could respond to all of the misunderstandings about this family.  But there are so many that I don't even know where to begin. 

Do you actually know these people?  You say you know Kathy, but how well did you know her?

You say that the kids pushed their parents into doing Wife Swap?  The parents didn't want to, but the kids made them do it?  I can tell you right now that if my kids didn't watch TV, they'd never have known about the show.  Even if they did, I'd have never agreed to go on TV to defend my lifestyle just because my kids wanted me to.  The kids didn't run my family, my husband and I did.

You say that she micomanaged the kids when they were small, but as they grew older they didn't want to watch TV or eat foods she didn't allow at home.  Again, there's that darned Wife Swap thing.  Makes me think that the strict diet probably wasn't followed away from the home.  Those kids probably ate everything they could when their parents weren't watching.

Are you a fan or are you someone close enough to them to see that things weren't right and you are now trying to create a new backstory where "Jacob didn't do it", and if that fails, you're setting up an alternative story of "if he did, it was a mental or medically-induced snap, but not caused by things at home."

There's nothing in your post to convince me that you know these people, or if you did, that you know what the kids really felt about the way they were raised.  Or maybe you're a family member and you're trying to shift the blame.

[closetcagebaby]

@TisaWee Farm She wrote that manual and they had it hosted on their website for years...so if they didn't follow it or it wasn't true, that's a little misleading.  And I'm sorry, nothing in your post makes me believe she was less controlling than we've discussed here. 

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, TisaWee Farm said:

Doing that show was the kids' idea.

Oh, please.

 How did the kids even know Wifeswap existed when they were not allowed TV.  And why would any parent with a grain of sense go along with it, and write that manual.  It is also not just the manual - it is Kathy's blog itself!  It is what SHE wrote about the home and the way she raised her sons.  She was proud of it.

1 hour ago, TisaWee Farm said:

In my heart, I still feel that Jacob didn't do it.  There had to be some other explanation.  And if he did, it was a mental or medically-induced snap, but not caused by things at home. 

This tragedy must be hugely painful for those who thought they knew the family.  

My condolences on your loss.  Although I doubt you were as close and informed as you think. 

 

[TisaWee Farm]

1 hour ago, Flossie said:

Do you actually know these people?  You say you know Kathy, but how well did you know her?

You say that the kids pushed their parents into doing Wife Swap?  The parents didn't want to, but the kids made them do it?  I can tell you right now that if my kids didn't watch TV, they'd never have known about the show.  Even if they did, I'd have never agreed to go on TV to defend my lifestyle just because my kids wanted me to.  The kids didn't run my family, my husband and I did.

You say that she micomanaged the kids when they were small, but as they grew older they didn't want to watch TV or eat foods she didn't allow at home.  Again, there's that darned Wife Swap thing.  Makes me think that the strict diet probably wasn't followed away from the home.  Those kids probably ate everything they could when their parents weren't watching.

Are you a fan or are you someone close enough to them to see that things weren't right and you are now trying to create a new backstory where "Jacob didn't do it", and if that fails, you're setting up an alternative story of "if he did, it was a mental or medically-induced snap, but not caused by things at home."

There's nothing in your post to convince me that you know these people, or if you did, that you know what the kids really felt about the way they were raised.  Or maybe you're a family member and you're trying to shift the blame.

The boys knew about Wife Swap only when the producers contacted them about doing the show.  I'm sure they had never even heard of it before and had no clue what it was about.  They were young boys and thought it would be fun.  Tim and Kathy decided it would be an educational experience for them, so went along with it.   

I'm pretty darned sure the boys followed the diet even when their parents weren't around.  I was always the one tempting them with forbidden foods when I was around them, and they always turned them down.   They understood their diet and they knew they needed to be strict with it in order for the best outcomes.   They encouraged each other to be healthy.  

I knew them personally and professionally.  I feel qualified to stand up for them since they are unable to defend themselves from these runors.  I have no reason, legally or otherwise, to post here except to try to dispel the negative rumors going around about this family.  This huge tragedy has caused enough division in the community without others encouraging it simply because they don't the truth.  If you want the truth (which no one does because it won't sell in the gossip rags), talk to their community, church, home school group, community supported agricultural group, farmer's market, bluegrass musicians and neighbors.  They will all tell you that this was an upstanding family, much admired and respected, in the community.  And it is a total shock to them because nothing the family did would have foretold of this. 

I'm confused about the statement "maybe you're a family member and you're trying to shift the blame".  Shift the blame from who?  Kathy?  Definately.  A mother raising her children to the best of her ability in a loving, caring, educated way is not to blame.   And you will never convince me that she was doing it any other way.  I was there.  I saw it.    If you mean shifting the blame from Jacob... I wish I could, but no, I can't do that.  He did it.  We don't know why.  That's the mystery.   You can't blame it on his upbringing and wrap it all up in a tidy package.  No, the real reason is still out there.

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 minutes ago, TisaWee Farm said:

You can't blame it on his upbringing and wrap it all up in a tidy package.  No, the real reason is still out there.

People who kill aren't raised in a vacuum. Of course their environment has influence on their actions. 

Andrea Yates comes to mind. She was very ill. And that illness was partially why she killed her children. But the environment was partially to blame as well. Her husband failed her when she needed the most help. 

[VVV]

1 hour ago, TisaWee Farm said:

The boys knew about Wife Swap only when the producers contacted them about doing the show.  I'm sure they had never even heard of it before and had no clue what it was about.  They were young boys and thought it would be fun.  Tim and Kathy decided it would be an educational experience for them, so went along with it.  

So the producers of Wife Swap, out of the blue, contacted the minor children of a family, who then persuaded their strict parents that going on a TV reality show would be educational? That strains credulity to the breaking point.

Assuming the producers contacted the Stockdale parents, then the parents must have presented the idea to their children (remember, these kids weren't allowed to watch TV and presumably had never heard of Wife Swap). The responsibility of participating rested 100% on the parents. They could simply have told the producers, "No, thanks, we aren't interested," and that would have been the end of it. The kids would never have even known.

And as has been pointed out before, Kathy Stockdale *chose* to leave that manual online for years.

Look, nobody knows what is really going on under someone else's roof. Only the people who live there know, and sometimes not even all of them do. I'm sure the Stockdales presented their best side in public. We all do. (I don't put pictures up on FB of my messy house, and I don't post about losing my temper with my teenaged daughter. Most people don't.) I don't know what went on under their roof, but I do know that it is very rare even in very unhappy families for one person to pick up a gun and shoot his mother and brother in cold blood. There was obviously something terribly wrong. What that something was is not known but a reasonable hypothesis can include a rigid upbringing together with undiagnosed/untreated mental illness.

I am sorry for the loss and the hurt in your community, truly. But pretending that all was rosy at home until all of a sudden it so terribly was NOT is not helpful to anyone.

[VVV]

I found another article on the Stockdale tragedy, with comments, at http://www.savingcountrymusic.com/god-family-bluegrass-murder-inside-the-life-of-the-stockdale-family-band/

At least one of the comments reads very much as if it had been written by our new friend TWF. Other comments also support that point of view, but the last comment is interesting and I will screenshot it here--hope that's OK--this is from a public website:

[hoipolloi]

3 hours ago, TisaWee Farm said:

The boys knew about Wife Swap only when the producers contacted them about doing the show.  I'm sure they had never even heard of it before and had no clue what it was about.  They were young boys and thought it would be fun.  Tim and Kathy decided it would be an educational experience for them, so went along with it.   

Calling bullshit on this one. TV producers are not going to contact minor children before contacting their parents -- not even producers for stupid shows like Wife Swap. 

1 hour ago, VVV said:

I don't know what went on under their roof, but I do know that it is very rare even in very unhappy families for one person to pick up a gun and shoot his mother and brother in cold blood. [emphasis added]

This times a million. As others have said, giving you the benefit of the doubt, you may think you knew that family but you clearly didn't. It appears that no one in your community knew them either.

The only individuals who *might* be able to enlighten the rest of us (including you) if they chose to do so are the father & surviving siblings. Until or unless they do, you're no better-informed than we are.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

6 hours ago, TisaWee Farm said:

I truly don't know what caused this.  In my heart, I still feel that Jacob didn't do it.  There had to be some other explanation.  And if he did, it was a mental or medically-induced snap, but not caused by things at home.

If you have no idea of what caused this how can you exclude the family environment as a cause? Did you conduct a mental assessment of the people involved? If not you can't say anything with surety, not even what did not cause Jacob to become a murderer, it is and remains just your opinion.

3 hours ago, TisaWee Farm said:

If you mean shifting the blame from Jacob... I wish I could, but no, I can't do that.  He did it.  We don't know why.

First you are all he didn't do it or if he did it wasn't his fault, then oh you can't shift the blame from him. Coherence doesn't seem to be your best quality. But all is fine as long as we stop thinking that there was something very wrong going on in that home. That's why you absolutely had to set us straight in a thread that except for a lonely post had been silent for a couple of months.

Moreover, anybody can come here and claim inside knowledge, that's not necessarily true though.

[SoGladIWasCofE]

Tbh the kids refusing non diet food is odder than sneaking it. That would be normal child behaviour. If their mother is putting them on bizzare unneeded diets and they're so controlled they're not willing to break it, that's a sign of something wrong. Total obedience isn't normal.

You say you tried to tempt them with food? Was this on behalf of the parents to test them, or because you thought the diets were nuts? Neither of these reflect well on the parents.

[Lurky]

2 hours ago, SoGladIWasCofE said:

You say you tried to tempt them with food? Was this on behalf of the parents to test them, or because you thought the diets were nuts? Neither of these reflect well on the parents.

This is what I want to know, too.  If a friend of my mother was trying to get me to break my parents' rules, I'd be wondering if it was some kind of trick.

It's a pretty cruel thing to do, too, to try to get the kids to break rules for a whim.  If it's an adult who's in the kids' life a LOT, and is willing to offer them a place to live etc, that can be different - eg the Pennington grandparents who gave Alecia Faith a place to live when she wanted to get an education, for example.  Or the aunt of that poor girl who was being sent to a de-gaying camp, who basically rescued her.  Giving kids a chance to get educated, or get a job, or become independent, that's one thing.  But offering them forbidden food, because it would give you a kick to see them eat chocolate, or whatever, is ridiculous. 

And it can't be a positive, good diet, if people around the kids were trying to get them to eat the banned stuff too, right? 

[SoGladIWasCofE]

Yeah, I really can't think of a good reason to try to tempt kids with forbidden food if the diet isn't obviously nonsense. 

With kids who have restricted diets for good reasons (like allergies or coeliac etc.) then any adult who knowingly offers them that food shouldn't be allowed near them. Even aside from medical reasons, teasing kids with foods they can't eat is just mean.

Putting healthy kids on super strict pseudoscientific diets for their "health" indicates a high level of control and possibly orthorexia.

Putting a kid on a super strict diet, then getting a family friend to offer them forbidden treats to test their loyalty demonstrates a really fucked up mindset. That may not be what happened, but nothing about that situation looks good.

Also, if the kids thought you might report back to the parents, then you got zero honest responses about their home situation.

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I wouldn't be surprised if "cheating" on their strict diet gave them an upset stomach. That's the only thing I can think of as to why they were so willing to stick to the diet. I was vegan for years and eating dairy or eggs for the first time gave me an upset stomach and diarrhea. 

And yes, I find it odd that someone would tempt them with food. I would never do that to someone on a certain diet. 

[quiversR4hunting]

9 hours ago, VVV said:

Look, nobody knows what is really going on under someone else's roof. Only the people who live there know, and sometimes not even all of them do.

I want to add to this, my neighbors got divorced a couple years ago. Their kids and my kids play together all. the. time. (still do) I had NO clue they were having marital problems and I would go for walks with the mom and sometimes the dad while the kids biked or ran ahead of us. (They had non-traditional work hours, he is on 24 shifts and she would work on his days off.) We would talk a lot about the kids, school, life, hobbies, etc. Sometimes the mom and I would talk about our frustrations over our husbands but nothing that made me think they were going to divorce. Unless you live with the people, you truly don't know what goes on under the roof. We can all make guesses but we don't know. That is evident in the case in the Stockdales.

 

[Maxwell]

My kids were never on a strict diet -- or any diet really -- but we did try hard to limit the candy & sweets (there's a LOT of it out there) and people tempted them ALL. THE. TIME.  Often times it was just in passing, "Hey, you wanna piece of candy?" (sometimes, depending on the situation, we'd give in or let them decide -- weren't insane about it), other times it was relentless, "You want some fudge?  <No thanks...>  It's home made!! <No... thank you>  I put nuts in it and doubled the sugar!!!! <No! Really!!>  And I soaked it in corn syrup..."  So, my point is that when  TisaWee says she tempted the kids to go off diet it could have easily have been the former rather than the latter and from our experience, both people making the offer (and being declined) would walk away saying were strict about candy.  The relentless folks would make a mental note to double their efforts next time.

[SoGladIWasCofE]

Do people do that after they know the kids aren't allowed to eat it? Because that's just cruel.

[Maxwell]

8 minutes ago, SoGladIWasCofE said:

Do people do that after they know the kids aren't allowed to eat it? Because that's just cruel.

Most don't but some treat you as if you're depriving/abusing your children, "You mean they CAN'T have a piece of CANDY??".   if it were one piece I wouldn't care but when it's the cashiers, and the big bowl at the auto parts store, and the suckers at the pizza shop, and the Grandparents, and the Aunts.... no, they can't.

[socalrules]

My friend's son is allergic to a myriad of things, including milk and eggs. She is vigilant about making sure his school and everyone around him knows he should only eat what he brings with him. She even makes him a cupcake if they are having a party in class so he isn't left behind. Eating the wrong thing could kill him. If a child is on a particular diet, and that kid doesn't want to eat what is offered, leave them alone. Any reason they have for not eating something offered is valid. I don't get why it is so important a child eats what a random person is trying to stuff down them.  I also don't understand trying to force a kid to break rules set by their parents when those rules aren't abusive. 

[Pianokeeper]

I find it so hard to read "upstanding" as anything but empty irony.  "Upstanding" tells me only that you couldn't think of a more specific and accurate word to convey the positive feelings you have for people and, rather than examining more closely why you feel the way you do, you have chosen a filler word.