Joy and Austin: dating with a purpose .... or something (part 4)

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think that their show adds a whole new problem for JB when it comes to courtships. He so desperately wants his kids to get into courtships so they  have some material for the show and to keep the Duggars in the spotlight. But he also knows that once these kids are publicly courting and it's a major storyline to the show, he loses some of his power. If their lives weren't public, JB could pretty easily cut off a courtship if the guy isn't behaving the way JB wants (example not asking for permission to propose). I thinking Jessa probably realized this and that's why she made the joke about eloping. Boob pretty much has to allow the engagement and marriage happen thanks to the show. 

Joy is a rule follower and enforcer. So she will not test Boob at all. And Boob knows it.

 Jinger was a rule follower too, and that didn't stop her from front hugging the hell out of Jeremy.  She is getting to do a lot of stuff that the older girls weren't allowed to do, like play with her brothers, she was left alone with both Jeremy & Ben I'm sure neither of those were pre-approved by boob, and just happenstance, as in Jess wanted to be bossy and Ben had homework so Joy had to stay behind to do the wimins work while Binny did his manly studying.  She got to intern at the AR statehouse, you can't tell me boob is keen on a daughter going into politics. I wonder how some of those chaperones and accountability partners work when there are no cameras there to film.  You can't tell me there is NO you look this way and I'll look that way arraignments going on between siblings. 

[CorruptionInc.]

On 07/02/2017 at 6:37 AM, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

She got to intern at the AR statehouse, you can't tell me boob is keen on a daughter going into politics. 

I believe a J Brother also got one? Or is he just the accountability partner?

With Smug no longer working for the FRC (are they political?) I guess he had to go with the next best thing? Jana is busy, the others have babies, JD is working etc.

[marmalade]

30 minutes ago, CorruptionInc. said:

I believe a J Brother also got one? Or is he just the accountability partner?

With Smug no longer working for the FRC (are they political?) I guess he had to go with the next best thing? Jana is busy, the others have babies, JD is working etc.

I'm pretty sure it was a one-day deal. The caption of the picture even said it was nice to have them "TODAY." And yes, Jer went as an accountability partner/fellow intern for a day. 

[Ampak]

Ok i definitely do not have vaginismus and i consider pap smears prettty uncomfortable. My doctor even warned it would be so. Why is this any surprise? Its mit like you go into a pap smear sexually aroused & wet unless you're... Unusual. 
Like are we talking about the same thing here? Was i the only one that literally shuddered when the inside of my cervix was swabbed??? But seriously who finds having a speculum pressing down hard on their urethra comfortable? & Not even a little bit painful.

PAP smears are uncomfortable to me because of the speculum but, not really painful. Now getting an IUD inserted; that hurt something awful! I wanted to vomit. I had the worst cramping of my life afterwards as well.

[feministxtian]

My husband "asked" my mom and my kids for "permission" to marry me. It had nothing to do with "permission" and everything to do with him wanting them to know that he loved me and them especially after the abusive prick I WAS married to. The only other thing ever said was when we were dating/living together, my father told hubby (before we got married) that he'd damn well better treat me like the princess I was and am. 

[Exposed Collarbone]

I got married at 21. We had been dating since I was 18, and we did the traditional one year engagement before the wedding. We didn't live together before getting married because that was important to me, for religious reasons, at the time. At 21 I thought I was ready to be a wife. I had checked off all the things on my list that I thought were required to be ready to get married. I was soo wrong. All I did was set myself (and the marriage) up for failure. I was way too young to understand what I was getting myself into. I look at the experiences I had accumulated by 21 and I compare them to Joy's lack of experiences and I feel sad for her. She has signed herself up for a lot of potential struggle. 

[season of life]

My parents married within months of meeting one another. That was just expected of young people back then. Is any young person truly ready to go from their parents' home to sharing a life with a spouse? Jill, Jessa, Jinger, and Anna were young wives, but knowing Joy may get hitched at 20 or 21 saddens me. 

[eveandadam]

6 hours ago, season of life said:

My parents married within months of meeting one another. That was just expected of young people back then. Is any young person truly ready to go from their parents' home to sharing a life with a spouse? Jill, Jessa, Jinger, and Anna were young wives, but knowing Joy may get hitched at 20 or 21 saddens me. 

You mean Joy could get married at 19. Jessa got married at 21, Josh at 20.

[SamiKatz]

I've said this in the forum before, but my sister got married at 19 - to her high school sweetie - and has been married for 40 years, happily so.  

Getting married young is not necessarily a bad life choice.

[Carm_88]

7 minutes ago, SamiKatz said:

I've said this in the forum before, but my sister got married at 19 - to her high school sweetie - and has been married for 40 years, happily so.  

Getting married young is not necessarily a bad life choice.

It's not a bad life choice when you have a choice.  

[obiwanfreak]

9 hours ago, Ampak said:

 

PAP smears are uncomfortable to me because of the speculum but, not really painful. Now getting an IUD inserted; that hurt something awful! I wanted to vomit. I had the worst cramping of my life afterwards as well.

 

I'm getting my current IUD removed today and a new one inserted.  Not really looking forward to it...

[louisa05]

20 minutes ago, SamiKatz said:

I've said this in the forum before, but my sister got married at 19 - to her high school sweetie - and has been married for 40 years, happily so.  

Getting married young is not necessarily a bad life choice.

I'm going to guess that her circumstances were a bit different. 

My mother got married a couple of months short of her 20th b-day. My parents were married 51.5 years (until my dad's death). And happily so as well. 

BUT...my mother at nearly 20 had graduated from public high school, moved away from home, completed a one year certification at a business/vocational school and was working full time as a legal secretary supporting herself. Joy at 19 has...lived at home and taken care of her siblings. While my dad, who was 22, had lived away from home and worked and was about to complete four years in the military. Austin has...lived at home and worked at the family camp. My parents were young, but they had savings, work experiences, experiences living on their own, goals and a a life plan. These fundies typically have barely any of that. 

 

[JesSky03]

We all have our different opinions and are welcome to share them, but if you say you are against young marriage (and not just talking in the context of the Duggars) then be prepared for the replies from jingerites who married young and are happy in their marriages, or who know someone who married young and were/are happy. It always seems to be this round and round conversation of those who married young and it was a mistake, and others who married young and it worked out. Can't we all just agree that marriage is not a one size fits all and what works best for some isn't best for others and just do whatever is right for you? 

[socalrules]

It's not about young marriage versus older marriage. It's 19 year-old Joy, who basically has less life experience than that of a 12 year-old, getting married. She is nowhere near on par with the vast majority of 19 year-olds, who may truly be ready for marriage. Would anyone here think it's a good idea for a 12 year-old to get married? Of course not. Joy is legally an adult but never made an adult decision.

[Flossie]

47 minutes ago, JesSky03 said:

We all have our different opinions and are welcome to share them, but if you say you are against young marriage (and not just talking in the context of the Duggars) then be prepared for the replies from jingerites who married young and are happy in their marriages, or who know someone who married young and were/are happy. It always seems to be this round and round conversation of those who married young and it was a mistake, and others who married young and it worked out. Can't we all just agree that marriage is not a one size fits all and what works best for some isn't best for others and just do whatever is right for you? 

One of my in-laws got married at 16 to a young man only 2 or 3 years older than she.  The new bride didn't complete high school, but the groom did.  It was a case of a babys on the way and back then there were few options.  You got married, or gave the baby up for adoption.  The young couple moved into a house close to the brides house.  My MIL used to tell stories of the young couple's fights.  There was a slight rise in the land between the houses, but they could hear the new couple fight.  Several times the new bride would pack some belongings and go home to Mama.  They would stew for a couple of days and then make up.  I guess they learned how to work things out, because they were married for close to fifty years, and during the time I knew them they seemed happy and content.  

For every story you hear of young people marrying and making it, you hear a hundred more stories of people that don't have a good outcome.  Most of the time there are children involved who have to live through the results of their parents having an early marriage.

FWIW, The kids of the couple mentioned above did very well for themselves, because both parents admitted that things would have been easier if they had gotten married later, and if they had more education.  They also worked themselves to the bone to put their kids through college, and begged them to delay marriage until they had completed their education.

[Carm_88]

See I think it's about age, it's about maturity in some ways and time. For most people who marry young, they were in a relationship with this person for years, probably through high school, and for those marriages that do work; they likely know the other person very well. Joy and Austin as well as the rest of these fundie couples don't know the other person. You can't very well get to really know someone when someone else is listening in. The base stuff? Yeah. Hopes, dreams, desires, goals? Likely not. 

[JesSky03]

39 minutes ago, socalrules said:

It's not about young marriage versus older marriage. It's 19 year-old Joy, who basically has less life experience than that of a 12 year-old, getting married. She is nowhere near on par with the vast majority of 19 year-olds, who may truly be ready for marriage. Would anyone here think it's a good idea for a 12 year-old to get married? Of course not. Joy is legally an adult but never made an adult decision.

I get that, but often the comments here extend outside of the Duggar bubble. It starts to feel judge-y after a while since I have seen this thread drift several times since joining 2 years ago.  I think we all agree on Joy and that it is not so much her age, but her maturity and life experience(lack of) that make us all apprehensive about her inevitable marriage. 

[Toothfairy]

1 hour ago, JesSky03 said:

We all have our different opinions and are welcome to share them, but if you say you are against young marriage (and not just talking in the context of the Duggars) then be prepared for the replies from jingerites who married young and are happy in their marriages, or who know someone who married young and were/are happy. It always seems to be this round and round conversation of those who married young and it was a mistake, and others who married young and it worked out. Can't we all just agree that marriage is not a one size fits all and what works best for some isn't best for others and just do whatever is right for you? 

I don't support my kids marrying young. Marriage is a big deal. At 18,19,20 years old you should be focusing on yourself. What goals do you have? What job or career do you want?

[titerlitury]

I wonder how Jim Bob will treat Austin. I mean, he comes from friends family, they all knew each other for years. Austin doesn't need Jim as a praying partner, he won't be living in Duggar's shed and cleaning their toilets, his potential earnings and house situation also isn't a secret. 

I bet Boob's famous questionnaire will ot be forgotten, but still. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 hour ago, socalrules said:

It's not about young marriage versus older marriage. It's 19 year-old Joy, who basically has less life experience than that of a 12 year-old, getting married. She is nowhere near on par with the vast majority of 19 year-olds, who may truly be ready for marriage. Would anyone here think it's a good idea for a 12 year-old to get married? Of course not. Joy is legally an adult but never made an adult decision.

To be fair, neither had, Jill, Jessa, Jinger or josh prior to getting married.  So 19 or 22 there really isn't any difference, you are treated as the same nasty little heathen child until you either put a ring on it or have a ring put on it. 

[JesSky03]

34 minutes ago, Toothfairy said:

I don't support my kids marrying young. Marriage is a big deal. At 18,19,20 years old you should be focusing on yourself. What goals do you have? What job or career do you want?

Well it's a good thing you weren't my parent. 

[Toothfairy]

1 hour ago, JesSky03 said:

Well it's a good thing you weren't my parent. 

Agree to disagree. 

[DaniLouisiana]

I married my husband after knowing him for 3 months. I had just turned 20 two weeks before we got married. We have been married for 34 yrs. My daughter got married at 22. She had life experience- working, living on her own, college, etc. The marriage lasted 2 yrs. She is just getting out of a 3 yr relationship that turned abusive. She is 28. Because she admits that she is not mature enough to make major decisions, all major decisions (job, apartment, & most importantly realationships) will be run past the committee- Aunts and parents. She has given her whole hearted consent to this. Again, she is 28 and will be 29 in July. If she is not mature enough to make this type of decision, I'm pretty sure that NONE of the Duggar girls are not mature enough either.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

58 minutes ago, Toothfairy said:

Agree to disagree. 

On a matter of opinion, as that is what this is. I can think of 9 couples I know that married out of high school and 3 are divorced, and 1 couple that dated in high school broke up, both married different people had kids divorced and "found" each other again and then remarried each other. I think statistically speaking  odds are not in ones favor when marrying young. I see your point, you are discouraging your kids from marrying at what you deem to be a "too young age" and I'm guessing @JesSky03 married young and does not regret it. While I would try to dissuade my current 19 yr old from getting married, other kids his age may be  ready, he is NOT.  That is the problem with setting arbitrary ages on what is young and old.  My mom is 71 she's fairly healthy and gets around with almost no issues, my MIL is 75 and she is OLD, she has limited mobility in the winter time, because she is a fall risk under best of circumstances. They are only 4 years apart in age but they seem like decades. MIL has had a hard life, 6 kids, decades of physical labor poor, lack of medical care for years because she couldn't afford insurance it has all taken a toll on her. My mom has had a very easy life, desk job, where she made the same money or more as my father did, only (we lived in what was considered an upper middle class family) 3 kids and access to the best of America's health care and the best of everything really. There was no worrying about how the kids were going to eat tonight the house was always fully stocked. 

9 minutes ago, DaniLouisiana said:

I married my husband after knowing him for 3 months. I had just turned 20 two weeks before we got married. We have been married for 34 yrs. My daughter got married at 22. She had life experience- working, living on her own, college, etc. The marriage lasted 2 yrs. She is just getting out of a 3 yr relationship that turned abusive. She is 28. Because she admits that she is not mature enough to make major decisions, all major decisions (job, apartment, & most importantly realationships) will be run past the committee- Aunts and parents. She has given her whole hearted consent to this. Again, she is 28 and will be 29 in July. If she is not mature enough to make this type of decision, I'm pretty sure that NONE of the Duggar girls are not mature enough either.

This sounds to me more like your daughter is still carrying the scars of her abuse.  She made 2 bad relationship choices, while I'm not sure about professional or financial choices, I think she should maybe speak with a professional and work on rebuilding her self esteem, sounds to me as if there was emotional abuse as well as physical.  At 28/29 years old she is taking the "easy way" out by having others make her decisions for her, she CAN do this, she just needs the confidence and courage to make them. You all should encourage her to do so. Coming to you for advice is one thing coming to you and saying "what do I do now" is NOT healthy.  The thing is at 28/29 she IS mature enough, she is just scared, being abuse for any length of time can do that to a person.  I would strongly recommend she look for some help to build herself back up.  

Please now i'm not trying to be rude, I have many years of study in psychology and working with mental health, if she doesn't know where to go an employee EEP or her doctor can direct her to someone she can talk to. 

[DaniLouisiana]

@allthegoodnamesrgone, yes, she needs counseling. That's the next step as soon as we get her out of the current mess. She is job and apartment hunting right now. The ex is trying to push her into unsuitable jobs and drinks heavily on weekends-heavily to the point of blackouts. The point of removing her to my home on weekends is for her safety.  She is looking for a place/job in our neighborhood where she has a support system. She says when she gets lonely,  she gets stupid and here comes the bad relationship. 

We did the same thing with decision making with KIddo after a serious suicide attempt- with his therapist's approval. Now Kiddo has his life together; he has a job, is living on his own abd going to school. His therapist said to think of it as a "life reset". That is what we are trying to for DD-a reset. There is also a 4 yr old involved, so staying out of a relationship is also to protect him from another father figure coming into his life and then disappearing.