Joy and Austin: dating with a purpose .... or something (part 4)

[marmalade]

On 1/30/2017 at 0:31 PM, Bad Wolf said:

Getting back to Joy. She's a political intern and taking bible classes. Shouldn't she be preparing to be a good helpmeet instead?

I think the intern thing was a one-time deal. That's very, very common. 

Someone from another group I'm in called Fort Rock and asked about a wedding for her daughter that last weekend of April that Fort Rock's website says they're having a private conference. They said they were having another wedding that weekend. Busted!

I expect the engagement announcement to happen on the 13th. Sweeps, show day, plus Valentine's Day the next day. How CAN'T it be announced then?

[killingxspree]

On 27/01/2017 at 5:03 AM, ClaraOswin said:

Unless, like some here have mentioned, you have a medical condition like vaginismus or something.

 

Again...unless you have a medical condition that would cause a pap to be uncomfortable.

Ok i definitely do not have vaginismus and i consider pap smears prettty uncomfortable. My doctor even warned it would be so. Why is this any surprise? Its mit like you go into a pap smear sexually aroused & wet unless you're... Unusual. 

Like are we talking about the same thing here? Was i the only one that literally shuddered when the inside of my cervix was swabbed??? But seriously who finds having a speculum pressing down hard on their urethra comfortable? & Not even a little bit painful.

[Flossie]

3 hours ago, killingxspree said:

Ok i definitely do not have vaginismus and i consider pap smears prettty uncomfortable. My doctor even warned it would be so. Why is this any surprise? Its mit like you go into a pap smear sexually aroused & wet unless you're... Unusual. 

Like are we talking about the same thing here? Was i the only one that literally shuddered when the inside of my cervix was swabbed??? But seriously who finds having a speculum pressing down hard on their urethra comfortable? & Not even a little bit painful.

You are NOT unusual.  I do OK with them but I still hold off as long as I can when one is due.  I find pap smears intrusive and embarrassing.  I may not shudder when my cervix is swabbed, it's not painful for me, but I definitely know it's happening and I concentrate on not tensing up and remind myself it only lasts a few seconds.  I find the bimanual exam to be worse, and the rectal exam to be almost unbearable.  I get through it by psyching myself up and making sure that every member of the medical staff knows what bothers me the most.  I tell them "The stirrups make me feel trapped, so limit the time I'm in them.  I prefer a warm speculum and gel.  Tell me what you're about to do, so I'm prepared.  You do your part and I'll do my very best to be a model patient.  I know you have other patients to see."

[Pasta]

I don't mind paps but I had surgery down there before I had my first pap so maybe that helped?? Plus the appt usually calms my fears so it's worth it to me. Idk I'm definitely abnormal, haha 

[Gillyweed]

I haven't gotten a pap yet, but I had to get an external ultrasound a few weeks ago. I was really nervous because I'm so ticklish (I had to get a cyst removed on my hip, and even with a shot to numb the area I was still squirming from being ticklish. I've even tickled myself before, which is supposed to be impossible). Since I'm so ticklish, it was so hard for me to relax. I also found it weird how the gel they use was warm. I expected it to be cold for some reason. 

[loveformusic]

Since I've never posted in any of Joy & Austin's threads, before...just gonna continue with the "but she's so young!" sentiments, because at 19, she really is. Looking back at a few experiences I've had in the past, I could NEVER imagine myself being engaged/married at 19. At one point I thought "What's so wrong with that?" but thankfully I've wised up quite a bit over the past few years. While marriage & starting a family is a beautiful thing - your youth is just as beautiful, and it's a shame Joy probably doesn't have much time left to enjoy it, until it's baby-making time.

Btw - I was still lurking at the time of the Virgin thread-drift a couple pages back - but let me just say how relieved I feel to not be the only 20 something year-old woman who's also a virgin. I literally feel like the only ones at times, lol. That discussion really helped alot!

[picklepizzas]

I just really want to take a second to appreciate this quote in its puke-tastic entirety: 

“I’m not sure when the next step will come,” she admits. “You would have to ask Austin what he’s thinking and my dad, but I’m excited to see what God has in store for us in the next year.”

 

You'd have to ask austin or her dad?! Why haven't YOU asked them that, Joy, it's your freaking marriage! also PS the two people who should be having that conversation are Austin + Joy not Austin + Boob. 

I actually can't believe People published that quote. Usually they seem eager to depict the duggars as mainstream as possible, but here you have a casual quote from a 19 year old girl who is not even pretending to be an active participant in the decision about whether/when she will get married. Gross. Just gross. 

 

(from: http://people.com/tv/joy-anna-duggar-austin-forsyth-courtship/)

[Cheetah]

54 minutes ago, picklepizzas said:

I just really want to take a second to appreciate this quote in its puke-tastic entirety: 

“I’m not sure when the next step will come,” she admits. “You would have to ask Austin what he’s thinking and my dad, but I’m excited to see what God has in store for us in the next year.”

 

You'd have to ask austin or her dad?! Why haven't YOU asked them that, Joy, it's your freaking marriage! also PS the two people who should be having that conversation are Austin + Joy not Austin + Boob. 

I actually can't believe People published that quote. Usually they seem eager to depict the duggars as mainstream as possible, but here you have a casual quote from a 19 year old girl who is not even pretending to be an active participant in the decision about whether/when she will get married. Gross. Just gross. 

 

(from: http://people.com/tv/joy-anna-duggar-austin-forsyth-courtship/)

If you are young enough to need your parents' approval/opinion on your marriage, you are too young to get married.  IMO.  

[SamiKatz]

3 hours ago, picklepizzas said:

I just really want to take a second to appreciate this quote in its puke-tastic entirety: 

“I’m not sure when the next step will come,” she admits. “You would have to ask Austin what he’s thinking and my dad, but I’m excited to see what God has in store for us in the next year.”

 

You'd have to ask austin or her dad?! Why haven't YOU asked them that, Joy, it's your freaking marriage! also PS the two people who should be having that conversation are Austin + Joy not Austin + Boob. 

I actually can't believe People published that quote. Usually they seem eager to depict the duggars as mainstream as possible, but here you have a casual quote from a 19 year old girl who is not even pretending to be an active participant in the decision about whether/when she will get married. Gross. Just gross. 

 

(from: http://people.com/tv/joy-anna-duggar-austin-forsyth-courtship/)

 

That is what was a huge eye opener for me in the Return of The Daughters video posted here, that the man speaks to the girls' father before they approach her.  I also watched another documentary (which I unfortunately don't remember the name of). which spoke to another woman in fundydom and she said that while she "theoretically" could have said no to the man her father chose for her, it would have caused huge rifts in the family and community.

These woman really are between a rock and a hard place.

[Jilli]

That's a huge thing that bugs me. When I almost entered a relationship with a fundie-lite(this was a long time ago), he said he'd have to talk to my dad. Huge culture shock to me. My moms a liberal feminist and my dad didn't ask her dad for permission until they were already engaged. 

 

Thank god someone else stopped us.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

4 hours ago, Cheetah said:

If you are young enough to need your parents' approval/opinion on your marriage, you are too young to get married.  IMO.  

So much this! I tell my 19 yr this, if you have to ask if it is ok for you to do it you are too young.  My son is exactly the same age as Joy and I would be beside myself if he was planning to marry. He & he & his friends are planing to road trip from Iowa to Boston for a geek fest over spring break. I'm TERRIFIED , my baby isn't old enough for this, but he is and he will have so much fun So when my kid and while he's getting ready to drive 1/2 way across the country she will be planning her enslavement wedding. 

@Jilli my husband didn't even ask my dad, we just told him I was getting married, My dad did kind of make remark but I told him to stuff it. 

[Toothfairy]

I don't agree with young marriages. I would be upset my 19yo wantes to get marred BUT. The biggest issue?  Joy doesn't have a choice. It's be a stay at home daughter vs being married and having sex plus babies. 

On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Phoenix said:

That is a really good question. Does the hive vagina know of any widowed and remarried fundies? Or are widows and widowers supposed to "keep sacred" the memories of their departed spouses?  Now that they know about the sex, would they be trusted to follow the rules without chaperones or is it a moot point once your virginity card expires? 

I wouldn't be surprised if some widowed fundies were secretly deeply relieved to be free of their spouses and not remotely interested in being married again under such a restrictive belief system. Granted that happens outside of the fundy world as well, but I suspect it might be more common in the fundy universe. 

This. What happens if your spouse dies? You're no lonfee a virgin. Your heart was taken already

[JermajestyDuggar]

51 minutes ago, Toothfairy said:

I don't agree with young marriages. I would be upset my 19yo wantes to get marred BUT. The biggest issue?  Joy doesn't have a choice. It's be a stay at home daughter vs being married and having sex plus babies. 

This. What happens if your spouse dies? You're no lonfee a virgin. Your heart was taken already

I wouldn't mind the young marriages so much if these people didn't act like birth control was formed by the devil himself. The thought of these SAHDs getting married young and then not having kids for a few years actually seems like a much better alternative. They get to spend all their free time with their mate, they get to have all the sex without feeling guilty, they could take trips together or go out with friends. But since they don't do birth control, she could get pregnant right away and start feeling crappy from the pregnancy. So that limits their activities right away. And then having  newborn every 18-24 months also limits their mobility, alone time, and finances. So Joy will be stuck at fort Rock tending babies and working for his family for years to come. 

[Lurky]

I wouldn't mind if Joy said "you'll have to watch our series to find out", even...  And now I'm worried she'll be in a Maranantha whatsit/Katie Smith scenario, where she won't actually know when she's going to be married, until the fathers say it's ok and Austin comes to literally pick her up...

[Iamtheway]

I'm trying to imagine what it would have looked like if Mr. Way had asked my dad if he could marry me ... especially after us living together for six years already. My dad would be like: ”Why are you asking me? Go ask her!”

I so wish these girls a different life where they are in charge of themselves and their choices are their own. Maybe Jordyn or Jennifer will be able to get away. They seem pretty over looked. 

[Bad Wolf]

Since courting is supposed to lead to marriage, why doesn't Joy know what's coming? I can understand if she said that they're still getting to know each other, or they haven't set a date yet, but ask my dad? That's pathetic.

[JermajestyDuggar]

17 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Since courting is supposed to lead to marriage, why doesn't Joy know what's coming? I can understand if she said that they're still getting to know each other, or they haven't set a date yet, but ask my dad? That's pathetic.

I think he not only has to ask Boob to court her but he also has to ask Boob to propose as well. Basically he can't fart without getting Boob's approval first. 

[Gillyweed]

50 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think he not only has to ask Boob to court her but he also has to ask Boob to propose as well. Basically he can't fart without getting Boob's approval first. 

What do you think would happen if one of them proposed without asking JB? I don't remember tlc showing Jeremy ask JB to PROPOSE

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, Gillyweed said:

What do you think would happen if one of them proposed without asking JB? I don't remember tlc showing Jeremy ask JB to PROPOSE

I would love it if Jeremy never asked. Because that's a big old passive aggressive fuck you to old Boob. JB would probably be pissed but not show it. Because there really isn't much he could do about it by that point. 

[socalrules]

1 hour ago, Gillyweed said:

What do you think would happen if one of them proposed without asking JB? I don't remember tlc showing Jeremy ask JB to PROPOSE

It would never happen because the chaperone would run right back and tell daddy. That would be end of the relationship. These girls aren't going to defy daddy while living under his roof. If Daddy suddenly says the guy is bad they will believe him because God tells Daddy who is perfect for them. 

i believe the proposal was shown and it was on a roof in New York. I didn't see it but some thought it was a reenactment. 

[MargaretElliott]

I mean, I expect my potential fiancee to ask my parents for permission to marry me- not because I'm anyone's property, but because I love old-fashioned traditions like that (I'm also not seeing the groom for 24 hours beforehand and putting a sixpence in my shoe). But I  find the tradition super gross when it comes to JimBob, because I know he's looking at it like a transfer of property. Why are these young women's sex lives so dependent on their fathers? (Answer: because of patriarchal bullshit, that's why.) Joy's nineteen, none of this should be anyone's business but hers, unless she chooses otherwise. That "ask my dad" comment really rubbed me the wrong way. This isn't wholesome family values. This isn't a return to the good ol' days. This is creepy, intrusive, and controlling. No thanks.

[DaniLouisiana]

My DD is rather enjoying the fact that we don't want her to date right now-she is coming off two abusive long term relationships.  She told her ex-husband yesterday morning-"My Mom says I can't date for at least 6 months" when he asked if they might 'think' about getting back together. She is 28 and it's not about her being anyone's property-its about her getting her life together before getting into another realtionship.

[Marly]

15 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Since courting is supposed to lead to marriage, why doesn't Joy know what's coming? I can understand if she said that they're still getting to know each other, or they haven't set a date yet, but ask my dad? That's pathetic.

That is how much these women are subjected to patriarchal rule.
She knows that courting is supposed to lead to marriage, but she is not a man, so she doesn't have the final say in it. And whereas I would elope right away if my dad or my brothers would ever have so much as the nerve to tell me or my boyfriend that my bf needs to ask their permission first, these girls are raised with the idea that women are natural sinners (men too, but Adam&Eve showed that women are worse than men) and incapable of making decisions like this without male guidance and supervision. If they wouldn't believe that, they wouldn't stick to the outdated and ridiculous regime of courting in the first place. It's not the man who has to ask for his parents' permission to court a woman. He can tell his parents he is interested in a certain woman and thinks about possibly courting her, and his parents can then give him advise. 
Can you imagine one of the Duggar daughters just telling JB flat out they intend to court a certain man? No, no, no, no, no!!!
They can say they are interested in someone ( I think that’s how it went with Jill and Derick), but they are not allowed to initiate anything by themselves. That has to go through their dad and the potential male mate. I remember one episode where Jessa and Ben were still courting, and then Jessa was asked about her courtship and said a bit too enthousiastically: “Imma marry that man!”. JB could barely contain himself. 

In the lives of these girls, the option of making up their own mind regarding when they’ll marry and, to a certain extent, who they’ll marry does not exist. Yes, they can break-off a courtship (and maybe even an engagement), but they can never enter a courtship or get engaged to a man their father hasn’t approved of in the first place. Hence, their options are limited. And trying to test the boundaries might make the regime they’re being subjected too even stricter and more ridiculous, so they probably try to work within the established boundaries as best as they can.
I wonder what would happen if JB would turn down a courtship proposal of a guy for one of his daughters, when that daughter really really wants to court that guy. Would they still accept that they are incapable of deciding that for themselves, or would they – especially the younger girls who can witness what married life is like for their sisters – still true to pursue a courtship with that guy?

[choralcrusader8613]

9 minutes ago, Marly said:

I remember one episode where Jessa and Ben were still courting, and then Jessa was asked about her courtship and said a bit too enthousiastically: “Imma marry that man!”. JB could barely contain himself. 

I remember when Jessa made that "You don't want us to elope!" remark. Not sure whether it was awkward because it was too scripted, or it was too real, but it showed that same tension you touched on in your post.

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, choralcrusader8613 said:

I remember when Jessa made that "You don't want us to elope!" remark. Not sure whether it was awkward because it was too scripted, or it was too real, but it showed that same tension you touched on in your post.

I think that their show adds a whole new problem for JB when it comes to courtships. He so desperately wants his kids to get into courtships so they  have some material for the show and to keep the Duggars in the spotlight. But he also knows that once these kids are publicly courting and it's a major storyline to the show, he loses some of his power. If their lives weren't public, JB could pretty easily cut off a courtship if the guy isn't behaving the way JB wants (example not asking for permission to propose). I thinking Jessa probably realized this and that's why she made the joke about eloping. Boob pretty much has to allow the engagement and marriage happen thanks to the show. 

Joy is a rule follower and enforcer. So she will not test Boob at all. And Boob knows it.