The Invisible Jinger (and Her Preacher Man Jeremy)

[BackseatMom]

Whew, read the comments on that Catholic match article: humper central! They are such good parents? Their kids are so mature? WTF have they been watching? Certainly not 19KAC.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

29 minutes ago, ClaraOswin said:

I get that they think using birth control or NFP is going against God's plan or however they want to word it. But I am still not seeing where they have said it is akin to abortion or "murder" or whatever.

I think they only consider the pill akin to murder since it can stop a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. NFP and condoms go against God's Gothard's wishes of having children until someone dies or goes through menopause. Gotherd's views are to take over the world by breeding as many kids as possible. You keep those kids stupid, sheltered and scared of the real world, so they to will have dozens of kids and those kids and those kids. He preaches nothing about loving supporting or being able to feed, clothes, and house those kids, just have them, oh and the parents must also stay stupid, sheltered and scared of the real world no working for other people no friends out side of your cult. 

I'm kind of curious what Gothard's views on infertile women and on women like Michelle who are all dusty and dried up in the womb area? 

[Adrienne83]

1 hour ago, anotherone said:

Yeah, probably a real good reason you didn't date more.  You didn't like any of the other guys you met.  Probably as simple as that. 

I think those of you who got married to one of the first people you dated, if you really want to compare to the Duggars you still have to include all the other guys you didn't date when you think of it, all the weird nerdy guys you met in middle school, the "cool" guys in high school that may have snubbed you, the guys at the pool, older guys you had a crush on, guys in your study group, etc.  It's like you may have considered 107 people - 100 you ruled out immediately, 5 you would have liked but ended with 0 dates, 1 guy with 3 dates, and 1 ending with marriage.  Without the 106 previous loser guys you wouldn't have made such an informed choice about your husband.  The Duggar girls don't really get a chance to evaluate the losers until it's too late.

 

I literally only went on two dates with the guy before I met my husband. I didn't date in my high school and college years because I had a medical issue. I ended up having 11 surgeries, and was more worried about living than dating. So for me, it was as simple as that.

[Bugaboo]

I saw this topic was hot and got nervous! I freaked out thinking "oh no, please don't let her be pregnant yet!" Glad to see it was just a popular topic...

[MoonFace]

On 12/23/2016 at 6:46 PM, Carm_88 said:

 

Or I have a better idea, a woman can wear what she likes, what she feels good in, and men can stop being pigs. 

Good grief!   Just stick the woman in a burka and be done with it! 

[buggers]

7 minutes ago, Bugaboo said:

I saw this topic was hot and got nervous! I freaked out thinking "oh no, please don't let her be pregnant yet!" Glad to see it was just a popular topic...

Lol. No, we're all just speculating and talking about the same things over and over again because we've so little new information on Jinge and Jeremy. For the sake of our snarking, please Jinge, get an instagram already! 

[elliha]

It is true that Jeremy sort of went secular and came back to religion and then turned very conservative, even fundamentalist. This is very common among people who make this journey and he is likely to stay that way for a considerable time but do you know what is also common? That people who go from secular to conservative will once again move towards secular. It doesn't happen to everyone but it does happen quite often. I have seen it with a Muslim girl I know for example. She went even more conservative than her parents after a "wild" period and even wore the niqab. Now she is in a regular veil like her mom and much less conservative than them but still Muslim. She is one example, I have seen this happen quite a lot. Even if Jeremy is even more fundie than his parents now, things can come to change. Jinger might not like it but if it happens it will be very very interesting...

[JermajestyDuggar]

I see no sign of any Duggar leaving the cult as of right now. But things are pretty good right now. They've all got plenty of food and a place to live. They all have a relatively small amount of children. The test will be later on. When they don't have a show and they each have a large amount of mouths to feed. And the older girls will remember how shitty life was before the tv show. And magically, god will start spacing their babies 2-3 years apart 

[MoonFace]

I'm surprised that Jeremy's parents didn't take him aside and ask him if he was sure he wanted to be part of that crazy dog and pony Duggar show.    As in , "Listen, Son.   That man is bat shit crazy and we don't know yet if it is an inherited trait or if he got thumped on the head with a Bible a few too many times."   

Or even quietly say, "That is inappropriate."    

 

[SweetFellowshipper]

3 hours ago, buggers said:

I really can't remember when, but didn't Michelle say at one point that her taking birth control led to a miscarriage later on and that's why they don't agree with birth control (besides the god's plan thing)? I think that comment maybe snowballed into people saying the duggars said that birth control is akin to murder.

I don't think it's really snowballed. Those are Quiverfull teachings. Michelle directly says the pill causes abortions and so her baby was killed by the pill. 

One of JB's quotes on birth control being an abortion pill is in here. They believe the pill allows you to get pregnant but can then cause an abortion. It's not just the implantation issue, they really think the woman can be pregnant and later miscarry (an "involuntary abortion") due to the pill.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1531930/jim-bob-duggar-causes-controversy-by-blaming-birth-control-for-michelles-miscarriage/

This is also a good resource though a little long. It goes over Quiverfull members' feelings on various forms of birth control (among other things). They view IUDs and the pill as abortifacients tantamount to murder, and make the Holocaust references not just to abortions but to IUD use as well. Condoms and NFP are also on that spectrum though not quite as bad. Condoms in particular (more than NFP) are considered deeply sinful and directly against Scripture because using them is "destroying seed" which is holy and life-giving. 80% of the Quiverfull respondents say that any NFP is sinful too. So it seems methods are on a spectrum with all sinful, from NFP at the least harmful end to condoms and spermicide in the middle to IUDs, the pill and abortion as equivalent at the other end. 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://scholarship.claremont.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1010%26context%3Dlux&ved=0ahUKEwi4rY-Bgp3RAhUX_WMKHYvICzcQFghAMAg&usg=AFQjCNGgPUj5yY59DRvPHHDMtrxpRR4cbA&sig2=skvWVwzPMO1JjlkYVz93Lg

[Bad Wolf]

So the pill caused Caleb's miscarriage, but Jubilee's was God's will? Not snarking on the miscarriages, but on their thinking.

[Gillyweed]

4 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

So the pill caused Caleb's miscarriage, but Jubilee's was God's will? Not snarking on the miscarriages, but on their thinking.

Didn't Anna have a miscarriage as well?

[RosyDaisy]

Yes, she did. It was between Mack and Mike.

[Analytica49]

On 2016-12-24 at 2:19 PM, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

[snip]

Boob still has what 6 or 7 kids to put in braces how many of them still need wisdom teeth out I know from VERY recent experience that is costs around $1800 to have wisdom teeth surgically removed, and braces can rage anywhere from $3600 to $5500 a mouth You are talking over $60k in just braces for all the kids, and these fools don't have any insurance.  How much did Jillymuffins c/section cost? Jessa's blood transfusion. Those 2 events there probably cost close to what they made from TLC that year.  While he may have money it isn't going to last long with all those kids. 

I really wish this were true--because I hate seeing Jim-Boob be so (apparently) successful financially.

It spreads the dangerous message to a lot of people that all you have to do is become a fundamentalist patriarch with a gajillian children and you will live a life of wealth and ease, hardly having to work at all.

For that reason, I'd like Jim-Boob and his various sons and sons-in-law (since they're the only ones who, even theoretically, might engage in paid work) to face financial failure. The success they broadcast to the world is just too misleading to people who are easily enamored with this "lifestyle".

However, I suspect ol' Jim-Boob is canny enough to have made a bunch of good investments--at the very least in property, and perhaps other kinds. I don't expect him to run out of money, frankly.

[GotCaughtDancing]

16 minutes ago, Analytica49 said:

I really wish this were true--because I hate seeing Jim-Boob be so (apparently) successful financially.

It spreads the dangerous message to a lot of people that all you have to do is become a fundamentalist patriarch with a gajillian children and you will live a life of wealth and ease, hardly having to work at all.

For that reason, I'd like Jim-Boob and his various sons and sons-in-law (since they're the only ones who, even theoretically, might engage in paid work) to face financial failure. The success they broadcast to the world is just too misleading to people who are easily enamored with this "lifestyle".

However, I suspect ol' Jim-Boob is canny enough to have made a bunch of good investments--at the very least in property, and perhaps other kinds. I don't expect him to run out of money, frankly.

Also each year their little blessings bring them money at tax time.  At one point back in the 00's they made enough money back for each child they were making more than the median yearly salary. Not talking out of my ass either, my mom is a CPA and for kicks figured it out.

[GotCaughtDancing]

1 hour ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://scholarship.claremont.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1010%26context%3Dlux&ved=0ahUKEwi4rY-Bgp3RAhUX_WMKHYvICzcQFghAMAg&usg=AFQjCNGgPUj5yY59DRvPHHDMtrxpRR4cbA&sig2=skvWVwzPMO1JjlkYVz93Lg

The title of this piece made snicker: 'Quiverfull: Conservative Christian Women and Empowerment in the Home'.

I really find it interesting that they find NFP wrong, since one it doesn't waste their precious seed. I am guessing it is because it denies the headship his right of sex any time he wants it, might be the underlying real reason.

I think these people spread such a strange message regarding sex. They seem to be so obsessed with it, dry humping in public, yet at the same time damning with it until marriage. No touching, kissing, self love, sexing..until marriage. They don't seem to talk t their kids about sex and they don't provide literature about it. What a mixed signal.

I wonder how these girls feel once they are married. These men all seem like teen  horndogs and I can only imagine how much fun that must be for the girls. I am assuming here, but I doubt her pleasure is looked into. I also wonder what must go through their minds if the man they are married to is really just awful or ruff or wham bam man and because of this they don't like it. Who would they talk to? Would they just stuff it down and keep sweet and act like it is the most wonderful thing?

 

[Analytica49]

5 hours ago, Kittikatz said:

[snip]

Jeremy choose to pursue an unworldly QF woman when he could have had someone who doesn't have the emotional maturity of a twelve year old and zero real world experience. It's good that Jeremy has some more liberal family members, but so do Derrick, Anna and Kathy Bates, and they are still immersed kool-aid. I'm optimistic about Jinger maybe wearing sleeveless dresses, it's a nice baby step sign. It's great that Jinger is being taken to cultural events, but I seem to recall Jill and Jessa both going to Broadway plays, and it doesn't seem to have done them any good. It's nice to see that Jeremy was getting up JBoob's nose a bit, and that he and Jinger had different courtship practices, but Jeremy has, to my knowledge at least, never said or done anything substantive that would lead us to think that he doesn't toe the QF party line. Hell, this whole thing seems so deliberate, I'm half wondering if Jeremy's using Jinger as a springboard to some sort of fame, hoping to be a reality star, or big time TV preacher, or maybe planning to fill the 'void' left by Gothard, cause let's face it, Pecanthief and Brandon K aren't exactly charismatic preachers. 

It's just too early to tell what's going on here. With the lack of social media, Jeremy and Jinger are going to be especially hard to get any sort of read on. Which is an interesting strategy that makes me wonder what Jeremy is up to, but by keeping Jinger (officially) away from social media, he may be keeping his options open to go any number of different ways in the future. 

It will be interesting to see where they are in five or ten years, but right now we have little indication that they are anything different from any of the other Duggar couples.

 

I'm responding to the part I've bolded. @Kittikatz, I think this comment is very astute.

Pretty though Jinger is, meek (Jeremy's term) and "godly" (Jim-Boob's term) though she may be, it really makes sense to ask WHY Jeremy sought her out and married her. The romantic story that he just was attracted to her maidenly graces does not add up.

Jeremy is likely a very ambitious man--at least in some sense of "ambitious." He didn't get to be a superstar soccer player. So being a preacher might be the means to fame of another kind: the building of a religious empire. He will get the benefits of being admired and respected by his parishioners, and maybe, if he's charismatic enough, he can grow the church and draw in more dupes believers.

The Duggars' fame, their connection to TLC, their high visibility on social media will all feed in to this plan.

Heck, all of this doesn't even have to be completely conscious in Jeremy's own mind; he may just feel himself "called" in this direction, and Jinger Duggar is a wonderful helpmeet to assist him to regain the renown and respect he thinks he's entitled to.

[aurora_boo]

Hey, Jeremy (I'm pretty sure he/you will read here - who could ignore a forum dedicated to their wife?)

Jeremy,

Your religion is your own business, between you and your wife. Your method of birth control (or not) is between you and your wife. However, as someone with a real education, and with *real* experience of the *real* world, it is your duty to help Jinger experience and understand all the stuff her parents have neglected.

She's an intelligent woman - show her the world. Don't keep her a sheltered child. You two have the opportunity to discover an amazing life together. Please, let her flower - and not be one of many. 

Honour your wife by letting her actually have a personality and be her own person.

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, Analytica49 said:

I'm responding to the part I've bolded. @Kittikatz, I think this comment is very astute.

Pretty though Jinger is, meek (Jeremy's term) and "godly" (Jim-Boob's term) though she may be, it really makes sense to ask WHY Jeremy sought her out and married her. The romantic story that he just was attracted to her maidenly graces does not add up.

Jeremy is likely a very ambitious man--at least in some sense of "ambitious." He didn't get to be a superstar soccer player. So being a preacher might be the means to fame of another kind: the building of a religious empire. He will get the benefits of being admired and respected by his parishioners, and maybe, if he's charismatic enough, he can grow the church and draw in more dupes believers.

The Duggars' fame, their connection to TLC, their high visibility on social media will all feed in to this plan.

Heck, all of this doesn't even have to be completely conscious in Jeremy's own mind; he may just feel himself "called" in this direction, and Jinger Duggar is a wonderful helpmeet to assist him to regain the renown and respect he thinks he's entitled to.

This is what I've always kind of assumed. Since getting married, Jinger has started dressing much better. Her wedding was by far the classiest Duggar wedding to date. Jeremy seems to care a lot about his image. I think it's all a plan to become a big deal preacher with a big church and a perfect beautiful big family. 

[GotCaughtDancing]

I know everyone keeps hoping Jeremy will be her ticket to experience the real world and bloom as a human, but given her past that is doubtful. She may relax a little, but as far as changing very little will happen.

Think about all of the traveling the Duggars have done in their own country and elsewhere. These turds have more passports stamps than a normal person, yet it hasn't broadened any of their views. They are so caught up in their bubble and avoiding anything they don't agree with none of their travel experiences take, ie new people, culture, food, language, history, etc., It all falls flat on them. It is most noticeable on Jessa, just watch the way she was very defensive in her body language during her honeymoon.

Yes, somethings will change and she will experience new things, but I don't see her becoming a worldly woman. Jeremy didn't want a worldly woman. He sought out a meek, submissive, and in her own words, a follower to add to his bigger picture of preacher and perfect preachers wife.

[jqlgoblue]

Speaking from some recent personal experience with an ex it is very hard for someone to stray very far from parental behavior, even if they feel it was unfair or even traumatic This is especially, anyone that has been emotionally stunted or shut down due to shame and/or trauma. I'd put Jinger in that bucket WITH a bunch of koolaid and say that if we haven't seen a glimmer by now we won't. It's not to say none of the kids have the capacity... but I'm not betting on her specifically.

[elliha]

If I look at the good of the family as a whole I really don't want the older Bates and Duggar kids to stray too much. I want them to be able make some changes adjustments in their life but not so many that their parents decide to cut them off. If they do things differently than their parents but are still welcome home they could be an important inspiration to the younger ones. Say every sibling change two things compared to their parents and they happen to be different things. If the 5 oldest do this then there will be 10 changes already acceptable within the family available when sibling 6 marries. He/she could then choose all of them and then add 2-3 of their own and the parents would have much more trouble saying that now they moved too far if they accepted the changes in the other siblings before them. That is kind of what I hope for, a spectrum within the family that does not demand that they make a full break with the family because having to break with your family is often awful even if they have horrible views, people tend to still want to keep a bond.

[Vex]

The thing is, Jeremy can say whatever he likes about pants and wine being fine but he's only paying lip service because he did not want those things in a wife. There is zero chance they're going to practice any form of birth control because one of the main Gothard beliefs is that even natural family planning and abstinence is a massive sin. I see so many people suggest Jeremy might not be into a massive family because he only has three siblings. To that I say: no chance. So what if his parents only had three kids? Maybe they had fertility issues they haven't shared. Maybe their views on birth control were different back in their child rearing days. Michelle was a cheerleader as a kid, doesn't mean any of her daughters were. Jeremy chose a girl from a cult who says any form of birth control - even just abstaining - is a terrible sin. There is no way Jinger would have married him if they had a different view on this extremely crucial point of doctrine. Whether you like it or not, everything we've seen suggests Jinger is going the same way as Jessa and Jill, barring fertility issues.

Sure, she might have some more exposure to liberal viewpoints through Jeremy but that doesn't amount to a hill of beans unless she takes it on board herself, and there is nothing to suggest she might.

 

I'm getting married in March and I'm the first person my fiance has ever dated. I have plenty of experience, but I'm his first everything. It does make me a bit nervous, honestly, but we're such a great fit for each other that it's never been an issue.

[elliha]

31 minutes ago, Vex said:

The thing is, Jeremy can say whatever he likes about pants and wine being fine but he's only paying lip service because he did not want those things in a wife. There is zero chance they're going to practice any form of birth control because one of the main Gothard beliefs is that even natural family planning and abstinence is a massive sin. I see so many people suggest Jeremy might not be into a massive family because he only has three siblings. To that I say: no chance. So what if his parents only had three kids? Maybe they had fertility issues they haven't shared. Maybe their views on birth control were different back in their child rearing days. Michelle was a cheerleader as a kid, doesn't mean any of her daughters were. Jeremy chose a girl from a cult who says any form of birth control - even just abstaining - is a terrible sin. There is no way Jinger would have married him if they had a different view on this extremely crucial point of doctrine. Whether you like it or not, everything we've seen suggests Jinger is going the same way as Jessa and Jill, barring fertility issues.

Sure, she might have some more exposure to liberal viewpoints through Jeremy but that doesn't amount to a hill of beans unless she takes it on board herself, and there is nothing to suggest she might.

 

I'm getting married in March and I'm the first person my fiance has ever dated. I have plenty of experience, but I'm his first everything. It does make me a bit nervous, honestly, but we're such a great fit for each other that it's never been an issue.

This isn't really the way it works in reality though. Jeremy might not be into Gothard at all. It is not all or nothing, Gothard is part of the greater umbrella of very conservative to fundamentalist Christians but not the only version. They vary in how they view each other but many who are fundamentalist are not into Gothard but do not view those who are as bad Christians. He might not care if Jinger wears pants and she may or may not choose to do so and this wasn't anything he really cared about when he picked her, he likely did care that they were both conservative Christians and shared some important points like being anti abortion and partly counter-cultural but her being raised in a more Gothard oriented household might have had nothing to do with him picking her. It might even been a "fault" he overlooked. I don't get that he is a fan of her upbringing really and while he might choose differently from his parents he is on good terms with them and they are likely to be a bigger influence than JB.

[HarleyQuinn]

Meh, I'm still not convinced Jeremy is going to be "good" for Jinger in any way other than maybe taking her to a few places she's never been. He knows the Duggar brand and he basically applied for and was given a meek wife that he can mold any way he wants. My outlook isn't nearly as hopeful as some of the others.