Doug Philips is a tool (at best) and the now defunct Vision Forum - Part 3

[DomWackTroll]

Doug and Beall just did a blog post about him driving Billy Graham: 

https://beallsblog.com/new-blog-1/doug-phillips-billy-graham-and-the-presidential-inauguration

 

[Maxwell]

15 hours ago, DomWackTroll said:

Doug and Beall just did a blog post about him driving Billy Graham: 

https://beallsblog.com/new-blog-1/doug-phillips-billy-graham-and-the-presidential-inauguration

 

Just skimmed it, but I didn't see where he mentioned the famous story of how Dr. Graham told him how he made it a point to never be alone in a room with a woman other than his wife.  That made SUCH an impression on DPIAT the he made it a point to do the same.  Such a great standard to have.  Really helpful for a young couple too... especially when the young man has a job where he has to deal with office managers and others who are often women... then gets to come home and apologies to a suspicious wife who wonders why he's not being more Godly.  Not that I would know anything about that... I have a friend...

[Clementine]

15 hours ago, Maxwell said:

Just skimmed it, but I didn't see where he mentioned the famous story of how Dr. Graham told him how he made it a point to never be alone in a room with a woman other than his wife.  That made SUCH an impression on DPIAT the he made it a point to do the same.  Such a great standard to have.  Really helpful for a young couple too... especially when the young man has a job where he has to deal with office managers and others who are often women... then gets to come home and apologies to a suspicious wife who wonders why he's not being more Godly.  Not that I would know anything about that... I have a friend...

Except for the kid's nanny, I guess. What an ass he is.

[Marian the Librarian]

On 1/26/2017 at 5:48 PM, DomWackTroll said:

Doug and Beall just did a blog post about him driving Billy Graham: 

https://beallsblog.com/new-blog-1/doug-phillips-billy-graham-and-the-presidential-inauguration

 

And Jen Fishburne has commented on same, on her FB page:

Quote

 

Vision Forum advertising again, but this time it's more overt: Beall is simply introducing Doug Phillips, who tells of his time with Billy Graham. Not surprisingly, he uses this occasion to totally ignore President Trump and put all the focus on himself and Billy Graham. 

Doug Phillips learned early in life how to network. It's too bad he wasted all that talent on another woman and destroyed his potential.

 

 

[Howl]

Jen's a YUUUUUGE Trump leg humper.   She seems to be fatally attracted to the most repellent people and causes. 

[DomWackTroll]

8 minutes ago, Marian the Librarian said:

And Jen Fishburne has commented on same, on her FB page:

 

So, I guess Lourdes has gone from sexual assault victim to "another woman" in Jen's estimation, now that Jen is defending the predator in chief? She just disgusts me. 

[Palimpsest]

Jen really is a disgusting piece of work.  She's also always had a knife stuck in Lourdes's back.

[DomWackTroll]

Not really worth starting a new thread over, so I’ll post it here because this was a hardcore VF family. Nathaniel Bluedorn is gay and out.

https://www.facebook.com/nbluedorn

His parents wrote the book “Teaching the Trivium,” which is used widely by Dominionist families in their homeschooling, and they run the Trivium Pursuit website.

http://www.triviumpursuit.com/bluedorn/

The Bluedorns seem to have accepted the situation and socialize with Nathaniel and his boyfriend.

 

 

The Bluedorns’ politics are still nutty, but maybe being Libertarian helped a *little* with the gay thing? (Maybe?) It’s weird to go on Nathaniel’s Facebook page and see him still communicating with people like Caleb Hayden, Nathan Daher, and the very, very disappointed Niednagel brothers. 

[Howl]

This is the way families should love and accept!  Nathaniel B's FB is fun.  

 

18 hours ago, DomWackTroll said:

and the very, very disappointed Niednagel brothers. 

I don't follow the Niednagels or even know who they are (other than your references to them), but this made me laugh out loud at a very early hour!  

ETA: Back from perusing various Niednagels on FB.  Bleech. 

[MamaJunebug]

19 hours ago, DomWackTroll said:

Not really worth starting a new thread over, so I’ll post it here because this was a hardcore VF family. Nathaniel Bluedorn is gay and out.

https://www.facebook.com/nbluedorn

His parents wrote the book “Teaching the Trivium,” which is used widely by Dominionist families in their homeschooling, and they run the Trivium Pursuit website.

http://www.triviumpursuit.com/bluedorn/

The Bluedorns seem to have accepted the situation and socialize with Nathaniel and his boyfriend.

 

 

The Bluedorns’ politics are still nutty, but maybe being Libertarian helped a *little* with the gay thing? (Maybe?) It’s weird to go on Nathaniel’s Facebook page and see him still communicating with people like Caleb Hayden, Nathan Daher, and the very, very disappointed Niednagel brothers. 

I tried to find Jussy and Jordy's comments but couldn't. Can you help? Or do you just know? I can get behind the idea of just knowing. :-)

[MamaJunebug]

Nothing to see here, folks. Go back to work. (Ted Baxter)

[DomWackTroll]

1 hour ago, MamaJunebug said:

I tried to find Jussy and Jordy's comments but couldn't. Can you help?

Jeremy Niednagel: “Why have you made your sexual preference define who you are, Nathaniel? Is that who we are? Or what we do?... You don't sound like yourself, these days, brother. That's not an insult. It's an observation."

 

There are plenty more. 

 

[Howl]

1 hour ago, DomWackTroll said:

Jeremy Niednagel: “Why have you made your sexual preference define who you are, Nathaniel?"

Do these gender manic people have some type of anti-irony gene?  

Passive-aggressive subtext:  It's not just me, Nathaniel. God is sooooo disappointed in your sexual preference.    

OK, @DomWackTroll.  I got the Niednagles now. 

 

 

[refugee]

2 hours ago, DomWackTroll said:

Why have you made your sexual preference define who you are, Nathaniel? Is that who we are? Or what we do?

Frankly, coming from a VF type (I'm assuming), the answer is yes.

[nickelodeon]

VF dudes go to conferences about Biblical Masculinity and manly nature walks, buy a thousand books with titles like "Family Man, Family Leader", and love being asked to explain complementarianism to people. But gay people are the ones defining themselves by their sexual preferences. Riiiiiight.

[smittykins]

1 hour ago, refugee said:

Frankly, coming from a VF type (I'm assuming), the answer is yes.

Because being gay is totally about the buttsex. 

(And I do realize that not all gay men do that.)

[hoipolloi]

14 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

VF dudes go to conferences about Biblical Masculinity and manly nature walks, buy a thousand books with titles like "Family Man, Family Leader", and love being asked to explain complementarianism to people. But gay people are the ones defining themselves by their sexual preferences. Riiiiiight.

Not to mention the Bay-Bee Conference -- who could forget the amazing Thank You, Michelle video?

[nickelodeon]

54 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Not to mention the Bay-Bee Conference -- who could forget the amazing Thank You, Michelle video?

Yeah, until these guys can refrain for five minutes from talking/preaching/organizing conferences about the intricacies of their own heterosexuality, they cannot point fingers.

(Har har at "we must ALL be---uh, ALL WOMEN must be--Ladies Against Feminism" though.)

[SoybeanQueen]

It sure would be nice if the VF crowd would quit shoving their sexual preference in our faces 24/7. Also, I don't think Jesus would agree that modesty includes talking about how many times you bang your spouse to try to have more kids. Gross.

[Howl]

 

YouTube thought I might like this after watching the the Baby Conference video:

 

 

 

[MamaJunebug]

8 hours ago, DomWackTroll said:

Jeremy Niednagel: “Why have you made your sexual preference define who you are, Nathaniel? Is that who we are? Or what we do?... You don't sound like yourself, these days, brother. That's not an insult. It's an observation."

 

There are plenty more. 

 

Thank you, my darlin'.

[Khendra]

Hello.  Some of you may recognize my name from the Niednagels' FB walls.  I have finally cut ties with all of the Niednagels after many years.  You may have seen some strong-worded posts from me on their social media accounts before I officially cut those ties yesterday and today, having given them many warnings and chances in the last few years on how imbalanced they had become in their theology and their approach to their Brain Types system.  They are now all deleted and blocked, except for Jordan, whom I need to block again when the 48 hour window concludes.

Awhile back, a year or two ago, you had a thread on me, calling me "The stalker-y KM."  I found this thread even though it had just my initials.  There were some misunderstandings there as to why I posted often on the Niednagels' walls, along with what the causes of my anger and frustration were, as well as confusion as to why I acted "socially inappropriate" (I have Asperger Syndrome, and many view my communication style as lacking tact, and lacking adeptness at reading "social cues"; I actually do seek to balance tact and try to figure out "social cues," but it rarely seems to meet people's liking or expectations, I've discovered).

Anyway, I was never affiliated with the Reformed church, as was also misconstrued in the thread on me; I go to a Calvary Chapel.  I actually learned about the Niednagels through their aforementioned Brain Type system, which I first heard about in the late nineties on a TV basketball special for the Phoenix Suns.  I then started reading their articles regularly circa 2001, and I started writing on Jordan's blog in 2006 or 2007.  I came into contact with Jeremy on FB around 2010 or 2011.  By then, I had learned a lot about Brain Types, was perhaps their biggest supporter, and started becoming more and more familiar with their theology and lifestyle as well.

Things were pretty smooth until around 2012 when I noticed some disturbing trends on their articles and in the content of Jordan's posts: namely, the Brain Doctor's insistence that he and ISTJs were the only Brain Types allegedly capable of analyzing truth and reality in their proper contexts, and Jordan's theology, which many of you have noted is extreme to say the least.  The Brain Doctor's statement about ISTJs is a rather grandiose claim to make.  Following that was repeated trashing of the E__P Brain Types and their supposed inability to be as moral as the I__Js, especially ISFJ and ISTJ.  The Brain Type articles were especially critical of the ENTP type, which they believe makes up approximately 50% of the populace.  Jordan has continued in his father's footsteps with the latest Brady article, which was the last straw for me -- yet another long-winded treatise that takes shots at ENTPs for being supposedly unable to analyze reality in proper context.

I'm not so much skeptical of their Brain Type motor skill or type percentage claims as I am critical of their hubris in thinking that some types can more properly discern the truth than others.  This is completely inconsistent with the Judeo-Christian world view, and it's also inconsistent with the types that the Brain Doctor gives to several key Bible figures.  I mean, if the E__P types are so inept at "analyzing truth and reality in their proper contexts," (especially with language) then why does Jon Niednagel (the Brain Doctor) type David in the Bible as ENFP, Solomon as ENTP, Peter as ESTP, etc.?  He claims to be a staunch supporter of Biblical Christianity, yet if you follow his logic to the letter, then David, Solomon, and Peter can't even "analyze truth and reality in their proper contexts" with language, because they didn't possess the right or optimal Brain Types for those matters!  And yet they penned significant Bible books.  Goodness!  Gets rather blasphemous and cultic, doesn't it?  Niednagel's claims and the Bible's cannot both be true and reconciled. Either JN is grossly over-stating his case about types and truth and reality, or we can't rely on the books penned by those and other E__P authors as being real and true (or JN has mistyped those authors, which he can never admit to doing; he's actually literally changed several BTs of famous people over the years, including Yogi Berra from ISFP to ENTP, Vlade Divac from INFP to ENTP, Jimmy Stewart from ENFJ to ENTP -- notice the trend of everyone becoming ENTP -- but he refuses to address why he made these changes; typical of cult figures to dodge and refuse to address errors!).

And then there's Jordan's theology, again.  I and others who closely associated with the Niednagels always found Jeremy preferable and more rational, fair, and less extreme in judgment than Jordan and his father.  Jordan actually stopped responding to me in 2012 when I told him to stop writing to me after a particularly ridiculous exchange on his end.  I still addressed some of his posts on FB after that, because I had hopes he would become more reasonable -- but other than occasional insight here and there, he continued to be the more obtuse and the more fanatical of the two Niednagel bros.  He was always the vocal proponent of Doug and VF and some of the more bizarre theology of the ultra Reformed, and rather completely unwilling to try and look at things more moderately.  Jeremy by contrast was usually willing to try and be more balanced in perspective when these tough subjects were broached.

I still have some hope that Jeremy will finally distance himself completely from the mess (he's aware of his family's shortcomings), but in the meantime, I still have chosen to block him as well, because I can't take the risk anymore.  Too much baggage from the Brain Type Institute, his family and friends, etc.  It did get cultic, it did get blasphemous, it did get arrogant, it did get heretical, it did get to be too much.  I earnestly want people to see God in complete Biblical truth, and I don't think they are doing that anymore.  They understand much of the letter of the law, but seemingly not the Spirit, and that is my grave concern, and hence my reason for dissociating after so many unheeded rebukes.

That's all for now.  In the meantime, I cannot support a man (Jon Niednagel) who insists he's the one with all the truth and reality, and that others can't grasp it, or anyone who enables such views to stand (Jordan).  JN really does (at the very least) border on blasphemy, making himself out to be practically a god of such.  It's cultic and disturbing and must be called out and distanced from.  Whatever good has come from them and their Brain Types system is overshadowed by such a dark evil.

[Howl]

11 hours ago, Khendra said:

They understand much of the letter of the law, but seemingly not the Spirit,

The essence of the problem with these types of people -- they live from the neck up and totally forget about heart.  This is much broader than religion only.  Thanks for posting. 

[Khendra]

Exactly.  That is why father Niednagel and younger son Jordan are preoccupied and obsessed with saying over and over again that the world is full of generic FCIR/ENTP types who are pre-programmed from birth to supposedly not be able to analyze logical reality with language.  And yet he and Jordan are completely oblivious to how that comes across, while all their other family and friends simply dodge and ignore it so as not to deal with the implications.

Jordan's eldest son is an FCIR/ENTP.  I wonder how insecure he will turn out after getting inculcated via that method of looking at himself and the majority of others.  I shudder to consider it.  They thought I was that type, and oh how that damaged my faith.  Now whenever I study God's Word, I think to myself, "I can't understand it because I might be FCIR/ENTP, and that type cannot understand logical reality with language"

Great legacy, Jon Niednagel.

Jesus: I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.  No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Jon Niednagel: I understand all the ways and truth about life.  No one can understand God except through my ability to analyze brains and logical reality with language.

Whether he realizes it or not, JN DOES think he is Jesus Christ, by all the logical ramifications of what he writes. 

And Jordan worships him.  Not the Father, like he likes to claim, but his own father.  And Jordan believes he must do the bidding of his father.

They are idolaters, plain and simple -- JN of himself, and Jordan of his father.  It's no wonder Jordan bought so heavily into VF; human beings are the intermediaries between God and man in that cult, particularly the men.  That is why they call it patriarchy.  Women are not saved through Jesus Christ, but through their fathers and husbands.

It was never about Christ or the Spirit for these people, but about laws, letters, and the letters of people, who are all reduced to ENTP, ENFP, ISTJ, etc.  Not spirits or souls, but letters.

That's all people are to them.  Not spirits but letters.  And thus that's all the Bible is to them.  Not the Spirit, but the letter.

It's the same way the religious leaders of Jesus' day looked at it.

They are on their way to hell and don't even know it.

[MamaJunebug]

Khendra,

Welcome to FJ. 

Reading your first post prompted me to search on Jon N & brain typing, and this was 4th in the Google results, right after Wikipedia: A skeptic looks at brain typing

I have not held Jordan in high esteem since he - IMO - put fathers into a position of ultimate authority when he strongly criticized a young couple's elopement as father-dishonoring. Reading the "skepdic" analysis of father  Niednagel's method of making a living put pops right there next to his son in my estimation.

I don't mean to turn this into a rag on them, but I have wondered for years, and maybe you can tell us: Does Jon actually still make a great living on brain typing? Enough that  Jordan -- and possibly others -- support his (their)  family entirely by working for Jon's outfit?

My heart sank - and this is not a criticism of you - when I read your second post, where you wondered how insecure Jordan's first son might turn out because of the "brain typing letters" his family see in him. 

The world already labels us way too much, we certainly don't need another system to do so. And those of us who are Christians, absolutely, when we consider how to live and believe and identify ourselves, should be looking to the words about The Word (Jesus).

Not to some even more vile version of predestination. 

One more question: from your vantage point, how far do you see the brain typing idea influencing the world around it? (From where I sit, it seems to be confined to the Niednagel family & extended family [except maybe Jeremy]. I hope that's accurate, but I think I can take the truth as you see it!) Only if you feel comfortable answering, of course. 

Thank you for posting here!