Bates Family Part 13: Like Lipstick on a Pig

[THERetroGamerNY]

You're good with me... Hope is good. I totally get that... I hope all of IBLP is burned to ashes. lol

But this shit gets entrenched in your brain crazy deep..... I still get nagging fears like "but what if my parents were right...?"

Ugh.

[DaisyD]

1 hour ago, 19 cats and counting said:

Yes they are in a cult.  We all know this.  But how necessary is it to remind people this when you are discussing bridal fashion, cooking, babies, etc?  

It seems to me that it is extremely necessary as long as shit like the post below keeps being posted.

1 hour ago, Jana814 said:

Saw tonight's episode. I thought it was great sweet how all the kids wanted to be a part of the Annivarsary dinner. 

I'm happy for Nathan he seems like a nice guy. But I'm not sure this Ashley girl is going to be happy in backwoods of Tennessee after being so close to a big city like New York. 

Do you really think that those kids weren't coerced into that whole thing so there'd be something to film? Not to mention how fucked up it is that they decorated their own parent's marital bed for their anniversary. 

[iweartanktops]

18 minutes ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

You're good with me... Hope is good. I totally get that... I hope all of IBLP is burned to ashes. lol

But this shit gets entrenched in your brain crazy deep..... I still get nagging fears like "but what if my parents were right...?"

Ugh.

I get the same fears. It fucking sucks! 

[THERetroGamerNY]

The respect for your parents, and elders in general, in these circles, can go waaay off course.

"Mom and dad are soooo great!" Gets slowly turned into them being nearly infallable... "She birthed all us dozens of kids, so she is just SO Godly, right??!!"

And dad must be perfect, because look how he supports mom and us...

So if corporal punishment is employed, and these glorified parents beat a kid... I actually found myself thanking my parents for beating me?!?! Because I knew I was a bad, sinful child - because my godly parents told me so...

So then you're celebrating their glorious, seriously-fruitful marriage... And you might as well decorate their ever-so-holy bed, right? Because that's where all the love and babies are made... And that is what you should be thankful for.

Yeah. That's not fucked up at all...

[Mecca]

20 minutes ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

You're good with me... Hope is good. I totally get that... I hope all of IBLP is burned to ashes. lol

But this shit gets entrenched in your brain crazy deep..... I still get nagging fears like "but what if my parents were right...?"

Ugh.

I don't know if helps, but I think we all go through that thought process one time or the other.  It is totally normal to think back on the "what ifs." Just remember, that is what they want you to do when you stray from the flock. They control you with fear and try to plant doubt in your mind. I know it may be easier said than done, but do not allow anyone to control you with their fear based BS. If someone has to scare you into believing in a deity, then it is not healthy to be around it and it's abusive. 

[THERetroGamerNY]

I know, Mecca. Thanks. It's just...... Something......

I guess it's like cigarettes maybe? Even after you quit, smokers still get that craving? Best comparison I can think of.

I quit my fear-based religious past... But it still lurks in the back of my mind.

[colors_outside15]

40 minutes ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

You're good with me... Hope is good. I totally get that... I hope all of IBLP is burned to ashes. lol

But this shit gets entrenched in your brain crazy deep..... I still get nagging fears like "but what if my parents were right...?"

Ugh.

Thanks, @THERetroGamerNY. And, I know what you mean. I wake up literally drenched head to toe in a cold sweats because of nightmares that they found out about something I did (or something I THOUGHT!), so the buddy who slept with me is murdered while I'm forced to watch and then it's me. I wake up needing to change my clothes and put down two or three towels so the wetness doesn't seep through. I only have one pair of sheets (which is more than enough!), but I'm too tired to do laundry two or three times a night!

During the day, sometimes all it takes is one thing and all the sudden the strength of ptsd causes a panic attack so severe I can no longer physically stand and have to cancel everything planned for the day.

And those are like two tiny, generalized examples that clearly show tons of weakness in me, so yeah, if I can do it ... so can they, and I hope for the third generation (the izzys and bradleys) that the kidults do some amount of critical thinking, as I'd like them and their children to have at least semi-healthy lives. I can't stand to think of more and more and more children being harmed. I don't want anyone to have to endure anything similar to what any of us have experienced. So, I hold out hope. And yes, I fully agree with you that all cults and their thinking patterns should be burned beyond any unrecognizable state. I'd say to the bottom of the ocean, but I've come to like oceans

[Mecca]

16 minutes ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

I know, Mecca. Thanks. It's just...... Something......

I guess it's like cigarettes maybe? Even after you quit, smokers still get that craving? Best comparison I can think of.

I quit my fear-based religious past... But it still lurks in the back of my mind.

I get it. I really do. Therapy and learning to set boundaries helped me. Now I am all about the fuck offs when anyone comes at me with that mess. I admit it did not happen over night, but I am finally at a place where I won't allow fear or the threat of it to control me. I won't live my life like that anymore. They took some of my life, but I will be damned if they take it all.

Hang in there. It gets better. 

[THERetroGamerNY]

@Mecca Thanks

[Mecca]

HELP ME! That anniversary picture is keeping me up tonight. The thought of Gil and Kelly soaking in a tub full of Calgon while eating Peanut M&Ms is flat out terrifying. 

[amendgitan]

1 hour ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

You're good with me... Hope is good. I totally get that... I hope all of IBLP is burned to ashes. lol

But this shit gets entrenched in your brain crazy deep..... I still get nagging fears like "but what if my parents were right...?"

Ugh.

My spouse has what she called religious PTSD from her upbringing via her fundie parents. She seriously has typical PTSD symptoms when she has to spend extended time with them, especially with the people in her family who she knows will proselytize or whatever. She describes her childhood religious experience as "religious abuse." 

One time she was visiting her grandmother and a crazy aunt was babbling in tongues "praying" over my sister-in-law. My father-in-law then grabbed my spouse and demanded that she stand there as her aunt babbled over her, touching her head and all that.

The reaction my spouse had didnt make sense to me at first. Sick, nausea, sweaty and shocky feeling. She panicked and then felt sort of shocky. After, she had a feeling of violation that lasted for days. 

Seemed crazy to me. But it's because of all the shit she's been through. All the horrible messages and frightening stuff. 

Being a lesbian doesn't help. She's a brilliant intellectual, publishing her dissertation about gender, sexuality and religion. She's actually a rock star academically and is highly regarded. And yet, like some of you, she has had those scary feelings now and then: "What if they're right?" 

But that feeling has faded quite a bit over the years and doesn't happen as much. Her overall fear hasn't left though and likely never will. She has paranoia that they will kidnap her and put her in a reeducation camp or something. And she has a lot of dread and guilt about family gatherings. 

We have "safety plans" and have to rehearse how she will react to various things those nutters may do to or around her. 

She kind, whip smart, independent, very, very cool, beautiful, intuitive, wonderful. Yet when around her family she suddenly has no voice. And she's the best and smartest by far of all of them.  

As an outsider looking in it's been hard to totally understand and upsetting to see.

Because I actually like her family and think they're nice people. Just completely nuts. But what they did to her as a result of their religious beliefs really fucked her up. 

My heart goes out to everyone who escapes but is still bound mentally in some way by the years of indoctrination and abuse. 

[amendgitan]

4 hours ago, ElegantMajesticPearls said:

This show is hard to get through even just to snark watch. I don't think I can make it to the end. 

Interesting how Lawson seems so adamant against relationships. Especially the relationships hinder careers tidbit. Guess the Jinger/Lawson speculation is a no go

It's weird because marriage is literally the only way these guys can have sex unless somehow they can sneak off to find a prostitute but I doubt many of them do. They live in a small town and probably wouldn't have the first idea how to go about anything like that. 

I kind of think he doth protesteth too much. He maybe hasn't encountered another fundie that makes him excited so he knows he has no potential outlet.

So he pretends he doesn't want to be "tied down".  And I'm sure he doesn't. But be definitely wants the sex that goes along with it. 

This culture is so destructive. The guy should be able to explore relationships and have a ton of sex before he has to think about marriage. It sucks. 

[kjmackin]

Someone mentioned earlier about court documents in relation the Gothard case could someone please link them.

[GoddessOfVictory]

I can clearly see women's shaving cream in that anniversary photo. Please pass the brain bleach.

[Fundie Bunny]

2 hours ago, Mecca said:

HELP ME! That anniversary picture is keeping me up tonight. The thought of Gil and Kelly soaking in a tub full of Calgon while eating Peanut M&Ms is flat out terrifying. 

Isn't that laundry soap? Is it another brand I haven't heard of? Weirdest gift basket ever

[samurai_sarah]

1 minute ago, Fundie Bunny said:

Isn't that laundry soap? Is it another brand I haven't heard of? Weirdest gift basket ever

It's a water-softener you add to the detergent to prevent a build-up of lime-scale. Sorry, I'm being nit-picky because even hearing the name mentioned makes me sing that stupid jingle from the ads on an endless loop. Whoever came up with that jingle deserves to step on a particularly small Lego.

[caszandra]

41 minutes ago, samurai_sarah said:

It's a water-softener you add to the detergent to prevent a build-up of lime-scale. Sorry, I'm being nit-picky because even hearing the name mentioned makes me sing that stupid jingle from the ads on an endless loop. Whoever came up with that jingle deserves to step on a particularly small Lego.

Just to annoy you even more - Washing machines live longer with calgon!

Yep I get the stupid jingle in my head every time I see the name as well.

[Imagine20]

Calgon is also a brand of bubble bath. 

Thanks to all the posters that escaped from this cult and have posted about their experiences in and leaving it. It's very eye opening and insightful for an outsider like me. 

[samurai_sarah]

34 minutes ago, caszandra said:

Just to annoy you even more - Washing machines live longer with calgon!

Yep I get the stupid jingle in my head every time I see the name as well.

So many conflicting emotions! I love you for getting it, I hate you for doing that to me, I love you for also getting the stupid jingle in your head...

[Fundie Bunny]

Oh god, you had also the annoying jingle?  Thankfully it has dissapeared of tv here.

[samurai_sarah]

2 minutes ago, Fundie Bunny said:

Oh god, you had also the annoying jingle?  Thankfully it has dissapeared of tv here.

It will NEVER disappear from your mind!

[JillyO]

I am so sorry for all of you who had to endure religious abuse growing up. Gentle hugs to all who would like them. I appreciate you all sharing your stories with us, so thank you for that. You are so very strong!

[formergothardite]

7 hours ago, sunshine said:

I have read briefly of the going ons with Gothard thing. If Gil is found out to be guilty as sin, then let the cards fall where they may. I look at like this, let the courts decide on whether he is innocent or guilty. 

So the letter where he tried to manipulate an abuse victim into meeting in private with her abuser means nothing to you? None of the actual teachings of IBLP that Gil is still supporting and trying to sell bother you? Throw up any HUGE red flags that Gil might be a bad guy? 

 

[formergothardite]

7 hours ago, colors_outside15 said:

My two cents (not that it's worth anything) is that Alyssa has taken small steps away from fundie life. Do I think she's hella conservative and I wouldn't be able to stand her in real life?

I do think she has moved away from some of her parents beliefs. And I really doubt any of the Bates/Duggars are going to end up believing just like their parents. But she is still a fundie from what we can tell. And, as I pointed out earlier, she is still actively participating in creating this false reality where her family and their beliefs are good and wholesome. She is helping make evil look good. 

 

7 hours ago, crazysnark said:

Maybe this is because you have NO IDEA what it is like to grow up in such an environment and the strength it takes to deviate only a little from what you were raised in. 

Kind of do. When I went from being fundie, to being fundie, I was still fundie.  And I have been around people leaving ATI beliefs long enough to know that lots of folks drop the long skirts and gazillion kids but still keep really, really awful beliefs. Not all transition away from them and she hasn't shown any signs that she has. Baby steps to dress nicer isn't always baby steps to have nicer beliefs. 

[Curious]

16 hours ago, Mecca said:

Bachelors in Bible Studies in Business

I understand all these words, but not in the order they are presented here

I keep reading it and my brain is like NO.  Bachelors in Bible Studies...ok   Bachelors in Business....ok

Mashing the 2 together gets you...what exactly?   You are able to start/run a business that sells religious stuff?

I just can't make any sense of this.