Bates Family Part 13: Like Lipstick on a Pig

[JillyO]

10 minutes ago, Curious said:

I understand all these words, but not in the order they are presented here

I keep reading it and my brain is like NO.  Bachelors in Bible Studies...ok   Bachelors in Business....ok

Mashing the 2 together gets you...what exactly?   You are able to start/run a business that sells religious stuff?

I just can't make any sense of this.

No kidding. At first I thought it was a typo and @Mecca meant to write "Bachelors in Bible Studies and Business," like a double major I guess. But no. Gotta remember these people are completely, bat-shit crazy, so I guess this is par for the course. Bible studies in business... the fuck does that even mean?!

[Arete]

I just finished catching up with this thread. @VelociRapture, all I have to say is sistah, you are the bomb diggity!

[Mecca]

23 minutes ago, Curious said:

I understand all these words, but not in the order they are presented here

I keep reading it and my brain is like NO.  Bachelors in Bible Studies...ok   Bachelors in Business....ok

Mashing the 2 together gets you...what exactly?   You are able to start/run a business that sells religious stuff?

I just can't make any sense of this.

I know, right? It is such a weird mix of words. And I even forgot to throw in the word Applications in that mix. There are a few courses of business sprinkled in with a whole lot of "Yay, Jesus!" learning. From what I gather, it is about learning to run a small business with Christian principles, but they also like to sell the belief to students that one would be able to pick up employment elsewhere based simply on obtaining a bachelors. Nope. Does not happen that way. Most end up working within the Crown and fundie church circuit. Same with the education programs. Worthless. Sad really that these kids are sold on an idea that really never works out to their benefit. Crown takes the money with no real return on the investment. What I do not get is why the technical programs they offer requires a student to attend bible courses. You can get a diploma for HVAC along with a Christian Life certificate. What the hell is that? 

3 hours ago, Fundie Bunny said:

Isn't that laundry soap? Is it another brand I haven't heard of? Weirdest gift basket ever

No. In the states it is a bubble bath product.

I am still trying to figure out why it looks like shaving cream was also in that picture. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

2 hours ago, caszandra said:

Just to annoy you even more - Washing machines live longer with calgon!

Yep I get the stupid jingle in my head every time I see the name as well.

La lavatrice vive di più con Caaaaaalfoort.

Same thing, equally annoying, only in Italian. It's stickier than a bubble gum on the hair.

[Jana814]

7 hours ago, daisyd681 said:

It seems to me that it is extremely necessary as long as shit like the post below keeps being posted.

Do you really think that those kids weren't coerced into that whole thing so there'd be something to film? Not to mention how fucked up it is that they decorated their own parent's marital bed for their anniversary. 

I'm sure they were coerced. 

[JillyO]

16 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

La lavatrice vive di più con Caaaaaalfoort.

Same thing, equally annoying, only in Italian. It's stickier than a bubble gum on the hair.

I'm loving this. In German it's "Waschmaschinen leben länger mit Calgoooon." Now I will have the jingle stuck in my head for the rest of they day. Curse all of you!

[Fundie Bunny]

I didn't remember the lyrics in spanish, so i've ended up on you tube. And i've endedup watching it in portuguese. Any way, in spanish in something like "nanananana tu lavadora, con calgon" 

[VelociRapture]

50 minutes ago, Arete said:

I just finished catching up with this thread. @VelociRapture, all I have to say is sistah, you are the bomb diggity!

Thank you lovely lady! Hubby just left to go spend time with his dirty mistress - Tax Season - so I may be able to research the episode from last night and write something up.

Fingers crossed Lawson is featured prominently - he writes the jokes for me! 

*Bolded should be rewatch.

[Thorns]

Even the theme song to BuB is insidious. It has lodged in my brain, and wont.go.away. Been humming all day long....

[Palimpsest]

7 hours ago, kjmackin said:

Someone mentioned earlier about court documents in relation the Gothard case could someone please link them.

You can find the relevant links in this thread, which I really think should be required reading here.

 Warning: the details of the lawsuit are very distressing.

Recovering Grace, Spiritual Sounding Board, and Homeschoolers Anonymous all have useful information on the lawsuit.  HA keeps the links to the court papers updated as things develop.

 

 

[HereticHick]

7 hours ago, GoddessOfVictory said:

I can clearly see women's shaving cream in that anniversary photo. Please pass the brain bleach.

Me too-- I think its Skintimate brand.

So very very disturbing.

[DaisyD]

4 hours ago, formergothardite said:

So the letter where he tried to manipulate an abuse victim into meeting in private with her abuser means nothing to you? None of the actual teachings of IBLP that Gil is still supporting and trying to sell bother you? Throw up any HUGE red flags that Gil might be a bad guy? 

 

Thank you! Whether or not he's found "responsible" in a court of law, there's plenty of proof that he's done awful things and doesn't deserve the fawning, attention, and excusing that he's getting. Josh wasn't found guilty of anything, or even tried for that matter. He still molested little children. 

2 hours ago, Jana814 said:

I'm sure they were coerced. 

Then why did you say it was cute? How is coercing children for money cute?

[SassyPants]

13 hours ago, daisyd681 said:

I'm pretty stunned coming in here and seeing the Bates love. I've been keeping up on the GotHard lawsuit thread and can NOT believe that there is any minimizing of Gil's part in that mess on this site. 

@VelociRapture you're awesome! 

I have never watched the Bateses show. Is Gothard an active part of the show, or is it edited out like in the Duggars show?

[crazysnark]

11 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

 Um, actually many of us who are super critical of the Alyssa Squeeing DID actually grow up in that environment. Two people posting a lot in the last 5 or 6 pages are women brought up in ATI/IBLP.

See, I look at it exactly the opposite.When the Alyssa Squeeing starts, and the list of Alyssa's "baby steps" & "victories"  starts, I just see a bunch of people who don't know  much at all about ATI/IBLP or moving away from fundamentalism.  Oh yeah, and since Kelly & Gil know the Websters quite well from ATI/IBLP, I am pretty damn sure they knew the dress code for the Webster clan before Alyssa married in and knew John as headship would have a different standard.

Yeah, keep reaching. Or better yet, go back a few pages read the good information and thoughtful posts on  this topic by ATI survivors.

 

I'm not stupid nor ignorant. I HAVE read the last few pages and know very well that people in ATI wear pants. It's not just about pants tho, obviously.  I have yet to see Alyssa "keep sweet" since getting married. In fact, she calls people out when they call her immodest, vain, or too thin. I have seen how uncomfortable she is around her family. They annoy her and she isn't very shy about it. That being said, when people say Alyssa is making baby steps, we aren't just looking at her clothing. Maybe if you "read more then a few pages back" you would know this.  Keep reaching hun

 

[DaisyD]

11 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I have never watched the Bateses show. Is Gothard an active part of the show, or is it edited out like in the Duggars show?

Gothard is not on the show. Gil is on the board of directors, and is complicit in the the cover up. He is fully entrenched in all of it, but they gloss over it the way the Duggars glossed over the molestation. 

[Palimpsest]

14 minutes ago, crazysnark said:

I'm not stupid nor ignorant. I HAVE read the last few pages and know very well that people in ATI wear pants. It's not just about pants tho, obviously.  I have yet to see Alyssa "keep sweet" since getting married. In fact, she calls people out when they call her immodest, vain, or too thin. I have seen how uncomfortable she is around her family. They annoy her and she isn't very shy about it. That being said, when people say Alyssa is making baby steps, we aren't just looking at her clothing. Maybe if you "read more then a few pages back" you would know this.  Keep reaching hun

 

You seem to be trying to prove that you are both stupid and ignorant.  And very rude.

I've read this whole thread and you (and others) are apparently drawing your "clear" conclusions from watching an edited, semi-scripted TV show, which I repeat is little more than an infomercial for IBLP beliefs and not reality.  Or possibly you are leaping to conclusions from looking at instagram, and what people post there may be carefully crafted to fit a desired image. 

It's really not proof of anything, except perhaps your gullibility.  

[DaisyD]

3 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

You seem to be trying to prove that you are both stupid and ignorant.  And very rude.

I've read this whole thread and you (and others) are apparently drawing your "clear" conclusions from watching an edited, semi-scripted TV show, which I repeat is little more than an infomercial for IBLP beliefs and not reality.  Or possibly you are leaping to conclusions from looking at instagram, and what people post there may be carefully crafted to fit a desired image. 

It's really not proof of anything, except perhaps your gullibility.  

This. All of this!

[crazysnark]

5 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

You seem to be trying to prove that you are both stupid and ignorant.  And very rude.

I've read this whole thread and you (and others) are apparently drawing your "clear" conclusions from watching an edited, semi-scripted TV show, which I repeat is little more than an infomercial for IBLP beliefs and not reality.  Or possibly your leaping to conclusions from looking at instagram, and what people post there may be carefully crafted to fit a desired image. 

It's really not proof of anything, except perhaps your gullibility.  

I'm only as rude as someone is to me. I don't have Uptv so I don't watch the carefully scripted show. I do see her instagram comments though in which she stands up for herself. I don't buy into the sweet Erin and Chad story like a lot of people here. Yes they seem sweet but they have not deviated at all from the beliefs in which they were raised, Alyssa has, which is why I am willing to cheer for her. So no, I am not gullible, I have opinions and optimistic views on Alyssa, which are clearly not welcome here.

[THERetroGamerNY]

9 hours ago, amendgitan said:

My spouse has what she called religious PTSD from her upbringing via her fundie parents. She seriously has typical PTSD symptoms when she has to spend extended time with them, especially with the people in her family who she knows will proselytize or whatever. She describes her childhood religious experience as "religious abuse." 

One time she was visiting her grandmother and a crazy aunt was babbling in tongues "praying" over my sister-in-law. My father-in-law then grabbed my spouse and demanded that she stand there as her aunt babbled over her, touching her head and all that.

The reaction my spouse had didnt make sense to me at first. Sick, nausea, sweaty and shocky feeling. She panicked and then felt sort of shocky. After, she had a feeling of violation that lasted for days. 

Seemed crazy to me. But it's because of all the shit she's been through. All the horrible messages and frightening stuff. 

It's been quite a few years for me since I left it all, but there are still a couple of PTSD things I have that just never seem to go away. If I drop a glass plate, whether it breaks or not, my heart races and I get severe anxiety. My mom beat me half to death for a broken plate of her mothers ...

Another trigger is, stupidly, the smell of manure (because of our farm in Nebraska). Recently we were out in the more country-like areas where we live, picking up some nice produce, and I got a strong whiff of that distinct odor, and then saw a pile of Chick tracts laying there next to the cash register. I felt my heart beat faster, my whole body went cold.

What a stupid fear, you know? The smell of manure, and old-school religious tracts. But totally legit. Had to step outside and calm down.

[formergothardite]

17 minutes ago, crazysnark said:

I do see her instagram comments though in which she stands up for herself.

But standing up against people being mean to her on the internet really isn't a huge sign that she is less fundie. In IBLP there is a big thing about spiritual gifts. People with the spiritual gift of prophecy were known to be blunt, in your face, sassy and would stand up for themselves. From what I have seen, I wouldn't be surprised that she was branded a prophet and so this attitude that she is going to stand up to trolls on the internet is something that could easily in IBLP be seen as just her being a prophet. 
 

My spiritual gift test wasn't conclusive and I was told I probably had the gift of mercy. Since mercies were supposed to like to pray, I'm not sure how accurate that was. 

[crazysnark]

I wouldn't think women would be important enough to be prophets. haha

[formergothardite]

1 minute ago, crazysnark said:

I wouldn't think women would be important enough to be prophets. haha

It isn't a prophet in the sense that the word is often used. Gothard had his own definitions of words. But yes, lots of women were said to have the gift of prophecy. People who had that gift could get away with a whole lot more because it was expected that they would be blunt, in your face, and would stand up for themselves(and their friends/family). 

[crazysnark]

2 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

It isn't a prophet in the sense that the word is often used. Gothard had his own definitions of words. But yes, lots of women were said to have the gift of prophecy. People who had that gift could get away with a whole lot more because it was expected that they would be blunt, in your face, and would stand up for themselves(and their friends/family). 

That's very interesting. I just remember seeing a huge switch when she got married. Even before John she talked differently, with a more cheerful tone, and then when she got married she got the Jessa resting bitch face and the " I'm so over this tone. of voice"

[formergothardite]

Just now, crazysnark said:

That's very interesting. I just remember seeing a huge switch when she got married. Even before John she talked differently, with a more cheerful tone, and then when she got married she got the Jessa resting bitch face and the " I'm so over this tone. of voice"

I don't doubt that she was happy to escape her childhood home of constantly cooking and raising children, and being away had shown her how much her parents took advantage of her, but I am not sure that standing up to trolls on the internet is a sign that she is leaving her core, very fundie beliefs or even that her family was shocked that she stood up for herself. Kristina, who was and is extremely fundie, came here full of sass and stood up for herself. Doing that didn't show that she was less fundie, just that she had the personality to do that. 

Are there any signs that she is even taking baby steps away from being a fundie? I haven't seen any. Fundies stand up for themselves, dress in regular clothes and decide not to have 20 kids. Baby steps away from some of her parents super strict rules aren't necessarily baby steps away from being a fundie. 

[crazysnark]

14 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I don't doubt that she was happy to escape her childhood home of constantly cooking and raising children, and being away had shown her how much her parents took advantage of her, but I am not sure that standing up to trolls on the internet is a sign that she is leaving her core, very fundie beliefs or even that her family was shocked that she stood up for herself. Kristina, who was and is extremely fundie, came here full of sass and stood up for herself. Doing that didn't show that she was less fundie, just that she had the personality to do that. 

Are there any signs that she is even taking baby steps away from being a fundie? I haven't seen any. Fundies stand up for themselves, dress in regular clothes and decide not to have 20 kids. Baby steps away from some of her parents super strict rules aren't necessarily baby steps away from being a fundie. 

It was the first steps for me. Once I started questioning my parents rules I started questioning their religion. The rules and the religion seem to be linked. I am 23 and was 19/20 when I started to do the exact same things Alyssa did/does, which is why i have such hope for her.